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Has there been an increase in players not ready for elite tfos playing?

nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 1,266 Arc User
I'm curious, with the decision to lock components for the advanced consoles behind the elite TFO wall, are there more players going there even though they are not ready? I'm not even sure how the mechanic is working, are the components drops like the old salvaged tech from the bad old Omega rep days? Seems like STO is regressing to policies that did not work in the past, having to go to email to get exchange stuff, going to TFOs to get the parts for consoles.... seems like it's time to party like it's 2012
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We Need BERETS in the tailor
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

Comments

  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,723 Arc User
    They're a 50% drop chance from the elite R&D material packs you get on Elite TFO completion.

    It is a weird decision to lock them behind elite TFOs though. I presume the idea is to frustrate lesser-geared people into just buying the R&D packs for zen.

    They are a nice dilithium sink with the randomness of the mod pool though.
  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,183 Arc User
    edited June 2023
    nixie50 wrote: »
    I'm curious, with the decision to lock components for the advanced consoles behind the elite TFO wall, are there more players going there even though they are not ready? I'm not even sure how the mechanic is working, are the components drops like the old salvaged tech from the bad old Omega rep days? Seems like STO is regressing to policies that did not work in the past, having to go to email to get exchange stuff, going to TFOs to get the parts for consoles.... seems like it's time to party like it's 2012

    I have mixed feelings about that. Most ground TFO's are going fine unless people don't know what to do in Brotherhood of the Sword and premature think they can click consoles before (advanced optionals) are over. However Space is total different story. Sometimes you get lucky and you got 1 or 2 good players but I have seen more then my fair share of people who shouldn't even play advanced and they leech their way through if possible. While I like the idea of getting something of value for doing Elite TFO's, I hate the fact that alot of people just think they can leech their way through on other peoples build. It wouldn't be so bad if it its just 1 here and there or maybe 2 but most of the time its more.

    You are not guaranteed those Materials either and I don't understand why they not drop as random instead of you have to go for a specific chance of drop to a specific TFO. They could could have solved that better. But better probably means more work and more work can't do because the main income is selling ships in lock boxes...

    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,257 Arc User
    I think part of the leeching problem is idea that to get anything but pathetic DPS you need to have special "meta" build that are arcane constructs given only to those who are members of the cult of the DPS, while I don't personally see it this way I've been this idea put forth many times in this forum and if that's the image a lot people have they won't put the work in for better DPS because they think they can't or that it wouldn't be fun for them.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,712 Community Moderator
    edited June 2023
    Last time I talked with one of the devs it sounded like their thought process was similar to putting the salvaged technology you need to make experimental upgrade tokens. The more powerful they had the potential to be, the more investment required to get them. Take that with a grain of salt as I won't presume to speak for them in this instance. That's just the impression I got from it.

    In terms of elites, most all of them are doable with a basic set of mk xii very rare gear you can pick up from story missions and a very basic understanding of mechanics and DPS. You don't need to know every little nook and cranny of the game, but you do at least need to know a few basics.

    Far as DPS builds go, the more resources you can invest the easier time you'll have for the most part. Anyone can make a DPS build though as they're not secrets, despite what sometimes seems like people clutching their pearls to keep it that way. If folks want/need build help I'm glad to provide what I can.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,183 Arc User
    In terms of elites, most all of them are doable with a basic set of mk xii very rare gear you can pick up from story missions and a very basic understanding of mechanics and DPS. You don't need to know every little nook and cranny of the game, but you do at least need to know a few basics.

    I don't agree with the mk xii very rare for instances which are timed. Like Infected at the beginning if everybody in there had the basic knowledge and mk xii very rare I don't think that there is enough time to destroy everything. I might be wrong though. Basic knowledge I can agree on, I see lots of that lacking since I played those elite TFO's. Though some people just leech their way through to get the stuff.



    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,593 Arc User
    not surprised at all, really. anything shiny and new has to be locked behind a wall of some sort per the dev code.
    you have to conform to the way they think you have to play or you don't get the toys.
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    We Want Vic Fontaine
  • lasoniolasonio Member Posts: 490 Arc User
    I think it's pretty funny actually in a poetic kind of way.

