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Something been bugging me.

Remember that mission Butterfly, at the end the timeline got rebooted, were all the plot threads resolved, like what other changes happened besides tuterians being wiped from existence and Noye's change in facial hair there is bound to ripple effects that we haven't even grasped.
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  • dixon#4204 dixon Member Posts: 14 Arc User
    Yep. My character whole-heartedly objected to the mission all the way through it, and I said told you so afterwards.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,961 Arc User
    dixon#4204 wrote: »
    Yep. My character whole-heartedly objected to the mission all the way through it, and I said told you so afterwards.

    Too bad our opinions didn't matter.

    Only the Romulans were affected so they were to have the final say on the matter.


    Or at least, that's what we were told and had to accept. 'Reality' is very different of course.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    I know it was just to have Noye go mad with a vengeance, but wasn't the whole point that they made a change to the timeline and if it didn't go right, undo it, so nothing would be any different? Also, surely the wife would have known her husband enough to know how he'd react...she shouldn't have left all that to drive him mad.

    If anyone, I blame her. She miscalculated and then sent him off on a tangent.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,884 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    That is the flaw with the Anorax project in VOY, it changes things in a way that the people doing it cannot change it back, only make other interventions to approximate what happened before the first shot. And making patch after patch trying to get everything back to the way it was just causes more problems.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    That is the flaw with the Anorax project in VOY, it changes things in a way that the people doing it cannot change it back, only make other interventions to approximate what happened before the first shot. And making patch after patch trying to get everything back to the way it was just causes more problems.

    Couldn't we use the Alliance resources to kitbash an Anorax from scratch to wipe out Noye's version of the ship from existence, wouldn't that reset everything.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,884 Arc User
    That is the flaw with the Anorax project in VOY, it changes things in a way that the people doing it cannot change it back, only make other interventions to approximate what happened before the first shot. And making patch after patch trying to get everything back to the way it was just causes more problems.

    Couldn't we use the Alliance resources to kitbash an Anorax from scratch to wipe out Noye's version of the ship from existence, wouldn't that reset everything.

    I don't remember exactly why anymore (I have not seen those particular episodes since they first aired, and it was a convoluted reason to begin with iirc) but they could not just destroy the Anorax, it was only possible to fix things by having it erase itself. I don't have time at the moment to go and try to refresh the memory by reading the Memory Alpha pages on it.
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,292 Arc User
    because timey Wimey stuffs
    Spock.jpg

  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,961 Arc User
    That is the flaw with the Anorax project in VOY, it changes things in a way that the people doing it cannot change it back, only make other interventions to approximate what happened before the first shot. And making patch after patch trying to get everything back to the way it was just causes more problems.

    Couldn't we use the Alliance resources to kitbash an Anorax from scratch to wipe out Noye's version of the ship from existence, wouldn't that reset everything.

    I don't remember exactly why anymore (I have not seen those particular episodes since they first aired, and it was a convoluted reason to begin with iirc) but they could not just destroy the Anorax, it was only possible to fix things by having it erase itself. I don't have time at the moment to go and try to refresh the memory by reading the Memory Alpha pages on it.

    Janeway rammed the Annorax so that its weapon would destabilise and the ship itself be removed from the timeline.
    Because the ship and weapon thus never existed, everything it had erased had never been erased and so everything was restored.

    It's why some people on here at the time also suggested that Noye is actually sitting on the very solution he's trying to find. By just erasing his own ship, he could solve everything.

    Building another Annorax - or even just the same weapon it uses - should in theory work just as well though. Although that one would probably disappear as well because without the original, there would have been no reason to build another one...

    The Alliance needs to make sure that it does all this before the (original) Annorax is destroyed by more conventional means though. Because this only remains an option as long as there actually is an Annorax to use the/its weapon on. And Noye may be good at making friends, he's just as competent when it comes to making enemies in his blind quest for vengeance.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,597 Arc User
    If you build another Annorax, you introduce paradox. Either it obliterates the original, ceases to exist because there was no reason to build it, and the original exists again because there was nothing there to obliterate it, or your second Annorax wipes the first one from existence, and is now there still mucking up the timeline by simply existing.

    Janeway's version avoided paradox, because in that version the notes were made but the weapon was never built. It wasn't until 2410 that the Alliance found a world hidden slightly out of phase with time, and aided the people in building their temporal weapon...
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,414 Arc User
    > @jonsills said:
    > If you build another Annorax, you introduce paradox. Either it obliterates the original, ceases to exist because there was no reason to build it, and the original exists again because there was nothing there to obliterate it, or your second Annorax wipes the first one from existence, and is now there still mucking up the timeline by simply existing.
    >
    > Janeway's version avoided paradox, because in that version the notes were made but the weapon was never built. It wasn't until 2410 that the Alliance found a world hidden slightly out of phase with time, and aided the people in building their temporal weapon...

    There's also the matter that Annorax was still planning to build the timeship in the "restored" timeline but either didn't or couldn't complete it.
  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,597 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »
    There's also the matter that Annorax was still planning to build the timeship in the "restored" timeline but either didn't or couldn't complete it.
    As I recall, he was called away from his designs at the end of the episode. Presumably, someone offscreen then declined to fund his pet project, leaving it as nothing more than some notes on a theoretical device to be found years later during the Iconian conflict.
    Lorna-Wing-sig.png
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,847 Arc User
    Yes, in that timeline, he made the choice to actually spend time with his wife after a bit of coercing on her part...as for why he didn't go back to the ship afterwards, maybe something else changed with the reset and the Krenim made peace with the Rilnar before the ship could be completed.​​
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  • xarynn2058xarynn2058 Member Posts: 152 Arc User
    The thing with the effects from Butterfly is that the universe at large doesn't know it ever happened. From what I recall that includes our characters because the temporal protection was only temporary. All that's left is a shielded datacore which has probably been take to be investigated by "top men".
    To all intents and purposes the mission was a failure because it didn't do anything significant to the Iconians (though it did a number on the Borg).
    Essentially, as far as the perceived timeline is concerned, the Annorax was only used during the war to open a portal to past Iconia.
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