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So the next MUDD Bundle Alliance Ships ???

doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
Now we put previously free event ships in a mega expensive bundle https://www.playstartrekonline.com/en/news/article/11537903 which don't even have or come close to the lockbox promo ships usually being in there in terms of stats ect...

I'm sorry guys but the feedback you get on Facebook and Twitter is well earned and should be here in the official forum as well. Those ships should go to the phoenix box or offer them for a zen store ship price but this is just beyond greedy.
C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on

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    szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,724 Arc User
    This one feels pretty yucky.

    Even if you did the full buyout during the events, it would have cost you 6k zen. This is a 250% markup for ships many people(including myself) got for free.

    To add insult to injury, these bundles aren't even permanent additions to the market.
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    crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    Yeah, IMO this is NOT a good way for players who weren't around for/didn't manage to complete the Events that awarded them for free to get them.

    Maybe running an event where you have multiple rewards for completing (including a new non-ship reward for those who already have the ships or don't want them still) said Event. But charging Zen (and a huge amount even with the Mudd 'sale price') really comes across as poor form considering there were 'Free' event completion rewards previously.

    If this is a Cryptic Marketing team test to see if they can get players to pay for what were at one time 'Free/Earnable just by playing certain content' rewards, I hope it fails big time.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,544 Arc User
    Some people would complain if you could get the limited-time ship they spent 20 days of grind on just by spending 2400 zen -- cries of "pay 2 win!" might ensue.

    Of course the reason why these are in Mudd's is to keep the FOMO going -- either you grind now, or you know you will need to spend $150 later. That's good business in the sense that it gets people to grind for the ships and log in for 20 days even when they aren't that interested in the ship. More logins = more zen purchased = the servers keep running and staff get paid.

    It's not ideal, but tricks like that seem to be necessary for a true F2P game where there is no cost for the base game, all expansions are free, crafting is free, they give away 3+ free ships a year, and there is no sleazy "energy" resource like mobile games use to limit your play time per day.
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    proteus#8097 proteus Member Posts: 223 Arc User
    edited March 2023
    Even if I didn't already have the Alliance ships from the events I wouldn't buy this for a variety of reasons...

    They're not aesthetically pleasing to me. By their own admission event ships are hamstrung performance-wise compared to Lobi, lockbox and promo ships. Yet they're asking exactly the same price as the previous choice packs with the aforementioned premium ships. The previous individual event ships in Mudd's were available at 4,250 Zen (75% off sale), whereas this, as a bundle, will at most be 50% off, meaning they will cost a minimum of 4,917 Zen per ship.

    Most people either have them already from playing the events or only want one or two they missed. The trouble is, I don't believe any of the filler items are really worth a third of the cost of the bundle either.

    On the upside, passing on it offers time to save up for something better at a later date.
    Post edited by proteus#8097 on
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    ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,571 Arc User
    Well, they put individual Event ships into Mudd's Market for the even more ridiculous price of around 18,000 Zen.

    I see we are backto 3 ship Bundles (in this case that's all they got). So now the 60k Zen Super Mega Bundle does not provide a fourth ship but just the three and a load of fluff.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
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    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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    live8evillive8evil Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    edited March 2023
    I won't make any negative comments, only thing i ask from devs, if any of them is reading this: drop this bundle, release a decent one a few weeks later and put old event ships, like these, in the dil store for 2 - 2,5 mil dil/ acc unlock or maybe 500K dil for a single character unlock. Support YOUR community.
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,544 Arc User
    edited March 2023
    live8evil wrote: »
    I won't make any negative comments, only thing i ask from devs, if any of them is reading this: drop this bundle, release a decent one a few weeks later and put old event ships, like these, in the dil store for 2 - 2,5 mil dil/ acc unlock or maybe 500K dil for a single character unlock. Support YOUR community.

    It doesn't hurt to ask, but that dil is given away free by Cryptic along with all of the other F2P goodies I listed above. They are already supporting the pure-F2P players fairly well in my opinion. At some point they have to ask us for the cash monies to keep the lights on.

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    live8evillive8evil Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    edited March 2023
    live8evil wrote: »
    I won't make any negative comments, only thing i ask from devs, if any of them is reading this: drop this bundle, release a decent one a few weeks later and put old event ships, like these, in the dil store for 2 - 2,5 mil dil/ acc unlock or maybe 500K dil for a single character unlock. Support YOUR community.

