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Transported Warhead

colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 2,193 Arc User
I don't remember if this is what it's called, but it's something like that. This is an ability that the Mo'kai cruisers (and battleships, I think), just spam constantly. It needs to be looked at, it's fast becoming a problem.

Individually, the power isn't all THAT bad... usually. There are times they'll put it on me, the timer will count down and BOOM, I'm at 15% health... 85% damage done from one unblockable, unavoidable, uncleansable 'I win' power... Usually, it's "only" around 20% hull damage in one shot. The problem is that a) there's usually about 10-20 of these things being spammed on you every 2 seconds, and b) there's no way to avoid, cleanse or otherwise remedy the thing. Someone said Tactical Team would cleanse it, but I've never seen it happen. Part of that is that it takes so long for a power to activate that the TWO SECONDS you have to respond are already passed.

So... I have the following suggestion. The premise of the ability is that they are beaming a warhead directly into your ship, where it detonates (makes me wonder why you would bother with LAUNCHERS, actually). The main problem with this, conceptually, is that both THEIR shields and MINE would need to be DOWN for them to beam anything onto my ship. This isn't a likely situation they're going to want. So, I suggest they implement one of two possible changes.

First, change the power so it can only be used against a ship with a facing shield down, and so it shuts THEIR shields down for the duration.

Second (and this is my preference), change it so it uses ASSAULT SHUTTLES, like Boarding Parties. This allows them to bypass the shields in a more lore-friendly way, AND it provides a couple of defenses. First, you could shoot down the shuttles. Second, you might use tractors to repel or lock them down. Third, you would have a little warning before they board, allowing you to use Tac Team (or whichever ability cleanses the countdown) more reliably.

As it stands, the power is ridiculously overpowered, and contradicts everything we know about transporters and shields. A change is warranted.
Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

Comments

  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,371 Arc User
    The transport warhead actually IS canon, though it is from one of the iffier special-circumstances-required parts of VOY so it stretches the lore rather badly. In the episode, Voyager was able to transport the torpedo through the Borg tic-tac's shields since they already had the shield frequency somehow (I forget how they got it), similar to the way the Duras sisters bypassed ENT-D's shields in Generations.

    That would not happen very often in a normal battle, so the power is a bit iffy to say the least (though it is a fun one to use if the enemy ship remains intact long enough for it to arm, and as usual the player-accessible version does not seem to do as much damage as the NPC version).

    As for the cleanse, Tactical Team does indeed work (provided it spins up in time) but it seems to only clear the first bomb on the stack, not the ones from the other half dozen Seches hosing you down with the power. If it cleared all of them applied and not yet detonated and then gave a brief immunity from other bombs being planted, then it would be of some use in those Mokai scenarios.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,260 Arc User
    And those two special-circumstances-required issues wouldn't have been an issue at all if all the nations and powers of Star Trek would stop having a collective stupid and just set up transport inhibitors (which we KNOW exist) all over their ships that can be activated by tactical teams as soon as combat begins - then it won't MATTER if shields ever go down because transporter-based attacks will still be impossible.

    Like, I get the Federation - it took them centuries to put proper defenses around their core worlds - but the bloody BORG should know better.​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

