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Ugh, still MORE grinding.

colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 2,200 Arc User
So... back in 2016 when K13 was added to the game, I decided to build the thing. I wasn't really impressed with the regular starbase, but the TOS aesthetic of K13 really appealed to me much more.

So, for the last SEVEN YEARS, I've been grinding, bankrupting all my characters of every single DO, EC and dilithium they get, and FINALLY, I finished upgrading the engineering and science lines to tier 3. The last one was a RIDICULOUS amount of officers and dilithium to upgrade, so when the 9 day countdown ended tonight, I went to K13 with some anticipation. Seven years had led to... NOTHING.

I arrived at the station, and it was still unfinished. I looked at the holding menu and... there's another upgrade, to make the thing Tier 3 itself... and the amount of resources to do it is STUPID. 25 MILLION credits? All my characters together don't have that much. 1.6 MILLION dilithium? It took me YEARS to get roughly HALF that much.

BOY am I disappointed. Years of work has led me to... more years of work and no actual benefit.

Nothing to be done about it, I know. I just needed to vent.
Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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    leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,368 Arc User
    So... back in 2016 when K13 was added to the game, I decided to build the thing. I wasn't really impressed with the regular starbase, but the TOS aesthetic of K13 really appealed to me much more.

    So, for the last SEVEN YEARS, I've been grinding, bankrupting all my characters of every single DO, EC and dilithium they get, and FINALLY, I finished upgrading the engineering and science lines to tier 3. The last one was a RIDICULOUS amount of officers and dilithium to upgrade, so when the 9 day countdown ended tonight, I went to K13 with some anticipation. Seven years had led to... NOTHING.

    I arrived at the station, and it was still unfinished. I looked at the holding menu and... there's another upgrade, to make the thing Tier 3 itself... and the amount of resources to do it is STUPID. 25 MILLION credits? All my characters together don't have that much. 1.6 MILLION dilithium? It took me YEARS to get roughly HALF that much.

    BOY am I disappointed. Years of work has led me to... more years of work and no actual benefit.

    Nothing to be done about it, I know. I just needed to vent.

    Spend $3 to get 3 keys and sell them on the exchange and you are sorted. Spend some cash on Dil too and just use that Dil to finish the project, I think 3000 Zen should get you enough.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
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    jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 10,395 Arc User
    Why did you decide to try to build these expensive systems with a solo fleet??
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
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    inferiorityinferiority Member Posts: 4,112 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    Why did you decide to try to build these expensive systems with a solo fleet??
    I've been working on a solo fleet too. It's challenging for sure, but still quite fun to see what you can manage by yourself.
    - - - - I n f e r i o r i t y - C o m p l e x - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Everyone has a better name and Youtube Channel than me...  :/
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,430 Community Moderator
    Seven years? And you're still not finished? I don't know what to tell you. I mean, I have to assume you don't spend a lot of time playing the game. And that's fine, of course. But if you're going to solo your Fleet, you're going to need to spend more time at it, if you're wanting it to go more quickly. You're aware that the wiki can tell you how many projects you have to do and the resources required for each one, right? That way, you're not caught off guard. Also, joining an Armada will help tremedously by reducing assignment requirements, especially if you're in a Gamma position within the Armada.

    I'm soloing 2 Fleets: one FED, one KDF. I started my FED Fleet in 2012 and my KDF Fleet in 2013. I maxed out everything on the FED Fleet years ago with the exception of the Starbase itself (currently working on Tier 5) and the Colony (currently working on Tier 3). In the same 7 year timeframe, I maxed out all other Holdings and got the Starbase to Tier 4, while also working on a second Fleet. It's entirely possible to do, even solo.
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    felderburgfelderburg Member Posts: 853 Arc User
    edited May 2023
    You could always invite some kindhearted moneybags to your fleet temporarily.

    Barring that, the energy credits shouldn't be too much of an issue if you buy keys, as stated, or happen to get lucky with a good lockbox ship. I would actually suggest grinding the summer lohlunaut currency. Even during the event it sells pretty well, but if you wait 'til winter, a stack of 999 can sell for over 10 million. Yes, it's a grind, but at least the summer event grind has some fun stuff, and it's only a few weeks of grind, not years.

    The dilithium might be more of a problem, but remember to grind out DOff and Admiralty stuff. I got 200k dilithium after logging back in during the last event and doing those every day on one character for 2 weeks. Just look for missions that award dilithium in both systems.

