Both Shepard and the Sole Survivor are indeed prefab characters. You can modify physical appearance pretty far, but in both cases your character is either a female human or a male human, hence the ability to have one voice for each gender. (And I find that in both cases, the female VA is easier to listen to - especially when the Survivor is opening their spouse's cryochamber in the beginning. The male VA just gets so ridiculously overwrought. "Come on, come on! Oh, GOD!!!")
In STO, on the other tentacle, the major limitation is that your character is humanoid. I have ships commanded by Humans (both genders), Ferengi (male), Caitians (both genders), Romulans (male), Klingons (both genders), one Reman/Romulan hybrid (female), one Orion/Klingon hybrid (male), and a Jem'Hadar (genderless, but coded male). Given the range of species, clearly one size does not fit all. And can you imagine the nightmare of coding necessary to record eight or nine different voices for each main character line, then have them come up in game appropriately? Not to mention the cost, even if everyone just got paid scale?
Honestly in my opinion, a prefab character is one whose identity and appearance are predetermined and not customizable. Like Lara Croft or Mario.
I don't really classify Shepard as full prefab because you can determine his/her appearance and background. The only thing you can't change is their last name. And FO4's player character... Yea your character was married, had a child, and was Pre-war, but pretty much everything else is fair game.
I think what we're actually debating here isn't as black and white as its being made out to be. There really is no absolute definitive with characters like Shepard and the Survivor. If we define a "prefab" as having things already established before we customize... then I guess our STO characters are also prefab as well as any Fed characters are pre-established as Starfleet Cadets/Officers, KDF are preestablished as members of the KDF, Republic were civilian before Virinat went down, and Jem'Hadar are obviously loyal to the Dominion.
Certain games are easier to have VO work for a customizable character than others. Mass Effect, Fallout, and even Saints Row have it easy as the only real vocal difference for the character is if they're male or female and technically have a personality (that we can influence). STO, on the other hand... too many variables such as species and gender. And that's not counting the "Alien" option.
If you can't change the narrative or customize them... then I'd say there's a case for prefab since that would be you taking on the role of an established character like Lara Croft during one of her adventures. But in something like Mass Effect, where decisions matter as well as having customization, or Fallout, where its open world AND you have customization... I don't see a case for calling the character prefab whatsoever. Sure you have a FOUNDATION to build on, but you're still able to develop the character as you see fit.
Both Shepard and the Sole Survivor are indeed prefab characters. You can modify physical appearance pretty far, but in both cases your character is either a female human or a male human, hence the ability to have one voice for each gender. (And I find that in both cases, the female VA is easier to listen to - especially when the Survivor is opening their spouse's cryochamber in the beginning. The male VA just gets so ridiculously overwrought. "Come on, come on! Oh, GOD!!!")
In STO, on the other tentacle, the major limitation is that your character is humanoid. I have ships commanded by Humans (both genders), Ferengi (male), Caitians (both genders), Romulans (male), Klingons (both genders), one Reman/Romulan hybrid (female), one Orion/Klingon hybrid (male), and a Jem'Hadar (genderless, but coded male). Given the range of species, clearly one size does not fit all. And can you imagine the nightmare of coding necessary to record eight or nine different voices for each main character line, then have them come up in game appropriately? Not to mention the cost, even if everyone just got paid scale?
This here is what Cryptic Dev's have pointed out in the past. The size of the audio files alone are a huge part of the issue. Having say 3 different voices for each sex covering every possible interaction would massively over-inflate the game files, and that's presuming they're using WAV files that are also over-inflated. Seriously, just record voice files in WMA 64bit and save a ton of space!
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
In STO, on the other tentacle, the major limitation is that your character is humanoid. I have ships commanded by Humans (both genders), Ferengi (male), Caitians (both genders), Romulans (male), Klingons (both genders), one Reman/Romulan hybrid (female), one Orion/Klingon hybrid (male), and a Jem'Hadar (genderless, but coded male). Given the range of species, clearly one size does not fit all. And can you imagine the nightmare of coding necessary to record eight or nine different voices for each main character line, then have them come up in game appropriately? Not to mention the cost, even if everyone just got paid scale?
This is my point. Let's say they brought in.... Michelle Trachtenberg to do a female captain voice. Should every female captain, regardless of species, sound like Michelle Trachtenberg?
From what I can remember that's how SWTOR handled it, and it worked fine imo. It's been awhile since I played, but I'm pretty sure every female Jedi Knight sounded the same whether they were a human, a twilek, a cathar, etc. Each of the eight main classes had a male and a female voice, for a total of 16 options that were determined solely by class and gender.
