test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc
Options

It's time to remove the Loadout System

13»

Comments

  • Options
    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,129 Community Moderator
    edited June 2022
    In the past I've had no trouble knowing who was targeting me and where to go. But I have seen others just... floundering around like they don't even know what they're doing. Admittedly this was around the time the TFO was released too. From my experience, and from what I recall, it has been pretty clear as I believe a big target indicator gets put on your ship, which is hard to miss, and there's usually an indicator over or around the other ship. So... unless there's some funky settings in play or some other variable... *shrug*

    Also I recall actual audio cues as well. I believe Martok for one, and... oh what's her name, The Witch of Nimbus, for the other.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • Options
    eristhevortaeristhevorta Member Posts: 1,049 Bug Hunter
    Since I only use one ship purr character, I'd rather have no loadouts than non-working ones. Having to re-trait and re-arrange nearly every single time (especially after having flown another ship for some reason, be it an episode or a shuttle etc.) is very tedious.
    "Everything about the Jham'Hadar is lethal!" - Eris
    Original Join Date: January 30th, 2010
  • Options
    zaraszzarasz Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    zarasz wrote: »
    And then there are situations where we have no idea whether something is terrible by design or terrible by accident. See: Remain Klingon TFO. How much of the negativity surrounding this TFO is simply a product of bad design and what part is bugs?
    What bad design or possible bugs regarding that TFO are you refering to? Just curious because I actually enjoy that one and havent noticed anything that I would label bugged.

    Players not getting proper cues about being targeted, not being shown proper cues about which ship they should fly to...should I continue?
    Ive done my fair share of this TFO especially during the last klingon event but havent observed either. I always see who is the target and see the marker where they are supposed to go. But then again, not all of my toons suffer from the same bugs. It hits them at random but then its permanent.
    rattler2 wrote: »
    In the past I've had no trouble knowing who was targeting me and where to go. But I have seen others just... floundering around like they don't even know what they're doing. Admittedly this was around the time the TFO was released too. From my experience, and from what I recall, it has been pretty clear as I believe a big target indicator gets put on your ship, which is hard to miss, and there's usually an indicator over or around the other ship. So... unless there's some funky settings in play or some other variable... *shrug*

    Also I recall actual audio cues as well. I believe Martok for one, and... oh what's her name, The Witch of Nimbus, for the other.
    I dont think he is refering to people who cant connect the dots. It sounds more like an occasional lack of visual cues that Im sure I observed every single time.

    Just not I checked a toon, literally stumbled over the traits... and the space and starship traits were wiped again. No ship change, no map change, nothing. Just gone. What do I save the loadout for? This isnt really indicating they are trying to fix it when we suffer from this for months now.
    Post edited by zarasz on
  • Options
    rattler2rattler2 Member, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 58,129 Community Moderator
    zarasz wrote: »

    Just not I checked a toon, literally stumbled over the traits... and the space and starship traits were wiped again. No ship change, no map change, nothing. Just gone. What do I save the loadout for? This isnt really indicating they are trying to fix it when we suffer from this for months now.

    When it comes to code, it could take a while to track down the cause. Back when we made the switch over to the Reputation system years ago, we had a bug that blocked some characters from getting their hard earned accolade armor parts. Took them a whole year to track that one down.

    Code is complex. Some problems are easier to solve than others. Again, just because it hasn't been fixed yet doesn't mean they aren't fixing it at all. This one's probably proving to be far more complex than it appears to us. One wrong digit in a long string of code can throw a wrench into the whole thing. Unfortunately this is one that's shaping up to be a long haul dig for the cause. We'll just have to keep an eye on the patch notes and work our own workarounds to mitigate until its fixed. Annoying... but... not much else we players can do but hope they can track down the cause. Venting I can understand. Going to accusations... is honestly uncalled for because we don't know what things look like in the office. We can only speculate. And it is unfair to assume the worst and jumpt to the worst case scenario at every turn just because something hasn't been solved yet. They know about it and they are working on it. They are not obligated to give us progress reports. Basically... we're in the state of "we'll get there when we get there."
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • Options
    zaraszzarasz Member Posts: 186 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    (Censored. - BMR)

    Post edited by zarasz on
  • Options
    warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,205 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Workarounds don't solve the problem. They just mitigate. I have no doubt they're trying to track down the cause, but we have to consider we're talking lots of speggetti code, so trying to figure out which one is an issue can take time.

