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Ground melee combat needs one hell of a makeover
imelchori42
Member Posts: 80 Arc User
playing the new klingon recruit with the batleth of stovokor made it apparant to me how clunky melee combat is in this game.
one of the only few things i appreciate is that your character automatically charges at a selected enemy for a melee attack when he is in a certain range.
but apart from that here are some of the most important points that need improvement on imo.
(1.) the basic attack animation shouldnt lock you in place. imo a massive improvement would be the ability to auto attack while moving.
(2.) only allow basic attacks to even activate when a selected target is in range.
a lot of the time an enemy walks away or out of range in the time between activating the attack, and the animation starting. there is somewhat of a short dely. this causes your character to stand in place and strike into the air without hitting anything.
(3.) knockback is a terrible "reward" for melee combat.
certain kits and abilities like lunge, the basic cross strike and some ground traits can either have a chance to knock your enemy back, or cause your melee attacks to have a chance at knocking enemies back.
when youre fighting melee, the LAST thing you want to do is create distance between you and your enemy. stuns, slow, knocking enemies prone, pulling them in, everything that hampers their movement and nails them in place. those are all great procs to have when youre fighting melee. not the ability to push enemies out of your strike range.
(4.) more gap closing.
first of all the animation for lunge should be changed to not be so long winded. its purpose is to be a long range gap closer and stun. having your character pull off that leg kick and throwing himself on the ground may look cool, but is really anoying to use.
the pounce ground trait (i think it might be unique to ferasan) does exactly the same thing but far better. it instantly makes you jump on the enemy and deal damage without a long winded animation at the end, so you can immediately follow that up with melee strikes.
second, imo there should be a way to cut the cooldowns of those abilities shorter. maybe they should inherently reset every time youre killing an enemy with a melee weapon, to be able to dash from one enemy to the next.
having to cross the distance to each individual enemy is one of the two reasons why any form of ranged weapon in this game is far superior to melee weapons. (flying enemies being the second reason)
(5,) aoe sweep attacks. to deal with larger mob groups.
when i equipped the sweeping strikes module for the tac officers, i actually expected this thing to be a large area 360° attack with his melee weapon instead of a short ranged leg sweep.
either thats exactly what the ability should be, or it should exist in some other form imo.
i think thats all for now.
one of the only few things i appreciate is that your character automatically charges at a selected enemy for a melee attack when he is in a certain range.
but apart from that here are some of the most important points that need improvement on imo.
(1.) the basic attack animation shouldnt lock you in place. imo a massive improvement would be the ability to auto attack while moving.
(2.) only allow basic attacks to even activate when a selected target is in range.
a lot of the time an enemy walks away or out of range in the time between activating the attack, and the animation starting. there is somewhat of a short dely. this causes your character to stand in place and strike into the air without hitting anything.
(3.) knockback is a terrible "reward" for melee combat.
certain kits and abilities like lunge, the basic cross strike and some ground traits can either have a chance to knock your enemy back, or cause your melee attacks to have a chance at knocking enemies back.
when youre fighting melee, the LAST thing you want to do is create distance between you and your enemy. stuns, slow, knocking enemies prone, pulling them in, everything that hampers their movement and nails them in place. those are all great procs to have when youre fighting melee. not the ability to push enemies out of your strike range.
(4.) more gap closing.
first of all the animation for lunge should be changed to not be so long winded. its purpose is to be a long range gap closer and stun. having your character pull off that leg kick and throwing himself on the ground may look cool, but is really anoying to use.
the pounce ground trait (i think it might be unique to ferasan) does exactly the same thing but far better. it instantly makes you jump on the enemy and deal damage without a long winded animation at the end, so you can immediately follow that up with melee strikes.
second, imo there should be a way to cut the cooldowns of those abilities shorter. maybe they should inherently reset every time youre killing an enemy with a melee weapon, to be able to dash from one enemy to the next.
having to cross the distance to each individual enemy is one of the two reasons why any form of ranged weapon in this game is far superior to melee weapons. (flying enemies being the second reason)
(5,) aoe sweep attacks. to deal with larger mob groups.
when i equipped the sweeping strikes module for the tac officers, i actually expected this thing to be a large area 360° attack with his melee weapon instead of a short ranged leg sweep.
either thats exactly what the ability should be, or it should exist in some other form imo.
i think thats all for now.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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This discussion has been closed.