    Plus the Klingon Admiralty awards 40k dilithium for fleet use, so even you only do that on one character, you're looking at 40k every 10 days. 1.6 million/40k = 40, and 40x10 days = 400 days, so just over a year to get fleet-only dilithium in the amount needed, not the "years" you stated. No dilithium for your own use if you go that route (barring incidental from the admiralty missions) but at least you'd get the fleet project done.
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    proteus#8097 proteus Member Posts: 221 Arc User
    So... back in 2016 when K13 was added to the game, I decided to build the thing. I wasn't really impressed with the regular starbase, but the TOS aesthetic of K13 really appealed to me much more.

    So, for the last SEVEN YEARS, I've been grinding, bankrupting all my characters of every single DO, EC and dilithium they get, and FINALLY, I finished upgrading the engineering and science lines to tier 3. The last one was a RIDICULOUS amount of officers and dilithium to upgrade, so when the 9 day countdown ended tonight, I went to K13 with some anticipation. Seven years had led to... NOTHING.

    I arrived at the station, and it was still unfinished. I looked at the holding menu and... there's another upgrade, to make the thing Tier 3 itself... and the amount of resources to do it is STUPID. 25 MILLION credits? All my characters together don't have that much. 1.6 MILLION dilithium? It took me YEARS to get roughly HALF that much.

    BOY am I disappointed. Years of work has led me to... more years of work and no actual benefit.

    Nothing to be done about it, I know. I just needed to vent.

    I'm assuming you play on PC, in which case I couldn't offer any assistance. If you're an Xbox player though, I'd be happy to complete that last project for you in one fell swoop, if it would be welcome.
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    vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,886 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    jonsills wrote: »
    Why did you decide to try to build these expensive systems with a solo fleet??

    Why not? If that is something @colonelmarik found to be a challenge or a personal goal, why not?

    I agree. The only fleet i would join is my own, but I don't play enough to raise up all the elements to get a starbase up so it's of benefit
    sig.jpg
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    p331p331 Member Posts: 161 Arc User
    edited May 2023
    A single character refining 8000 dilithium a day can get to 1.6 million refined dilithium in 200 days time. In the same 200 day time period a character can reach 25 million energy credits by earning 125,000 energy credits each day.
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    seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    That said, I suppose it's working as intended. If it forces me to buy zen so I can use it for keys and dilithium, they've made money from it. I think it's kind of shady, but what's one to do.

    I am right there at the front of the line when it's time to call out Cryptic for being shady, but this is certainly not one of those times. Lets remember, you have opted to complete a fleet activity by yourself. You are doing something that was built with the intention of occupying a dozen or more players for a significant period of time.

    Now, as pointed out, if that's something you see as fun then no criticism for that.. that's cool, it's how you want to play and you're playing it that way.. all good. But the reason the goal is so monumental is because you're taking on the goal of 12 players by yourself. When you consider that you can meet this goal for about $10 in Zen it really doesn't seem so bad does it?

    I actually think it's pretty fair all considered.
    Insert witty signature line here.
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,541 Arc User
    edited May 2023
    p331 wrote: »
    A single character refining 8000 dilithium a day can get to 1.6 million refined dilithium in 200 days time. In the same 200 day time period a character can reach 25 million energy credits by earning 125,000 energy credits each day.

    And with admiralty, it's hard NOT to earn 125K+ credits per day just doing Klingon + Ferengi tracks on a single character, once per day. Do endeavors and there will be 50K - 500K credit drops fairly often.

    If someone chooses to solo a fleet, they choose to do a lot of grinding and/or pay some real world cash monies. They're free to gripe of course, but I'm free to shake my head and ask: "what did you expect?"
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    sierra078sierra078 Member Posts: 334 Arc User
    edited May 2023
    I started a solo fleet last year. All of my holdings are at tier 2, I'm close to tier 3 on the starbase. It helps if you have the rewards from the special recruits. Lots of fleet dil to be had. 40K per character and they only have to get up to Captain rank to claim. I also do Klingon Admiralty on a number of characters.
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    psychoplattpsychoplatt Member Posts: 285 Arc User
    If you find K13 Expensive - don't try the Colony :)
    nice u wasted so much time in your sig - i do not see it anyway :)
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    darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,732 Community Moderator
    part of why fleets are expensive is to act as resource sinks to build up and give people something to do. Also how often are you playing that you're just now getting done after 7 years? I mean congrats on getting done, but I have to question why it's taken that long for a single holding even if you are rolling solo.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

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    darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,732 Community Moderator
    Aside from not liking the numbers certain things cost, overall I'm still not sure I understand the complaint.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

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    doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,197 Arc User
    It's called Fleet Holdings for a reason. I have a Fleet on fed side which is maxed out but only because I had a few people helping out. I would get burned out trying to build all the fleet holdings by myself.
    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
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    crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    Aside from not liking the numbers certain things cost, overall I'm still not sure I understand the complaint.

