test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Fleet T6 Ar'kif good "cheap" build

jinno1993#9127 jinno1993 Member Posts: 87 Arc User
Hi guys,

I'm back to the game after years not playing and so I wonder how can I make my fleet Ar'kif good for elite missions ?
can you give some advice ?

consider i don't have any CP/Lobi ship.
I have almost every reputation at T5.

Don't have much money (about 65M credits) and, considering no one sells CP points anymore (and they're price is maximum anyway) I'd prefer stickin on free stuff.

I already have Epic Mk-XIV Antiproton DHCs (x4), Kinetic Cutting Beam and Delphic Antiproton Turrets (x2), some good consoles (Fleet Mk XIV antiproton dmg + crit chance) TAC x5, Romulan Plasma SCI x4, Borg Console + RCS Accelerator (the one that give EPS boost) in ENG.
«1

Comments

  • qultuqqultuq Member Posts: 555 Arc User
    I haven’t run an antiproton build since Delta Rising. But I think the best Antiproton consoles are in the Phenix store now.

    Voth phase decoy:

    https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Console_-_Universal_-_Voth_Phase_Decoy

    The Crystaline Absorption Matrix:

    https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Console_-_Universal_-_Crystalline_Absorption_Matrix

    The Crystaline Antiproton Torpedo:

    https://sto.fandom.com/wiki/Crystalline_Energy_Torpedo_Launcher

    That being said I think there may be cheap EPS and torpedo builds that outpace energy builds these days. But I am running pretty classic energy builds too—so I don’t know how to build those yet.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    I'd focus on bridge officer ability cool downs + skill tree + updating some of your consoles and equipment sets to get going again. Sticking with cannons front and turrets rear is a good choice for a ship that has a base turn of 16. The embassy plasma consoles have been rendered obsolete so there's four slots worth of room that are free now. Your Borg assimilated module is still a good choice.

    For boff abilities and cool downs you could double up most abilities or use photonic officer 2 plus possibly some readiness in your skill tree or a single copy of auxiliary to battery 1 along with photonic officer 2. Photonic officer has been improved recently making it a go to these days for boff ability cool downs.

    The A2B1 + PO2 combination is working well for me but needs 3 VR technician duty officers that you can get for free from doffing at the B'tran Cluster.

    Tac - TT1, APB1, CRF2, CSV3
    Tac - Best Served Cold 1, Kemocite 2

    Eng - ET 1
    Universal - EPtE 1, A2B 1, EPtW3

    Sci - ST 1, HE 2, PO2

    Science team could be replaced with a pilot boff ability of your choice. There's also a variety of EPG related skills that work good as a Lt. science boff skill (more on that below). Adding an emergency conn hologram to your active duty officers (from Phoenix box) to enable EPtE to reset the cooldown of evasive maneuvers for increased mobility is very handy.

    Starship traits that would go well with this setup would be Emergency Weapon Cycle and Withering Barrage.

    There's a lot more good build advice mentioned here that should work great in updating your build - Cannon Ships in the Current Century

    I use their skill tree recommendation but often prefer 2 points into impulse expertise (move 1 point from hull capacity) and sometimes take both captain power nodes as compared to the second point into EPG. It really a matter of taste and what you're trying to accomplish.

    Two point of EPG can be a great way to "weaponize" a variety of LtC science skills available that rely upon it. One point into impulse expertise can be good for a faster turning ship. My endeavor points are only at 125.

    Think you'll find some of the meta gear recommendations (i.e. deflector, engine, core, and shield) recommendations work very well as compared to some of the gear available back in the day.
  • jinno1993#9127 jinno1993 Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    Ahh cool, I didn't knew A2B Builds were still a thing. I thought they were outdated now. Glad to see I was wrong :heart:
    protoneous wrote: »
    I'd focus on bridge officer ability cool downs + skill tree + updating some of your consoles Tac - TT1, APB1, CRF2, CSV3


    Just one question ... you put CRF and CSV that are 2 cannons abilities. Why that ?
    Wouldn't it be better to have something else since I can't use them together and there's not that much difference between the two ?

