* SPOILERS * Fujiwhara Effect

colonelmarik · January 2023

Ok, I'm playing this now, and had to stop to post this.

So the Other thingy digitizes JUPITER? The whole planet? Do the developers not have ANYONE with any knowledge of science working for them? Do they not realize the catastrophic effects removing a gravity source as gigantic as JUPITER from the solar system?

My ability to suspend my disbelief has be completely destroyed. This has passed into utter absurdity.

baddmoonrizin · January 2023

Apparently, you never saw Star Trek: The Motion Picture 🙄

foxman00 · January 2023

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

Apparently, you never saw Star Trek: The Motion Picture 🙄

And it also wasnt like the planets were missing for weeks/months. At most it was a couple of hours.

dvonluck · January 2023

For all we know the effects on the solar sytem would have been catastrophic but it came back so dont know

baddmoonrizin · January 2023

First of all, calm yourself. It's only a game, and it's science fiction. Ceti Alpha VI's explosion sent out a shockwave, a definite force, that could significantly act upon and shift Ceti Alpha V's orbit. Jupiter and Mars were simply removed. Any changes their sudden absence might have rendered upon the solar system would take time to be felt and actually have any significant effect. Fortunately, they were returned before any such changes could have occurred.

phoenixc · January 2023

Depending on where everything is even a few minutes (or even seconds) could set off a catastrophic chain of events, let alone a few hours. On the other hand, I suppose V'ger (if it is still there, I have not done the mission yet) would be able to calculate and do whatever is required with all the dependencies to fix it all, though it is still a stretch.

foxman00 · January 2023

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

First of all, calm yourself. It's only a game, and it's science fiction. Ceti Alpha VI's explosion sent out a shockwave, a definite force, that could significantly act upon and shift Ceti Alpha V's orbit. Jupiter and Mars were simply removed. Any changes their sudden absence might have rendered upon the solar system would take time to be felt and actually have any significant effect. Fortunately, they were returned before any such changes could have occurred.

And even if some effects were to happen in those few hours. We had two 12th power entities fixing stuff afterwards. Reverting any ill effect from the planets removal would have been childs play for them (which in itself is scary as all hell

)

darkbladejk · January 2023

Just saying guys, we have access to iconian tech through the dyson spheres now. not unreasonable to assume we plugged everything into a computer there and change stuff. Simply turning off the gravity of those planets isn't going to just start flinging things out of place magically. it would take time to do so, and alot longer than a few hours. Could the start of those effects potentially be felt after a few hours, maybe. But that's a big what if. Seriously with all the crazy tech we have access to by extension now it's not unreasonable to assume that if there were issues, they tech teched their way out of those issues. If we can control the weather, terraform entire planets, mess with gateways/wormholes that can move you across the galaxy like crossing a room, mess with Dyson Spheres as large as earth's orbit around the sun, among other things, I believe we can cheese a few things here.

spiritborn · January 2023

colonelmarik wrote: »

Ok, got to the end of it.

So, my first reaction was likely a bit hasty. The planets were restored, and probably before the gravitational effects would have become significant. I do wonder though, that this was possible. When Ilia was digitized in TMP, we were told she "no longer functioned." However, a probe was constructed that looked exactly like her, and might even have come to behave like her in time. Does that mean Jupiter, Mars and all the people in the ships and stations are all copies?

the probe version of Ilia was made to be a copy of the original. So fully restoring something that was digitized could have always possible but V'Ger chose not to do so before.

We know so little about how V'Ger functions that it's not wise to give limits yet (sure it has those but we have no idea as to what those limits are) and quite frankly I like it that way, all too often in Star Trek (and to some extent scifi in general) the story goes out of its way to explain and quantify everything like the story is afraid of there being something that's unknown or mysterious.

That's something I like about Star Wars is that thanks to the Force there's always a degree of mystery in the story and it doesn't become too mundane.

leemwatson · January 2023

colonelmarik wrote: »

Ok, got to the end of it.

So, my first reaction was likely a bit hasty. The planets were restored, and probably before the gravitational effects would have become significant. I do wonder though, that this was possible. When Ilia was digitized in TMP, we were told she "no longer functioned." However, a probe was constructed that looked exactly like her, and might even have come to behave like her in time. Does that mean Jupiter, Mars and all the people in the ships and stations are all copies?

