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Can we please get the old auction system back?

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    kajofolfkajofolf Member Posts: 69 Arc User
    edited May 2023
    (Flaming, trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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    tribbulatertribbulater Member Posts: 292 Arc User
    edited May 2023
    Hey folks,

    So yesterday, our executive producer, Jarrod, basically said, "What do you MEAN they have to go to a mailbox to pick up their items, is this 2002?"

    So that's already been changed and will be in a future update.

    The actual question he should have asked is:
    "How did we manage to go from an exchange trading system that required 2 clicks per purchase (already double what's needed), to a trading system that requires 6+ clicks across two separate interfaces for every single purchase?

    What is this? 'UI Design like it's 1999!'?"

    I would greatly appreciate it if we could get some feedback or guidance on whether the current slapped-in patch of "let's just eliminate the function of physical mailboxes in the game" is expected to be the final fix, or if the exchange is heading back to it's working version, or even being upgraded to an actually better functionality.

    Thank you for any information you can provide on this.
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    kaosbainkaosbain Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    Again, an opt in option where you get to choose between the old system and the new system would be ideal. A toggle in the options to choose one system over the other. I know a few fleet members are happy with this new implementation, but many others are not. I know for the devs it would be a hassle to keep 2 systems to work in tandem and constantly updated, but for the players, it would be ideal.
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    husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,601 Arc User
    If the lets remove the idea of a mail box from the game.... is the only fix going forward. Then it's still broken.

    This system is terrible. There where places to sit in game that had the mail and exchange on top of each other. All this does is remove one clicks required to purchase something. Its what now six instead of 7.... Thanks I guess ? ? ?

    If this is the "final" fix... its typical Cryptic lazy. Oh I know we'll just remove the need for the mail boxes we have on every map? No one asked for that... the mail boxes where fine. What isn't fine is pushing EVERYTHING that changes hands in a day into the mail. (in a game filled with 100s of small stackable to 9999 items that get exchanged its annoying) Doffs, Crafting Materials, Boosters, Kit modules, Keys. All the things that get sold in 1s or small stacks. This change is very very annoying.
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    theboxisredtheboxisred Member Posts: 458 Arc User
    Hey folks,

    So yesterday, our executive producer, Jarrod, basically said, "What do you MEAN they have to go to a mailbox to pick up their items, is this 2002?"

    So that's already been changed and will be in a future update.

    The actual question he should have asked is:
    "How did we manage to go from an exchange trading system that required 2 clicks per purchase (already double what's needed), to a trading system that requires 6+ clicks across two separate interfaces for every single purchase?

    What is this? 'UI Design like it's 1999!'?"

    I would greatly appreciate it if we could get some feedback or guidance on whether the current slapped-in patch of "let's just eliminate the function of physical mailboxes in the game" is expected to be the final fix, or if the exchange is heading back to it's working version, or even being upgraded to an actually better functionality.

    Thank you for any information you can provide on this.

    It's a good question, but my suspicious nature, and some observed patterns of behavior, has me asking, "Who's trying to convince their bosses that they've increased player interest by implementing a Time Gate?"

    For one thing, I don't recall a massive concern from huge swaths of the player base about them losing EC on the Exchange.

    Visual Pollution? Yep, plenty have a concern. There's even a VFX Issues sticky thread.

    Auto Piloting in Sector Space? Yup, it's also been brought up enough to have a sticky thread.

    So where is the big, honkin' sticky thread about the big, honkin' player concerns about the loss of X amount of EC's after reaching the EC cap?

    Curious ain't it?

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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    It's a good question, but my suspicious nature, and some observed patterns of behavior, has me asking, "Who's trying to convince their bosses that they've increased player interest by implementing a Time Gate?"

    For starters, I believe their intentions were good. As I said earlier, though, Cryptic seems to be in the habit of fixing things that don't need fixing (certain utterly unnecessary large, red reticles on Borg shield generators leap to mind).