Both Shepard and the Sole Survivor are indeed prefab characters. You can modify physical appearance pretty far, but in both cases your character is either a female human or a male human, hence the ability to have one voice for each gender. (And I find that in both cases, the female VA is easier to listen to - especially when the Survivor is opening their spouse's cryochamber in the beginning. The male VA just gets so ridiculously overwrought. "Come on, come on! Oh, GOD!!!")
In STO, on the other tentacle, the major limitation is that your character is humanoid. I have ships commanded by Humans (both genders), Ferengi (male), Caitians (both genders), Romulans (male), Klingons (both genders), one Reman/Romulan hybrid (female), one Orion/Klingon hybrid (male), and a Jem'Hadar (genderless, but coded male). Given the range of species, clearly one size does not fit all. And can you imagine the nightmare of coding necessary to record eight or nine different voices for each main character line, then have them come up in game appropriately? Not to mention the cost, even if everyone just got paid scale?
This here is what Cryptic Dev's have pointed out in the past. The size of the audio files alone are a huge part of the issue. Having say 3 different voices for each sex covering every possible interaction would massively over-inflate the game files, and that's presuming they're using WAV files that are also over-inflated. Seriously, just record voice files in WMA 64bit and save a ton of space!
I don't know which would be a worse system hog, a huge number of prefab audio files that would make loading characters and missions take even longer than it does now, or the AI text reader that would suck up processing power.
If they did go with voiced captains (which I would like if it were practical btw) they could get away with fewer voices by having different basic voice textures and changing the pitch with something like autotune, but that would still be very clunky to bolt onto the engine and still take up a lot of space.
Plus it would probably take years to convert the backlog of old missions to voiced.
In STO, on the other tentacle, the major limitation is that your character is humanoid. I have ships commanded by Humans (both genders), Ferengi (male), Caitians (both genders), Romulans (male), Klingons (both genders), one Reman/Romulan hybrid (female), one Orion/Klingon hybrid (male), and a Jem'Hadar (genderless, but coded male). Given the range of species, clearly one size does not fit all. And can you imagine the nightmare of coding necessary to record eight or nine different voices for each main character line, then have them come up in game appropriately? Not to mention the cost, even if everyone just got paid scale?
This is my point. Let's say they brought in.... Michelle Trachtenberg to do a female captain voice. Should every female captain, regardless of species, sound like Michelle Trachtenberg?
From what I can remember that's how SWTOR handled it, and it worked fine imo. It's been awhile since I played, but I'm pretty sure every female Jedi Knight sounded the same whether they were a human, a twilek, a cathar, etc. Each of the eight main classes had a male and a female voice, for a total of 16 options that were determined solely by class and gender.
True, it did work for them. I remember that one of the female voices for Sith (Sorceress maybe? Its been a while...) was popular enough that people made more of them than they would have with a different voice
In STO, on the other tentacle, the major limitation is that your character is humanoid. I have ships commanded by Humans (both genders), Ferengi (male), Caitians (both genders), Romulans (male), Klingons (both genders), one Reman/Romulan hybrid (female), one Orion/Klingon hybrid (male), and a Jem'Hadar (genderless, but coded male). Given the range of species, clearly one size does not fit all. And can you imagine the nightmare of coding necessary to record eight or nine different voices for each main character line, then have them come up in game appropriately? Not to mention the cost, even if everyone just got paid scale?
This is my point. Let's say they brought in.... Michelle Trachtenberg to do a female captain voice. Should every female captain, regardless of species, sound like Michelle Trachtenberg?
From what I can remember that's how SWTOR handled it, and it worked fine imo. It's been awhile since I played, but I'm pretty sure every female Jedi Knight sounded the same whether they were a human, a twilek, a cathar, etc. Each of the eight main classes had a male and a female voice, for a total of 16 options that were determined solely by class and gender.
Yeah that was how it was done for example each female Soldier was Jennifer Hale using her "Commander Shepard" voice.
That said even during the time of SWTOR the Old Republic (or Galactic Republic as it's called in game) was ancient if Obi-wan is to be believed the Old Republic was somewhere between 20-30 thousand years old when it fell, and SWTOR was set around 3800 BBY IIRC (that's before the battle of Yavin) so that's more then enough time to there form a "republic culture" so to speak especially among Republic wide organizations so everyone sound the same regardless of species isn't as odd there. Also the Sith aren't really big on nonconformity either.
By contrast UFP was formed in 2160 so in 2410 it's only 250 years old so there's not as much time to there be a unified (sub-)culture that would make people (even people within the same organization ) to talk and act similarly even by sheer social inertia.