I thought the visuals were first rate. The look of the V'Ger ships and clouds was pretty excellent. I also thought the sound design was very good. I thought Wil Wheaton sounded like he was having a BLAST with his Emperor Wesley role, but Gates sounded a little bored at times. All in all, pretty decent mechanically.

The only real issue I have is this ongoing trend to having unbelieveably VAST armadas of ships all the time. I know, that's the game now, but I miss the days when a single enemy was meant to be somewhat challenging.

I'll give this one a 3/5. Not bad. Not great, but not bad.

I should also say, thanks for adding the SPOILERS tag to the title. I should have done that.

Yeah...a bit hasty. The effect of having Jupiter removed wouldn't have been 'visible' until another major body was in conjuction with it, although it's unlikely any planet was in Jupiter's gravitational influence.(which we can actually calculate today if that was the case). That being said......it's moons should have been flung off in every direction once Jupiter had digitized.....but they were probably digitized too, before we head-canon that loophole. Mars' removal wouldn't affect the orbits of any other body than it's own moons, thanksfully.

My ONLY bug-bear is Mirror Crusher's extensive plastic surgery.

phoenixc · January 2023

leemwatson wrote: »

colonelmarik wrote: »

Ok, got to the end of it.

So, my first reaction was likely a bit hasty. The planets were restored, and probably before the gravitational effects would have become significant. I do wonder though, that this was possible. When Ilia was digitized in TMP, we were told she "no longer functioned." However, a probe was constructed that looked exactly like her, and might even have come to behave like her in time. Does that mean Jupiter, Mars and all the people in the ships and stations are all copies?

I thought the visuals were first rate. The look of the V'Ger ships and clouds was pretty excellent. I also thought the sound design was very good. I thought Wil Wheaton sounded like he was having a BLAST with his Emperor Wesley role, but Gates sounded a little bored at times. All in all, pretty decent mechanically.

The only real issue I have is this ongoing trend to having unbelieveably VAST armadas of ships all the time. I know, that's the game now, but I miss the days when a single enemy was meant to be somewhat challenging.

I'll give this one a 3/5. Not bad. Not great, but not bad.

I should also say, thanks for adding the SPOILERS tag to the title. I should have done that.

Yeah...a bit hasty. The effect of having Jupiter removed wouldn't have been 'visible' until another major body was in conjuction with it, although it's unlikely any planet was in Jupiter's gravitational influence.(which we can actually calculate today if that was the case). That being said......it's moons should have been flung off in every direction once Jupiter had digitized.....but they were probably digitized too, before we head-canon that loophole. Mars' removal wouldn't affect the orbits of any other body than it's own moons, thanksfully.

My ONLY bug-bear is Mirror Crusher's extensive plastic surgery.

Not quite.

For instance, Mars and (especially) Jupiter are what corrals all the asteroids in that relitively narrow band between them. The moment they disappeared (assuming that gravity is instantaneous, rather than having a finite travel time) thousands of those rocks would have in essence changed course and would have continued moving out of place during the whole time.

That means that when the gravity of the two planets was reinstated they have a subtly different effect on them which means that all bets are off as to how they will move after that. It is further complicated by things like possible asteroid-asteroid collisions that would not have happened without the interruption, and all that could eventually wreck someone's day by dropping a few megatons of asteroid in their lap unexpectedly since it would invalidate all previous course plotting for the asteroids.

And depending on where Saturn and the other planets were even that short period without Jupiter's gravity could have set something undesirable in motion on that scale too, though that would probably take a long time for the possible disaster to come to roost.

That is the thing that people often fail to take into account in dynamic systems, that it doesn't take a huge amount of change to upset a dynamic balance, and it can have chain reactions that continue long after the initial disturbance.

leemwatson · January 2023

phoenixc#0738 wrote: »

leemwatson wrote: »

colonelmarik wrote: »

Ok, got to the end of it.

So, my first reaction was likely a bit hasty. The planets were restored, and probably before the gravitational effects would have become significant. I do wonder though, that this was possible. When Ilia was digitized in TMP, we were told she "no longer functioned." However, a probe was constructed that looked exactly like her, and might even have come to behave like her in time. Does that mean Jupiter, Mars and all the people in the ships and stations are all copies?

