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A returning player's review on the current state of PvP
paratubasilisk
Member Posts: 36 Arc User
It's not great... queues are completely dead, and only a few ppl are in the kerrat system sometimes, mostly due to the fact that there is a small, dedicated player base with a few good people in it keeping it alive. but the question is why is this player base so small?... several years ago when i played this game there was a lot of activity in the pvp queues... so what happened? I think that the interest in pvp as good end-game content is def still there, but many ppl dont like how it works now, and many of those that still want to do it dont have the money to get the overpowered skills and ships that you need to be able to compete in pvp now. personally i used to really like the pvp in this game, but after a little research and talking to the current pvpers and non-pvpers i can def see why interest has declined. if the devs are at all interested in helping revive the queues of this once very popular aspect of the game, i would like to point out the 2 main problems i see with pvp right now, and quick, easy ways to fix them...
1. Intel Team. basically every pvper uses 2x of this skill, except maybe for some tank healers, that's how overpowered it is right now. unless you're a tank, you need 2x intel team to have a chance in pvp against the ppl that are using 2x of them. first off, this severly limits people's choices in pvp since they have to pick an intel ship, and ppl really like choices and variety. second, the way this makes the game work when everyone is using it makes it no fun for a lot of ppl, because used in combo with everything else in the game, it means that ships are only targetable for a couple secs at a time. the entire constable skill set is known as garbage because u need 4 secs to lock onto your target and in pvp you usually can't target them for 4 secs. it's made the game so that everyone is flying around with cloaked ships that can fire, and only become targetable once every several secs for like 2 secs at a time with very tanky pvp ships. most people dont have fun when the game is like that. in order to change the pvp game back into a way that more people will enjoy, and at the same time give them more viable options for pvp builds and ship types, i would suggest changing intel team so that it only lasts for 3-4 secs, instead of lasting for 9 out of every 15 secs. when everyone in pvp has to use intel team to compete, it's too good. it's been long enough now, it really needs a nerf.
2. Pay-to-Win. I'll be blunt. the overpowered skills you need to buy in order to compete in pvp are way too expensive for most people to want to buy them just to be able to have a chance in pvp. for example, the skill from the risian corvette t6 ship is so overpowered that everyone i talk to says that you need it for any pvp escort. after looking at the skill i can see why. it's very overpowered compared to any other options out there. which might not be so bad, but this skill is $170. I am not going to pay that for a skill. i cant even pay that for 1 skill right now when it's on sale for "only" $40. and with zen being worth 500 dilithium now, it'll takes years just to get 1 skill. there needs to be another option for those that still want to compete in pvp, or the queues will remain dead. a quick fix for this would be to take all the good expensive pvp skills that are out right now for hundreds of dollars, and make slightly less powerful free versions of them that are available to free-to-play (or ppl who can spend a little, but not that much) players. this way the expensive versions will still be sought after and be the best, but it will give everyone else something that will allow them to complete, even if they dont have the top stuff yet. as a new/returning player, it's a very hard sell to be told that you're going to need to buy hundreds of dollars worth of skills and ships along with months of your time training up skills, reputation, and resources, just to be able to compete in a pvp match and see if you like it.
pvp is one of the main forms of end-game content. a LOT of people are interested in doing it, they just want it to be fun, and they want to feel like they have a chance. right now the only current posts i saw about pvp was someone saying how much they hated doing it because they felt like they didnt have a chance. making players targetable for more than 2 secs at a time and making it so that players can at least get the basic skills needed to compete for free would go a LONG way into helping to revive this once thriving community.
oh, and also maybe buff up cannons a bit. the fact that all the ships that can equip cannons are all using beams in pvp is def a sign of an imbalance there. everyone just uses beam overload now...
I hope this helps. Thank you for your time.
