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And so it ends.

colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 1,904 Arc User
So now that so many of us have been forced out of the game by this questionable policy requiring Windows 10, I wanted to post some parting thoughts. To be clear, this is not an "I quit" post, because I'm not quitting, I'm being forced out. I was here at the very start, I had expected to be here til the end, but it appears that won't be happening now. This post is bound to get a bit long, but I have a lot to say, so bear with me.

I'm a Star Trek fan. It would be fair to say that Star Trek has been formative in my life, that it contributed significantly to the child I was, and the man I became. I'm certain I'm not the only one who could say that. Star Trek is more than just a TV show to many of us, it's part of who we ARE.

So, when the game was announced, I signed up immediately. The idea of "living" in the Star Trek world was just so appealing. I've always been a gamer, and designed my own games many times over the years. I even ran a Star Trek RPG at University of Guelph that lasted nearly 11 years, and is STILL talked about now, 30 years later. I wanted to offer that experience and knowledge to the developers, so I posted often on the old forums, giving advice and constructive criticism. I wanted Star Trek Online to be the best MMO ever produced. But as we all know, there were many issues in the early development process, and it has never reached its potential.

By the time the game launched, I was a bit worried about its direction. To start with, it was incorporating material from JJTrek, which I regarded as an abomination best considered apocryphal. More than that, there were some design issues I was concerned by. There seemed to be precious little exploration, and nothing of the moral/ethical stories that defined Star Trek. But, we were assured the game would add that sort of thing as time went on, they had been forced to launch the game before it was ready.

There was plenty of evidence of this. Ship textures and models were pretty shabby, ship interiors were only barely implemented, and badly at that. There seemed to be little more to the game than battle. There was a decent foundation though, so I was hopeful.

As the years went by, my hopes were dashed again and again. Simple things were being done wrong. I mean, ships were being released with their textures UPSIDE DOWN. There are still some textures in the game that are upside down, and have been since launch (eg. TOS Rear Admiral stripes). As time went by, I was less and less inclined to be generous about these kinds of careless errors. They suggested either incompetence or indifference... and I didn't like either option. What little exploration we had was removed, and when we tried to create some exploration stories ourselves using the Foundry, THAT was removed as well. There are STILL no stories focused on exploration or on moral or ethical considerations.

I posted frequently, hoping they could turn things around, and concerned that if they didn't, it would spell the end of the game, and the waste of SO much potential. My frustration and worry more and more frequently turned to anger, and I've occasionally posted rather uncomplimentary things. Aware of this, I have always tried to post compliments when something is done that I approve of... but there have been so few things like that for me to compliment them for.

Eventually, Perfect World took over, and with that the game was essentially dead. I'm sure many will tell me the game is still running, and has been for many years, but I will respectfully disagree. The GAME is dead, the STORE is doing quite well. Between the loot boxes and the pay to win content from the microtransaction store, Star Trek Online is still around, but the game itself has been essentially abandoned.

There is NO game balance anymore. It actually used to be pretty good. They had three classes, Science, Tactical and Engineering, and they had three ship types at each tier. The ships were all the same except for their appearance. This assured balance, which was important since they wanted to include PvP. Of course, Perfect World doesn't care about that, all they want is more money, even if it means breaking the game balance. So pay to win got to the store, and it's become worse and worse as time has passed. Now, nothing makes it into the game unless it can be immediately monetized. I remember a time when you would do your best to make a good game, and make money because people wanted to play it. These days, it's all microtransactions for pay to win or exclusive cosmetics or gambleboxes. I miss the old way.

The game barely resembles Star Trek. This is a crippling failure, because much of the reason people play is BECAUSE it's Star Trek. As a space combat game, it's really pretty weak. The balance is terrible and the mechanics are very basic and weakly implemented. So, it's the fact that it is Star Trek that is crucial to retaining players. Over the years, however, the game has moved further and further from Star Trek. Between the ever-growing number of non-canon ships, ships from enemy factions, ships from other dimensions, ships from other time periods, and the complete abandonment of any kind of moralistic or intelligent storytelling, this game just doesn't look or play like Star Trek anymore.