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  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,548 Arc User
    edited August 2023
    There isn't anything wrong with transport warhead. Its actually still pretty weak. Its just your build. Not a put down just a lack of some game knowledge as its not a skill you run into a lot.
    1) Tac team removes Transport warhead debuffs. Tac team removes tactical debuffs for 5s and Transport warhead counts. If you see the counter pop up you hit tac team and it will be cleared. You don't need anything more then tac team 1... clear isn't buffed by higher levels.
    2) Use Brace for Impact, BFI is free its 15s of 166 kinetic dmg resist with a 60s cool down. If you are using something like Intelligence Attaché trait you can almost keep BFI up at all time. Even with out that trait its a good uptime save it for when your getting swarmed.
    3) Slot actual armor. The current thing seems to be to tell everyone to slot every +dmg console possible. However especially starting out when endeavor points are lower put at least one Resall console on. If you know your going to do Kinetic heavy content slot an actual Kinetic amour console.
    4) Category II resists. Most people know there are Cat 1 and Cat 2 forms of Dmg in the game. Most people don't know there are also Cat 1 and Cat 2 buffs for heals and resists. If your still having issues with NPC torps try slotting "Advanced Hull Reinforcement" the space rep trait granted from Dyson reputation. It is +10 BOUNS all resist (cat2) and +12.5% if you have T6 unlocked. [DMG aside bouns resist is also what makes the Dynamic Power Redistributor a great console... yes its 99% about the dmg but it is also one of the few sources of Cat 2 Resist when you click it]
    5) Defense Rating. A lot of players overlook defense mechanics... mostly because most NPCs just don't hit all that hard. Defense is calculated vs Accuracy. NPCs do not have high ACC numbers. So a modest amount of Defense will reduce NPC hit chance. More importantly it will reduce Critical high and Dmg numbers. NPC hits that do a lot of dmg tend to be critical hits. The first way to keep defense up is to never ever ever park. Do not stop your ship completely ever. Defense is granted from movement. If you park your defense drops to zero. If you need to slow down go ahead if you need to park instead hit reverse for a few seconds. (Even in reverse you retain most of your defense)
    Good sources of extra defense.
    - Evasive maneuvers. +25 defense for 8s. We all have it for free if you need to pop it while getting focused pop it.
    - Attack Pattern Omega - 18 defense at level 1 30 defense at level 3 for 15s.
    - Intelligence Team If you have a Intel seat you'll take less focus from the targeting stealth anyway but IT also gives you 30-50 defense rating.
    - Tactical Fleet - if your a tac people overlook the defense nature of Tac Fleet... it imparts 40 defense
    - Use a Competition reputation engine. This is one of the most popular engines in the game for the zoom when you use a skill. The zoom also gives you. +15 defense for 5s. I personally always use the heal version of this engine combined with a copy of Aux to Sif. I can use A2S about every 10s... which means I have that extra zoom and defense buff more then 50% of the time combined with a basic hazards 1 and engi team I slot anyway.
    6) Slot resistance imparting skills.
    - Auxiliary to Structural... procs the heal comp engine. Also imparts +19 all dmg resist at level 1 for 10s... and its cool down is 15s base with a 10s global. So with say the Boilmer effect you can pop this every 10s so always on resist + the heal.
    - Polarized Hull. Can be slotted at Ensign sci. 67.5% all dmg resist at level 1 for 15s. Also grants immunity to tractors.
    - Hazard Emitters. Can also be slotted at Ensign. 13.3% all dmg resist at level 1 for 15s... also applies a hot heal and hazard clear.
    - Auxiliary to Inertial Dampers This one shares a cool down with Aux to Struc. Not as popular as it was at one time... there is a matter anti matter doff that gives it 100% uptime and also grants +40 energy dmg resist. Level 1 gives you 27.5% kinetic resist... and damp also gives you basically perma immunity to disables. So if some of those transport warheads are disabling you they won't with damp on.
    7) Console - Universal - Hull Image Refractors - you can get this one from the exchange if you don't already have as its rewarded from the Infinity console box. The hull imager serves a double purpose. First and most important it has a passive which stores your heals when you are at 100% hull. It stores all heals you receive for 30s and it refreshes. It allows you to have up to the amount of your hull as temporary hull. It is also a great OH NOS button... the click will cloak you and if you let it run the full 20s it will heal you 100%. Before you start a harder TFO or any content I guess... pop it and let it run for 20s right before a TFO starts. This will give you 100% of your hull amount as temp hull. (You can also choose to click it between waves or enemies or something and only leave it on for 5 or 6 seconds to get some of the heal. Its a strong heal at 20s it will do 100% hull so if you let it run for 10s it will give you 50% hull ect... you can end the cloak effect at any time)

    Hope some of that helps you out if its new to you.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,285 Arc User
    I don't remember if this is what it's called, but it's something like that. This is an ability that the Mo'kai cruisers (and battleships, I think), just spam constantly. It needs to be looked at, it's fast becoming a problem.

    Individually, the power isn't all THAT bad... usually. There are times they'll put it on me, the timer will count down and BOOM, I'm at 15% health... 85% damage done from one unblockable, unavoidable, uncleansable 'I win' power... Usually, it's "only" around 20% hull damage in one shot. The problem is that a) there's usually about 10-20 of these things being spammed on you every 2 seconds, and b) there's no way to avoid, cleanse or otherwise remedy the thing. Someone said Tactical Team would cleanse it, but I've never seen it happen. Part of that is that it takes so long for a power to activate that the TWO SECONDS you have to respond are already passed.