I'm genuinely surprised that CBS hasn't bought Cryptic, either.
That way, they get ALL the money, instead of Some of the money.
More so, with all the IP's CBS owns or has direct control over, it would make sense to have your own dedicated game company.
That assumes that PWE is willing to sell Cryptic for a reasonable sum, after all game companies aren't like goods in the store you can just go "I want that, that and that". The price for any semi- Successful company of Cryptic's size would be in the millions of dollars at the very least and that's assuming PWE is willing to sell here.
CBS doesn't get any money from STO besides the fee Cryptic pays for the license.
Well, considering all of the new content Cryptic gets to pull from new shows and such, i wouldn't think that was a small fee. Plus, like i said, if they actually OWNED Cryptic, they would get 100% of the money they're currently not getting instead of just a small fee. CBS seems more than willing to toss out a LOT of money for Star Trek, right now.
That assumes that PWE is willing to sell Cryptic for a reasonable sum, after all game companies aren't like goods in the store you can just go "I want that, that and that". The price for any semi- Successful company of Cryptic's size would be in the millions of dollars at the very least and that's assuming PWE is willing to sell here.
Very true.
With how big Star Trek is getting currently, all the new shows and possible films and controversy adding free advertising, i can only imagine how much more PWE would try to add to that price tag, either.
Not only is Star Trek seen as a "niche" interest (which seems odd, as it's sufficiently widespread that even "Darmok and Jalad" memes don't appear to need explaining in social media), but STO in particular is hampered by both poor advertising and a launch hobbled by its restrictions. Cryptic inherited the license from another studio, which had been "working" on the game for years and had gotten as far as concept art for a few ships; they had a very short deadline to produce a working game, with both Federation and Klingon factions. The fact that they succeeded at all was remarkable. Sadly, the product at launch was, well, kind of lame, with the story petering out for Feds between levels 18 and 20 (picking up again later, but leveling was kind of an issue) and the Klinks not even having a story until level 20. It used to be necessary for Klink players to level from 1 to 20 without any missions at all! (Lots of Ker'rat, back in the day.)
Now, of course, we have two factions, two demifactions, six tutorial experiences, and loads and loads of gameplay, but a sizeable fraction of the gaming community still thinks of the way STO started. We could use a good advertising push - Cryptic devs do their best, and some of the gaming press is coming around, but there's only so much one can do without actual professionals producing ads. (Remember when it was hardly possible to watch certain TV shows without seeing ads for WoW, back during Vanilla and the next two expansions? And print ads at least through Wrath of the Lich King? That game didn't become the giant it is through word of mouth...)
It would, of course, also be fantastic if ViacomCBS were to fund this game as well, but I'm not sure that's within the realm of probability.
After 11 years - I kind of doubt STO's original launch state is readily remembered/recalled by the current group of MMO gamers it's aiming at. It IS hampered still by a poor/nearly non-existent Marketing strategy; and the fact Marketing doesn't even have someone bother to check/proofread advertising copy and hilariously wrong dates and info still often appear and such mistakes are usually not corrected for days AFTER Cryptic is made aware of them is not doing the promotion of this game any favors.
Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012 PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
The same is true of most licensed products from most companies. You could ask why didn't Disney/Marvel have more of a hand in making sure the Avengers game didn't flop. That just isn't their place since they aren't making the game. And since they aren't developing/publishing the game, they also aren't the ones putting any money into it in the first place. STO's budget isn't influenced by CBS/Paramount to begin with.
Sorry to comment on a month old post. But there is probably a bit more going on between Marvel and Square Enix regarding Avengers that shows up at a casual glance. In looking at some of the choices and directions of that game it really helps to know that Marvel Entertainments Senior VP in charge of nobody really knows, holds a creator credit on, and thus gets royalties outside of her normal Executive Salary and bonuses, for the character Ms. Marvel Khamala Khan. Does that help snap things into focus for anyone? I mean that explains the baseline story issues. The gameplay problems are all on Squeenix. That's the joy of IP licensing. All of the fun layers.
Comments
In STO, on the other tentacle, the major limitation is that your character is humanoid. I have ships commanded by Humans (both genders), Ferengi (male), Caitians (both genders), Romulans (male), Klingons (both genders), one Reman/Romulan hybrid (female), one Orion/Klingon hybrid (male), and a Jem'Hadar (genderless, but coded male). Given the range of species, clearly one size does not fit all. And can you imagine the nightmare of coding necessary to record eight or nine different voices for each main character line, then have them come up in game appropriately? Not to mention the cost, even if everyone just got paid scale?