1. Intel Team. basically every pvper uses 2x of this skill, except maybe for some tank healers, that's how overpowered it is right now. unless you're a tank, you need 2x intel team to have a chance in pvp against the ppl that are using 2x of them. first off, this severly limits people's choices in pvp since they have to pick an intel ship, and ppl really like choices and variety. second, the way this makes the game work when everyone is using it makes it no fun for a lot of ppl, because used in combo with everything else in the game, it means that ships are only targetable for a couple secs at a time. the entire constable skill set is known as garbage because u need 4 secs to lock onto your target and in pvp you usually can't target them for 4 secs. it's made the game so that everyone is flying around with cloaked ships that can fire, and only become targetable once every several secs for like 2 secs at a time with very tanky pvp ships. most people dont have fun when the game is like that. in order to change the pvp game back into a way that more people will enjoy, and at the same time give them more viable options for pvp builds and ship types, i would suggest changing intel team so that it only lasts for 3-4 secs, instead of lasting for 9 out of every 15 secs. when everyone in pvp has to use intel team to compete, it's too good. it's been long enough now, it really needs a nerf.
2. Pay-to-Win. I'll be blunt. the overpowered skills you need to buy in order to compete in pvp are way too expensive for most people to want to buy them just to be able to have a chance in pvp. for example, the skill from the risian corvette t6 ship is so overpowered that everyone i talk to says that you need it for any pvp escort. after looking at the skill i can see why. it's very overpowered compared to any other options out there. which might not be so bad, but this skill is $170. I am not going to pay that for a skill. i cant even pay that for 1 skill right now when it's on sale for "only" $40. and with zen being worth 500 dilithium now, it'll takes years just to get 1 skill. there needs to be another option for those that still want to compete in pvp, or the queues will remain dead. a quick fix for this would be to take all the good expensive pvp skills that are out right now for hundreds of dollars, and make slightly less powerful free versions of them that are available to free-to-play (or ppl who can spend a little, but not that much) players. this way the expensive versions will still be sought after and be the best, but it will give everyone else something that will allow them to complete, even if they dont have the top stuff yet. as a new/returning player, it's a very hard sell to be told that you're going to need to buy hundreds of dollars worth of skills and ships along with months of your time training up skills, reputation, and resources, just to be able to compete in a pvp match and see if you like it.
pvp is one of the main forms of end-game content. a LOT of people are interested in doing it, they just want it to be fun, and they want to feel like they have a chance. right now the only current posts i saw about pvp was someone saying how much they hated doing it because they felt like they didnt have a chance. making players targetable for more than 2 secs at a time and making it so that players can at least get the basic skills needed to compete for free would go a LONG way into helping to revive this once thriving community.
oh, and also maybe buff up cannons a bit. the fact that all the ships that can equip cannons are all using beams in pvp is def a sign of an imbalance there. everyone just uses beam overload now...
I hope this helps. Thank you for your time.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
"1. Intel Team."
You are right on spot that this is a problem, however some of thing things you mentioned lead me to think you do not realize how much of a problem it is, you can actually reduce the minimum CD of intel team to 10 seconds with a trait called "fresh from R&R" this gives the stealth you gain from intel team 90% up time, which you can keep with single copy of this skill as long as you have the following: photonic officer+borg intel team reset doff+The Boimler Effect, actually you might get away with just having a photonic and Boimler, as this should give you enough reset to just go 1 intel team.
Where intel teams really gain strength is when you combine it with some other things like superior subterfuge boff, exitus actus trait and lambda debuff, where intel team+superior subterfuge will work vs zero perception opponents and the complete combo practically makes you untargetable no matter how much perception your opponent have, but even if supposedly he flys a ship with the correct seatings and perception stacks and manages to get few shots on you on few occasion, these few shots are.. how do i put it... a troll sheet.
I had the following experiment with another player, we agreed to drop all untargetable and intel teams TRIBBLE and have a "clean duel", to my surprise we still weren't able to finish one another, it seems like placates and regen is enough annoyance by itself, if you add stealth and untargetable it only adds up to the totality of the troll experience.