    So... I have the following suggestion. The premise of the ability is that they are beaming a warhead directly into your ship, where it detonates (makes me wonder why you would bother with LAUNCHERS, actually). The main problem with this, conceptually, is that both THEIR shields and MINE would need to be DOWN for them to beam anything onto my ship. This isn't a likely situation they're going to want. So, I suggest they implement one of two possible changes.

    First, change the power so it can only be used against a ship with a facing shield down, and so it shuts THEIR shields down for the duration.

    Second (and this is my preference), change it so it uses ASSAULT SHUTTLES, like Boarding Parties. This allows them to bypass the shields in a more lore-friendly way, AND it provides a couple of defenses. First, you could shoot down the shuttles. Second, you might use tractors to repel or lock them down. Third, you would have a little warning before they board, allowing you to use Tac Team (or whichever ability cleanses the countdown) more reliably.

    As it stands, the power is ridiculously overpowered, and contradicts everything we know about transporters and shields. A change is warranted.

    It's not over-powered, it's physics....the torp, just ONE torp (even an 'inferior' nuclear war-head) would literally tear apart the ship from inside. It's also canon. watch 'Dark Frontier' of ST:VOY for the perfect demonstration. The Borg of that time were not using any type of shield, nor beaming suppression.

    Their shields do not have to be down at all, just as when they fire a torp, an small hole is opened up to allow a torp to pass through unhindered, and it's the same with transporters. The logic of 'we can't beam them through the shields' was always wrong and contradicted in canon as it was well known shields were not one continuous bubble, but numerous facings, so they only ever needed to drop a facing. The faulty logic was just a plot device to add 'peril' for the viewer to percieve.

    Use Reverse Shield Polarity and Hazard Emitters (the best heal, I don't care what anyone else says :lol:), and you'll fare alot better.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,285 Arc User
    Tac Team does not remove it. I've tried it MANY times, even when it activates in time, it STILL does not remove it. More, it's of limited use when as soon as you remove it another is applied, then another, then another, then another. Brace for Impact (and Polarize Hull, and so on) are useful to tank the effect, but they only last a moment, and it will not be useful against all the repeated applications, once these things are on cooldown. This is also the case when trying to heal the damage they do. There's only so much I can devote to healing and blocking this power before my ship becomes useless at anything else.

    The damage is not trivial, even for one strike. A single attack will do anywhere from 20% to 90% of my hull, regardless of equipment (it seems rather random, actually).

    As for the conceptual things...

    Torpedoes can be fired through the shields. Transporters CAN'T be used through the shields. This is established frequently in every Trek series. Yes, they can lower one facing, but they have to LOWER that facing. At present, this power is ignoring both the attacker AND the defender's shields... which is inappropriate.

    Again, my suggestion of these things being delivered by assault shuttles seems better to me, as it allows some other forms of defense, more time to implement them, and a more canon-friendly method of delivery.

    Shuttles can be launched without lowering the shields, and are able to pass through defensive shields, as established in several shows.

    Transporters CAN be used through shields as per a number of examples since ST:TWOK, in TNG, DS9 AND VOY. The rules around transporting through shields do vary between series also. The claim they can't is just a plot device for peril, and the torpedo example is a perfect example of why they can actual do it. If in doubt, use some search-fu, like I did.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,371 Arc User
    The usual rule for penetrating shields without brute force knocking them down is to sync with them. Dialog has established that if a torpedo can sync its shield (yes apparently they have them) and drive frequency to the shield in question they can pass through it.

    Those phase tricks are how they fire beams and torpedoes with shields up in the first place, they do not drop sections of shield to fire out of (they technobabbled about it now and then in just about all of the Berman era shows, and the whole plot of one episode of ENT was dependent upon Reed figuring out how to balance the phases of the warp bubble, the shields, and the phase cannons so they could fire at a ship that was chasing them at warp 5).

    Of course, that ignores how idiotic the idea that a 60-70 megaton yield device would actually need to detonate directly on the hull to do any significant damage is. For instance, in the real world the 50-something megaton Tsar Bomba test scorched the paint on observation planes over seventy miles away.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,548 Arc User
    edited August 2023
    Tac Team does not remove it. I've tried it MANY times, even when it activates in time, it STILL does not remove it. More, it's of limited use when as soon as you remove it another is applied, then another, then another, then another. Brace for Impact (and Polarize Hull, and so on) are useful to tank the effect, but they only last a moment, and it will not be useful against all the repeated applications, once these things are on cooldown. This is also the case when trying to heal the damage they do. There's only so much I can devote to healing and blocking this power before my ship becomes useless at anything else.