I thought the visuals were first rate. The look of the V'Ger ships and clouds was pretty excellent. I also thought the sound design was very good. I thought Wil Wheaton sounded like he was having a BLAST with his Emperor Wesley role, but Gates sounded a little bored at times. All in all, pretty decent mechanically.

The only real issue I have is this ongoing trend to having unbelieveably VAST armadas of ships all the time. I know, that's the game now, but I miss the days when a single enemy was meant to be somewhat challenging.

I'll give this one a 3/5. Not bad. Not great, but not bad.

I should also say, thanks for adding the SPOILERS tag to the title. I should have done that.

Yeah...a bit hasty. The effect of having Jupiter removed wouldn't have been 'visible' until another major body was in conjuction with it, although it's unlikely any planet was in Jupiter's gravitational influence.(which we can actually calculate today if that was the case). That being said......it's moons should have been flung off in every direction once Jupiter had digitized.....but they were probably digitized too, before we head-canon that loophole. Mars' removal wouldn't affect the orbits of any other body than it's own moons, thanksfully.

My ONLY bug-bear is Mirror Crusher's extensive plastic surgery.

Not quite.

For instance, Mars and (especially) Jupiter are what corrals all the asteroids in that relitively narrow band between them. The moment they disappeared (assuming that gravity is instantaneous, rather than having a finite travel time) thousands of those rocks would have in essence changed course and would have continued moving out of place during the whole time.

That means that when the gravity of the two planets was reinstated they have a subtly different effect on them which means that all bets are off as to how they will move after that. It is further complicated by things like possible asteroid-asteroid collisions that would not have happened without the interruption, and all that could eventually wreck someone's day by dropping a few megatons of asteroid in their lap unexpectedly since it would invalidate all previous course plotting for the asteroids.

And depending on where Saturn and the other planets were even that short period without Jupiter's gravity could have set something undesirable in motion on that scale too, though that would probably take a long time for the possible disaster to come to roost.

That is the thing that people often fail to take into account in dynamic systems, that it doesn't take a huge amount of change to upset a dynamic balance, and it can have chain reactions that continue long after the initial disturbance.

Quite true. but Mar's gravitational field is barely 0.4g compared to Juptier's 2.5g. Jupiter is the 'marshal' of the asteroid belt, Mars only has the occasional interaction though.

fleetcaptain5 · January 2023

Wesley mentioned that he had powers that allowed him to traverse distance and time instantly. After having partially merged with the Other, it may have been possible for him to restore Mars, Jupiter and everything else to the same point in time when they went missing - so that they were never gone at all.

Koren mentioned that for her, no time had passed at all since re-appearing. Maybe that's to be taken literally.

I wonder if Q exists in the mirror universe, btw. God-like powers seem pretty rare there.

fleetcaptain5 · January 2023

As for the episode as a whole: I liked the Breach-like flight, although it would have been better if they had used a mechanic that allows your ship to keep flying at full speed. The constant interruptions kind of broke the flow and sense of urgency.

I also liked the references to older content, including Shon's remarks about Koren. I lol'ed there.

With that being said: overall the episode didn't feel that great. Sure, beaming in to find a gathering that included the heads of state and almost all legendary captains, combined with the phased fight around Jupiter, then Mars and then Earth meant that you got the feeling the stakes were really high. Almost Iconian-level high, although that arc took more time to build up the threat in my opinion.

However, the moment the Bortasqu, Jupiter Station and the planet itself got digitised, I knew this was basically our 'Year of Hell', or a big reset button. I stopped caring about what happened after that, because I just knew (ok, expected) everything to be restored anyway. So yeah, it made things far less exciting and kind of anti-climatic.

And, to make just one more comparison to the Iconian War: someone once noticed here how the conclusion of that conflict was basically like grandma L'Miren finally putting on her glasses and realising that one of the insects they had been fighting, had in fact helped her all those thousands of years ago.
That's what I was reminded of when the emperor-child that just wiped out three planets was treated like a naughty kid who had stolen a (or even my digital?) cookie and deserved to be sent to his room for a few hours to think about what he had done. And even that didn't happen.

