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An Admiral Speaks: No Endgame Content.... At All (Spoiler Alert)

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  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    lunatec wrote: »
    I guess they were thinking that getting the low and mid range content done was more important than working on the high end...silly people.

    IT JUST WAS RELEASED ON TUESDAY, and on THURSDAY, you are whining????!?!?!!

    This is why i hate most gamers.

    It is sad to see games being released and people being ABLE to complete it within days.

    Anyone who is getting angry at the gamer, and not the developer is just cutting your own throat. These companies are out to maximizes their profits and lower their expenses (you know workloads). They are not in business any longer to make good games, just profitable ones. Bioware seems to be one of only two major companies who care about entertaining their customers. The rest are just money grubbing little children who think money, money, money.

    I have always loved the fact of what people can accomplish. What I hate is companies getting free passes, this games content is so barren is its ridiculous.

    That link the dev posted was so laughable I thought it was sarcasm, until I read how people thought it was a saving point.

    People think.... Alot of people are cruising through content that took years to make, how long do you think you will blow through that pitiful content upgrade.... a week.... days.

    Sadly EZ mode is destroying this game. ZERO challenge, ZERO hard choices, and an ever decreasing desire to play a great IPO. This game isn't dead but unless Cryptic puts heart into their product and less business mind it will fail.

    Better start living up to "For gamers, by gamers" attitude that makes games a success, and start taking off the suits you are wearing.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    /played was close to their estimates for max level

    Cryptics estimates in Beta were about 80 hours of content to max level. Given that it's thursday morning, the OP didn't sleep all that much since head start launched. And basically either played STO, ate, or Slept.

    Also, Cryptic has all but admitted there is no end game content in the game, they've never denied the accusation and even implied t hat most of the end game wasn't in place and was yet to come. So if you choose to power grind through all the content in less than a week, to get to an end game the devs have said doesn't exist and then come to the forums to complain it doesn't exist sounds a lot like going outside with out an umbrella when the forcast calls for rain,t hen complaining you got wet.

    No, there is no end game content. There have been some news posts about what Crytpic *intends to do* but then again, if you've read up on what Cryptic *intends* to do then see it's results (Genesis is a great/horrible example) you realize their intentions and their implementations don't really always match. So until its in, no one really knows how it will take shape.

    You played a game you bought for $50 for about 80 hours. In the grand scheme of PC entertainment, that's a pretty good dollar to hour ratio (I've paid more for games with less content, ahem, Call of Duty games).
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    No game has end game content at launch. Just the way it is. Blizzard's end game content was 5 man dungeons with no player cap. MC and BWL weren't in at start, neither was that troll place in stranglethorn whose name escapes me.

    EQ is about the only one I know of that had end game content at launch from memory, although many games I never played that long to even get to max. EQ had Vox, Nagafen and Cazic-Thule at launch, Innoruuk was added a few weeks later.

    I'm just happily grinding through Zenas and Sector Defends and I'll be capped out on Mk X gear in a few days.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    In AION, people hit the level cap after about 10 days, and complained about endgame, just like every other MMO. Keep in mind, AION is a grindfest where you need to kill, literally, 100's of thousands of mobs to hit max level.

    BUT! On the AION site you could see how many people were at each level. Those who filled MULTIPLE threads with whining represented less than 1% of the players, even several weeks into the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Badem wrote: »
    *whips out tricorder and scans*

    hmm I am detecting residual Sarcasm particles :p

    LMAO! Very clever, 10 points for you.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Guess you missed the part about being a sheep. The point is there is NO endgame at ALL. So even if I took, say, a month to level.. then what? Wait? Endgame content is a hard lesson many devs have learned and here we go again...
    Grats, now start a second character and enjoy another class while Cryptic finishes the game.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Aeolwind wrote: »
    No game has end game content at launch. Just the way it is. Blizzard's end game content was 5 man dungeons with no player cap. MC and BWL weren't in at start, neither was that troll place in stranglethorn whose name escapes me.

    Zul'Gurub ;)

    I have no further beef with this thread, as I know I won't reach the "endgame" content until well after the first 45 days. I'm not even a Lt Commander yet :rolleyes:
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Vestas wrote:
    Cryptics estimates in Beta were about 80 hours of content to max level. Given that it's thursday morning, the OP didn't sleep all that much since head start launched. And basically either played STO, ate, or Slept.

    It only takes about 70 hours to hit cap, 3 days 3 hours played since headstart and I hit admiral last night about 12 eastern & i played till almost 4am afterward.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yargnit wrote: »
    Just checked mine, 2 days 20 hours, and I've been RA5( aka Capped) for 12 of those probably. So 2 days 8 hours roughly to cap. (54 hours) You have to expect endgame content to be avalible at launch when endgame is reachable in under 2.5 days playtime.