    Just because something isn't fixed five minutes ago doesn't mean they're not working on it.

    5 minutes ago?
    Problems with the Loadout System have been going over 8 years now. I have posts early in the first page going that far back, it's the same stuff.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • Options
    firebirdofwisdom#8314 firebirdofwisdom Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Workarounds don't solve the problem. They just mitigate. I have no doubt they're trying to track down the cause, but we have to consider we're talking lots of speggetti code, so trying to figure out which one is an issue can take time.

    Just because something isn't fixed five minutes ago doesn't mean they're not working on it.

    5 minutes ago?
    Problems with the Loadout System have been going over 8 years now. I have posts early in the first page going that far back, it's the same stuff.

    I don't remember the guy who showed it to me but there is a trick to get the Loadout system to work 100% of the time. Ground or space no matter and so far at least it has worked for me without fail.
    Though if I miss or jump a step the issues do rear the ugly head.
    I will give it to you here and now and you can try it if you want but I will make no guarantees:

    1st: Get everything for your build into inventory and then do step 2.
    2nd: Build your build in a Social Ground/Space Locations ONLY!: First City, ESD orbit, DS9 Space ect. NEVER EVER Sector Space, Battlezone, TFO ect!
    3rd: Create a new Loadout and save it -Twice.
    4th: Go into options and under graphics/display at the bottom click Save UI button.
    5th: The loadouts Should hold then.
  • Options
    firebirdofwisdom#8314 firebirdofwisdom Member Posts: 27 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Workarounds don't solve the problem. They just mitigate. I have no doubt they're trying to track down the cause, but we have to consider we're talking lots of speggetti code, so trying to figure out which one is an issue can take time.

    Just because something isn't fixed five minutes ago doesn't mean they're not working on it.

    5 minutes ago?
    Problems with the Loadout System have been going over 8 years now. I have posts early in the first page going that far back, it's the same stuff.


    There is a trick that can be used to hopefully get the loadout system to work 100% of the time.
    Granted it may or may not succeed it can be worth a try if it really causing that much trouble.
    Don't remember who showed it to me but glad they did for so far it has never failed.
    Unless I miss one of the following steps:

    1st: Get everything together for your build and put in your chars inventroy.
    2nd: Build your build in a social zone ONLY -NEVER Sector space nor battlezone or TFO's
    3rd: Save your loadout as a new load out and save it TWICE in a row.
    4th: Go to options and find the Save UI under HUD and save the UI -don't load.
    5th: Log off and back on -the Loadout should now hold.
    Post edited by firebirdofwisdom#8314 on
  • Options


    Also to remove the system and revert back to what we had before is not very smart.
    Why? Because sometimes we would end up with weird issues -costly weird issues for some.
    For example back in 2013 I had two ships that disappeared from my account after deleting ONE weapon.
    Simply gone. Pfft. Almost like the ship was tied to the weapon and deleting destroyed the ship.
    Don't remember the ships anyway now -nor care I have moved on to Freedom.
    Since the loadouts this hasn't happened -strange but true.

    I can understand not wanting to use loadouts -especially if it has burned you in the past.
    Which I assume that you have used it since you have 12 Loadout slots available and the default is only two to start with.

    Though just because you may not find it helpful doesn't mean others don't find it beneficial. Also for Star Trek Online as a whole to remove it may be detrimental to player base if its removed. For the sole reason that those who "depend" on it may just rage quit for its removal.
    Best to keep all and loose no one.
    Still c'est la vie.
  • Options
    wraithshadow13wraithshadow13 Member Posts: 1,728 Arc User
    And I'm going to guess it gets swapped out for the exact same things each time? Because that's loadouts. Chances are you haven't noticed it with your ship because the equipment on the ship is what the loadout has saved.