    It doesn't hurt to ask, but that dil is given away free by Cryptic along with all of the other F2P goodies I listed above. They are already supporting the pure-F2P players fairly well in my opinion. At some point they have to ask us for the cash monies to keep the lights on.

    At a high price, such as this - many, many would have to buy dil with zen. And that would support devs AND players alike.
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    whistlerdavidwhistlerdavid Member Posts: 418 Arc User
    people spend hundreds of dollars on zen to sale for dill just for the Phoenix prize boxes. kind of surprised they are placing their bets on 3 ships in mudds bundle and not in Phoenix epic tokens. well i guess it might make since on pc considering the amount of dil some have saved up over the years. that being said they might make more money on console just putting it in the prize boxes
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,455 Community Moderator
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    darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,735 Community Moderator
    I'm not a fan of the price point either to be perfectly honest and would have liked to seen them throw something like an epic phoenix token or something in to round out a 4th ship. With that in mind, what I do like is that the Mudds variants are account unlocks just like the original run of those ships unlike phoenix which is single toon unlock only. Assuming I am going to get the ships no matter what, I would rather fork over a little extra cash to get them account unlocked vs them being single toon unlocks. Folks forget that alot of people complained about the phoenix packs being single toon unlocks and eventually the boxes were no longer updated. Then along came Mudds to give people an account unlock variant. Whether folks think the value is there or not for their money is up to them.
    Some people would complain if you could get the limited-time ship they spent 20 days of grind on just by spending 2400 zen -- cries of "pay 2 win!" might ensue.

    People already whine about "pay to win" because the mere option to buyout the event exists. I also can't tell you the number of times I've seen people whine about "pay to win" because they bought a 10 pack of keys and didn't drop a lockbox ship off those 10 keys. Or they bought a set of 4 promo boxes from the cstore and didn't drop a promo ship. Far too many people think that if they have to pay more than $5 for something or if they don't drop a ship off $10 that it's "pay to win".

    For me, I don't care if I got a ship for free during the event and someone drops cash to get the same ship as me after the fact. It has ZERO effect on my ability to play the game at all. Prime example being the Samsar. I got it during the event years ago, yet before phoenix boxes were a thing people whined about others being able to get it saying "well you should've been there" and "it takes away from people who were there if folks can get the account unlock after the fact." Like no, no it doesn't. Of course it's like pulling teeth to get some people to see that.
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    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,152 Community Moderator
    I'm with Darkblade. If someone decides its a good investment that is their choice. In exchange, game gets funded, and we can continue to play in whatever ships we want to fly around in. I've only been tempted by one Mudd Pack, but then something else came along that I was more interested in. Yea I missed out on that one pack, but meh. The primary advantage is the account unlock. But again... its up to the player to decide if its worth it or not for themselves.

    And frankly people in STO who complain about P2W don't really understand that... win WHAT? Is it a race to get something? There really is no Pay 2 Win. Its Pay for Convenience. Pay to Have Now. As someone who has ground out a ton of large packs, I just don't see a reason to rage over it. So you have a choice of get the shiny now or get the shiny later. Why and how is that P2W? What unfair advantage does getting the shiny sooner than others give someone? A chance to mess around with it? A chance to find any potential bugs that need to be addressed later? The extra Dilithium that you still can only refine 8k a day? Seriously? What advantage is there over someone who doesn't buy out an event?

    Anyways...
    [/soapbox]
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    missmel#5308 missmel Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    edited March 2023
    The 60000 ZEN cost is $817 AUD in the PSN store (11000 Zen is $150 AUD). The bundle is significantly worse value than the Into Darkness and 10th Anniversary, which all contain more and far better ships, I am actually considering buying one of these 2 because it is good value for money.

    In future whoever comes up with these bundles have to remember that at this cost I could buy 7 to 8 AAA Games.
    Post edited by missmel#5308 on
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    husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,601 Arc User
    edited March 2023
    rattler2 wrote: »
    I'm with Darkblade. If someone decides its a good investment that is their choice. In exchange, game gets funded, and we can continue to play in whatever ships we want to fly around in. I've only been tempted by one Mudd Pack, but then something else came along that I was more interested in. Yea I missed out on that one pack, but meh. The primary advantage is the account unlock. But again... its up to the player to decide if its worth it or not for themselves.