    By the ~3 day mark I'm in close to full mk10 badge gear on my ship.

    No, by day 3 you SHOULD be damn close to exhaustion.

    Dude. 54 hours in 3 days.

    A nap. Take one. Think of the children.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Grats to the OP here. Seriously.

    Myself, I learned long ago about games. My first MMO was Asheron's Call. Getting max level in that game technically didnt happen.As I moved through many many MMO games, I saw a common thing.

    Game releases
    Week later people hit max rank and brag, complain, cry.
    Month later More content in released
    Rest of population hits cap
    Few months later I hit cap lol


    I started taking my time after DAoC. Right now my Main is Lt 8, and my alt that I duo with wife is Lt 6. It will be some time before I hit max rank. But im having fun the entire time. For the OP, hitting max rank in a few days was fun for him Im guessing. However, I can only assume the OP has not played very many MMO's, or he would not have complained about lack of content. If memory serves me WoW at release had Scholo and Strat as end game content.

    Another complaint to the OP, dont sweat the flames here, if you played any MMO's before you should have know that making a post like this would result in 1 thing. And your getting it. Grats on the attention!


    See everyone in end game in a few months.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I remember with Guild Wars, I reached the endgame a few months after release, and the only endgame at that point was to grind two dungeons (accessed from the same remote place) for loot to craft into purely cosmetic items. It wasn't for a while after that until they started adding new areas as endgame content (that had little point in and of themselves, if I recall correctly). So if Cryptic can put out new content by 45 days after release, I'll be happy. Sure, I would be happier if they had taken a couple more months to further develop the game, but that's just the way things go sometimes, and I have no idea about the executive-meddling stuff that could have made them release early. Remember, the devs are generally their own worst critics, but by the time they've fixed everything they want to and have everything they could possibly think of in the game, their funding has being long-since cut off, the license has being transferred elsewhere, and they're filing for bankruptcy.

    Guild Wars is free to play.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    how long has this game been out........3 days....im level 5. Endgame whats that?

    How do you get to level 45 in less then a week???
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    "I reached End Game in 3 Days and all I got was this lousy T-shirt, oh, and my heart exploded."
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Aeolwind wrote: »
    No game has end game content at launch. Just the way it is. Blizzard's end game content was 5 man dungeons with no player cap. MC and BWL weren't in at start, neither was that troll place in stranglethorn whose name escapes me.

    EQ is about the only one I know of that had end game content at launch from memory, although many games I never played that long to even get to max. EQ had Vox, Nagafen and Cazic-Thule at launch, Innoruuk was added a few weeks later.

    I'm just happily grinding through Zenas and Sector Defends and I'll be capped out on Mk X gear in a few days.

    You are wrong.

    Both Molten Core and Onyxia's Lair were in the game on launch date.

    See clickie:
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Onyxia's_Lair_(original)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    dont get fixed too much on the short time the hardcore players need to get to max lvl ( i consider myself as one of them too since i am capped)

    the common-mmo headstart player should be in the captain range by now, hitting admiral 1 till sunday most certainly.
    random "star trek fan"/casual players that may be new to the genre may need 2-3 weeks from now to cap.

    that said.... do you really think that in 2-3 weeks there will be enough endgame content to keep those common-mmo players satisfied and subscribing, those guys that are the backbone of every mmo ?

    i dont think so.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Yargnit wrote: »
    Just checked mine, 2 days 20 hours, and I've been RA5( aka Capped) for 12 of those probably. So 2 days 8 hours roughly to cap. (54 hours) You have to expect endgame content to be avalible at launch when endgame is reachable in under 2.5 days playtime..

    Wow, so we went from it taking 100 hours to make admiral plus another 100 or so to max out all skills to taking about 50 hours to max everything out and have nothing to do.

    I can only imagine that increasing the leveling speed (don’t need as many quests) and capping skill points (easier to balance) was the only way they could ship the game on time. I’m sure we will see tons of end game content in the paid expansion they are working on as we speak.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Haha. Saw this same thing happen in Fallen Earth.

    The leveling in that game was trivial at best, a goodly number of players hit top level within 4 weeks with most doing it in 2-3. But if you made one single post on the forum telling every other nub that was "reading all the mission text" or "Role-playing" that there wasn't much to do at end game you would get scolded with " BAAHHHH YOU RUSHED!!"

    That went on for about 3 months, and then basically everyone was at end game, and there was still nothing to do...
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Another lesson is don't underestimate your player base and put out enough content to last only a week.