    The damage is not trivial, even for one strike. A single attack will do anywhere from 20% to 90% of my hull, regardless of equipment (it seems rather random, actually).

    As for the conceptual things...

    Torpedoes can be fired through the shields. Transporters CAN'T be used through the shields. This is established frequently in every Trek series. Yes, they can lower one facing, but they have to LOWER that facing. At present, this power is ignoring both the attacker AND the defender's shields... which is inappropriate.

    Again, my suggestion of these things being delivered by assault shuttles seems better to me, as it allows some other forms of defense, more time to implement them, and a more canon-friendly method of delivery.

    Shuttles can be launched without lowering the shields, and are able to pass through defensive shields, as established in several shows.

    Transport warhead isn't an issue. Its a canon skill... the NPCs that use it can be tanked.

    As for not wanting to devote any of your build to tanking a bit of dmg? ? I mean what are you on about. Build a balanced build and they won't be a problem. If you are really 100% glass cannon how are are these things staying alive long enough to be an issue. :)

    You don't need to dedicate a bunch of your build. BFI lasts for 15s with a 60s standard cool down. But you can reduce captain skill cool downs with multiple ship traits, and the every easy to slot Intelligence Attaché trait. With just IA trait assuming you have 40-50% crit hit chance on your ship you should be able to drop BFI to around 30s or so cool down. Meaning that skill alone which we get for free build wise can be up 50% of the time.

    To cover the rest of the time... Slot one ensign level sci heal or resist. Hazards 1 is a pretty standard skill for most people to slot, Polarized hull likewise can be slotted at Ensign. They both last for 15s. You can alternate those with BFI for 100% uptime on resist boosts. (or is your issue not having a good cool down system... skills like Hazards have a 30s global and you should be able to hit that with most cool down setups meaning it has a 50% uptime as well)

    Out of curiosity if you are willing... what ship are you running and what is your aprox setup? (as in Ship type/DEW or Shiptype/Exotic) Perhaps we could give you more specific advice as to how to up the defense a bit. The only annoyance I have ever noticed with those kling NPCs is their viral impulse... but that is just annoying, and I always seem to eat one as my omega ends. lol
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,812 Arc User
    I'm with the Col. there needs to be some sort of temporary immunity to the transport warheads. just like when you use a cunfuse ot sensor jam they target gets immunity.
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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,224 Arc User
    Of course, that ignores how idiotic the idea that a 60-70 megaton yield device would actually need to detonate directly on the hull to do any significant damage is. For instance, in the real world the 50-something megaton Tsar Bomba test scorched the paint on observation planes over seventy miles away.
    That can easily be explained by the inefficiencies of heat transfer in hard vacuum and Star Trek (even TNG era and beyond) being far stronger then people give them credit for.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,932 Arc User

    ..my Jem'hadar bug ship

    Would your ship be the original Tier 5 Jem'hadar Attack Ship from 2011 or the Tier 5 Jem'hadar Escort from 2018?
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,548 Arc User
    edited August 2023
    husanakx wrote: »
    Tac Team does not remove it. I've tried it MANY times, even when it activates in time, it STILL does not remove it. More, it's of limited use when as soon as you remove it another is applied, then another, then another, then another. Brace for Impact (and Polarize Hull, and so on) are useful to tank the effect, but they only last a moment, and it will not be useful against all the repeated applications, once these things are on cooldown. This is also the case when trying to heal the damage they do. There's only so much I can devote to healing and blocking this power before my ship becomes useless at anything else.

    The damage is not trivial, even for one strike. A single attack will do anywhere from 20% to 90% of my hull, regardless of equipment (it seems rather random, actually).

    As for the conceptual things...

    Torpedoes can be fired through the shields. Transporters CAN'T be used through the shields. This is established frequently in every Trek series. Yes, they can lower one facing, but they have to LOWER that facing. At present, this power is ignoring both the attacker AND the defender's shields... which is inappropriate.

    Again, my suggestion of these things being delivered by assault shuttles seems better to me, as it allows some other forms of defense, more time to implement them, and a more canon-friendly method of delivery.

    Shuttles can be launched without lowering the shields, and are able to pass through defensive shields, as established in several shows.