    This is a total inverse of that argument a few weeks back about Elite players face rolling normal tfo for the events. Now it's normal players destroying elites and stopping the progress.

    Not saying that anyone here currently was making the argument that players can play how they want and not raise their dps to a minimum standard. Just saying it's actually pretty detrimental, to right out destructive, that these "casual" non dps players are actually bringing harm to others. When the inverse of high dps players weren't hurting them other then their feelings, I suppose?

    It's pretty funny because it destorys the "Argument" that players don't have to persue dps in some manner, but can play how they want. Well, if thats the case, shouldn't they ignore the advanced consoles and just play normal and advanced and not persue dps consoles? Then once that is asked, the goal post will be moved and the argument will be reversed because it really didn't make sense in the first place and wasn't a good faith discussion. Well not like it matters either way to me personally since i have 7 of all the consoles to Epic from elite runs and playing the market long ago anyhow.

    So I've got no dog in the fight. I just think it's funny that normal players that argued they didn't need dps are now clamouring to get the dps consoles that they said they don't really need in the first place. Thus proving they need dps or desire it in some manner or else they wouldn't ruin or care to enter elites
    Even god rested. No work ethic.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,360 Arc User
    I don't think it's so much a "need" for DSP as a bad case of FOMO - they don't want there to be a console in the game that they don't have access to. I don't have that problem, so I'm not charging into TFOs that I'm frankly not ready for; if I did feel the need, however, I'd like to think that I'd run through the TFO on Normal first until I was sure I knew what to do at each stage.
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  • lasoniolasonio Member Posts: 490 Arc User
    I get the FOMO, though if that was the case they should have FOMO about other consoles and ships and if that's the case they have more then enough resources to have a "META" build.

    Also, it don't think it's some conspiracy as many players are eluding to. A nefarious scheme of some sort.

    I am sure these items are and were deliberately designed to be in the hands of High DPSer's to make them rethink the value of released lock box and promo ships, since they are the games best evangelist. They make the youtube content, stock the wiki, write the reddit's and inform the community of the value of traits, consoles, and ships. Which, like it or not, does influence the masses. which in turn opens some wallets.

    These consoles were more then likely made to expand the catalog of "Good" Ships based on dps to include many of the hero ships that are heavy Engineering and Miracle worker. So ships like the Parliament, or the Texas, or even the Connie three that are engineering heavy, can be pulled off the trash heap and rearranged in the zeitgeist. Overnight the MW Flight Deck Cruisers became the best carriers in the game again. The science ones are still... trash compared to the other science R and D consoles, so they need to work on that, but so far the Engineering ones definitely changed the "Meta" and ship choices for DPS over night.

    It's advertisement through action and not words.
    Even god rested. No work ethic.
  • knightmare#8708 knightmare Member Posts: 291 Arc User
    Well perhaps if these new components and consoles weren't going for 25mil + then lower geared players wouldn't have to queue for Elite TFO's to get the the parts themselves. Not that I do that mind you, I can barely hold my own in advanced, I'm not going to try elite, but I can understand why some would given the price gouging.
  • p331p331 Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited June 2023
    As a causal non dps chasing player, I play the game on normal, with the occasional advanced, without any real problem. Star Trek Online allows everyone to play their own way. Because of this I see no reason to bother with these Advanced Consoles. They are not required for how I choose to play. The one thing these consoles may end up doing though is widen the gap between casual and more dps oriented players. Which may result in even faster completion times of normal ques during events. This is of course no fault of the players who choose to gain more damage potential, just the way the game is evolving.

    Everyone is allowed to play as they choose to. For me I chose to play less TFO's and more patrols so that I can play as I want to without negatively impacting anyone else's enjoyment of the game. My intention of this post is to voice my opinion, no offense intended towards anyone.
    Post edited by p331 on
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,712 Community Moderator
    Well perhaps if these new components and consoles weren't going for 25mil + then lower geared players wouldn't have to queue for Elite TFO's to get the the parts themselves. Not that I do that mind you, I can barely hold my own in advanced, I'm not going to try elite, but I can understand why some would given the price gouging.