    And frankly people in STO who complain about P2W don't really understand that... win WHAT? Is it a race to get something? There really is no Pay 2 Win. Its Pay for Convenience. Pay to Have Now. As someone who has ground out a ton of large packs, I just don't see a reason to rage over it. So you have a choice of get the shiny now or get the shiny later. Why and how is that P2W? What unfair advantage does getting the shiny sooner than others give someone? A chance to mess around with it? A chance to find any potential bugs that need to be addressed later? The extra Dilithium that you still can only refine 8k a day? Seriously? What advantage is there over someone who doesn't buy out an event?

    Anyways...
    [/soapbox]

    Fair points. Sometimes though you just have to rage for the little guy.
    I own all 3 of these ships so it really shouldn't bother me... cause it doesn't effect me directly. I am however a little annoyed with the obvious greed on display here. I don't want new players getting pinched like this... chances are they won't stick around. (no idea what Cryptic is thinking... telling somewhat new players oh you missed the Anniversary event ship from 12 months ago.... here lets sell you a catch up unlock. If I was one year into the game and saw this deal I probably wouldn't make it to two years in)

    I would be fine with them offering a 3 pack of these EVENT class ships if they want to offer people a discount to buy all 3. While offering each ship as a solo purchase. The part that makes this horrible is not being able to buy just one without being forced to buy filler to go with it.

    Everyone wanted each one of these ships to go into the mudd store. Giving new players opportunities to pick up old event stuff is great. I am even fine with Cryptic charging a reasonable premium for that over the event buy out option. This just seems predatory. Imagine being the player that has two of these and wants the third. By Grabthar's hammer what a savings.

    I will defend Mudd pack pricing in almost every case... promo pack and lockbox ship unlocks for for a little under 5k a piece is a very good deal considering some of the previous offerings have cost some players much more then that to acquire as a one off. It is also a great way to stick it to despicable gold sellers out there selling some of those same ships third party. I have only ever had an issue with two packs... the one where they decided to offer 4 ships in a choose 3 pack deal, trying to get people to buy the larger version. (think double buy at the time) also forcing players to buy a bunch of keys ect they don't need or want. This one I have an issue with for basically the exact same reason. These ships should be sold separately as the odds are high basically NO one needs all 3. Its the same greedy slime ball move they pulled with the 4 ship mudd pack.
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    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,455 Community Moderator
    husanakx wrote: »
    Imagine being the player that has two of these and wants the third.

    This would be me. I, unfortunately, missed out on the Jarok. I will be acquiring it. And while I am happy to be able to get it as a Mudd's account unlock, I'm not entirely thrilled that I'll have to spend a bit extra for other items that I wouldn't have otherwise purchased at this time.
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,544 Arc User
    edited March 2023
    husanakx wrote: »
    Imagine being the player that has two of these and wants the third.

    This would be me. I, unfortunately, missed out on the Jarok. I will be acquiring it. And while I am happy to be able to get it as a Mudd's account unlock, I'm not entirely thrilled that I'll have to spend a bit extra for other items that I wouldn't have otherwise purchased at this time.

    It would definitely be a better pack if there were other good choices in it -- like 75 keys instead of 50, or 2 Phoenix tokens not 1 or the actual zero (since it's a single-character token), or add the account-wide phoenix ship token like they had for one event (or was it a giveaway?) on console.

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    husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 1,601 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    Imagine being the player that has two of these and wants the third.

    This would be me. I, unfortunately, missed out on the Jarok. I will be acquiring it. And while I am happy to be able to get it as a Mudd's account unlock, I'm not entirely thrilled that I'll have to spend a bit extra for other items that I wouldn't have otherwise purchased at this time.

    It would definitely be a better pack if there were other good choices in it -- like 75 keys instead of 50, or 2 Phoenix tokens not 1 or the actual zero (since it's a single-character token), or add the account-wide phoenix ship token like they had for one event (or was it a giveaway?) on console.

    You know you make actually an interesting point.
    What if Cryptic made this a 6 ship pack instead.

    This would allow people that only need one of these like baddmoon to buy the one event ship and grab a couple other old lockbox ships. It would allow people that really did want all 3 event ships to still get them like they could anyway. It would also allow people that maybe only want one of these event ships even if they didn't have them to mix in a couple other ships.