    Transport warhead isn't an issue. Its a canon skill... the NPCs that use it can be tanked.

    As for not wanting to devote any of your build to tanking a bit of dmg? ? I mean what are you on about. Build a balanced build and they won't be a problem. If you are really 100% glass cannon how are are these things staying alive long enough to be an issue. :)

    You don't need to dedicate a bunch of your build. BFI lasts for 15s with a 60s standard cool down. But you can reduce captain skill cool downs with multiple ship traits, and the every easy to slot Intelligence Attaché trait. With just IA trait assuming you have 40-50% crit hit chance on your ship you should be able to drop BFI to around 30s or so cool down. Meaning that skill alone which we get for free build wise can be up 50% of the time.

    To cover the rest of the time... Slot one ensign level sci heal or resist. Hazards 1 is a pretty standard skill for most people to slot, Polarized hull likewise can be slotted at Ensign. They both last for 15s. You can alternate those with BFI for 100% uptime on resist boosts. (or is your issue not having a good cool down system... skills like Hazards have a 30s global and you should be able to hit that with most cool down setups meaning it has a 50% uptime as well)

    Out of curiosity if you are willing... what ship are you running and what is your aprox setup? (as in Ship type/DEW or Shiptype/Exotic) Perhaps we could give you more specific advice as to how to up the defense a bit. The only annoyance I have ever noticed with those kling NPCs is their viral impulse... but that is just annoying, and I always seem to eat one as my omega ends. lol

    Tonight I took out my Jem'hadar bug ship into the Ruins of Doom patrol. She's got Neutronium armour. ONE Mo'kai cruiser hit him with the countdown (I happened to hit Tac Team JUST after the countdown started, and it DID NOT clear the effect). When it detonated, his hull dropped to 36%. One hit. There were FOUR cruisers spamming this on him, every 3 seconds or so. No way to clear it, absolutely no way to slot enough heals to tank it, since using Hazard Emitters and Engineering Team puts them on cooldown, meaning there's no way to heal the NEXT barrage of the thing...

    And all this with NO Damage done to my shields.

    There isn't supposed to be shield dmg its a shield by pass skill. (not being a jerk really, just ya that is the point of the skill) The point of Hazards isn't to spam it. It lasts for 15s. It has a 30s global (assuming your cooling down your skills with Boilmer, PO, skill points or other traits).

    Anyway I went and did Ruins of Doom, as I don't really run that one often. I agree the recent buffs to Transport have helped the NPCs in that one... it no longer needs arc so they do spam it more often then they used to. Having said that I ran on Elite and was able to tank them. It was sort of fun to face enemies that might blow me up honestly. Not to sound like a braggart or something. I agree with you for sure Transport warhead enemies are harder now then they where. I don't think that is a bad thing personally to be frank. They knocked me down to 40% early... and they forced me to hit evasive away and use my hull imager to heal about mid map. Good fun.

    Mo'Kai Sech Battle Cruiser deals 6404 (45138) Kinetic Damage to you with Transported Photon Warhead I
    Mo'Kai Sech Battle Cruiser deals 16888 (46782) Kinetic Damage to you with Transported Photon Warhead I
    Mo'Kai Sech Battle Cruiser deals 20446 (46232) Kinetic Damage to you with Transported Photon Warhead I

    I didn't do a full parse I probably should run a full parse on a run just to count the number of them that go off. It didn't really seem excessive to me though. I think the key to tanking them is to keep your defense up more then anything to make sure you are not eating any crits. For what its worth my defense stats on this run where 165 base defense at half throttle or more. (which I never went under) 180 defense 50% of the time when I used Aux to Sif 1.(due to comp engine proc) Base Kinetic resist 41.7% (52.9% with sif running which is always) Only other heal I was running was a Hazards 1, and BFI. I do use a hull imager console (and without it they would have for sure killed me at least once maybe twice if I didn't break off) I didn't use it to preload 100% temp hull but I did use it to fully heal half way through the map.

    After running one with them I would say speed min 50% throttle to keep defense up... aux to sif or damp ideally (either would serve the same purpose) to boost both defense and resist higher. A hull imager would also come in very handy, its a life saver and the over heal temp hull is a big buff if you know your going to take hull dmg. I also believe (and its no requirement) that with those guys its best to be single target dmg. I ran it on my surgical 3 plasma build. AOE builds would leave more of them alive longer to "Spam" the warheads on you. Picking them off one by one I found by the time their cool down came up for warhead I only seemed to get hit with a couple. I understand where your coming from though if you get hit with 3 or 4 20k hull hits that can cause a respawn.