    If I want to be real cynical, I don't feel a time gate was intended per se, but ere to force you to come to a Social Zone. All sounds a bit too paranoid to me, though. I think it was really just a matter of fixing something no one asked to see fixed. I'd rather (here i go again), they did things like swap out the Klingon HoS bridge for the bigger, more beautiful one in a misson ('Enemies of the Empire', iirc). You know, small QoL improvements here and there, that take endlessly less time to do, and are actually things people want, and don't require you to acquire RSI in the process.
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,396 Arc User
    "Forcing you to come to a social zone"? Aside from summoning the trade ship or having one particular Ferengi bridge, when were you ever able to access the Exchange from wherever you happened to be? (In fact, with the most recent change, it's been made *easier* than it used to be, as now you don't have to be at a mailbox to get stuff out of the mail.)

    "It's doubled the clicks!" Well, I suppose technically needing two clicks instead of one is "double", but good heavens, y'all make it sound like trying to change a column width in an already-created Word document. I mean, I'm pretty out of shape (unless "round" counts as a shape), and I have arthritis, but my fingers aren't that weak yet.
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    "Forcing you to come to a social zone"? Aside from summoning the trade ship or having one particular Ferengi bridge, when were you ever able to access the Exchange from wherever you happened to be?


    Hence why I followed that sentence with "All sounds a bit too paranoid to me, though."

    And you always have to be at an Exchange to put stuff up, but never before did you have to go to a Social Zone to retrieve your stuff, was the point. If you are selling several hundreds of individual keys, for example, having to fly to a mailbox near you, to collect on the 'autions' you won, was. in fact, technically a forced extra trip to a Social Zone.

    But all of this is moot now, and they just allowed us to collect our items/EC directly from our local mail now.
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    doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    Maybe we can add a TAKE ALL button for mail and I'm satisfied enough.
    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
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    exarch1701exarch1701 Member Posts: 71 Arc User
    Can we get a "take all" button, that disables when you cant "take all", on the mailbox? Also, it would be ideal, if you would make the mail account wide claimable. It would save a bit of time and clicks on our part.
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,455 Community Moderator
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    exarch1701 wrote: »
    Can we get a "take all" button, that disables when you cant "take all", on the mailbox?

    Well, then you're back to square one, trying to combat a potential overflow issue -- one they now solved with the mail attachments.
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    fred26291#2759 fred26291 Member Posts: 1,274 Arc User
    edited June 2023
    . . . .

    Post edited by fred26291#2759 on
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    evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    exarch1701 wrote: »
    Can we get a "take all" button, that disables when you cant "take all", on the mailbox?

    Well, then you're back to square one, trying to combat a potential overflow issue -- one they now solved with the mail attachments.

    They could make it so that it checks to see if you have enough inventory and/or EC cap space before taking it, and giving an error if it would cause an overflow. Personally I'd be happy if I could just shift+click a mail entry and auto loot it like I can in WoW.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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    doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    exarch1701 wrote: »
    Can we get a "take all" button, that disables when you cant "take all", on the mailbox?

    Well, then you're back to square one, trying to combat a potential overflow issue -- one they now solved with the mail attachments.

    I thought the issue was energy credits not items?

    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    exarch1701 wrote: »
    Can we get a "take all" button, that disables when you cant "take all", on the mailbox?

    Well, then you're back to square one, trying to combat a potential overflow issue -- one they now solved with the mail attachments.

    I thought the issue was energy credits not items?


    Well, in the current system, EC received is also considered an item (= single attachment). Point was, the proposed 'take all' button would put one equally at risk of an overflow. So, if you then need to put in a safeguard to prevent 'take all' from blackholing your EC, then you might as well just depost the EC directly, and do the check there. Aka, you'd be back where you started.
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    pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,188 Arc User
    edited May 2023
    jonsills wrote: »
    "Forcing you to come to a social zone"? Aside from summoning the trade ship or having one particular Ferengi bridge, when were you ever able to access the Exchange from wherever you happened to be? (In fact, with the most recent change, it's been made *easier* than it used to be, as now you don't have to be at a mailbox to get stuff out of the mail.)