    True. They could have made it 90 levels instead of 45, and for you it would have lasted 2 weeks instead of just 1 week. :p

    Just teasin' ya a bit. Grats on Admiral and all. Now go get some sleep or something. ;)
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Flintlocke wrote:
    Understood. It appears you were an exception to Cryptic's rules, so to speak. Seems that there is some decent endgame in the works, and of course it needs more people of similar level to make it work. I suspect that it will be revealed around the time that more high-level folks are approaching their level cap. Perhaps make that Klingon or work on another character in the meantime. Nothing can be done about your concerns at the moment - message received. We now all wait for Cryptic to unlock there first endgame content and we'll see what we see.

    dont hold your breathe... CoX has the same issues. Linear progression then nothing to do at 50. Their base doesnt care because most of the people just want to play dress up and create toon after toon. But if you like your toon there is nothing to do. Most of the content/zones they added are for lowbie toons which is stupid because peopel whiz hru those levels in a couple of hours.

    I just dont think Cryptic really gets MMO design.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Brac wrote:
    Wow, so we went from it taking 100 hours to make admiral plus another 100 or so to max out all skills to taking about 50 hours to max everything out and have nothing to do.

    I can only imagine that increasing the leveling speed (don’t need as many quests) and capping skill points (easier to balance) was the only way they could ship the game on time. I’m sure we will see tons of end game content in the paid expansion they are working on as we speak.

    NO.

    *THIS* guy did this.

    The majority will take weeks, months, or LONGER to hit end game because we do odd litle things like read the quests, stop and smell the roses, and don't have an I.V. of RedBull hooked up to our arm as we chain smoke at a badly discolored monitor to be the first to win the race that started in his mind.

    Seriously.

    Heart exploded. Just, BLAM. Shot cheetos f***ing EVERYWHERE.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    If you think there is no end game content for a Fed player imagine being a Klingon and having so little game content leading up end game and then having even less end game content than the Feds.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Vestas wrote:
    Cryptics estimates in Beta were about 80 hours of content to max level. Given that it's thursday morning, the OP didn't sleep all that much since head start launched. And basically either played STO, ate, or Slept.

    Also, Cryptic has all but admitted there is no end game content in the game, they've never denied the accusation and even implied t hat most of the end game wasn't in place and was yet to come. So if you choose to power grind through all the content in less than a week, to get to an end game the devs have said doesn't exist and then come to the forums to complain it doesn't exist sounds a lot like going outside with out an umbrella when the forcast calls for rain,t hen complaining you got wet.

    No, there is no end game content. There have been some news posts about what Crytpic *intends to do* but then again, if you've read up on what Cryptic *intends* to do then see it's results (Genesis is a great/horrible example) you realize their intentions and their implementations don't really always match. So until its in, no one really knows how it will take shape.

    You played a game you bought for $50 for about 80 hours. In the grand scheme of PC entertainment, that's a pretty good dollar to hour ratio (I've paid more for games with less content, ahem, Call of Duty games).

    80 hours when the game had some difficulty to it... now its more like 50 hours. It doesnt matter how someone got there. The point is there is nothing there. To release with NOTHING there is inexcusible.
    Aeolwind wrote: »
    No game has end game content at launch. Just the way it is. Blizzard's end game content was 5 man dungeons with no player cap. MC and BWL weren't in at start, neither was that troll place in stranglethorn whose name escapes me.

    EQ is about the only one I know of that had end game content at launch from memory, although many games I never played that long to even get to max. EQ had Vox, Nagafen and Cazic-Thule at launch, Innoruuk was added a few weeks later.

    I'm just happily grinding through Zenas and Sector Defends and I'll be capped out on Mk X gear in a few days.

    Thats a load of TRIBBLE. WoW atleast had some endgame. EQ had some endgame. EQ2 had a full endgame. DAOC had huge RVR. Lotro had atleast group instances with Helegrod shortly after and none of those games could even be hit for engame inside a week. It took atleast a month to level.
    Naevius wrote:
    In AION, people hit the level cap after about 10 days, and complained about endgame, just like every other MMO. Keep in mind, AION is a grindfest where you need to kill, literally, 100's of thousands of mobs to hit max level.

    BUT! On the AION site you could see how many people were at each level. Those who filled MULTIPLE threads with whining represented less than 1% of the players, even several weeks into the game.

    AION has decent PVP, dungeons and raids.

    ................................................................................

    All of you that are bashing on someone for "rushing" are sad. 54 hours of content maby about 9 or 10 hours a day but so what.... most games take atleast month to level. This game is shallow and easy and lacking content. You guys see past all of those things and bash someone for "rushing". Thats sad.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    ...just pow.

    Chunks of heart hanging from the ceiling lights, smeared on the wall...still twitching muscle flipping around on the enter key like an angry red snapper.

    "Dude, why did Bobby just type a;kdfaaaaaddakfla"??"
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    No, by day 3 you SHOULD be damn close to exhaustion.

    Dude. 54 hours in 3 days.

    A nap. Take one. Think of the children.