"2. Pay-to-Win"
I agree with your points, the game have become too inaccessible to new players or some old ones who might want to try pvp and its not a problem of the zen store as much as it is the lack of stepping stones in between, a budged, accessible "rhythmic rumble" or other budged-options for new players to grab would be great.
There is something that you however missed and that is endevour level differences, which is massive abyss to overcome, you need to play probably year and half of dedicated hard play to come close or even the field which is a ridiculous and unrealistic requirement. Imagine if your opponent have 12% crit chance, 40% more shield hardness, 100% more hull regen 50% more critD, 25% more hull, 50% more energy damage, 25% more shields and many more, just passive advantage. There must be a way to catch up quickly and reasonably within few months of play but the current situation is absurd.
Overall:
I like your idea of shortening intel teams down to 3-4 secs, actually all team abilities last for 5seconds only the most cancerous one last for 9, i have suggestion in the past that the the intel teams stealth bonus works only in pve but i was mocked and ignored, if you succeed where i failed, ill be happy for you.
I think kael once said that pvp is "snake eating its own tail", if the mods are unwilling to communicate anything between pvp community and the devs then the link is cut, there is noway to get to the devs, they might as well be mislead to think that everything is perfectly ok missing the link to what the pvp community says. And Btw, actually it is quite the opposite, just releasing ships and bundles without providing any meaningful end-game gameplay is a snake eating its own tail, eventually people will say no to this meaninglessness and close their wallets.
(Flaming, trolling comments moderated out. - BMR)
PvP has been dead for many, many years, and even the dev's have 'admitted' there is no reasonable way of making people play pvp, especially after the Competitive queues bombed out worse than a point-blank supernova.....and folk really do not want PvP anyway, only a minority want to, backed up by the lack of support for it on any social-media and these forums, and your claim PvP is 'end-game' is presumptious, again because most folk don't want to play PvP. STO is a PvE game, with a 'minor' PvP aspect, and it was built that way for a reason and PvP never was the intention from comments that have been made. Games that have 'forced' PvP on to a PvE crowd never last. Even Elite:Dangerous allows you play in a solo/group only universe because of the toxicty PvP brings.
TFO and RTFO Queues are not dead. Queues are generally played as Random TFO's, so if you want a 10-man queue or PvP, you're gonna need a pre-made team for them. I'm pretty sure there's a dedicated channel somewhere you can get in on, if it still exists.
As for your P2W claim....nah. There is none, zero, nip-all, nothing. You don't win anything anyway. You can't perma-destroy anything, rob resources etc etc. This game lacks those basic requirements for even being considered P2W; just check Star Fleet Timelines and Command on mobile for the perfect examples of a true P2W PvP game.
The Intel Team is just the latest 'OP' thing in PvP, which may get a nerf, just like every other thing that PvP players say is 'OP'. It is a vicious, never-ending circle because PvP players will ALWAYS have a complaint about something too 'OP'.
This game's pull is story content, and the majority of folk want to play it in peace, that's why it has lasted so long, and story content takes priority in my eyes. Whilst ideas have been floated about having a 'PvP' tier stat for stuff, it's a whole bucket-load of work for very, very, very little pay-off. Story content and TFO's get log-ins, not PvP.
And lastly....cannons are really OP compared to beams. They don't work as they should either. They don't suffer from bleed-off as much as they should and they should have a shorter range than beams, but do more damage point-blank....and they certainly shouldn't have the weird 'homing' capability
Wrong section? He literally posted in the PVP section, so obviously it's in the right section. 🙄 You assume that just because a mod hadn't posted that we weren't reading it? We don't comment on every thread we read. 😏 And I take issue with your "all mods are vehemently anti-pvp" statement. I'm the longest serving mod on this forum and have never taken an anti-pvp stance. Also, we don't "make sure" that feedback never reaches the devs. We have no control of or way to control what they choose to read in the forum.