    "It's doubled the clicks!" Well, I suppose technically needing two clicks instead of one is "double", but good heavens, y'all make it sound like trying to change a column width in an already-created Word document. I mean, I'm pretty out of shape (unless "round" counts as a shape), and I have arthritis, but my fingers aren't that weak yet.
    Its not just double the clicks or easier then it used to be. I just did a quick count up and got 7 extra clicks per item after the fix which only gave a small improvement, it was worse than 7 extra clicks at one point. With 10 items that’s 70 extra clicks. My last trade took over 5mins longer and 100+ extra clicks and I had to run back and fourth 3 extra times. Repeat that a dozen times and we are talking 840 extra clicks and an extra hour. As someone with arthritis you should know, not only had frustrating that is but how painfully it can be.

    The new system is frustrating and inefficient compared to the old system. It’s a major step backwards all for no real benefit. It might not have much impact on the light users who only buy 1 item once in a blue moon. For those that trade in bulk or daily the exchange is now very frustrating and difficult to use compared to the old system. Try buying 100 stacks of materials so you can craft or worse selling 100 stacks of materials. That's over 700 extra clicks and extra running around.

    All the streamlined and previous automated QOL improvements have been removed. We need the old system back, this new system is like going back in time to 2002 games all for no real benefit. The negatives of the new system far outweigh any benefits.

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    s10ecpunut#1436 s10ecpunut Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    Well, I can certainly see the usual replies with the "Hey, it's not a problem for me so it shouldn't be a problem for you" attitude.

    The previous system was flat-out better, faster, easier to keep track of. Your inventory, Doff bays and EC all updated instantly so you could see the result of every purchase immediately. You could buy and relist items without having to run to the mailbox in-between.

    This change is worse for 98% of the game and only benefits a very few people who want to post multi-billions of EC worth items without having to worry about losing EC.

    Put it this way - we've got plenty of people saying "Wow, what an incredibly foolish change." We've got a few people saying "Eh, deal with it, it's not so bad as you make it out to be".

    And literally zero people saying "Hey, nice change!".

    I completely agree with this! Is there somewhere else that we can make our voices heard to the developers? Do they have a voting system in place so that we as the players can vote on implemented changes?
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    scorpwanna#3529 scorpwanna Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited May 2023
    I can see how the new system could be a problem for botters.

    Ya know, ever since the update on the Exchange I haven't seen Yolae the bot hanging around Qo'nos. Come to think about it, haven't seen his girl friend bot either. hrmm.......
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    husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,601 Arc User
    I can see how the new system could be a problem for botters.

    Ya know, ever since the update on the Exchange I haven't seen Yolae the bot hanging around Qo'nos. Come to think about it, haven't seen his girl friend bot either. hrmm.......

    I still don't get how anyone thinks the new system is a problem for bots? Did they add a captchu I missed?

    If you think you saw a botter... I would suggest that on day one of the change they moved to a location where the exchange and mail where on top of each other to make it so their potential bot wouldn't need to move. Qo'nos would actually be a terrible place to park a bot if one was doing something so low.

    New system just involves more clicks.... bots don't care about clicks. Humans are annoyed by pointless extra clicks, bots really don't care.
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    tribbulatertribbulater Member Posts: 292 Arc User
    edited May 2023
    The point about botters is correct - the new system is only extra mouse movement and extra clicks to achieve the end result. It will simply take them a week or so to adjust their scripts/botting programs. (Assume their even are market bots, I've never looked into it.)

    The new changes actually favor market bots because they've taken a simple fast task and turned it into a slower, longer, repetitive multi-click task that frustrates actual players. This is exactly the situation people make bots for.
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    fred26291#2759 fred26291 Member Posts: 1,274 Arc User
    edited June 2023
    . . . .
    Post edited by fred26291#2759 on
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    scorpwanna#3529 scorpwanna Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    edited May 2023
    Oh wait, there he is, old Yolae still likes to stand in his corner on Qo'nos. Poor guy never has a day off either. Why, he and his girlfriend have to be on separate instances just to get away from each other.
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    annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,626 Arc User
    edited May 2023
    Ok, I am trying to understand here. they did this big change strictly because EC was being lost due to the cap? no other reason?