Consider how many times James Kirk destroyed enemy ships in combat. In Balance of Terror, he disabled the Romulans, but they destroyed themselves. In Journey to Babel, he disabled the Orions, but they destroyed themselves. There was a brief skirmish with a Klingon in Elaan of Troyius, but they ran away. The Ultimate Computer had Enterprise fighting Federation ships, but that was the M5, not Kirk. In Day of the Dove, he did destroy Kang's ship, but only after it was evacuated, and only after it had been crippled by the hate entity. Even the Reliant was spared, and was destroyed by Khan, NOT Kirk. In fact, the only episode I can think of that was just a battle was The Doomsday Machine... which was ALSO still focused largely on the characters. The battle was just the backdrop for the conflict between Spock and Decker, and Kirk's fight to get Constellation moving. I destroyed 6 ships in my very first mission in STO. Destroying things isn't what Star Trek is about.

Star Trek has never been about the battles. Even episodes that WERE about battles weren't about the battles. Balance of Terror was about the decisions Kirk was making, his anguish at putting his ship and crew at risk. In Arena, he battled a Gorn, but the episode was actually about understanding, tolerance and mercy. The most important thing about Star Trek has always been the CHARACTERS, their decisions and the reasons for them. Star Trek Online (and most other Star Trek games, to be fair) completely misses this. A system for interacting with NPCs needed to be incorporated into the game (perhaps something like Star Wars The Old Republic Online has). But then, Cryptic has completely abandoned any effort to make this game about Star Trek. All we see now is JJTrek, Discovery, Picard and nonstop endless battles and killing. It's been some considerable time since I actually enjoyed Star Trek Online as STAR TREK.

It's a shame, too, because the art department has really stepped up their game. Newer ship models look fantastic (when they're depicting ships from the older shows; the new ones, while screen accurate, look ridiculous). Maps and environments look great. It's just too bad the actual gameplay doesn't reach for the same standard of excellence. That's not to say there aren't still problems. Scale continues to be an issue. NPCs that are a KNOWN height (because we know how tall the actors are) stand absurdly tall (eg. Worf in this game is probably something like 10' tall, while Michael Dorn is 6'1"). Chairs and tables just never stand at the correct heights, and are never close enough to one another that you actually appear to be sitting at the table. Many uniforms and costumes, as well as ship textures, that have had issues for years CONTINUE to have issues. The TOS Rear Admiral's stripes are upside down. The windows of the Cochrane Class ship don't sit ON the ship, they've all been shifted UP slightly (meaning the registry and other effects on the underside of the saucer are actually clipped up inside the model and are invisible). I could go on and on with this one, minor visual errors. There are many audio errors, too. For instance, we know what Romulan disruptor cannons sound like, but the ones in the game sound nothing like them. What gets me is that these are such simple things to fix... but they are being left as they are. I'm not a programmer, but I'll bet I could fix those Rear Admiral's stripes or the clipping windows in about 2 minutes. It's just careless and ignorant to leave them when they've been TOLD about these problems many times over the years. This ignorance is something we've seen many times over the years. For example, they KNOW people want to have the title of Commodore... but they flat out refuse to add it. There's no reason not to add it (especially once they had TOS characters in the game), they just refuse in order to be ignorant. And then they wonder why there's frequently so much animosity.

The biggest issue, though, is probably the lack of balance. The game is only about combat, so you might expect them to get it right, but instead they've just flat out broken it. It's not even a matter of PvP balance, it's affecting the PvE content too. There are players in the game that can do SO much damage they can instantly wipe out whole groups of enemy ships in the blink of an eye, even enemies intended for large groups. Just ONE of these players in a PvE match can completely ruin the scenario for the whole rest of the team, as the team will have nothing to DO. In addition, the developers insist on making newer content harder and harder to accomodate those high DPS players, which puts the newer content out of reach of the more average players. It makes the game increasingly unplayable.

I'd always hoped they would expand on what the game could DO. I'd always hoped they would give all the classes some activity. I mean, combat characters can do their job, but there's nothing in the game for science or engineering officers. I offered a suggestion about dividing crafting into two phases: gathering (Research) and crafting (Engineering) that gave both classes something to do that was relevant to their jobs, but the idea was ignored (as usual). This lack of depth undermines the game's status as an MMO, and reduces its depth to almost nothing. Consider; what is the purpose of Sector Space? There's nothing THERE. Nothing actually happens in Sector Space, it's all just instances, and you don't even need to travel to them anymore, you just enter them from a queue. What purpose does our Away Team serve? They don't DO anything. I'm the Captain, why am I scanning the rocks instead of my Science Officer? Why isn't the Doctor doing the medical activities? Why isn't the Security Officer overriding the force fields and other security systems? The game doesn't even PRETEND to be an actual MMO anymore, it's just an online action game. There's nothing wrong with that, I just wanted something deeper.