Comments
i just realized one of the better ways to do "knockback" for melee combat is to make them shoves instead, where your character is moving with the enemy while hes pushing them.
that could be useful to drive enemies into better positions or corners without distancing yourself from them.
though i still wouldnt make that a random proc on basic attacks as that could get quite anoying. having that on special abilities or alternative attack modes makes more sense, because you need to be able to control that kind of stuff.
> i just realized one of the better ways to do "knockback" for melee combat is to make them shoves instead, where your character is moving with the enemy while hes pushing them.
>
> that could be useful to drive enemies into better positions or corners without distancing yourself from them.
>
> though i still wouldnt make that a random proc on basic attacks as that could get quite anoying. having that on special abilities or alternative attack modes makes more sense, because you need to be able to control that kind of stuff.
I learned a lot more techniques in this thread, thank you very much.
ALL of this. I completely agree.. I have mentioned some of this before, just not as well however. Such as only attacking when you are in range, and being able to move and straff while attacking. Basically it needs to operate like a ranged energy weapon. Instead we get anchored down making melee useless.
There does seem to be some animation delay. Best I can tell is there might be some network lag or other (the Anniversary event is known for slowing things down a bit at times). Perhaps there might be other melee weapons found when ranking up that are a bit quicker?
It's possible to auto-close to and then attack anything in range. If no target press tab. What's your away team up to during a mission? If you hold threat you'll always have a target.
Bat'leths can be quirky possibly due to the large variety of moves available. See above.
Check the range on the lunge knockback. It's not far and not out of range for an auto-close. Seems to be more of an interrupt.
Try buffing up with Ambush or Battle Strategies prior to using Lunge or any other attack if playing a tactical recruit.
It should be possible to dash from one enemy to the next. Bat'leths are more complex in the variety of attacks possible so they handle differently than other melee weapons. There might be some other melee weapons available when ranking up that handle more to your liking.
There are people who tank elite Borg ground TFO's with a blade. I've met several of them. That must take some practice.
Pretty sure a Bat'leth isn't necessarily single target. On my recruit, a tactical officer, here's what I'm using...
Photon Grenade - great AOE that can grab a target and often kill several outright.
Lunge - nice range closer. If used while buffed or on an exposed target they usually expire. Can be used to climb walls up to targets which can be funny.
Motion Accelerator - Berserker mode and buffs melee damage .
Battle Strategies - damage buff. Craftable.
Ambush - damage buff
Possible Kit Modules for a tactical recruit - Ambush, Battle Strategies, Motion Accelerator, Photon Grenade, Lunge.
Little finger - TAB for targeting
Ring - 1, Middle 2, Index 3
Thumb - on Space Bar to jump over things
~ Key - bound to a buff or grenade or whatever you like.
Mouse side button 1 - Lunge, Mouse Side button 2 - Hypo
Some Bat'leth moves...
I've been saying this for years, especially the gap-closing. The mechanics exist since the Voth fangs allow the player to close the gap much better than a Bat'leth for example. That alone would be a huge improvement.
Making it more dynamic by being able to interrupt attacks and moving while attacking would be good improvements too - although probably also harder to implement.
Lastly, the best change has been left out imo:
Reducing the effectiveness of other shield-ignoring stuff. Melee used to be one of the few ways of quickly dealing shield-ignoring damage. That compensated for the fact you have to close a gap in the first place: it may take the melee-player more time before they can attack, but their attacks can damage a different part of the enemy (their HP, instead of only their shields).
Right now you still have to close the gap and attack later than other players - but those other players can just as easily deal shield-ignoring damage. It's very unfair to those who enjoy melee builds.
For a Tac I would also use Biotech Siphon. It allows the player to heal based on damage they're dealing with melee attacks.