    You don't need the new consoles, you want them but you don't need them. There are far better options from just fleet consoles that one can get. Right now the mats go for absurd amounts of EC because they're still new and there isn't an adequate supply to keep the prices low like there is with salvaged technology.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,782 Arc User
    There are more players queueing for elite in general (the queues launch much faster compared to before the release of the advanced consoles).

    Which probably means that, yes, more players who aren't ready for it are queueing for it as well. Just like with advanced.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,782 Arc User
    edited June 2023
    To be honest, it's not just a matter of 'not being ready' as in that the player's own ship isn't powerful enough or anything like that. The issue is also one of a lacking team spirit.

    People seem to think they can just do the same thing they do on advanced. Take Azure Nebula for example: instead of helping with releasing beams, they fly off immediately after the fight, only to get themselves killed (and, thus, dropping the damage potential of the team in the meantime too).

    Not healing the teammate who's taking all the damage is another example. Player gets destroyed, the team temporarily loses his DPS. And the next player becomes a target, which he might have prevented if he had supported his teammate.

    I've only been in ISE once or twice and luckily it didn't happen then, but it wouldn't surprise me if there are also people trying to solo one side there, instead of sticking with the team (or being on probe duty for example).


    Now, of course there are people who can actually solo a big part of an elite mission. But most players who try, actually can't. And, thus, shouldn't try. To quote a few elite players on here: it's a team effort.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,782 Arc User
    Well perhaps if these new components and consoles weren't going for 25mil + then lower geared players wouldn't have to queue for Elite TFO's to get the the parts themselves. Not that I do that mind you, I can barely hold my own in advanced, I'm not going to try elite, but I can understand why some would given the price gouging.

    Their prices will drop. As with most things.

    It's just that there is very high demand for the latest shiny, and very little supply as all the materials had yet to be obtained. With fresh demand for new consoles declining as people fill up their ships (or decide the consoles are not worth it) and supply of materials increasing over time, prices will come down.

    Also, they're not really 'high' as of right now. They used to be a lot more expensive. Which isn't strange either, as with the contents of the infinity box, it's a very small group supplying the stuff for everyone.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,183 Arc User
    Most of these people don't even get that things which were optional on advanced are a must do on Elite. They play Elite like normal or advanced and fail missions like Brotherhood of the Sword in no time.
    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • ashstorm1ashstorm1 Member Posts: 679 Arc User
    Any interest I might have initially had for these new consoles was instantly reduced to zero upon discovering they were locked behind Elite content. Another rather poor move from Cryptic...
  • schnootyschnooty Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    Simple solution: Join a fleet in an armada, and make some friends to do elites.
  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,183 Arc User
    schnooty wrote: »
    Simple solution: Join a fleet in an armada, and make some friends to do elites.

    That does not guarantee success. Those people from randoms are from fleets and I would not want to run Elites with them if they were in my fleet. Only if I know I have enough people to complete the task with then I can pull 1 or 2 depending on what map maybe 3. Saying joining a fleet is the solution is nonsense.

    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • live8evillive8evil Member Posts: 127 Arc User
    I've modified my build to be able to carry most elite TFOs (of interest!) with minimal or 0 help, so as always - there is no problem. But yeah, in this "reverse case of 2 much DPS", some people can actualy get ... "robbed" of their time and resources by unprepared players.

    On a different note, I didn't even notice a high level of unprepareness, but I also wait a very long time to get my TFOs of choice poppin', so most of my time is still spent playing advanced randoms. Less hassle and the "money" is better.
  • snow#1952 snow Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    szerontzur wrote: »
    They're a 50% drop chance from the elite R&D material packs you get on Elite TFO completion.

    It is a weird decision to lock them behind elite TFOs though. I presume the idea is to frustrate lesser-geared people into just buying the R&D packs for zen.