So, they're taking the game away from me... but I'm realizing that they never GAVE me the game I signed up for all those years ago. I've really only kept coming back and playing in the vain hope that they would come to their senses and make the game all it could be... but it's too late. It's been too late for many years now. They can't change things as radically now as they would need to, the backlash from the players, especially those who have already paid to win, would destroy what there is left here. They've so completely abandoned anything but combat that there's just no way to add anything now. Such basic systems as they would need to create aren't something they could monetize, so they'll never be implemented.

But the game will go on, at least for a time. I expect they'll lose perhaps a third, maybe even half of their population to this Windows 10 requirement, but they'll carry on with a smaller playerbase, at least for a little while. I do hope the people who enjoy the game as it is continue to do so. I wanted more from the game, but if it makes you happy as it is, then that's great. I'm just sorry it couldn't have been less Space Battles Online and more Star Trek Online.

And with that, I bid the game and the players farewell. I'll keep one eye on the forums to see if anything positive actually ever happens, and if I do upgrade my operating system someday, I might actually return (if the game is still around)... but I'm not holding my breath. I hope my comments here will be seen by the developers as constructive criticism... because you never know.

Farewell Captains, and adieu. o7

Captain S. Neish
General Lord Marik
Commander Eatham
Captain Skorr
Commander Karik
Captain J. Clark
Lt. Commander S. Neish
Captain A. Shein
Lt. Stene
Lt. H. Gulaag
First Tak'kalabam
Post edited by rattler2 on
Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.

Comments

  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,143 Arc User
    some good points and i always welcome posts that offer insight as to why people make the choice such as yourself.

    no need to get into details about win7 vs win10, as there are plenty of threads and reasons regarding that.

    i would hope that the new company to take this over can parse details from the forums about how STO is perceived and make choices to point the game in a better direction...but only time can show us that.

    peace out mate.
  • orangenee#2931 orangenee Member Posts: 791 Arc User
    I use Linux on my work (read;only) laptop, Windows has gotten progressively less secure over the years but more obnoxious to use. Win 10 was terrible trash garbage.

    Just imagine the extra screen garbage we can get with DX11 only!!!!

    Maybe the new owners will change things for the better but considering the industry these days......

    In any case, take care.
  • psymantispsymantis Member Posts: 317 Arc User
    Just in case you don't know, if your internet is good you can play it through Geforce Now on Windows 7 with their client or through a browser.
  • chalpenchalpen Member Posts: 2,206 Arc User
    edited February 16
    Balance? What are you balancing?
    Too be honest, this is the strangest game I have ever played. There is no need to get a single thing (except this ship and character improvement things they introduced last year).
    No legendary packs or lockbox needed
    With the ships you can buy without real money you can do everything.
    These guys don’t even want my money! I am begging to give them money for content and my money isn’t good enough for them. So they get nutin’.
    I have never heard of a company that doesn’t want my money. How do they survive?

    And three times a year the move the plot forward. You don’t even need to play that. I don’t until I get a bunch of episodes I can play at once, so maybe once a year.

    I have been playing since open beta and am using a windows surface 7.
    How many good games can run in a windows surface?
    Should I start posting again after all this time?
  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,621 Arc User
    Not sure I agree on the balance bit. Sure, they were quicker/willing to nerf things in the past, but back when I joined in 2012 the game was already called "Escorts Online" by a lot of people, for good reason. Builds that didn't fit that mold(Feedback Pulse, Tricobalt Bombers, etc.) were quickly crushed into oblivion. I was dumb/brave enough to do some torpedo builds back that got pretty close in damage parity, but they were never as flexible or efficient as the DHC Defiant/JHAS 'meta'.

    After Delta Rising, with the addition of Comm Arrays and starship traits, the meta shifted over to BFAW Cruisers because it was actually sustainable beyond quirky 'dragon' builds. (Drain builds were actually really amazing around this time as well, but largely flew under the radar because taking shields offline and removing over half of a mob's health and all their defenses doesn't "parse" as a dps number.)

