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Forums > Home› Star Trek Online General Discussion

TFO's READ the mission people !

maqoghmaqogh Member Posts: 8 Arc User
edited July 2023 in Star Trek Online General Discussion
So was running a random TFO today (Infected:the Conduit) and of course we had several people who were DPS maxer's and just tab killed almost everything. The problem is these unwise players killed both nanite transformers before we killed the eight nanite generators. This causes the nanite generators to despawn. Which makes the TFO unable to complete because you can't kill all eight generators, a requirement to complete the TFO. (and locking out all TFO's for 30 min cause you have to quit)

Now of course the 4 others all felt the TFO was "bugged" until I pointed out what they did that caused the TFO to become uncompletable.

So to prevent this from happening to you, you all can just READ the mission requirements (nah that would be too hard, can't expect people to read) before killing everything in sight. Or try and get the devs to "fix" the TFO (which is not bugged or broken IMO).

Note to Dev's if you do decide to do something about this "bug" Make the transformers IMMUNE TO DAMAGE OF ALL KINDS until all 4 of the generators are dead. It may not get people to actually read the TFO requirements but will stop them from breaking the content and complaining about bug's that really do not exist.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
«1

Comments

  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,636 Arc User
    That's a new bug to me. Which platform? (PC? XBox? Playstation?) You used to be able to just kill the Nanite Gens after it, though, Nanite Probes or Spheres could sometimes heal the already dead Nanite Transformers if you didn't kill them before they got close.
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,857 Arc User
    I thought they were shielded until the 8 were done
    Spock.jpg

  • tom61stotom61sto Member Posts: 3,636 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    vetteguy904 wrote: »
    I thought they were shielded until the 8 were done

    Only the main gate is shielded to be invulnerable in the current version. The Nanite Generators heal the Transformer though, and requires extremely high DPS compared to the average player to punch through with all four up for that Transformer on Advanced and Elite.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,825 Arc User
    vetteguy904 wrote: »
    I thought they were shielded until the 8 were done

    They used to take no damage if I recall long ago

    But it changed to rapid regeneration and when DPS got rampant and insane it become possible to kill it through the regeneration
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,512 Arc User
    tom61sto wrote: »
    vetteguy904 wrote: »
    I thought they were shielded until the 8 were done

    Only the main gate is shielded to be invulnerable in the current version. The Nanite Generators heal the Transformer though, and requires extremely high DPS compared to the average player to punch through with all four up for that Transformer on Advanced and Elite.

    Which means this is a bug, just one that might never get fixed so players need to work around it by doing the TFO the "right way," i.e. the only way the devs planned for.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,015 Community Moderator
    lianthelia wrote: »
    They used to take no damage if I recall long ago

    But it changed to rapid regeneration and when DPS got rampant and insane it become possible to kill it through the regeneration

    No... I think the regen was just so high that unless you had serious spike DPS the regen was so fast it just countered everything the player threw at it.

    I actually remember when TriCos were able to kill the Gate while both things were up. We just didn't have the sustained DPS to actually dent it because the regen was so high.

    Anyways... if this is a bug report I can move this to the appropriate section, and even pass it up the chain as this is rather game breaking if it is true. However I will need to know which platform this is on.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 58,015 Community Moderator
    I have passed this up the chain due to just how breaking this could be.

    @maqogh would you like this moved to PC Gameplay Bug Reports?
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    Yang Xiao Long wrote:
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,177 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    maqogh wrote: »
    So was running a random TFO today (Infected:the Conduit) and of course we had several people who were DPS maxer's and just tab killed almost everything. The problem is these unwise players killed both nanite transformers before we killed the eight nanite generators. This causes the nanite generators to despawn. Which makes the TFO unable to complete because you can't kill all eight generators, a requirement to complete the TFO. (and locking out all TFO's for 30 min cause you have to quit)

    Now of course the 4 others all felt the TFO was "bugged" until I pointed out what they did that caused the TFO to become uncompletable.

