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please delete, too much trolling
faxmachine
Member Posts: 120 Arc User
too much trolling in this thread and talking about other shows not the actual show strange new worlds.
plus there is already a thread in ten forward about the actual show strange ne world s so just delete this thread.
plus there is already a thread in ten forward about the actual show strange ne world s so just delete this thread.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Still, as long it's getting out of the grim, darkness of the far future there is only bleakness......and Tilly.
Yes indeed. Discovery: The Star Trek that puts 'gender' on it's 'Agenda'.
I'm all for everyone having equal rights (if its not harming others; people can do what they want and call themselves whatever they like) - but I don't want to hear about it every 5 seconds, especially if the charactors being potrayed are boring, and uninteresting.
I just wish Discovery writers would learn that being 'different' is not the same as being 'interesting'. You can be 'different' AND interesting, but (for me) it seems every charactor that is portrayed as 'different' are completely defined by it, rather than it being just a part of thier overall persona.
For instance you have Stammet and his partner who is a ga y doctor. Seriously I cant even remember his partners name. All's I've ever seen him do is dress like a Doctor, and been told he is ga y. He's had no character development (apart from one melodramatic storyline where he leaves stammet, which was a bit interesting, but then that gets retconned).
Dr Pulaski (as much as I disliked her) was completely memorable to me, even though she was only in TNG for one season. She had a personality, she had a background, she had an actual opinion, she was a well written and interesting (if annoying) character. I can remember most of her story lines, even though I've not watched season 2 of TNG for a long time.
Compared to Discovery, I don't really remember the background or character development of most of the cast. Michael spends most of her time either being 'defiant' or crying (that seems to sum up her entire character). Saru (my favourate person in Discovery) had a fantastic storyline and great character development - but since he lost his 'fear' he hasnt really developed any further. And then there is Tilly. I don't know what her purpose is (comic releif?) her character does not seemed to have developed at all since season 1 (imho).
So I really do hope the next spin off from Star Trek will have better writers who want to tell us stories, rather than tell us how 'inclusive' they can be.
By all means be 'inclusive', I don't care if they have an entire ship manned by non-binary, asexual ginger people in leotards. As long as the story is interesting and the characters have an actual personality.
Edited as the word 'g ay' was turned to 'tribble'?!
SJW anti culture has turned into honestly a joke, who thinks twitter controls public discourse. If you think its all because those damn SJWs causing this, It is all business. They cater to what their data says is the bigger audience. So when they "cancel" something it is just the corporation running the numbers and ending or changing something they believe will get them the most return in the end. It's why back in the 80s and 90s satanic panic caused DND to remove demons and devils from its game, or stores to remove anything that could be seen as satanist from their shelves. Because at the time self reported religious followers where much higher then people who did not report being religious.
Its no different now these companies are just catering to the audience they think is bigger. But there is also companies and people who cater to the anti-culture so if you find your self more in that camp, there is entertainment out there for you too.
I just want a bridge that is brighter, I also want more character driven plots beyond a couple characters. Something more like DS9 pulled off with it's cast.
For example, I am not sure how Michael starts out being a stoic Vulcan and ends up an emotional roller coaster. I think it is a lack of character continuity…which is probably indicative of weak writing. But I don’t think the poor writing is related to liberal agendas. Yeah and many of the characters are just there for sassy quips and not actually given character arcs or personal stories. But I strongly doubt those characters being women or feminist or homosexual or transgendered has anything to do with the problems in the writing.
IMHO there is a massive difference between doing something well and...well, not doing it well. (that's a lot of "wells")
But seriously, this is what I mean. Back in "the day", it wasn't really acceptable to discuss certain topics on TV. That means if writers wanted to address those topics, they had to be really clever and tell a really a truly good story to get their message across.
Fast forward to 2022 and it's completely acceptable to discuss all of the modern "SJW" topics on TV. And because it's completely acceptable, the writers no longer have the same pressure to be as clever and do it as well as writers did in the past. IMHO.
Doing these stories well can make a person think "wow, these people really are like me and deserve to be treated equally". Doing these stories "not well" tends to be annoying/preachy and push people further into their ideological corners.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I am paying attention, I still watch TOS etc. To this day many of social change episodes were very heavy handed. I really think you need to re-watch it and frame your mind as some one from the 60s. IF you can't I don't know what to tell you, your intentionally being obtuse to appeal to some social group you want to be apart of. I'm not saying that they can't handle the way in which they discuss topics better, hell I think the whole way starwars did the character Ray from the new trilogy is a different kind of sexism. The writing style that discovery has is not my cup of tea, and I would handle much of it differently, but saying that TOS wasn't pushy is a big stretch.
That's why I'd rather say it's a writing issue rather then a agenda pushing one. It more has to do with how they present their characters and their plots. TNG was full of episodes like this, TOS also had some stinkers too. Also I wouldn't say its completely acceptable, especially in my area full of hateful bigotry.
And I know it's buried in subtext, but the TNG episode "Angel One" was about sexism! And "Symbiosis" was about the use of drugs to control a population!
Kids, it's *always* "pushed an agenda". And it's hardly *ever* been "subtle" - and for the "used to hide them in good stories" crowd, go rewatch the episodes I just named. They make the new stuff look like Twain.
(not referring to sex in that the immoral statement (although I don't need love scenes in Star Trek either), more about ppl in respectable roles making immoral choices and/or acting immoral (really wish I wouldn't have to explain that in parentheses, I'm scared not to explain, thx woke society.))