    Weirdly, yes AND no.


    It was the same power and the same item but then it stopped on the item. It replaced them both for a week but then stopped replacing the power when i put in a different TYPE of turret. As for the item, i originally swapped from the Tardi TO the android but it didn't replace the tardi, it just removed the android. NOW, without messing with the powers, it just randomly takes the android out of my items and places it in the inventory. You're right, though, I haven't messed with the ship side in a while so I would never have noticed anything there. I'll have to check to see if it's just the one character or all of them now...
  • Options
    orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    Here on console, I haven't had a peep out of the loadout system.

    However that's because I pick a colour of pew pew per character and stick with it. One loadout per ship. Save it once on board whichever station then off outside to sort the boffs out, save once again.

    Traits however......those are a constant annoyance that rear their heads if you don't keep your eye on them.
  • Options
    cannydogcannydog Member Posts: 147 Arc User
    I'm pretty sure players who don't have many characters or many ships have few issues with the Loadout System. And on some of my characters I don't have too much trouble. But still this system is such a mess. I have to agree with the opening Post. Just do away with it... Doing so won't hurt those who don't have issues and it may be the only thing that does help those who do.

    Personally, I recently started playing a character I hadn't played in a while... My problem is NOW with ground gear. It keeps on setting it back to a set I no longer want to use. And NOTHING that I've tried will rectify the situation. So what do I do? Just not play that character? If your answer is yes then you are just being unreasonable. (I won't say more!)
  • Options
    seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    edited June 2022
    cannydog wrote: »
    Just do away with it... Doing so won't hurt those who don't have issues and it may be the only thing that does help those who do.

    This statement makes absolutely no sense. Those that currently use the system without problem would absolutely be effected by it's removal. I use it all the time to swap between DPS and Tank oriented loadouts on a few of my ships and would be most irritated if the system was just removed.

    Again, I am not trying to minimalize the impact on people that have issues, this isn't me trying to say it works fine for me so nothing should be done. Obviously, there are issues with this system, some people can't use it at all and that needs to be fixed. Again though, I remind you that the people that have issues will be the ones posting on the forum, the people that have no issue with the system just use it and be happy. For this reason, if you just look at forums it looks as if everyone has issues with the system which simply isn't true.

    I am no Cryptic Cheerleader, that's for sure.. but I do sympathize with them on this one. The fact that it's completely unusable by some players and completely fine for others must make this issue very difficult to diagnose and I suspect that it contributes to the amount of time this has taken. Still, I can't argue that 8 years is reasonable at all.

    Advocating for getting it fixed is justified. This issue should be pushed to the top of the priority list of bugs as it's debilitating to some players. It's a serious issue that needs to be addressed urgently.

    Advocating for it's removal is short sided and selfish and does nothing but focus on a subset of players that cannot use the system. There are other players in the game, and their experience matters just as much as yours.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • Options
    nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 1,290 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    The fact that it's completely unusable by some players and completely fine for others must make this issue very difficult to diagnose and I suspect that it contributes to the amount of time this has taken. Still, I can't argue that 8 years is reasonable at all.

    Taking years to investigate a bug like this and still having no resolution or fix for it is incompetence, no matter how complex the code is.

    clearly you do not know much about programming. if a module was created by Dev 1 who left 3 years ago, do you think new hire dev 4 will know anything about the coding? even going through line by line you might not catch something, since it ties into so many different modules. Code or hardware, anyone who know much about troubleshooting will tell you intermittent problems are a nightmare to fix
    u7acy6aymfw7.gif
    We Need BERETS in the tailor
  • Options
    nuketfnuketf Member Posts: 51 Arc User
    The load out system works fine for me.. I even use it on my main ship.