    Actually I thought I'd have more time in than that by now. we're nearing the 6 day mark in ~45 minutes now. Meaning I've basically averaged 12 hours a day. That's well shy of the 16/day I played during the last 5 days of beta once they removed the level cap.

    That's the other half of it, those of us who are at cap already are for the most part the same ones who leveled to cap in beta. Meaning the 'you skipped the entire game' comments really don't apply as we did the entire game a week earlier to make sure it was working for everyone come release. ;) I finished every story mission in the game minus two that I bug reported in beta, so yes I did skim though them this time around and simply focused on the ones that gave rewards i wanted this time around.

    As for the person who mentioned 'show off your ship for a few days,' yeah that's pretty much what I've been doing the last 6 hours. Standing in Earth Station or DS9 answering questions with my admiral title and pips on and responding to random 'Wow, how'd you get Admiral comments.' But the novelty will wear off soon, and I'd really hope Borg space is pushed tomorrow morning before the weekend.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    50 levels in less then a week.... and complains about lack of content....

    /yawn

    I believe WoW had Scholomance, Stratholme and Blackrock Spire (lower and upper) up at launch, as well as Molten Core and Onyxia's Lair... the last of which, most people hadn't even stepped into by the time they added Dire Maul and Black Wing Lair.. heck, I wasn't even level 60 by the time they added BWL...

    So... that makes cryptic's approach less than satisfying on two accounts:
    1) the time it takes to get to max level is too short.
    2) there's nothing to do when you get there.... yet.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Sangrilia wrote: »
    You are wrong.

    Both Molten Core and Onyxia's Lair were in the game on launch date.

    See clickie:
    http://www.wowwiki.com/Onyxia's_Lair_(original)

    Technically true but neither zone was complete. There was no loot and the zone would crash constantly until the first patch, which I think was a couple of weeks after release IIRC.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    zerosoul wrote: »
    dont get fixed too much on the short time the hardcore players need to get to max lvl ( i consider myself as one of them too since i am capped)

    the common-mmo headstart player should be in the captain range by now, hitting admiral 1 till sunday most certainly.
    random "star trek fan"/casual players that may be new to the genre may need 2-3 weeks from now to cap.

    that said.... do you really think that in 2-3 weeks there will be enough endgame content to keep those common-mmo players satisfied and subscribing, those guys that are the backbone of every mmo ?

    i dont think so.

    This says it all
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I reached Commander last night, and have been playing the game pretty much non stop when I have the time :P

    (Mind you I have a life, girlfriend, and a full time job.)

    So I've probably played for 25 hours or so since head start. In order to reach admiral you must have done shift work with someone else, played day and night since launch, and obviously have no life and are trying to subsitute that in a video game, when your reality comes crashing down you come to the message boards to start a thread about QQing.

    Yes this game is not complete, and requires alot of work... but to expect it to be up to par with games that have been out for years is rediculas.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    Why? Because I was looking forward to the release? And I suppose you fed some homeless puppies on your way home from delivering bread to the nunnery instead of logging on to STO right away? Please. It's called planning. Get over it.

    And no offense, but until people start standing up and saying that this is an unacceptable approach, it will be a common trend.

    Why?

    Because there is absolutely more to life than sitting at a computer all weekend long to see how quickly one can level a toon. It's hardly an accomplishment to be proud of, in fact it smacks of an acute self-centered way of living.

    I cannot even fathom tossing away that much of my time and energy on something that has as little (in the grand scheme of things) meaning as self-entertainment when there are important, lasting things to work on. Like repairs/remodeling/cleaning the house, planning a Superbowl Party, reading to my daughter, doing our tax returns, frolicking with my wife, visiting friends, building furniture and even chatting online with friends I have developed all over the world, thanks to the Internet.

    It takes some really weird priorities to plan out an entire weekend of sitting in front of a PC just to see if one could max out a toon on an MMO as fast as possible and then spend time complaining about the already well known facts about that MMO.

    But hey, my priorities aren't your priorities, you go ahead and keep it real.
  • Archived PostArchived Post Member Posts: 2,264,498 Arc User
    edited February 2010
    I reached Commander last night, and have been playing the game pretty much non stop when I have the time :P

    (Mind you I have a life, girlfriend, and a full time job.)

    So I've probably played for 25 hours or so since head start. In order to reach admiral you must have done shift work with someone else, played day and night since launch, and obviously have no life and are trying to subsitute that in a video game, when your reality comes crashing down you come to the message boards to start a thread about QQing.

    Yes this game is not complete, and requires alot of work... but to expect it to be up to par with games that have been out for years is rediculas.

    i dont think anybody expected it being on pair with WoW in its actual state.

    but does cryptic expect to keep a good sized playerbase without proper endgame content ? thats the question, nothing else. think ahead 2-3 weeks, you sitting in your admirals chair and questioning yourself what to do in the game...
    if you care about the game you may come to the message boards...
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