    So to prevent this from happening to you, you all can just READ the mission requirements (nah that would be too hard, can't expect people to read) before killing everything in sight. Or try and get the devs to "fix" the TFO (which is not bugged or broken IMO).

    Note to Dev's if you do decide to do something about this "bug" Make the transformers IMMUNE TO DAMAGE OF ALL KINDS until all 4 of the generators are dead. It may not get people to actually read the TFO requirements but will stop them from breaking the content and complaining about bug's that really do not exist.
    Does this only happen when you kill both nanite transformers before killing the nanite generators? As despite not using a DPS Maxer setup I almost always kill the nanite transformers before the nanite generators and I do not expreince this bug normally. (I have experienced it very rarely)

    I would like to point out its not fair to blame the players for the flaw in the mission. You tell us to read the mission requirements but that doesnt change anything. Reading the mission doesnt prevent this from happening. With the way my build works with the mechanics the devs designed I cannot avoid this happening with my core build. If it is indeed this that is breaking the mission its not breaking because I am not reading the mission. Its breaking because of how the devs have designed the mission.

    This feels a bit like your blaming DPS maxers instead of looking at the real problem which is a bug/flaw in the map design. From what I can see this problem has little to do with DPS maxers.
  • faelon#8433 faelon
    faelon#8433
         Member Posts: 358 Arc User
    How would reading the TFO briefing prevent them from getting hit by a bugged instance? You're shrieking at other players for not knowing the bugs in advance. You're not supposed to be able to kill the transformer until the generators are dead.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 4,177 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    westmetals wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    maqogh wrote: »
    So was running a random TFO today (Infected:the Conduit) and of course we had several people who were DPS maxer's and just tab killed almost everything. The problem is these unwise players killed both nanite transformers before we killed the eight nanite generators. This causes the nanite generators to despawn. Which makes the TFO unable to complete because you can't kill all eight generators, a requirement to complete the TFO. (and locking out all TFO's for 30 min cause you have to quit)

    Now of course the 4 others all felt the TFO was "bugged" until I pointed out what they did that caused the TFO to become uncompletable.

    So to prevent this from happening to you, you all can just READ the mission requirements (nah that would be too hard, can't expect people to read) before killing everything in sight. Or try and get the devs to "fix" the TFO (which is not bugged or broken IMO).

    Note to Dev's if you do decide to do something about this "bug" Make the transformers IMMUNE TO DAMAGE OF ALL KINDS until all 4 of the generators are dead. It may not get people to actually read the TFO requirements but will stop them from breaking the content and complaining about bug's that really do not exist.
    Does this only happen when you kill both nanite transformers before killing the nanite generators? As despite not using a DPS Maxer setup I almost always kill the nanite transformers before the nanite generators and I do not expreince this bug normally. (I have experienced it very rarely)

    I would like to point out its not fair to blame the players for the flaw in the mission. You tell us to read the mission requirements but that doesnt change anything. Reading the mission doesnt prevent this from happening. With the way my build works with the mechanics the devs designed I cannot avoid this happening with my core build. If it is indeed this that is breaking the mission its not breaking because I am not reading the mission. Its breaking because of how the devs have designed the mission.

    This feels a bit like your blaming DPS maxers instead of looking at the real problem which is a bug/flaw in the map design. From what I can see this problem has little to do with DPS maxers.

    Except that, since it is a matter of the order of destruction... perhaps a failure to understand the intended operation of the TFO could result in a player targeting the transformers before the generators.

    "With the way my build works with the mechanics the devs designed I cannot avoid this happening with my core build."