I don't really classify Shepard as full prefab because you can determine his/her appearance and background. The only thing you can't change is their last name. And FO4's player character... Yea your character was married, had a child, and was Pre-war, but pretty much everything else is fair game.
I think what we're actually debating here isn't as black and white as its being made out to be. There really is no absolute definitive with characters like Shepard and the Survivor. If we define a "prefab" as having things already established before we customize... then I guess our STO characters are also prefab as well as any Fed characters are pre-established as Starfleet Cadets/Officers, KDF are preestablished as members of the KDF, Republic were civilian before Virinat went down, and Jem'Hadar are obviously loyal to the Dominion.
Certain games are easier to have VO work for a customizable character than others. Mass Effect, Fallout, and even Saints Row have it easy as the only real vocal difference for the character is if they're male or female and technically have a personality (that we can influence). STO, on the other hand... too many variables such as species and gender. And that's not counting the "Alien" option.
If you can't change the narrative or customize them... then I'd say there's a case for prefab since that would be you taking on the role of an established character like Lara Croft during one of her adventures. But in something like Mass Effect, where decisions matter as well as having customization, or Fallout, where its open world AND you have customization... I don't see a case for calling the character prefab whatsoever. Sure you have a FOUNDATION to build on, but you're still able to develop the character as you see fit.
This here is what Cryptic Dev's have pointed out in the past. The size of the audio files alone are a huge part of the issue. Having say 3 different voices for each sex covering every possible interaction would massively over-inflate the game files, and that's presuming they're using WAV files that are also over-inflated. Seriously, just record voice files in WMA 64bit and save a ton of space!
From what I can remember that's how SWTOR handled it, and it worked fine imo. It's been awhile since I played, but I'm pretty sure every female Jedi Knight sounded the same whether they were a human, a twilek, a cathar, etc. Each of the eight main classes had a male and a female voice, for a total of 16 options that were determined solely by class and gender.
I don't know which would be a worse system hog, a huge number of prefab audio files that would make loading characters and missions take even longer than it does now, or the AI text reader that would suck up processing power.
If they did go with voiced captains (which I would like if it were practical btw) they could get away with fewer voices by having different basic voice textures and changing the pitch with something like autotune, but that would still be very clunky to bolt onto the engine and still take up a lot of space.
Plus it would probably take years to convert the backlog of old missions to voiced.
True, it did work for them. I remember that one of the female voices for Sith (Sorceress maybe? Its been a while...) was popular enough that people made more of them than they would have with a different voice
Yeah that was how it was done for example each female Soldier was Jennifer Hale using her "Commander Shepard" voice.
That said even during the time of SWTOR the Old Republic (or Galactic Republic as it's called in game) was ancient if Obi-wan is to be believed the Old Republic was somewhere between 20-30 thousand years old when it fell, and SWTOR was set around 3800 BBY IIRC (that's before the battle of Yavin) so that's more then enough time to there form a "republic culture" so to speak especially among Republic wide organizations so everyone sound the same regardless of species isn't as odd there. Also the Sith aren't really big on nonconformity either.
By contrast UFP was formed in 2160 so in 2410 it's only 250 years old so there's not as much time to there be a unified (sub-)culture that would make people (even people within the same organization ) to talk and act similarly even by sheer social inertia.
That way, they get ALL the money, instead of Some of the money.
More so, with all the IP's CBS owns or has direct control over, it would make sense to have your own dedicated game company.
That assumes that PWE is willing to sell Cryptic for a reasonable sum, after all game companies aren't like goods in the store you can just go "I want that, that and that". The price for any semi- Successful company of Cryptic's size would be in the millions of dollars at the very least and that's assuming PWE is willing to sell here.
Well, considering all of the new content Cryptic gets to pull from new shows and such, i wouldn't think that was a small fee. Plus, like i said, if they actually OWNED Cryptic, they would get 100% of the money they're currently not getting instead of just a small fee. CBS seems more than willing to toss out a LOT of money for Star Trek, right now.
Very true.
With how big Star Trek is getting currently, all the new shows and possible films and controversy adding free advertising, i can only imagine how much more PWE would try to add to that price tag, either.
After 11 years - I kind of doubt STO's original launch state is readily remembered/recalled by the current group of MMO gamers it's aiming at. It IS hampered still by a poor/nearly non-existent Marketing strategy; and the fact Marketing doesn't even have someone bother to check/proofread advertising copy and hilariously wrong dates and info still often appear and such mistakes are usually not corrected for days AFTER Cryptic is made aware of them is not doing the promotion of this game any favors.
PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."