Everything that was digitised may have been restored, but what about all the personnel at Jupiter station that were either killed or turned into Borg drones? What about all those ships - on both sides - that got destroyed and their crews killed in not just this fight but all other ones too?

The ending seemed kind of lame to me. Basically, it boiled down to Crusher realising she hadn't raised her kid well so V'Ger was going to have a shot at it. Nevermind all the deaths he caused before that.

saurializard · January 2023

fleetcaptain5#1134 wrote: »

However, the moment the Bortasqu, Jupiter Station and the planet itself got digitised, I knew this was basically our 'Year of Hell', or a big reset button. I stopped caring about what happened after that, because I just knew (ok, expected) everything to be restored anyway. So yeah, it made things far less exciting and kind of anti-climatic.

IMO, the fact they got digitized isn't the issue there, it's how it was handled: suddenly, and with zero fuzz.

It would have been nice if the cutscenes were like you get overwhelmed by the volleys of bolts despite you best efforts (instead of them just showing up and hitting their targets with no-one trying to stop them) and everyone was horrified you lost the flagship of one of the main factions and you warp away because you lost badly.

But nope, bolts hit them, they get digitized without any feeling and everyone gives ZERO f*ck about losing the best of the best like that and warp away simply because "well, nothing more to see here, shame".

This completely telegraphed this wasn't going to stick and be resolved in the same episode.

Compare this to the Infinity War movies.
You knew the deaths weren't going to stick, because heh, sequels about snapped heroes were in plans and announced already and well, it's a comic book series: almost nobody ever stays dead.
BUT, at least you got the feeling of a crushing defeat, everyone looked in horror and disbelief as people vanished around them, Iron Man watched his son figure die while being unable to do anything, while now-unmanned vehicles crashed, all while Thanos boasted the heroes missed their one chance. And even in the beginning of the second movie, it still feels a bit dire and hopeless because it doesn't get resolved before years.
It was guaranteed this would be resolved in a way eventually, but it still stung enough to leave an impact and viewers wondering how this was gonna get solved.

Here, there is nothing, just a "oh no. anyway" sensation.
And there is also the blog about the anniversary ship which literally spoils how digitization is actually not permanent and can even be used at your advantage.

On another note, enough of villains with "sympathetic" backstories who get spared in the end, give us some Puss in Boots' Big Jack Horner-style villains like Hakeev was. Pure evil, no redeeming qualities, cathartic death yet entertaining enough to partly root for them.

rattler2 · January 2023

Uh... they really had no time to react to all that. It was constant crisis mode for everyone involved. And as trained officers they would be focusing on what they need to do, not who they just lost and probably hesitating long enough to get zapped themselves.

leemwatson · January 2023

saurializard wrote: »

fleetcaptain5#1134 wrote: »

However, the moment the Bortasqu, Jupiter Station and the planet itself got digitised, I knew this was basically our 'Year of Hell', or a big reset button. I stopped caring about what happened after that, because I just knew (ok, expected) everything to be restored anyway. So yeah, it made things far less exciting and kind of anti-climatic.

IMO, the fact they got digitized isn't the issue there, it's how it was handled: suddenly, and with zero fuzz.

It would have been nice if the cutscenes were like you get overwhelmed by the volleys of bolts despite you best efforts (instead of them just showing up and hitting their targets with no-one trying to stop them) and everyone was horrified you lost the flagship of one of the main factions and you warp away because you lost badly.

But nope, bolts hit them, they get digitized without any feeling and everyone gives ZERO f*ck about losing the best of the best like that and warp away simply because "well, nothing more to see here, shame".

This completely telegraphed this wasn't going to stick and be resolved in the same episode.

Compare this to the Infinity War movies.
You knew the deaths weren't going to stick, because heh, sequels about snapped heroes were in plans and announced already and well, it's a comic book series: almost nobody ever stays dead.
BUT, at least you got the feeling of a crushing defeat, everyone looked in horror and disbelief as people vanished around them, Iron Man watched his son figure die while being unable to do anything, while now-unmanned vehicles crashed, all while Thanos boasted the heroes missed their one chance. And even in the beginning of the second movie, it still feels a bit dire and hopeless because it doesn't get resolved before years.
It was guaranteed this would be resolved in a way eventually, but it still stung enough to leave an impact and viewers wondering how this was gonna get solved.