Wait. So, you're trying to rate PvP's current popularity based on number of comments in this subforum? Do you even realize how old most of those comments are and that there are fewer than half a dozen active threads in this subforum? Most of these threads are closed or would be if someone necros them. Your assessment doesn't take into account that there's barely any current activity here and that's what matters when making a determination. Despite what the PvP community (what's left of it) believes, PvP is not popular amongst the majority and they are not just "waiting to do PvP if it would only be improved."
All that being said, you're obviously free to discuss your ideas about PvP in the game, but we cannot allow blatant insults and accusations. So, please keep things civil. Thank you.
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Wait. So, you're trying to rate PvP's current popularity based on number of comments in this subforum? Do you even realize how old most of those comments are and that there are fewer than half a dozen active threads in this subforum? Most of these threads are closed or would be if someone necros them. Your assessment doesn't take into account that there's barely any current activity here and that's what matters when making a determination. Despite what the PvP community (what's left of it) believes, PvP is not popular amongst the majority and they are not just "waiting to do PvP if it would only be improved."
All that being said, you're obviously free to discuss your ideas about PvP in the game, but we cannot allow blatant insults and accusations. So, please keep things civil. Thank you.[/quote]
ty for responding. i'll keep things civil
no, i'm not trying to rate it's current popularity based on those numbers. i'm using those numbers to show that pvp was once very popular and had more comments in the pvp section than any other specialized section by far, over 2x the amount of any other. and it almost even had the same number of comments as the general forums. that's huge. there is def still a lot of interest in it based on those numbers, but it's not popular anymore because of how it works now. there is def a potential here to grab ppl who are looking for a good spaceship game with good pvp at the end to look forward to. but there are many players like myself who want that pvp to look forward to at the end, cause lets face it the pve isnt much of a challenge when u get good gear and skills. it's what helps to keep the endgame alive for many people. and when potential players look at the endgame and see no pvp queues and no endgame challenge in sight, they often wont bother with the game at all. that's a huge playerbase that used to be a big part of the game, as shown by those numbers, that the devs have decided to ignore. I really think there's a lot of potential there if only the pvp were considered when making decisions for this game.
oh well, my apologies then, in my opinion pvp is so easy to fix and make enjoyable again, its asks for very little:
1. Intel teams (and its synergies stackings) - this is cancer, it turns players off from pvping, (i have a long time veteran friend who used to love pvping but now refuses to play pvp because of this)
2. endevours - its not possible to catch up, most people give up
3. No stepping stones. New players are faced with either spend alot of $$ or give up on pvp situation, it will be nice if there were not-as-good but freebie alternatives to some of the essentials for pvping.
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I think a forceful re-spawn fix that doesn't require "good morals" is possible, just add a randomized respawn location of some kind plus 10 second untargetible/weapons offline/engine speed respawn buff, there - easy fix for that one.
Excuse me, what?? We do not delete/control content. We remove comments that breaks ToS/forum rules. If something was ever removed, it was because it violated those rules. We do not delete valid content, even if it is negative criticism. A bunch of your stuff? As of this writing, you have a post count of 7, and only one partial post was moderated for rules violation, which you didn't even receive a warning for, so how about you stop drinking the Kool-Aid.
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Yes, I deleted the offending paragraphs of which there were only 2, not "several". As for the missing post, that was not me. The forum has an automated bot that identifies potential spam and automatically removes the post before it can actually be posted. This normally only happens to unverified user accounts, which yours was. Thank you for letting me, though, so that I could verify your profile and restore your post. As for the "insult," it wasn't meant to be one. Only to illustrate that you shouldn't take at face value everything you're told, especially when some people have their own agendas, because there's always another side to a story, as I have tried to do here by disabusing you of the misconceptions about this forum's moderators. I sincerely apologize, though, if you were offended by my comments.
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thank you, and thank you for restoring that post. sry if i offended you too. have a good one