    It's simply the reaction to thinking I was finished, only to find ANOTHER mountain to climb, more than twice the size of the one I just reached the top of.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6YjqOoAWRQo&amp;ab_channel=TheShowsMustGoOn%21
    ;)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,430 Community Moderator
    Aside from not liking the numbers certain things cost, overall I'm still not sure I understand the complaint.

    It's simply the reaction to thinking I was finished, only to find ANOTHER mountain to climb, more than twice the size of the one I just reached the top of.

    Well, yes. This is the way. 😏 It's even like this with Reputations. The next level up is usually approximately double the previous. I'm working on my Tier 5 Starbase, and it will take me 2.5x the effort I spent in getting to Tier 4.
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    theboxisredtheboxisred Member Posts: 457 Arc User
    edited May 2023
    Aside from not liking the numbers certain things cost, overall I'm still not sure I understand the complaint.

    It's simply the reaction to thinking I was finished, only to find ANOTHER mountain to climb, more than twice the size of the one I just reached the top of.

    Well, yes. This is the way. 😏 It's even like this with Reputations. The next level up is usually approximately double the previous. I'm working on my Tier 5 Starbase, and it will take me 2.5x the effort I spent in getting to Tier 4.




    I don't think that what the Colonel is saying. I don't get a "Next Tier is More Expensive than the Last Tier" vibe here.

    I think he's saying that he finished the project that would earn him all the "points" for achieving Tier 3 at K-13 only to discover that, after the cooldown there was yet another project, costing at least twice the one that was just completed, to make those already earned points "official."

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    darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,732 Community Moderator
    Personally I'm not seeing the issue here. While I would like to see certain costs lowered, keep in mind, we're talking about someone who is trying to level a fleet solo when they're meant to be leveled with groups of people contributing and not just a single person carrying the load.

    To put this in perspective lets take the 1.6m dil requirement as one calculation. If you assume a fleet of 10 people contributing on only a single character, that's 160k dilithium per person. Assuming all 10 people hit their dil refinement on that toon each day, that's 20 days worth of refinement which brings it down to earth. Again this assumes only 10 people contributing on one toon. If we assume those same people are contributing on 2 characters each, that cuts the 20 days into 10 days. Are those big numbers daunting to see, certainly. But they're not nearly as bad as people think.

    If anything needs to happen at this point imo, we need to be able to replicate colony provisions until tier 1.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

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    fred26291#2759 fred26291 Member Posts: 1,274 Arc User

    If anything needs to happen at this point imo, we need to be able to replicate colony provisions until tier 1.

    When the colony first came out, I tried to suggest this verry thing in multiple posts, IT NEVER HAPPENED.
    At this point in time, I do not see that ever hapening :).

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    crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    There was a thread a number of years ago that had an interesting suggestion along the lines of a scaling time/cost for fleet holdings depending on fleet size. I cannot recall all of the specifics, but it would have allowed for smaller, more casual fleets to need to spend less resources for project donations with the tradeoff being the project cooldowns would take longer. Larger fleets with more members would have the much shorter project cooldowns with the tradeoff being they spent more resources and collective effort for it.

    I forget the actual number of members the fleet system was designed around. IIRC it was something around 20 or 25 members and above. I would be curious to see how many fleets there are with that many individual players in them.

    Yeah, that would be dumb. They designed Fleets to be a Group endeavor. They don't stop you from being in a Solo Fleet and advancing the Holdings, but they don't (and IMO shouldn't) cater to the Solo Fleet player as that's not what the content was designed for.

    Under that system you could have a group of players decide to have one of their members run the Fleet and support him by giving him various needed items until everything is a T5 (T3 for the smaller Holdings); and then have everyone actually join for the Fleet benefits.

    You want to do it all yourself; fine, but don't complain because the system wasn't designed to make that option efficient or easy.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
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    crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Yeah, that would be dumb. They designed Fleets to be a Group endeavor. They don't stop you from being in a Solo Fleet and advancing the Holdings, but they don't (and IMO shouldn't) cater to the Solo Fleet player as that's not what the content was designed for. Under that system you could have a group of players decide to have one of their members run the Fleet and support him by giving him various needed items until everything is a T5 (T3 for the smaller Holdings); and then have everyone actually join for the Fleet benefits.

    Not sure you read what I wrote. Fleet holdings would still be a group endeavor. Why would a group of people do what you are suggesting when they could achieve the same thing much, much faster by all being in the larger fleet together?

    I agree that group content like fleet holdings should not changed to be made into solo endeavors. I do not think that is what the OP is asking for though.

    Is that your standard retort when someone disagrees? YES, I read what you wrote and I stand by my reply.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
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