    I know I said I hated the 4 ship pack... but that was because it forced a hard choice or double buy. Most people do not need these event ships at all and would just select the other 3 ships. People that say hey I want that nice carrier click console I grab that and something else.

    Another crazy idea. Mix one of the lowest selling ships from 3 of the previous mudd packs and add them as options.

    Hell Cryptic you wanna really really make money on a pack like this... make it a choose 3 from 9 items. Ya do it... add 6 ships the 3 events you wanna try and sell, 3 old ships... and the 3 filler choices. You would sell more... but not because people would spend more then they other wise would. You would just have more fence sitters say hey look this personal 3 choice pic would work for me here is my money.

    In fact Cryptic why don't you just get super crazy.... sell one mudd bundle only ever. Treat it like an Event box. When the sale is on... pay your 14,750 and choose any of the 3 Mudd pack limited time choice options. Rebuy as many times as you want till you unlock them all. Every time you run the Mudd bundle sale just add 3 new old ships to it. Then you never again have to hear people say... if I wanted 50 keys I would just buy 50 keys.
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    evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    In exchange, game gets funded

    I don't have any issues with Mudd Bundles, I own several, but I just can't see how this bundle will sell well enough simply because many people already have these ships account unlocked from the anniversary events. Previous Mudd bundles sold well because they are the only way to get account unlocked Lobi and gamble ships, this bundle on the other hand has a significantly smaller market due to it consisting of ships that a significant portion of the playerbase already obtained for free.
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    proteus#8097 proteus Member Posts: 223 Arc User
    or add the account-wide phoenix ship token like they had for one event (or was it a giveaway?) on console.
    Now there's an idea that just might pique my interest, even though I already have the Alliance ships.

    I may well buy this bundle at the 50% sale price point if I could choose three account-wide Epic Phoenix ship tokens instead of anything else in it. It would effectively be the same deal as choosing all the Alliance ships. Three old event ships...except of my choice instead. I'd certainly consider it.
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,544 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    husanakx wrote: »
    Imagine being the player that has two of these and wants the third.

    This would be me. I, unfortunately, missed out on the Jarok. I will be acquiring it. And while I am happy to be able to get it as a Mudd's account unlock, I'm not entirely thrilled that I'll have to spend a bit extra for other items that I wouldn't have otherwise purchased at this time.

    It would definitely be a better pack if there were other good choices in it -- like 75 keys instead of 50, or 2 Phoenix tokens not 1 or the actual zero (since it's a single-character token), or add the account-wide phoenix ship token like they had for one event (or was it a giveaway?) on console.

    You know you make actually an interesting point.
    What if Cryptic made this a 6 ship pack instead.

    This would allow people that only need one of these like baddmoon to buy the one event ship and grab a couple other old lockbox ships. It would allow people that really did want all 3 event ships to still get them like they could anyway. It would also allow people that maybe only want one of these event ships even if they didn't have them to mix in a couple other ships.

    I know I said I hated the 4 ship pack... but that was because it forced a hard choice or double buy. Most people do not need these event ships at all and would just select the other 3 ships. People that say hey I want that nice carrier click console I grab that and something else.

    Another crazy idea. Mix one of the lowest selling ships from 3 of the previous mudd packs and add them as options.

    Hell Cryptic you wanna really really make money on a pack like this... make it a choose 3 from 9 items. Ya do it... add 6 ships the 3 events you wanna try and sell, 3 old ships... and the 3 filler choices. You would sell more... but not because people would spend more then they other wise would. You would just have more fence sitters say hey look this personal 3 choice pic would work for me here is my money.

    In fact Cryptic why don't you just get super crazy.... sell one mudd bundle only ever. Treat it like an Event box. When the sale is on... pay your 14,750 and choose any of the 3 Mudd pack limited time choice options. Rebuy as many times as you want till you unlock them all. Every time you run the Mudd bundle sale just add 3 new old ships to it. Then you never again have to hear people say... if I wanted 50 keys I would just buy 50 keys.