    Really. You can't choose what you are shooting at?
    My core builds are Mine Layers and Carriers often both together. Both of which self target. I can just about focus them both on the front generators after which they switch to the next nearest target which is the transformer. Getting them to not hit the transformer on the way to the rear generators after the front generators are killed is near impossible. Due to this more often then not I end up destroying the transformer before the rear generators. Even if I do get them to target the rear generators which is sometimes possible the AoE effect tends to still hit the middle transformer which has already taken damage from when they took out front generators. All my gear and traits are boosting the pets which are not precise enough to avoid hitting the transformer.
  • orangenee#2931 orangenee
    orangenee#2931
         Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    "Yeah boys, blap blap blap".

    " Yo five me brah! "

    "Wait, we failed? We weren't just dakkaing all the things?"

    " Oh well, TRIBBLE that noise using my brain is hard, back to ISE it is!!! "

    *Elevated hand slaps echo (quiet down physics nerds) through space*
  • mirrorterranmirrorterran Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    Flame post redacted - rattler
    Post edited by rattler2 on
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,715 Community Moderator
    If one of you can get me some video evidence of this happening, i'll be glad to pass it up the chain. otherwise, targeting the transformers is generally how alot of folks, especially sci builds setup their stuff on a particular side. Target the transformer with their grav wells since it's centrally located, and the generators get blasted down by the AoE. Same for me as a tank with my FAW cycles. I've also been in runs where we've destroyed the transformer before the generators were down and I've never seen this happen where they despawn. Hence like I said if you guys have video of this happening I'll be glad to take a look at it and pass it up as this sounds like something newer.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5
    fleetcaptain5#1134
         Member Posts: 4,786 Arc User
    Few people bother to put some effort into targeting enemies. The game's design and easy power creep also rarely promote doing so.

    But those nanite transformers were designed not to be destroyed before the generators are gone. Of course that's not how it has been for a long time, but that was the idea originally. So from that perspective, this actually is a bug.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5
    fleetcaptain5#1134
         Member Posts: 4,786 Arc User
    corinthalas wrote: »
    westmetals wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    maqogh wrote: »
    So was running a random TFO today (Infected:the Conduit) and of course we had several people who were DPS maxer's and just tab killed almost everything. The problem is these unwise players killed both nanite transformers before we killed the eight nanite generators. This causes the nanite generators to despawn. Which makes the TFO unable to complete because you can't kill all eight generators, a requirement to complete the TFO. (and locking out all TFO's for 30 min cause you have to quit)

    Now of course the 4 others all felt the TFO was "bugged" until I pointed out what they did that caused the TFO to become uncompletable.

    So to prevent this from happening to you, you all can just READ the mission requirements (nah that would be too hard, can't expect people to read) before killing everything in sight. Or try and get the devs to "fix" the TFO (which is not bugged or broken IMO).

    Note to Dev's if you do decide to do something about this "bug" Make the transformers IMMUNE TO DAMAGE OF ALL KINDS until all 4 of the generators are dead. It may not get people to actually read the TFO requirements but will stop them from breaking the content and complaining about bug's that really do not exist.
    Does this only happen when you kill both nanite transformers before killing the nanite generators? As despite not using a DPS Maxer setup I almost always kill the nanite transformers before the nanite generators and I do not expreince this bug normally. (I have experienced it very rarely)

    I would like to point out its not fair to blame the players for the flaw in the mission. You tell us to read the mission requirements but that doesnt change anything. Reading the mission doesnt prevent this from happening. With the way my build works with the mechanics the devs designed I cannot avoid this happening with my core build. If it is indeed this that is breaking the mission its not breaking because I am not reading the mission. Its breaking because of how the devs have designed the mission.

    This feels a bit like your blaming DPS maxers instead of looking at the real problem which is a bug/flaw in the map design. From what I can see this problem has little to do with DPS maxers.

    Except that, since it is a matter of the order of destruction... perhaps a failure to understand the intended operation of the TFO could result in a player targeting the transformers before the generators.

    "With the way my build works with the mechanics the devs designed I cannot avoid this happening with my core build."

    Really. You can't choose what you are shooting at?