    How about instead of changing the entire system, you just get a pop up warning, "If the sale of this item exceeds your EC cap, excess will be lost." At that point it's on the player to buy some big ticket item, contribute to a fleet project or whatever.
    Maybe even on log in, the system checks toon and account balances and gives a warning at, say at within 1.5M ec of the cap, Heck you could even make an accolade, "Moneybags"

    Probably well over 90% of the players are no where near the caps, and should not be inconvenienced by changes to the process
    We Want Vic Fontaine
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    meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,594 Arc User
    Ok, I am trying to understand here. they did this big change strictly because EC was being lost due to the cap? no other reason?

    How about instead of changing the entire system, you just get a pop up warning, "If the sale of this item exceeds your EC cap, excess will be lost."


    As Nr. 2 told Dr. Evil "This, too, already has happened." Which is to say, shortly before the change, I was selling stacks of 10 keys. Then one pushed me over the limit. Instead of blackholing my EC, though, the system gave me notice, saying something to the effect of my sale having been canceled, as I would have otherwise hit the cap! So, they had effectively already solved the matter, making the new system utterly unnecessary.

    And, indeed, as others have asked before me, where are all the rage-quit posts of ppl having lost EC in this manner?! And you know why those don't exist? Because ppl who deal in huge amounts of EC/do a lot of 'professional' trading, already knew how to observe the limits.
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    s10ecpunut#1436 s10ecpunut Member Posts: 6 Arc User
    We could stop using the system all together. Maybe they will listen to our concerns then?
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    fred26291#2759 fred26291 Member Posts: 1,274 Arc User
    edited June 2023
    . . . .
    Post edited by fred26291#2759 on
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    husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,601 Arc User
    edited May 2023
    (Flaming, trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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    fred26291#2759 fred26291 Member Posts: 1,274 Arc User
    edited June 2023
    . . . .
    Post edited by fred26291#2759 on
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    vendoodvendood Member Posts: 77 Arc User
    edited May 2023
    jonsills wrote: »
    "Forcing you to come to a social zone"? Aside from summoning the trade ship or having one particular Ferengi bridge, when were you ever able to access the Exchange from wherever you happened to be? (In fact, with the most recent change, it's been made *easier* than it used to be, as now you don't have to be at a mailbox to get stuff out of the mail.)

    "It's doubled the clicks!" Well, I suppose technically needing two clicks instead of one is "double", but good heavens, y'all make it sound like trying to change a column width in an already-created Word document. I mean, I'm pretty out of shape (unless "round" counts as a shape), and I have arthritis, but my fingers aren't that weak yet.

    Your posts so far have consisted of either misinformation ("EC is still auto-deposited", "one click replaced by two") or presumption ("active trading isn't a valid focus in STO"). I'm pretty sure an IP that includes Harry Mudd, Cyrano Jones, and the entire Ferengi race has room for active traders.

    Rather than further erode your credibility by imagining what you think the new system probably works like, I recommend you log in, open exchange, buy an item. 2 clicks. Previously, that's it, you were done. Now, open mail, retrieve the item, delete the mail, close the mail. Count the clicks and the amount of mouse-travel needed, as well as the extra time.

    All that is completely useless, extraneous activity that was entirely unneeded. As already pointed out by others, it "solves" a problem that didn't exist.

    In fairness, the new system has some advantages that are handy. Unfortunately, those 'advantages' lead to exploits, abuse, and greater market manipulation. And they don't outweigh the constant time/click-sink of the new system.

    Two things I can guarantee you: first, is that if everyone at Cryptic was required to buy 40 items and sell 20 items per day, and then submit a report stating how much of their daily time was wasted by the "mailbox" portion of the changes, it would be corrected very quickly. Of course, it hasn't been - because it only wastes players time.

    The second is that if a group of players had discovered a method of placing cover shields or blowing up a console, that forced every other player in the game to triple the time, clicks and effort needed to use the exchange... those players would have been reviled, reported, warned and then banned from the game if they continued.
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