    There's been plenty of ebb and flow since then; the current FOMO being exotic/torp boats.


    I do agree on the point of 'soul' and perceived effort having long past left this game though. Again, when I joined, this game felt more like a sandbox, a galaxy you could roam around in, explore, and do what you want(I leveled my first character to max without even completing the first story arc). Then, the game kind of threw its setting out the window to cash in on the latest shiny - effectively becoming a virtual 'Star Trek Theme Park'. These days, I'd probably just call it a virtual 'Star Trek Souvenir Stall'.. You're expected to pay for overpriced trinkets and maybe ride the same carousel that has been repainted so many times it's probably doubled in mass.
  • livinlifejb90#4082 livinlifejb90 Member Posts: 218 Arc User
    unfortunately OP, video gaming is becoming an activity that depends on income and not for the love of games.​​
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  • nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 999 Arc User
    ok.. support stopped for widows 7. is the game actually saying OOPS you are running windows 7 we are not going to let you play?

    also, no one is taking the game from you, OP. Microsoft gave plenty or heads up, and it was YOUR decision to not upgrade. if your computer is an i3 i5 i7 it will run w10 just fine.
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    We Need BERETS in the tailor
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    nixie50 wrote: »
    ok.. support stopped for widows 7. is the game actually saying OOPS you are running windows 7 we are not going to let you play?

    also, no one is taking the game from you, OP. Microsoft gave plenty or heads up, and it was YOUR decision to not upgrade. if your computer is an i3 i5 i7 it will run w10 just fine.

    Agreed, OP is not being forced out he's opting to leave.

    Which makes this an 'I quit' thread, but fine.. let him have his parting shot.

    Live long and prosper.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • qultuqqultuq Member Posts: 709 Arc User
    edited February 16
    There is a walkthrough on Reddit about running Windows 10 on a thumb drive. You can still find Windows 10 for free too. It isn’t too late.

    Basically you install Windows 10 on the drive and set CMOS to boot from the drive before it boots from the hard disk. But you could easily do the same with an external drive, or partition.

    https://www.reddit.com/r/sto/comments/sgzdd2/guide_surviving_the_windows_7_discontinuation_for/

    https://www.zdnet.com/article/heres-how-you-can-still-get-a-free-windows-10-upgrade/
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,841 Arc User
    Of all the reasons to quit the game, it's 'They are unwilling to optimize for a EOL OS'? That's not even something you can blame Cryptic/PWE for.
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    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • kingzissoukingzissou Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    I can’t believe the OP actually spent time writing all this. I didn’t get past the first sentence.
  • live8evillive8evil Member Posts: 62 Arc User
    "I expect they'll lose perhaps a third, maybe even half of their population to this Windows 10 requirement..."

    First of all: win 10 is not required, but win 7 is not being supported anymore - you could use windows 8 or 8.1 for example, maybe even windows 10 or 11, if you feel specialy avanturistic.

    and second: third to half of player base..? I admit windows 7 has a strong user base, but those users usualy arent gamers, since a typical gamer upgraded ages ago to win 10 for the unrelated, but similar requirement - you need windows 10 to run dx12.

    Kudos for glorious farewell - and goodbye.
  • rascally8abbit#2284 rascally8abbit Member Posts: 36 Arc User
    In many ways I hope this cutting off win 7 will result in large number of players no longer playing, then they will see the mistake they made and instead of forcing out players work with the base. Yes Win 7 is old, yes there has been win 10 and now win 11 but you should always try to avoid cutting support if you can determine a large % were still using it. I support the OP problems with losing 7.

    I love how some say they should have planned for this. Well there could be many reasons they don't have win 10. Incompat parts or software they must run. Not everyone can go out and buy replacement stuff that will work with Win 10. Also many people maybe don't have an upgrade license for win 10 as their win 7 might have been an oem or some version that can't be upgraded without buying it.

    I have installed Win 10 not because I wanted to but to play this game I have been forced to be assimilated into Win 10. I had plan to build the Win10 system in spring time so I had more time to deal with any issues.