Here, there is nothing, just a "oh no. anyway" sensation.
And there is also the blog about the anniversary ship which literally spoils how digitization is actually not permanent and can even be used at your advantage.

On another note, enough of villains with "sympathetic" backstories who get spared in the end, give us some Puss in Boots' Big Jack Horner-style villains like Hakeev was. Pure evil, no redeeming qualities, cathartic death yet entertaining enough to partly root for them.

As Rattler says, they are trained to not react in the moment. Had they stopped to react, they'd have been digitised. For example, I've been doing Martial Arts for 3 decades; the reaction to being hit and feeling pain is almost completely supressed...helped by the fact I already had a high pain tolerance. We don't have time to react in such a manner in combat. As we find out when Deanna is taking her Commander exam "The crews first duty is to the ship."

saurializard · January 2023

rattler2 wrote: »

Uh... they really had no time to react to all that. It was constant crisis mode for everyone involved. And as trained officers they would be focusing on what they need to do, not who they just lost and probably hesitating long enough to get zapped themselves.

There is a difference between being stoic and being devoid of emotions, especially when you just witnessed an entire planet, a station and several ships getting vaporized in an instant.

I don't expect character to wangst about it like Anakin Skywalker being denied a promotion, but I expect something that'd make me believe the stakes are high as hell instead of making me instantly go "oh so reset button it is, then".

Heck, even some parts of the Iconian War handled it better, like when the first Starbase and the Archive were lost and the aftermath of the ill-fated assault on the Dyson Sphere.

I'd have even accepted a simple Saavik-like "Damn...".

solidshark214 · January 2023

fleetcaptain5#1134 wrote: »

As for the episode as a whole: I liked the Breach-like flight, although it would have been better if they had used a mechanic that allows your ship to keep flying at full speed. The constant interruptions kind of broke the flow and sense of urgency.

I also liked the references to older content, including Shon's remarks about Koren. I lol'ed there.

With that being said: overall the episode didn't feel that great. Sure, beaming in to find a gathering that included the heads of state and almost all legendary captains, combined with the phased fight around Jupiter, then Mars and then Earth meant that you got the feeling the stakes were really high. Almost Iconian-level high, although that arc took more time to build up the threat in my opinion.

However, the moment the Bortasqu, Jupiter Station and the planet itself got digitised, I knew this was basically our 'Year of Hell', or a big reset button. I stopped caring about what happened after that, because I just knew (ok, expected) everything to be restored anyway. So yeah, it made things far less exciting and kind of anti-climatic.

And, to make just one more comparison to the Iconian War: someone once noticed here how the conclusion of that conflict was basically like grandma L'Miren finally putting on her glasses and realising that one of the insects they had been fighting, had in fact helped her all those thousands of years ago.
That's what I was reminded of when the emperor-child that just wiped out three planets was treated like a naughty kid who had stolen a (or even my digital?) cookie and deserved to be sent to his room for a few hours to think about what he had done. And even that didn't happen.

Everything that was digitised may have been restored, but what about all the personnel at Jupiter station that were either killed or turned into Borg drones? What about all those ships - on both sides - that got destroyed and their crews killed in not just this fight but all other ones too?

The ending seemed kind of lame to me. Basically, it boiled down to Crusher realising she hadn't raised her kid well so V'Ger was going to have a shot at it. Nevermind all the deaths he caused before that.

That's basically how it felt for me, too. Bortasqu? I could believe they'd kill off the ship and Koren. Jupiter? Nope. That's the moment the inevitable Reset Button became obvious, and killed all dramatic tension for me. I can live with well-done reset buttons, sometimes, but this one was just too blatantly telegraphed.

And the ending boiling down to "We win because even Mirror Wesley is a Momma's Boy"? I'm torn between annoyed at how anticlimactic it is and laughing at how appropriate it is for Wesley. Either way, I don't think it's quite the impact the writer's intended.