    They are a nice dilithium sink with the randomness of the mod pool though.

    i was also getting about 50% droprate till last night, since yesterday droprate went down to 1 out of 9 but havent seen any report on reduced droprate, anyone have same experience?
  • thunderfoot#5163 thunderfoot Member Posts: 4,540 Arc User
    edited June 2023
    There has always been an issue with people either not geared correctly or not knowledgeable enough playing Elite TFOs due to the rewards offered by them. The new gear didn't change this. It adds to the issue.

    The answer remains the same as before - Namely, if you feel the need to participate in Elite TFOs, do so with people you know and have played with before. Do not expect random players to be either geared correctly or knowledgeable enough.

    [offtopic]
    Here is a question I have not seen anyone has asked yet:
    Are any of these consoles and batteries actually worth the time and effort?

    Another question follows from this one:
    Will any of these consoles and batteries make someone a better STO player?

    There are people within my Fleet who have decided to do everything they can to acquire this new gear. Yet they still play STO just as badly as they did the day before this Fancy Dan stuff was released. One of them crafted a Console and gave it to me. I used it once. I thought it was interesting. But no more than that. The use of the console did not make a significant improvement in any part of how I use that particular build. The improvements it did make were minor and something I could accomplish without the console. The batteries offer two improvements each. But they do not last any longer than the batteries I currently use.

    I looked at the requirements for acquiring the needed materials to make more of these consoles and batteries. I decided the return on investment is not good enough. So I will not spend Zen or Dilithium on any of it. If you want to monetize the R&D packs, Cryptic, I have no issue with you doing so. But I do think you could have made better, smarter choices than this one.
    [/offtopic]
    A six year old boy and his starship. Living the dream.
  • lasoniolasonio Member Posts: 490 Arc User
    it's subjective, but the obvious point of these consoles is to make 5 eng console cruisers to be able to compete with 5 tac seat tac ships.

    Imho it was meant to reshuffle the deck on the current hero ships that are all being mothballed because they are not optimal with DPS builds. So you can slot these, 5-7 and can bring enough dps to bear on the target that you can explore new builds on new ships.

    If you're a casual player, or a normal player, then the use you get out of these will be minimal in regards to builds, but i also believe you will benefit more from these consoles then DPS'ers because the majority of ships casual players fly are cruisers. And from all the runs and parses i've done so far, these consoles are better.

    You can easily pick up crit chance in bridge officers, Duty officers, Belluim and or traits like terran goodbye to replace lost crit chance, and there are a slue of crit damage buffs all over the place so there's no lose there, but that power level that's hard to come by and the builds you can make from it are open world. How it can easily open up traits and such that you haven't used in a while or before, it's actually a master class in redesigning the game around your weakness's imposed on you by legal restraints.

    From what ive seen so far, these consoles, the eng weapon ones, over perform tac's just a touch, but they also open up a lot in way of new and exotic builds, which allows us to use lost traits to find a new meta
    Even god rested. No work ethic.
  • ometaklahnometaklahn Member Posts: 19 Arc User
    It's long-overdue for the game to not have elite random TFOs
  • proteus#8097 proteus Member Posts: 216 Arc User
    edited June 2023
    ometaklahn wrote: »
    It's long-overdue for the game to not have elite random TFOs
    You might want to rephrase that.

    I suspect what you meant was the opposite of what you actually said.
  • nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 1,266 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    That does not guarantee success. Those people from randoms are from fleets and I would not want to run Elites with them if they were in my fleet. Only if I know I have enough people to complete the task with then I can pull 1 or 2 depending on what map maybe 3. Saying joining a fleet is the solution is nonsense.

    The goal of joining a fleet is to socialize, find like minded players with similar play styles and goals and who will work together toward completing objectives together. Fairly certain that is what the intent was of the suggestion. There are a great many friendly, helpful fleets out there who run Elite TFOs successfully. Joining one of them is definitely not nonsense.

    Jumping into any random fleet you come across is not going to accomplish anything without knowing the people in them first.

    and yet you cannot log into the game without getting spammed by fleet invites. which REALLY pisses me off when I happen to be engaged in a battle.
    when it happens like that my inner Groucho comes forth:

    “I wouldn't want to belong to a club that would have me as a member”
    ― Groucho Marx
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    We Need BERETS in the tailor
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