    So for those who are attacking the op comments, how about if they said you could only play with a certain cpu that is above yours, sure you would be complaining and how would you like someone to say oh that cpu is old go buy a new one get with the times
  • volticuavolticua Member Posts: 102 Arc User
    F
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,841 Arc User
    > @rascally8abbit#2284 said:
    > So for those who are attacking the op comments, how about if they said you could only play with a certain cpu that is above yours, sure you would be complaining and how would you like someone to say oh that cpu is old go buy a new one get with the times

    Is this the first time you have to upgrade your system in order to play games? I mean, for PC gamers, this is how things work. My 6 year old PC can not reliably play the most recent games. Many of them, but not all. I have to upgrade to play in the future.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 4,646 Arc User

    Not everyone can go out and buy replacement stuff that will work with Win 10. Also many people maybe don't have an upgrade license for win 10 as their win 7 might have been an oem or some version that can't be upgraded without buying it.

    I have an 11 year old laptop and a 7 year old laptop, BOTH are upgraded to Win 10, even though they have OEM versions, and the laptops are different make. Win 10 runs BETTER on them than Win 7 does AND the game ran better when I upgraded them years back. MS offered a free Win 10 upgrade to ALL Win 7 users, they didn't limit it. I just don't get the reasoning for not switching. As much as I liked Win 7, I find Win 10 just as good. People should just swallow their pride and upgrade.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • trejgontrejgon Member Posts: 323 Arc User
    leemwatson wrote: »

    Not everyone can go out and buy replacement stuff that will work with Win 10. Also many people maybe don't have an upgrade license for win 10 as their win 7 might have been an oem or some version that can't be upgraded without buying it.

    I have an 11 year old laptop and a 7 year old laptop, BOTH are upgraded to Win 10, even though they have OEM versions, and the laptops are different make. Win 10 runs BETTER on them than Win 7 does AND the game ran better when I upgraded them years back. MS offered a free Win 10 upgrade to ALL Win 7 users, they didn't limit it. I just don't get the reasoning for not switching. As much as I liked Win 7, I find Win 10 just as good. People should just swallow their pride and upgrade.

    Well teeeechnically speaking there is a small subset of laptops/netbooks that ran win7 that do not fill in minimal requirements for win10. I had one of these myself, and I got it upgraded durign that "free" upgrade to win8, purely because it would appear that particular upgrade did not check if GPU is capable of handling the resolutions required for the new UI (spoiler alert it didn't)
    But then that laptop was barely able to handle STO even back in 2014.....

    That being said I find people that complains about MMOs ending support to win7, just as weird as the ones who complained about MMOs ending support for WindowsXP couple years back - I mean for real, why are yall still using OSes that not even their creators support anymore....

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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,774 Arc User
    I expect they'll lose perhaps a third, maybe even half of their population to this Windows 10 requirement

    The fact that you believe this is laughable. Cryptic definitely has data on how much of the playerbase still uses Windows 7, and they wouldn't have gone through with this yet if it was anything close to what you suggest. This is a cost vs benefit decision, it costs money to continue to make the game compatible for Windows 7, if there was a sufficient Windows 7 playerbase to make it profitable then they would still do it but the fact is most gamers moved on years ago which means Cryptic would lose money by maintaining Windows 7 compatibility.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    In many ways I hope this cutting off win 7 will result in large number of players no longer playing, then they will see the mistake they made and instead of forcing out players work with the base.

    You can hope, but like the OP you will be disappointed. This effects a very small portion of the player base, at most. And again, no one is forced out of anything, if you are still on Windows 7 it's because you have chosen to remain on Windows 7.

    trejgon wrote: »
    Well teeeechnically speaking there is a small subset of laptops/netbooks that ran win7 that do not fill in minimal requirements for win10.

    Windows 7 and Windows 10 system requirements are identical. In fact, Windows 10 is actually lighter on most hardware then Windows 7. The only time a Windows 7 device would have a problem with Windows 10 is if they have an old piece of hardware that doesn't have a Windows 10 device driver available. This case is rather rare, but even then that is an issue with the device not with the Operating System. If it can run Windows 7, it can also run Windows 10.

    Those who are under the impression that a large section of the player base will be effected are delusional.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • trejgontrejgon Member Posts: 323 Arc User
    Windows 7 and Windows 10 system requirements are identical. In fact, Windows 10 is actually lighter on most hardware then Windows 7. The only time a Windows 7 device would have a problem with Windows 10 is if they have an old piece of hardware that doesn't have a Windows 10 device driver available. This case is rather rare, but even then that is an issue with the device not with the Operating System. If it can run Windows 7, it can also run Windows 10.