    BTW believe it or not, but I do have Emergency Power Cycle ... before I left I converted dilithium to buy CP and get Mogai T6 ahah

    withering Barrage may be hard to get tho :(

    BTW ,,, I was checking the stuff on DPS League, but that seems to be ,,, crazy ? No set bonuses ? Are you sure ?
    As for the Skill Tree ... Tactical Readiness ? Really ? What use can it be ?

    I mean, Tac Skills all have 30 secs cooldown (which is halved with A2B build) ... and cooldown cannot go down 15s (that's why one usually goes for 2 copies of each skill), so why wasting points there ?

    Also why wasting a lot of points to get that ultimate skill which, not gonna lie, I don't really like: 1.30 cooldown for a +20% weapon cycle haste ... it's not that much I think :/ considering I'm wasting lots of skill points I could spend elsewhere.

    These are my doubts
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    Just wanted to address the "cheap" (affordable) part so as to not overwhelm with costly choices. Best advice from the linked help page in my post above is -
    Choose the stuff you have or you could afford
    In other words, use what you have and gradually improve your build piece by piece based upon what you can afford. Many affordable consoles that do a great job filling in come from just playing the storyline and also from reputation, and sometimes the Phoenix store.

    Based upon advice I've been given from a variety of very good players that seem to work for me a ship's performance isn't based upon how many Lobi consoles you have or dollars spent but via good piloting and a few other things -
    • Skill tree. The "all purpose / general purpose" skill tree I used to use was giving me very general purpose results. The 27 point tac ultimate tree is more than malleable enough to provide great results from energy only to full science and seems to allow for much more damage and bite in a build.
    • Bridge Officer ability cooldowns. A lot of my builds weren't paying enough attention to this and the result was markedly decreased performance. No matter what combination of traits, active duty officers, and bridge officer abilities are used this is a really important part of any build.
    • Keybinds. I was very stubborn in my outlook that clicking on boff abilities was serving me well. It only took a week or so after setting up a basic tactical rotation keybind that allowed the sequential activation of often used abilities for me to realize that this was taking up the majority of my attention span. The increase in efficiency brings much added pleasure as well as vastly increased performance. There was so much more time to take care of things instead of trying to click on the same 5-8 keys over and over again. Simple keybinds instructional video.
    Coolest thing about combining the above three items is that over time the benefits just don't add up but actually multiply.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    Ahh cool, I didn't knew A2B Builds were still a thing. I thought they were outdated now. Glad to see I was wrong :heart:
    protoneous wrote: »
    I'd focus on bridge officer ability cool downs + skill tree + updating some of your consoles Tac - TT1, APB1, CRF2, CSV3


    Just one question ... you put CRF and CSV that are 2 cannons abilities. Why that ?
    Wouldn't it be better to have something else since I can't use them together and there's not that much difference between the two ?

    BTW believe it or not, but I do have Emergency Power Cycle ... before I left I converted dilithium to buy CP and get Mogai T6 ahah

    withering Barrage may be hard to get tho :(

    BTW ,,, I was checking the stuff on DPS League, but that seems to be ,,, crazy ? No set bonuses ? Are you sure ?
    As for the Skill Tree ... Tactical Readiness ? Really ? What use can it be ?

    I mean, Tac Skills all have 30 secs cooldown (which is halved with A2B build) ... and cooldown cannot go down 15s (that's why one usually goes for 2 copies of each skill), so why wasting points there ?

    Also why wasting a lot of points to get that ultimate skill which, not gonna lie, I don't really like: 1.30 cooldown for a +20% weapon cycle haste ... it's not that much I think :/ considering I'm wasting lots of skill points I could spend elsewhere.