    PS sorry about the tac team advice. I thought it did clear that one. My bad. Perhaps Intel team does? But its possible it doesn't have a proper clear. Perhaps a good ask of Cryptic isn't to nerf a skill that just got a minor buff... but perhaps instead to ensure Tac team and perhaps also Intel team both clear it. I personally prefer to have hard counters to skills with other skills.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,548 Arc User
    A total aside though but seeing the NPCs get a nice buff from the arc removal on this skill. It makes me want to go test that carrier ship trait that grants your pets transport warhead when you use intel skills.... hmmm. lol
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,548 Arc User
    edited August 2023
    husanakx wrote: »
    husanakx wrote: »
    Tac Team does not remove it. I've tried it MANY times, even when it activates in time, it STILL does not remove it. More, it's of limited use when as soon as you remove it another is applied, then another, then another, then another. Brace for Impact (and Polarize Hull, and so on) are useful to tank the effect, but they only last a moment, and it will not be useful against all the repeated applications, once these things are on cooldown. This is also the case when trying to heal the damage they do. There's only so much I can devote to healing and blocking this power before my ship becomes useless at anything else.

    The damage is not trivial, even for one strike. A single attack will do anywhere from 20% to 90% of my hull, regardless of equipment (it seems rather random, actually).

    As for the conceptual things...

    Torpedoes can be fired through the shields. Transporters CAN'T be used through the shields. This is established frequently in every Trek series. Yes, they can lower one facing, but they have to LOWER that facing. At present, this power is ignoring both the attacker AND the defender's shields... which is inappropriate.

    Again, my suggestion of these things being delivered by assault shuttles seems better to me, as it allows some other forms of defense, more time to implement them, and a more canon-friendly method of delivery.

    Shuttles can be launched without lowering the shields, and are able to pass through defensive shields, as established in several shows.

    Transport warhead isn't an issue. Its a canon skill... the NPCs that use it can be tanked.

    As for not wanting to devote any of your build to tanking a bit of dmg? ? I mean what are you on about. Build a balanced build and they won't be a problem. If you are really 100% glass cannon how are are these things staying alive long enough to be an issue. :)

    You don't need to dedicate a bunch of your build. BFI lasts for 15s with a 60s standard cool down. But you can reduce captain skill cool downs with multiple ship traits, and the every easy to slot Intelligence Attaché trait. With just IA trait assuming you have 40-50% crit hit chance on your ship you should be able to drop BFI to around 30s or so cool down. Meaning that skill alone which we get for free build wise can be up 50% of the time.

    To cover the rest of the time... Slot one ensign level sci heal or resist. Hazards 1 is a pretty standard skill for most people to slot, Polarized hull likewise can be slotted at Ensign. They both last for 15s. You can alternate those with BFI for 100% uptime on resist boosts. (or is your issue not having a good cool down system... skills like Hazards have a 30s global and you should be able to hit that with most cool down setups meaning it has a 50% uptime as well)

    Out of curiosity if you are willing... what ship are you running and what is your aprox setup? (as in Ship type/DEW or Shiptype/Exotic) Perhaps we could give you more specific advice as to how to up the defense a bit. The only annoyance I have ever noticed with those kling NPCs is their viral impulse... but that is just annoying, and I always seem to eat one as my omega ends. lol

    Tonight I took out my Jem'hadar bug ship into the Ruins of Doom patrol. She's got Neutronium armour. ONE Mo'kai cruiser hit him with the countdown (I happened to hit Tac Team JUST after the countdown started, and it DID NOT clear the effect). When it detonated, his hull dropped to 36%. One hit. There were FOUR cruisers spamming this on him, every 3 seconds or so. No way to clear it, absolutely no way to slot enough heals to tank it, since using Hazard Emitters and Engineering Team puts them on cooldown, meaning there's no way to heal the NEXT barrage of the thing...

    And all this with NO Damage done to my shields.

    There isn't supposed to be shield dmg its a shield by pass skill. (not being a jerk really, just ya that is the point of the skill) The point of Hazards isn't to spam it. It lasts for 15s. It has a 30s global (assuming your cooling down your skills with Boilmer, PO, skill points or other traits).

