test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

ELITE BRIDGE OFFICER TRAINING!

2»

Comments

  • gfreeman98gfreeman98 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    jcsww wrote: »
    However, a quick search of each trail will also let you know if there are any better versions of it or not.

    That info should be in-game, easy to discern/discover by the player, directly from the UI, otherwise it's not really a solution.

    screenshot_2015-03-01-resize4.png
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,247 Community Moderator
    gfreeman98 wrote: »
    jcsww wrote: »
    However, a quick search of each trail will also let you know if there are any better versions of it or not.

    That info should be in-game, easy to discern/discover by the player, directly from the UI, otherwise it's not really a solution.

    Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that it's not a solution. 🤷🏼‍♀️
    GrWzQke.png
    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
    Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
    Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
    ----> Contact Customer Support <----
    Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
    Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
    Want the latest information on Star Trek Online?
    Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
  • gfreeman98gfreeman98 Member Posts: 1,200 Arc User
    edited September 2022
    (Link removed per forum rules. - BMR)
    Lame response. If checking Google or some Wiki is the "solution", then most players will never see it.

    The game UI for this needs to be fixed. Full stop.
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
    screenshot_2015-03-01-resize4.png
  • inferiorityinferiority Member Posts: 3,933 Arc User
    edited September 2022
    gfreeman98 wrote: »
    The game UI for this needs to be fixed. Full stop.
    Fixed?
    No.
    Improved? Perhaps...
    In fact, there's plenty of room for some minor improvements to the UI, but most of them would make the UI very 'heavy' and unwieldy.
    - - - - I n f e r i o r i t y - C o m p l e x - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
    Everyone has a better name and Youtube Channel than me...  :/
  • c0nsic0nsi Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    gfreeman98 wrote: »
    jcsww wrote: »
    However, a quick search of each trail will also let you know if there are any better versions of it or not.

    That info should be in-game, easy to discern/discover by the player, directly from the UI, otherwise it's not really a solution.

    Just because you don't like it, doesn't mean that it's not a solution. 🤷🏼‍♀️

    Using a 3rd party source to get information the ingame UI should show you is NOT a solution, it's a workaround.

    As soon as a trait gets updated/patched the 3rd party source information is incorrect until updated IF the information is correct in the first place. Since it's a 3rd party source, they could write whatever they want.
    You have to tab out of the game to get information you should have ingame.
    And, since the game doesn't tell you, you don't even KNOW you need to check your trait via 3rd party source until it's too late, at least the first time you're upgrading and find out somethings wrong.

    Just because you are happy with a workaround, doesn't mean it's a solution. There's a difference.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,247 Community Moderator
    c0nsi wrote: »
    Just because you are happy with a workaround, doesn't mean it's a solution. There's a difference.

    Just because you are unhappy with a solution, doesn't mean that it's not one. It solves an issue for many, and many use it. It solves their problem, therefore it's a solution for them.
    GrWzQke.png
    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
    Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
    Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
    ----> Contact Customer Support <----
    Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
    Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
    Want the latest information on Star Trek Online?
    Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
  • c0nsic0nsi Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2022
    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/workaround

    Definition of workaround:
    a way of dealing with a problem or making something work despite the problem, without completely solving it.

    Again, using a 3rd party site does NOT fix the problem that the user doesn't know INGAME if the trait will work or not. It does not solve this problem, so it is not a solution, it's a workaround. Not everyone has a second monitor or wants to tab out of the game for information that should be availiable ingame. Just because you are happy using this workaround does not mean everybody should be okay with it. This is something that should be fixed, not outsourced to a 3rd party they have absolutly no control over.

    Lets use another example: If your car breaks down, you can use the bus to get where you want to go, this get's you where you want to go, so it does work, but it doesn't fix your car.

    Edit: Just so we are clear, this is NOT meant to be aggressive or an attack. I just think as a Community Moderator you should be extra extra carefull to 'sell' a workaround as 'the solution to the problem'. There is a difference between solving a problem and telling people to use a workaround. Sure a workaround works, but it should never ever replace solving the problem.
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,247 Community Moderator
    c0nsi wrote: »
    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/workaround

    Definition of workaround:
    a way of dealing with a problem or making something work despite the problem, without completely solving it.

    Again, using a 3rd party site does NOT fix the problem that the user doesn't know INGAME if the trait will work or not. It does not solve this problem, so it is not a solution, it's a workaround. Not everyone has a second monitor or wants to tab out of the game for information that should be availiable ingame. Just because you are happy using this workaround does not mean everybody should be okay with it. This is something that should be fixed, not outsourced to a 3rd party they have absolutly no control over.