    Those who are under the impression that a large section of the player base will be effected are delusional.

    They are not identical - Windows 10 has a minimal required supported screen resolution - well to be fair windows 8 already had it sort of, but it was not checked for, and only issue you would have if your PC did not support it would be to access those few bits of system configurations that were only accessible through those metro UI apps.

    I do have a netbook that came preinstalled with Win7, was hilarious experience to run Win8 on it, and update to win10 has actively told me that it cannot go through, because PC does not meet minimal hardware requirement (highest resolution supported by GPU was lower than minimal win10 requires). I have no doubts tho that the margin of hardware with this issue is extremely small. And well if you didn't have GPU to support that resolution then I doubt that you would be able to run STO in 2022 anyway :)

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  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    This game was designed and released when win 7 was the dominant OS. It isn't unreasonable to expect that to stay supported for the lifetime of the product. Is it difficult for the devs? Yeah, but too bad.

    I'm on my third computer to run this game, now, and I can't recall what the original system was, I think an Athlon dual core. The game has never been that demanding.

    That said, it does seem a bit odd to not upgrade at this point.
  • sheldonlcoopersheldonlcooper Member Posts: 4,042 Arc User
    I doubt that they will lose more than 1% of players from this. I'll be generous and say 5%. I used to play on a desktop that would be about 10 years old. It played great. That computer died so I had to switch to my laptop which is about 7 or 8 years old now. I didn't think it would work but it plays ok with low graphics. If these ancient computers can play the game (the laptop plays Lotro also which is way more demanding) pretty much any computer anyone has is going to play it. I mean this is an old and basic laptop. Windows 7 is I see 13 years old now. That's nuts.
    Captain Jean-Luc Picard: "We think we've come so far. Torture of heretics, burning of witches, it's all ancient history. Then - before you can blink an eye - suddenly it threatens to start all over again."

    "With the first link, the chain is forged. The first speech censured, the first thought forbidden, the first freedom denied, chains us all irrevocably."

  • lnbladelnblade Member Posts: 408 Arc User
    This game was designed and released when win 7 was the dominant OS. It isn't unreasonable to expect that to stay supported for the lifetime of the product. Is it difficult for the devs? Yeah, but too bad.
    No, that actually is unreasonable. Microsoft itself no longer supports Windows 7. Any new security vulnerabilities or exploits that are found are not going to be patched out, and over time more and more will be found. Why should the devs continue to support a product that is a security liability?
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,766 Arc User
    I know I was very disappointed when I learned they wouldn't support my Commodore 64.
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  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    lnblade wrote: »
    This game was designed and released when win 7 was the dominant OS. It isn't unreasonable to expect that to stay supported for the lifetime of the product. Is it difficult for the devs? Yeah, but too bad.
    No, that actually is unreasonable. Microsoft itself no longer supports Windows 7. Any new security vulnerabilities or exploits that are found are not going to be patched out, and over time more and more will be found. Why should the devs continue to support a product that is a security liability?

    This isn't relevant. Any security issues are the users problem, and as Win 7 fades into obscurity the risk from those security flaws are increasingly irrelevant as it represents a group of largely outdated and unimportant machines from a hacker's perspective.
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 4,646 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    I know I was very disappointed when I learned they wouldn't support my Commodore 64.

    My Spectrum ZX81 +16k RAM agrees with you!! :lol:
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,774 Arc User
    This game was designed and released when win 7 was the dominant OS. It isn't unreasonable to expect that to stay supported for the lifetime of the product. Is it difficult for the devs? Yeah, but too bad.

    There comes a point when it IS unreasonable, and that's when the playerbase has moved on in sufficient numbers that maintaining compatibility with outdated operating systems costs more money than the revenue generated by the few players still using the outdated operating system.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 55,675 Community Moderator
    Sorry, but this does amount to an "I quit" thread. Doesn't matter if there is a claim of "being forced", the result is still the same, complete with what appears to be a rant about it.

    You're more than welcome to hang out with us here on the forums until you can upgrade, but you don't need to announce to the universe that you're upset about it. Ultimately it doesn't help anyone.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
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