    Load out one - turns my ship into a massive immobile defense base
    Load out two - turns my ship into a slow moving boss ship, with lots of forward facing power!
    AKA, Beard of borg. Owner of the title "Should have left"
  • Options
    vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,886 Arc User
    all these programming experst should apply for a job with cryptic. but then they would not have anything to whine about
    sig.jpg
  • Options
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Workarounds don't solve the problem. They just mitigate. I have no doubt they're trying to track down the cause, but we have to consider we're talking lots of speggetti code, so trying to figure out which one is an issue can take time.

    Just because something isn't fixed five minutes ago doesn't mean they're not working on it.

    5 minutes ago?
    Problems with the Loadout System have been going over 8 years now. I have posts early in the first page going that far back, it's the same stuff.



    Also to remove the system and revert back to what we had before is not very smart.
    Why? Because sometimes we would end up with weird issues -costly weird issues for some.
    For example back in 2013 I had two ships that disappeared from my account after deleting ONE weapon.
    Simply gone. Pfft. Almost like the ship was tied to the weapon and deleting destroyed the ship.
    Don't remember the ships anyway now -nor care I have moved on to Freedom.
    Since the loadouts this hasn't happened -strange but true.

    I can understand not wanting to use loadouts -especially if it has burned you in the past.
    Which I assume that you have used it since you have 12 Loadout slots available and the default is only two to start with.

    Though just because you may not find it helpful doesn't mean others don't find it beneficial. Also for Star Trek Online as a whole to remove it may be detrimental to player base if its removed. For the sole reason that those who "depend" on it may just rage quit for its removal.
    Best to keep all and loose no one.
    Still c'est la vie.
  • Options
    theboxisredtheboxisred Member Posts: 457 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    all these programming experst should apply for a job with cryptic. but then they would not have anything to whine about

    I believe this is a case as @corinthalas mentioned above. The problem is not entirely on the programmers - the problem is the management prioritizing other things besides fixing long standing, game breaking bugs. Cryptic can hire dozens of programmers. Unless they have proper management, it will not matter.

    A good point, and well made.

    I would also suggest that it is also an issue of resource allocation insofar as funding. There seems to be quite a focus on getting Star Trek legacy actors to reprise their roles, which is more costly than a minor story adjustment that would allow for new characters at a reduced rate.

    I believe it is an ancient Algonquin proverb that says, "A broken game pays no bills." There is a chance that I have misattributed that quote.
  • Options
    orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 837 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    all these programming experst should apply for a job with cryptic. but then they would not have anything to whine about

    I believe this is a case as @corinthalas mentioned above. The problem is not entirely on the programmers - the problem is the management prioritizing other things besides fixing long standing, game breaking bugs. Cryptic can hire dozens of programmers. Unless they have proper management, it will not matter.

    A good point, and well made.

    I would also suggest that it is also an issue of resource allocation insofar as funding. There seems to be quite a focus on getting Star Trek legacy actors to reprise their roles, which is more costly than a minor story adjustment that would allow for new characters at a reduced rate.

    I believe it is an ancient Algonquin proverb that says, "A broken game pays no bills." There is a chance that I have misattributed that quote.

    They may well be shooting for the Wargaming revolving door style of F2P.

    Get them in with the big VAs, get them to spend 50 buckaroos or more, then who cares if they stick around. Can't complain if they aren't playing, which is another benefit.

    However they've made it clear they want the whales too, they also don't complain much either.

  • Options
    baddmoonrizinbaddmoonrizin Member Posts: 10,430 Community Moderator
    Well, this discussion has run its course since it's devolved into Cryptic bashing. Loadouts have been addressed in recent patches, and they aren't going anywhere. /thread
    GrWzQke.png
    Star Trek Online Volunteer Community Moderator and Resident She-Wolf
    Community Moderators are Unpaid Volunteers and NOT Employees of Gearbox/Cryptic
    Views and Opinions May Not Reflect the Views and Opinions of Gearbox/Cryptic
    ----> Contact Customer Support <----
    Moderation Problems/Issues? Please contact the Community Manager
    Terms of Service / Community Rules and Policies / FCT
    Want the latest information on Star Trek Online?
    Facebook / Twitter / Twitch
This discussion has been closed.