I'm actually OK with "that kind of Trek" existing as long as it's not the ONLY kind of new Trek that is being made. And that's the problem; so far ALL new Trek has been that kind of stuff.
I can only hope SNW doesn't go that route. And I actually don't think it will. From everything I have seen/read/heard they are genuinely trying to make this a more hopeful show more similar to 'old school' Trek.
Again, I'm fine with there being more than one "kind" of Trek. Just don't try to make ALL new Trek the same.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Profanity is normal, I would hardly call it immoral. Drug use is also normal, and has been shown since the original series with alcohol. While I do agree the disrespectful behavior is a part I don't like, I can't say there has never been any disrespect in the series as a whole, heck doctor MacCoy use to say all sorts of offensive stuff to Spock all the time I never liked that either though.
No..it really isn't. In the 60s TOS S2 - "A Private Little War" was VERY political - it even REFERENCED the (ongoing at the time) Vietnam war directly (though not by it's specific name):
KIRK: Bones, do you remember the twentieth century brush wars on the Asian continent? Two giant powers involved, much like the Klingons and ourselves. Neither side felt could pull out.
MCCOY: Yes, I remember. It went on bloody year after bloody year.
^^^
Various high profile TV personalities were being censored at the time for saying LESS.
So yes, please, go on trying to claim earlier Star Trek was never political, or occasionally pushed agendas in its stories. <--- That claim won't be accurate or truthful, but if it makes you feel better...
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Deze video is niet beschikbaar."
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
His name is Hugh Culber. And I actually liked him. He was one of the few likable characters from Discovery's first season.
And he actually got a lot of character development. At some point he confronts Tyler, almost breaks up with Stamets because of what happened to him... He's clearly a different person and has been affected greatly by what happened.
The couple was written well too.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Yeah some continuity would be nice.
That means I also hope they reinstate an old custom of Trek: bringing in characters from previous series in the pilot episode.
TNG had McCoy, DS9 had Picard show up, Voyager had Quark, Enterprise had Cochrane (which was one of the few options available of course), even the Kelvin movies had TOS's Spock.
Hopefully SNW can show us T'Pol or Soval, and relaunch that tradition.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Really? Just go and take a look at: TOS S3 - "Let This Be Your Last Battlefield" (done near the height of the Civil Rights movement of the 60s - which WAS NOT popular in the Southern U.S. states) - the message there is about a subtle as a ton of bricks. I did read what you said, and understood quite clearly. You OTOH probably weren't watching Star Trek at the time a lot of its messages were more controversial until this current era of Star Trek, so yeah, I can see how you might believe the 'messaging' was 'more subtle'/'different'/'not as politically charged' -- and you'd be wrong.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
Now as a regular forumite... I am excite.
A lot of that has to do with the difference in genre, and to a lesser degree the format and the "show, not tell" philosophy in scriptwriting.
Traditional Star Trek was soft sci-fi, its focus was exploring questions and ramifications of the soft sciences (which include a lot of things some people look down on with contempt and call "SJW" nowadays), and used drama to drive the stories.
The format of full seasons of aprox. 26 episodes, many written by outside authors, made the shooting schedule incredibly tight, which in turn made any errors that were not caught in the initial filming extremely expensive to reshoot since it could put the next episode behind schedule. That is the reason for the "James R. Kirk" headstone, the "proximity detonation phasers" and other errors that have since been explained (usually rather well) in other ways that are reasonable for the background. It is also the reason why some scripts were more polished than others (and a few awful ones).
NuTrek on the other hand has so far been almost exclusively simple Space Opera, which focuses on the action and eyecandy and uses melodrama rather than drama.
Fuller apparently created the character of Burnham with a complex, bimodal personality that would shift between Human and Vulcan modes and needed an actress who could handle the constant shifting smoothly and cleanly, from hints in his responses when asked about why he held the show up waiting for Sonequa Martin-Green to be released from The Walking Dead. In a drama that kind of a character is interesting, but in a melodrama they have to be pretty much over-the-top and ridiculous to even be noticed in the emotional spam of the rest of the characters.
And this is coming from someone who grew up with TNG rather than TOS.
Nowadays a lot of the older shows and their controvertial topics just make for good stories. But back then I wouldn't be surprised if things were a bit more obvious. 15-20 years from now some of the more controvertial stuff in current Trek shows will be seen by new fans in the same light as we see some of the stuff from older Trek today. Good stories and not really look at the social-political aspects of it.
They do make a cute couple.
As for the other characters, Joanna Owosekun was raised on a sort of space-Amish colony, is a remarkably skilled hand-to-hand fighter especially when there's no rulebook, and her best friend is Keyla Detmer, the helm officer. Keyla's finally forgiven Burnham for what happened aboard Shenzhou, and has shown herself to be highly intelligent and level-headed in a crisis. We're still not sure what the device on her head is, but a smaller version is apparently necessary even with 32nd-century medical science. Jett Reno, engineer and smartass supreme, uses humor to cover both impatience and vulnerability; her wife died early on in the Klingon conflict. Adira Tal, the first human that we know of to successfully carry a Trill symbiont long-term, is a good scientist with a specialty in high-energy physics, and nonbinary (they use they/them pronouns). This may have contributed to the success in carrying the symbiont, as Trill are far less wedded to gender identity than the average human, and Adira's desire not to be either male or female might make it easier for the symbiont to bond with them mentally. Is there anyone else you'd like to know about?
(Note that all of this is derived from on-screen information only, the sort of thing you'd know by watching the show.)
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.