The gameplay was a definite breath of fresh air, after way too many missions of being forced to use characters and ships other than my own carefully-designed setups. But the story was... not impressive.

fleetcaptain5 · January 2023

solidshark214 wrote: »

fleetcaptain5#1134 wrote: »

As for the episode as a whole: I liked the Breach-like flight, although it would have been better if they had used a mechanic that allows your ship to keep flying at full speed. The constant interruptions kind of broke the flow and sense of urgency.

I also liked the references to older content, including Shon's remarks about Koren. I lol'ed there.

With that being said: overall the episode didn't feel that great. Sure, beaming in to find a gathering that included the heads of state and almost all legendary captains, combined with the phased fight around Jupiter, then Mars and then Earth meant that you got the feeling the stakes were really high. Almost Iconian-level high, although that arc took more time to build up the threat in my opinion.

However, the moment the Bortasqu, Jupiter Station and the planet itself got digitised, I knew this was basically our 'Year of Hell', or a big reset button. I stopped caring about what happened after that, because I just knew (ok, expected) everything to be restored anyway. So yeah, it made things far less exciting and kind of anti-climatic.

And, to make just one more comparison to the Iconian War: someone once noticed here how the conclusion of that conflict was basically like grandma L'Miren finally putting on her glasses and realising that one of the insects they had been fighting, had in fact helped her all those thousands of years ago.
That's what I was reminded of when the emperor-child that just wiped out three planets was treated like a naughty kid who had stolen a (or even my digital?) cookie and deserved to be sent to his room for a few hours to think about what he had done. And even that didn't happen.

Everything that was digitised may have been restored, but what about all the personnel at Jupiter station that were either killed or turned into Borg drones? What about all those ships - on both sides - that got destroyed and their crews killed in not just this fight but all other ones too?

The ending seemed kind of lame to me. Basically, it boiled down to Crusher realising she hadn't raised her kid well so V'Ger was going to have a shot at it. Nevermind all the deaths he caused before that.

That's basically how it felt for me, too. Bortasqu? I could believe they'd kill off the ship and Koren. Jupiter? Nope. That's the moment the inevitable Reset Button became obvious, and killed all dramatic tension for me. I can live with well-done reset buttons, sometimes, but this one was just too blatantly telegraphed.

And the ending boiling down to "We win because even Mirror Wesley is a Momma's Boy"? I'm torn between annoyed at how anticlimactic it is and laughing at how appropriate it is for Wesley. Either way, I don't think it's quite the impact the writer's intended.

The gameplay was a definite breath of fresh air, after way too many missions of being forced to use characters and ships other than my own carefully-designed setups. But the story was... not impressive.

Good summary.

They wanted us to believe that this would be the biggest fight we'd ever see, bigger even than the Iconian War, which was already sold as the biggest conflict the galaxy had ever seen. Even the heads of state of the other powers were gathered at ESD, despite this being rather pointless - but certainly not without political risks if they got killed.
That shows that it was more than a show of solidarity. It was a message that they realised that everything would be lost anyway if Earth and the Federation fell and Crusher wasn't stopped.

Stakes: higher than ever before, higher than they'll probably ever will be.
But not only does the episode quickly convey the exact opposite message (nothing will matter, cause everything will be reset), it's also like nothing Crusher did in general has ever mattered.

fleetcaptain5 · January 2023

And sure, it may be a very Star Trek-like solution to not punish your enemy, to teach them a lesson instead and forget everything bad they did. But when you're talking about taking thousands or even tens of thousands of lives before you've even begun wiping out entire planets and civilisations?
There is a point where the willingness to forgive and forget gets silly and the requirements to suspend one's disbelief unreasonable, even when you're telling a Trek story. More importantly, it doesn't combine well with the effort of trying to tell the reader/player that what is happening actually matters.

Not least because with stories and characters like these, one could even see a scenario where the main characters claim 'oh, well, everything was lost; Earth, the Federation, the Klingon Empire, the entire Mirror Universe. But hey, at least we didn't have to kick the poor emperor-man-child causing all of that in the face when we finally got the chance and ensure he'd never ever even get close to trying again'.