    I like those ideas. More choices would, in my not-a-marketing-guy view, sell a lot more of these bundles to people who right now are going to say no.
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    horridpersonhorridperson Member Posts: 665 Arc User
    I have to agree with a number of the posters about the value and "exclusivity" of the prize ships on offer. At a comparable price point I was on board for the Kelvin ships. It's not the price, but the lack lustre offering. For the simple act of grinding an event all of those ships could have been yours. Who doesn't own them. People who are new to the game and people who felt they weren't worth grinding for. That's not a strong market and the perceived value of a grindable ship is negligible compared to something like the Kelvin ship set. Try again with those those nice looking TOS inspired vessels. They look awesome and I have all sorts of TOS characters beyond the ones I have some of those ships for. Additionally you will get min maxer sales for that console on the proto dread. A price tag can look palatable, or a joke depending on what it's on.
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    ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,571 Arc User
    I suspect this may also be a test of whether the Super Mega Bundle concept will work (sell) with 3 ship Bundles. I own all Event Ships
    (and everything else) as Account Unlocks so this Bundle means nothing to me.

    There is not enough value in any of these Bundles for the added fluff. There is not enough of those whatevers to be worthwhile. As I have all Event Ships already, an Epic Phoenix Token is worthless, What, for 8 stunted Phoenix Upgrades?

    A repeat of the Christmas 2020 Mudd's Bundles 75% off sale would be great as is the ideas of putting all Mudd's Ships into a Choice Mudd's Bundle and let you pick three.from it.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
    Judge Dan Haywood
    'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
    l don't know.
    l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
    That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
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    saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,401 Arc User
    No matter how you mix your choices, the bundle is vastly overpriced in every way, even with the 50% discount. And I won't even talk about the Mega version that is an insult to common sense.

    The Mudd's Fighter bundle was already severely stretching the level of tolerance because it was still account-wide versions of expensive lockbox ships, but in this one, there is absolutely nothing justifying the price. Nothing.
    #TASforSTO
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    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,152 Community Moderator
    The Devs have heard the feedback.
    Not sure what will come from it, but they heard. Now... only time will tell, so lets not go bashing anyone over it. The voices have been heard.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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    missmel#5308 missmel Member Posts: 99 Arc User
    They have heard, let's hope they listen
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    xstaythirstyxxstaythirstyx Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    Not sure what to make of this new bundle, this may just be they are trying something new and testing the waters with the new players. So the issue here is the divide between the value of the EPIC Phoenix token that has a horrible drop rate, and the special MUDD store single ship tab.

    If the Bundle offer at least 10 event ships, then it might be worth its weight in gold, like the 10th anniversary bundle
    [SIGPIC] [/SIGPIC]
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,544 Arc User
    edited March 2023
    They have heard, let's hope they listen

    There was at least one earlier bundle that they upgraded based on negative feedback, so it does happen.

    (Don't ask me which one, it's been awhile and there have been so many bundles.)

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    saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,401 Arc User
    edited March 2023
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The Devs have heard the feedback.
    Not sure what will come from it, but they heard. Now... only time will tell, so lets not go bashing anyone over it. The voices have been heard.
    A certain company that holds the rights to a certain IP about dragons and dungeons also heard feedback.

    Still took them more than one "try" and constant feedback until they officially caved in.

    Feedback doesn't end until meaningful changes are made.
    #TASforSTO
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    davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,544 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The Devs have heard the feedback.
    Not sure what will come from it, but they heard. Now... only time will tell, so lets not go bashing anyone over it. The voices have been heard.
    A certain company that holds the rights to a certain IP about dragons and dungeons also heard feedback.

    Still took them more than one "try" and constant feedback until they officially caved in.

    Feedback doesn't end until meaningful changes are made.

    We need to see what they change before grabbing a fresh supply of torches and pitchforks.
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    crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,115 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The Devs have heard the feedback.
    Not sure what will come from it, but they heard. Now... only time will tell, so lets not go bashing anyone over it. The voices have been heard.
    A certain company that holds the rights to a certain IP about dragons and dungeons also heard feedback.

    Still took them more than one "try" and constant feedback until they officially caved in.

    Feedback doesn't end until meaningful changes are made.
    Yeah, the feedback said certain company responded to was various players canceling a certain subscription they had.
    ^^^
    I don't know of a for profit company that DOESN'T respond to that type of feedback.

    So yeah, the best way to make yourself 'heard' is stop spending real money towards STO and also stop doing ANYTHING that also supports the in game economy. Get enough other STO players to join you and I guarantee Cryptic will do something to 'listen' in response.

    Anything else is just white noise to them.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
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