    Anyway I went and did Ruins of Doom, as I don't really run that one often. I agree the recent buffs to Transport have helped the NPCs in that one... it no longer needs arc so they do spam it more often then they used to. Having said that I ran on Elite and was able to tank them. It was sort of fun to face enemies that might blow me up honestly. Not to sound like a braggart or something. I agree with you for sure Transport warhead enemies are harder now then they where. I don't think that is a bad thing personally to be frank. They knocked me down to 40% early... and they forced me to hit evasive away and use my hull imager to heal about mid map. Good fun.

    Mo'Kai Sech Battle Cruiser deals 6404 (45138) Kinetic Damage to you with Transported Photon Warhead I
    Mo'Kai Sech Battle Cruiser deals 16888 (46782) Kinetic Damage to you with Transported Photon Warhead I
    Mo'Kai Sech Battle Cruiser deals 20446 (46232) Kinetic Damage to you with Transported Photon Warhead I

    I didn't do a full parse I probably should run a full parse on a run just to count the number of them that go off. It didn't really seem excessive to me though. I think the key to tanking them is to keep your defense up more then anything to make sure you are not eating any crits. For what its worth my defense stats on this run where 165 base defense at half throttle or more. (which I never went under) 180 defense 50% of the time when I used Aux to Sif 1.(due to comp engine proc) Base Kinetic resist 41.7% (52.9% with sif running which is always) Only other heal I was running was a Hazards 1, and BFI. I do use a hull imager console (and without it they would have for sure killed me at least once maybe twice if I didn't break off) I didn't use it to preload 100% temp hull but I did use it to fully heal half way through the map.

    After running one with them I would say speed min 50% throttle to keep defense up... aux to sif or damp ideally (either would serve the same purpose) to boost both defense and resist higher. A hull imager would also come in very handy, its a life saver and the over heal temp hull is a big buff if you know your going to take hull dmg. I also believe (and its no requirement) that with those guys its best to be single target dmg. I ran it on my surgical 3 plasma build. AOE builds would leave more of them alive longer to "Spam" the warheads on you. Picking them off one by one I found by the time their cool down came up for warhead I only seemed to get hit with a couple. I understand where your coming from though if you get hit with 3 or 4 20k hull hits that can cause a respawn.

    PS sorry about the tac team advice. I thought it did clear that one. My bad. Perhaps Intel team does? But its possible it doesn't have a proper clear. Perhaps a good ask of Cryptic isn't to nerf a skill that just got a minor buff... but perhaps instead to ensure Tac team and perhaps also Intel team both clear it. I personally prefer to have hard counters to skills with other skills.

    Ya, I know it's not supposed to do damage to the shields, but that's my point. It's an attack that using transporters to beam something to another ship, something that's not supposed to be possible when shields are intact.

    Moreover, it renders pointless the very existence of the shields if attacks that will utterly destroy the ship are going to completely ignore them. Why arm ships with weapons when tractor beams are unstoppable death rays and devastating torpedoes can be beamed into ships, all without the shields providing ANY defense?

    I just think it's unbalanced and contradicts established rules set out in the Star Trek universe.

    Its a TRIBBLE skill that has been in the game since October 2014. The canon behind it is from Voyager.
    It has never actually been a very powerful skill. Players would still rarely slot it over a spread or hy.

    It recently had its cool down dropped from 30s to 15s, and its firing arc removed. Both make sense canon wise as changes. If your going to beam the torp why should it have a firing arc... and if your going to beam a torp right form your torp stores it would be a lot faster then feeding them into tubes.

    The only issue here is yes it made these specific NPCs that actually use it more powerful. Seeing as these NPCs are only really seen in a couple patrols I don't think its a big deal myself. It makes those patrols a little harder which I fine as I see it. Its not any different from the NPCs that spam Subnukes, or the hearld NPCs that spam Ionic and EMP. Some NPCs need different strategies. These Mokai Klinks now require a bit of planning to best... or at least wise use of a couple heals, and perhaps knowing when to break off for a few seconds to not get swarmed. I can think of all sorts of tactics to deal with them... isn't more engaging game play what we want ?

    I do believe it should have a working counter though. Tac team / Intel Team or both should remove the debuff if you pop one of them before the torpedo explodes. I assumed Tac Team did.... I was wrong on that. Johnathan when he updated Intel not long ago probably should have added a counter to Intel team it should probably clear warhead timers for 5s.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,371 Arc User
    edited August 2023
    protoneous wrote: »

    ..my Jem'hadar bug ship

    Would your ship be the original Tier 5 Jem'hadar Attack Ship from 2011 or the Tier 5 Jem'hadar Escort from 2018?