    The transformers should be immune until the generators are destroyed. It would be better if, just like you can't target the *gateway* until both transformers are destroyed, you couldn't even target the transformers until the generators are destroyed. In fact, I'd appreciate immune enemies being untargetable in general. The game already doesn't cooperate with trying to target specific things (note: I didn't think it was possible for a tab-target system to be dumber than WoW's but STO's 'system' is far, far worse). Nobody needs the added headache of trying to target around things you can't even damage.

    Besides making things that are supposed to be the last things blowing up immune until the rest is actually destroyed, I'd also suggest making the generators immune to AoE-damage.

    Make them vulnerable to directed weapons (torpedoes, beams, cannons) only. Even better, if possible: make them vulnerable to damage from players that actually have selected that target only. Transformers and all other enemies can remain the same.
    I don't think it would be a bad idea if players actually needed to look again at what they're shooting for at least a part of the mission, instead of just mindlessly spamming stuff because that will work just as well or even better.

    They did this with targetable torpedoes, and the intention was clearly for other enemies to work like this too (see Tzenkethi as an example). If they can restore this need for targeting, it would not only fix issues like the OP is describing, but also make those missions more enjoyable to players who don't use AoE abilities and who now mostly just get to watch others blow up stuff because they don't need to pay attention to what they're shooting at.

    And, for the record, this is coming from someone who certainly enjoys his Sci and scatter volley builds at times. There's nothing wrong with Sci and other AoE/multi-target builds, but some missions and enemies were clearly designed (but are currently failing) to encourage the player to focus fire on specific targets first.
    Also, AoE and multi-target builds would still be effective in the other 99% of the game and even within the Borg missions - as, again, only the small generators would be changed to more effectively encourage target selection as the mission design intended to do.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • mirrorterranmirrorterran Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    My previous post had some anger in it but I'm not sure I would categorize it as a flaming.
    When I see prominent youtubers use beam overload on a transformer with 4 generators on it to solely pad their dps numbers I get annoyed.

    (Post restored after further review. - BMR)
    Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
  • orangenee#2931 orangenee
    orangenee#2931
         Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    It's the "parse explanations" they insist on doing that gets me with the youtubers.....

    Gotta win that top prize from being number one on the leaderboar.....oh there isn't one.

    My main nukes everything he comes across too, and I haven't really tried to build him around DPS, it just happened.

    I've always been a PTFO guy though, hence why my stats are garbage in every Battlefield game.
  • mirrorterranmirrorterran Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    My only point I've been trying to make is that i see people come in and blast away at the transformers with beam overload and all 4 generators up all the time. It's doing nothing for your team and padding your dps meter. I even recently saw a youtuber do it. Please don't do that.
  • orangenee#2931 orangenee
    orangenee#2931
         Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    That is why we need the Trinity. If we can start steering people away from all dakka and parsing, and into tanking and healing.

    Right now, everybody has the same job, shoot all the things. This leads to issues like mirrorterran describes, yeah Cryptic could just fix it so it doesn't happen, but we all know they won't.

    For all it's other issues, even Neverwinter enforces the trinity and even some coordination.

    Mind you, I guess DPS brings the money in.


  • mirrorterranmirrorterran Member Posts: 423 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    orangenee#2931 wrote: »
    That is why we need the Trinity.

    No thank you. Plenty of other MMOs on the market for that style of play.

    I know I'm in the minority here but that's exactly how I play.

    Tac/Tac Ultimate/Tac ship
    Sci/Sci Ultimate/Sci Ship
    Eng/Eng Ultimate/Eng Ship

    Basically did it to be different, but let me tell you it's FUN!
  • orangenee#2931 orangenee
    orangenee#2931
         Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    orangenee#2931 wrote: »
    That is why we need the Trinity.

    No thank you. Plenty of other MMOs on the market for that style of play.

    Yeah and this one is dull because of it.

    Here you have an exciting choice of shoot stuff, shoot stuff even quicker, spend a fortune and get out in 20 seconds.

    Plenty of other games on the market for that too.
This discussion has been closed.