    Lets use another example: If your car breaks down, you can use the bus to get where you want to go, this get's you where you want to go, so it does work, but it doesn't fix your car.

    Edit: Just so we are clear, this is NOT meant to be aggressive or an attack. I just think as a Community Moderator you should be extra extra carefull to 'sell' a workaround as 'the solution to the problem'. There is a difference between solving a problem and telling people to use a workaround. Sure a workaround works, but it should never ever replace solving the problem.

    Oh! We want to play word games with a linguist. Ok.

    https://dictionary.cambridge.org/us/dictionary/english/solution?q=Solution+

    Definition of a solution:
    an answer to a problem; a way to solve a problem or deal with a difficult situation

    Again, you may not like this particular solution, but it is an answer to a problem, and certainly a way to deal with a difficult situation. And as long as we're debating semantics, "solving a problem" does not necessarily equate to "fixing a problem," as solving a problem can simply be finding an answer to, or means of effectively dealing with a problem. So I think you may be conflating two different ideas here.

    Also I never said or implied that it fixed the situation, only that it helps deal with it. And I'm quite clear that you are being aggressive. Your appeal to authority with the Cambridge dictionary definition made that obvious. As is your calling me out by my title of Community Moderator is an obvious attempt to get me to back down and silence me. So don't suggest to me what and how I can post. I'm just as entitled to express my thoughts and opinions as you are to yours. I'm not "selling" anything. I merely objected to your rejection of the term of "solution" being used.
    GrWzQke.png
    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
    Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
    Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
    ----> Contact Customer Support <----
    Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
    Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
    Want the latest information on Star Trek Online?
    Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
  • c0nsic0nsi Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2022
    Ok...lets clearify some things here:

    1. Not everyone here is a native english speaker. Me pointing out my statements are not meant to be taken as agressive was merely to avoid miscommunication, because as you can guess now, english is NOT my first language.
    2. you tell everyone who doesn't like the workaround basicly thats there problem, which could be interpreted as agressive, which is another reason i added my statements are not meant to be agressive.
    3. I brought up your position as Community Moderator to point out that your position on this matter can easily be taken as official statement. And 'Just google it' doesn't sound too good.
    4. the Cambridge Definition of 'workaround' is literary the FIRST thing that google gave me that was in english and not in my native english.

    I am not your enemy... this is the games forum, if people report missing information in the game, they don't want to hear 'Just look it up elsewhere, that has to be enough', they want to hear 'Oh, they must have missed that, i'll inform them, meanwhile you can use this'... sadly in my eyes your statements came off as the first, not the later and thats the point i'm trying to bring across.

    You may see external sources as a solution, but you can't expect everyone thinks the same.
    Solving vs. Fixing: If you solve a problem via an external source it can lead to all kind of other problems, an easy example would be if the external page is shut down. If you fix the problem, it's gone.
    If people are getting the feeling reporting a problem does not lead to at least the attempt to trying to fix the problem, they sooner or later will stop reporting them. And thats not a good thing.

    Lastly: Where i'm from solving a problem IS fixing a problem. While your suggestion would be seen as circumventing the problem, and thereby be a workaround, seems to be a cultural thing that lead to this miscommunication.

    Edit: typo
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,247 Community Moderator
    c0nsi wrote: »
    Ok...lets clearify some things here:

    1. Not everyone here is a native english speaker. Me pointing out my statements are not meant to be taken as agressive was merely to avoid miscommunication, because as you can guess now, english is NOT my first language.
    2. you tell everyone who doesn't like the workaround basicly thats there problem, which could be interpreted as agressive, which is another reason i added my statements are not meant to be agressive.
    3. I brought up your position as Community Moderator to point out that your position on this matter can easily be taken as official statement. And 'Just google it' doesn't sound too good.
    4. the Cambridge Definition of 'workaround' is literary the FIRST thing that google gave me that was in english and not in my native english.

    I am not your enemy... this is the games forum, if people report missing information in the game, they don't want to hear 'Just look it up elsewhere, that has to be enough', they want to hear 'Oh, they must have missed that, i'll inform them, meanwhile you can use this'... sadly in my eyes your statements came off as the first, not the later and thats the point i'm trying to bring across.

    You may see external sources as a solution, but you can't expect everyone thinks the same.
    Solving vs. Fixing: If you solve a problem via an external source it can lead to all kind of other problems, an easy example would be if the external page is shut down. If you fix the problem, it's gone.
    If people are getting the feeling reporting a problem does not lead to at least the attempt to trying to fix the problem, they sooner or later will stop reporting them. And thats not a good thing.

    Lastly: Where i'm from solving a problem IS fixing a problem. While your suggestion would be seen as circumventing the problem, and thereby be a workaround, seems to be a cultural thing that lead to this miscommunication.