    I'm not certain... it's the one the character got when I created him during the Dominion event... probably 2018.

    That is the T5U escort. It is a nice little ship and the ONLY reason I keep the hornytoad from the Gamma Recruit event, (not being able to get into the head of a Jem'Hadar means they are useless to me as characters), if there was an inexpensive way to get the T5U version or a T6 version I would do that and get rid of the toad. It is a little fragile even for an escort, but those bombs not only kill heavier escorts with ease, they do considerable damage to destroyers and cruisers, especially if they get spammed with them.

    And yes, it is supposed to be Tac Team that clears it (and it at least used to clear it in the past). I wonder if the rework eliminated any kind of counter to the ability, though that seems unlikely (on the other hand, it may have caused a bug that blocks the Tac Team from clearing it or something).

    Edit: Beaming a torpedo from stores would be useless since their warhead tanks are filled with antimatter in the firing tube during the arming phase just before launch. In theory the torpedo tube should go into cooldown even though it did not actually launch the torp as it loads another torpedo and starts the fueling and arming procedure on the next one (and it might, I never really noticed in the heat of battle).
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,932 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »

    ..my Jem'hadar bug ship

    Would your ship be the original Tier 5 Jem'hadar Attack Ship from 2011 or the Tier 5 Jem'hadar Escort from 2018?

    I'm not certain... it's the one the character got when I created him during the Dominion event... probably 2018.

    F2P cooldown reduction (CDR) for the 2018 bug ship (Jem'hadar Escort) is highlighted in green. Needs 3 purple technicians free from doffing the B'Tran cluster. It would work fine with cannons ✓

    1968s6an5m8o.jpg

    CDR = being able to use boff abilities more often for more damage and more heals :smile:

    Use with a basic keybind for best effect..

    Emergency Power to Weapons --> Beam or Cannon firing mode --> Attack Pattern Beta 1 --> Aux to Bat 1 --> Photonic Officer 1
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,548 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    protoneous wrote: »

    ..my Jem'hadar bug ship

    Would your ship be the original Tier 5 Jem'hadar Attack Ship from 2011 or the Tier 5 Jem'hadar Escort from 2018?

    I'm not certain... it's the one the character got when I created him during the Dominion event... probably 2018.

    F2P cooldown reduction (CDR) for the 2018 bug ship (Jem'hadar Escort) is highlighted in green. Needs 3 purple technicians free from doffing the B'Tran cluster. It would work fine with cannons ✓

    1968s6an5m8o.jpg

    CDR = being able to use boff abilities more often for more damage and more heals :smile:

    Use with a basic keybind for best effect..

    Emergency Power to Weapons --> Beam or Cannon firing mode --> Attack Pattern Beta 1 --> Aux to Bat 1 --> Photonic Officer 1

    Or just buy the Boilmer Effect trait with Lobi or EC. Then instead of wasting 3 DOFF slots on techs... and dumping your aux power (which makes your science based heals weak) you can slot Aux to structural integrity or Aux to Damp in that slot... and still have perfect cool downs. (a2s is up every 10s making it pretty easy to always have a boilmer proc going very rarely misses... combo with the PO if you really want to be 100% sure your always at global).

    I know their are free ways to get Tech doffs. But the Boilmer trait isn't that expensive EC wise.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,932 Arc User
    I guess I should have included The Boimler Effect as it's only 200 Lobi or 60,000,000 EC per character, but two bridge officer training manuals might be a bit cheaper for someone just wanting to give things a try :smile:
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,548 Arc User
    edited August 2023
    protoneous wrote: »
    I guess I should have included The Boimler Effect as it's only 200 Lobi or 60,000,000 EC per character, but two bridge officer training manuals might be a bit cheaper for someone just wanting to give things a try :smile:

    As long as they have the doffs already I guess.

    I think fighting the NPCs he is talking about you want some on going sources of hull resist. A2S is nice for that. As well as aux to bat constantly dumping your aux meaning things like Hazards get reduced greatly. (unless your remembering to pop it pre a2b all the time) Damp is even better resist wise but for sure more a niche skill.

    OP if your not space rich and Boilmer effect is too rich for your blood. MSG me your in game @ handle. I'll help out.
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