It just seems so contradictory, to build up a story where you show that everything is at risk - and then everything is quickly forgiven and forgotten.

jonsills · January 2023

phoenixc#0738 wrote: »

(assuming that gravity is instantaneous, rather than having a finite travel time)

The propagation rate of gravity is approximately equal to the speed of light. This was demonstrated in 2017, when observers detected the impact of two neutron stars (about 130 million lightyears away, thankfully) at about the same time the gravity waves from the collision were detected.

nrobbiec · January 2023

I wonder who the emperor was that Wesley killed off, I was hoping it would name drop him but it never did.

I also feel the ISS Voyager should have been called the ISS Conqueror. More Terrany name and the parallels would have been nice.

Excited for the next story arc. Only 4 months to wait for another hour of content.

vetteguy904 · January 2023

TBH? they SHOULD have split this into at least 2 episodes, and ended the first with the "death" of the Bort. a sudden shock through the fleet, a shaky fall back to mars, the black screen with To Be Continued.......

and then this thread would be a firepit of Koren CAN'T be dead..

as it was, when the Bort got hit I was like ok, maybe the voice actress has parted ways.. I did not notice the PLANET being digitized. then the Leiset bought the farm and I was ok.... Reset in 3,2,1..

vetteguy904 · January 2023

saurializard wrote: »

rattler2 wrote: »

Uh... they really had no time to react to all that. It was constant crisis mode for everyone involved. And as trained officers they would be focusing on what they need to do, not who they just lost and probably hesitating long enough to get zapped themselves.

There is a difference between being stoic and being devoid of emotions, especially when you just witnessed an entire planet, a station and several ships getting vaporized in an instant.

I don't expect character to wangst about it like Anakin Skywalker being denied a promotion, but I expect something that'd make me believe the stakes are high as hell instead of making me instantly go "oh so reset button it is, then".

Heck, even some parts of the Iconian War handled it better, like when the first Starbase and the Archive were lost and the aftermath of the ill-fated assault on the Dyson Sphere.

I'd have even accepted a simple Saavik-like "Damn...".

and it's not like we haven't seen it before.. Gomez and Laforge when they ran across the Borg, for example. and the STO crews have displayed shock to far less

vesh20 · January 2023

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

First of all, calm yourself. It's only a game, and it's science fiction. Ceti Alpha VI's explosion sent out a shockwave, a definite force, that could significantly act upon and shift Ceti Alpha V's orbit. Jupiter and Mars were simply removed. Any changes their sudden absence might have rendered upon the solar system would take time to be felt and actually have any significant effect. Fortunately, they were returned before any such changes could have occurred.

And it's possible also that The Other carry with himself Gravity Force that didn't allow the solar system collapse after removing Jupiter and Mars.

rattler2 · January 2023

nrobbiec wrote: »

I also feel the ISS Voyager should have been called the ISS Conqueror. More Terrany name and the parallels would have been nice.

But then it wouldn't be a direct counterpart to the USS Voyager. While an ISS Enterprise is canon, and we can probably assume the ISS Defiant is the same one that was built in DS9... they probably used the comics as inspiration for the ISS Voyager.

spiritborn · January 2023

vesh20 wrote: »

baddmoonrizin wrote: »

First of all, calm yourself. It's only a game, and it's science fiction. Ceti Alpha VI's explosion sent out a shockwave, a definite force, that could significantly act upon and shift Ceti Alpha V's orbit. Jupiter and Mars were simply removed. Any changes their sudden absence might have rendered upon the solar system would take time to be felt and actually have any significant effect. Fortunately, they were returned before any such changes could have occurred.

And it's possible also that The Other carry with himself Gravity Force that didn't allow the solar system collapse after removing Jupiter and Mars.

We also had V'Ger show up so it's possible it was holding the Solar system intact until the mess could be fixed.

Honestly you'll probably think me a heretic for this but I think the ending was best we could have gotten, with a " We killed Emperor Crusher before chopping him into 1 kg bits just to sate our bloodlust and hatred for the character" would have been far less satisfying in the long run as it would have still left the "Other" as potential threat or dealt with it with a handwave, At least with V'Ger there another being of similar power level who can force the "Other" to back down and having Crusher give up instead of getting killed showed the "Other" there's a way besides violence.

*** SPOILERS *** Fujiwhara Effect

Comments

* SPOILERS * Fujiwhara Effect