    Edit: typo

    Ok, I will address the points you've brought up here, but we're really off the subject and need to get back on track.

    1) I'm well aware that not everyone is a native speaker. But admittedly I was not aware that English was not your native language.

    2) You're putting words in my mouth. I didn't say anything about people not liking the solution that it's their problem. Those are your words. What I did say is that I disagreed with your rejection of the use of the term "solution" and dismissal of the idea as a possible solution to the issue. But I never said or meant to imply that it was ideal.

    3) My signature literally says that "Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic,
    Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic," so there is absolutely NO reason why anyone should take my opinions as an official statement.

    4) Not sure of the significance of that, but ok. Still, if English isn't your native language and by pointing that out you seem to be indicating that you doubt your own grasp of the language, then perhaps don't start debating semantics. Just a thought.

    Of course you're not my enemy. I don't see anyone as an enemy here. If anyone does, they're taking things way too seriously. Again, though, you're putting words in my mouth. I never said or suggested that people just have to accept the presented solution, which wasn't brought up by me by the way. I only agreed with the original presenter that it is A solution. Again, not ideal, but it works.

    I don't expect anything from anyone except to follow the forum rules. So, please, don't suggest that I'm expecting anyone to just accept using external sources as an ideal solution. That being said, it IS really the only real solution we have until something is added in-game. Bringing back Memory Alpha has been a suggestion in the past for such things, but sadly that hasn't happened.

    And to address your last: yes, perhaps there is a cultural difference that led to a miscommunication.

    At any rate, let's get back to the topic of the thread.
    GrWzQke.png
    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
    Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
    Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
    ----> Contact Customer Support <----
    Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
    Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
    Want the latest information on Star Trek Online?
    Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
  • c0nsic0nsi Member Posts: 76 Arc User
    edited September 2022
    4. I'm only bringing this up to clearify. It was not my intention to imply im not capable to communicate in english, or debate a point. That said, most western languages are based on latin, and languages evolve, sometimes words evolve in different directions, which is why i sometimes look up the definition of a word, to make sure it does have the same meaning than the equivalent word in my language. Now i could use my own definition after i made sure it has the same meaning, but more often than not the response you get, if you use your own words is 'no, your wrong'. So it's much clearer (and easier) to just link the official definition. Providing a source for the point you are trying to make is absolutly normal where i'm from, and not seen as an attack. After your post answering my first post, i got the feeling you where getting angry, which is why i added the edit my post is neither meant to be seen as aggressive, nor was i trying to attack you. i was merely trying to 'cool down' the situation, which obviously failed xD

    Okay, back to topic.

    I think most people would be happy if some questions would be answered, maybe you can help there.

    Are you aware if the devs know that traits that don't have a superior versions are replaced by seemingly random superior traits?
    And is this the intended behavior or a bug?
    Sadly it's hard to get info in the forums these days, and not everyone has/likes twitter.
    Could the idea that he upgrade shows what will be replaced before they are applied be forwarded to the devs / or has this already happend?
  • baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,247 Community Moderator
    c0nsi wrote: »
    Okay, back to topic.

    I think most people would be happy if some questions would be answered, maybe you can help there.

    Are you aware if the devs know that traits that don't have a superior versions are replaced by seemingly random superior traits?
    And is this the intended behavior or a bug?
    Sadly it's hard to get info in the forums these days, and not everyone has/likes twitter.
    Could the idea that he upgrade shows what will be replaced before they are applied be forwarded to the devs / or has this already happend?

    I can say that I have personally brought it to their attention about Traits getting replaced instead of upgraded. I haven't been advised whether this is intended or a bug. Venturing a guess, I would say bug, since I've seen examples of Traits that do have a Superior version getting replaced instead of upgrading. In these instances, I'm advising that players file a bug report, because I believe this needs to be looked at and addressed.

    The idea of an upgrade preview of Traits has also been mentioned. Personally, I think it's a valid request to know which Traits will upgrade and to what before pulling the trigger on using the token. I'm hoping that it's something they can and will implement, but I can't guarantee anything.
    GrWzQke.png
    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
    Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
    Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
    ----> Contact Customer Support <----
    Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
    Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
    Want the latest information on Star Trek Online?
    Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,789 Arc User
    Definitely appreciated you passing on the idea of having the system show us which traits would be upgraded and which would not be before applying the token, @baddmoonrizin!
  • kerdakerda Member Posts: 10 Arc User
    This seems to be a step in the right direction, would be great to have those BOFFs on many of our missions, since it's really only Episodes that they help on. :(
This discussion has been closed.