    These are my doubts

    Why do I use both CRF and CSV - there's nothing wrong with just using CSV as it's multi-target. I have ships that use CSV only. Why both? If I'm doing an advanced TFO that has opponents with feedback pulse (i.e. Terrans) CSV it'll have me reducing my fire to wait it out or risk blowing up. With CRF I can focus fire on the single targets that don't have FBP up. Can also use it to manage threat. Sure it could be used for something else like beam overload but simply put the combination is just what works best for me.

    No set bonuses - there's quite a few set bonuses mentioned there. I use them whenever I can and as many as I can. There may not be as many available for anti-proton. Am usually using phaser, disruptor, or polaron myself. One of the biggest set bonuses mentioned is the 2 piece Discovery shield and core.

    Tac ultimate doubts - it's an end-game skill tree that seems to maximize the amount of damage I can do as well as helping the rest of the team with all 3 coordination protocols (they stack for each player that has them) as well as unlocking all 3 frenzied reactions. I find hitting the magic red button with others on team focusing fire on a large target to be very powerful.

    Sure, it's entirely possible to get away with a few points less in tactical but to be entirely honest at this point I'd be hard pressed to find better options for those skill points. Looking at my stats in non-sector space I'd also be hard pressed to find an area in my spec that I'm short on and I certainly don't feel squishy in any way. My power levels are great.

    I use a similar 27 point tac ultimate skill tree for my science ships and mixed builds.

    I don't characterize any of the 27 point tac ultimate skill points as a waste given what I'm getting in return. It's meant to be nothing more than a suggestion and is currently what works best for me as somebody who focuses primarily on advanced or better gameplay.

    Also - if it matters, I'm not recommending the 27 point tac ult skill tree from the perspective of somebody that has a lot of fancy gear and expensive starships and traits to "make it work" because all I really have is a good selection of storyline and reputation gear as well as a few c-store ships. Nothing fancy at all :smile:
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    Ship's stats from an A2B disruptor cannon cruiser using the tactical template skill tree. Am feeling pretty well balanced :p

    V50Elke.jpg
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,561 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    The Romulan Plasma consoles got pretty heavily nerfed... I would strip those off and replace with AP universals.

    In addition to the two mentioned above, there is also the Polymorphic Probes available in the Exchange (it's a lockbox console). The last two anniversary ship consoles have also been AP universals, but you likely do not have those.

    There aren't really any good AP set bonuses. For my AP builds I have been using the Nukara reputation impulse + shield for the 2pc set bonus (+cat2 damage). (The Discovery one mentioned above is also useful, but in a more defensive way; similarly with the Sol Defense and a couple of others.)

    Also I would look into replacing your tac BOFFs with the blue-quality male Romulan from the Fleet Embassy (with "Superior Romulan Operative" trait) if you have not already done that; each of these gives +2 crit hit and +5 crit severity.

    Similarly, the Fleet Colony protomatter deflectors (+4 crit hit and +15 crit severity) are also useful.

    And yes, I also run A2B builds. (A2B is old-fashioned and there are other options now, but it still works exactly the same as it always has.) There's a fleet warp core that is particularly nice... the Elite Fleet Plasma-Intergrated with both [AMP] and [W->E] mods (second from bottom of list at Fleet Spire). AMP because it's a damage booster and W->E because that is the most useful mod of its type other than W->A, which will get sucked into the A2B cycle.

    I would also re-engineer the DHCs (so that all mods are CrtD, with the epic mod as CrtD/Dm), and upgrade to Mk XV. Similar with other weapons.

    Also, pay attention as you rank up the Discovery rep... sometimes those boxes spawn "Bellum" science or engineering consoles, which have +crit chance in addition to their regular bonuses. My TOS Recruit is running two Bellum EPS consoles ;)
  • jinno1993#9127 jinno1993 Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    westmetals wrote: »
    The Romulan Plasma consoles got pretty heavily nerfed... I would strip those off and replace with AP universals.

    In addition to the two mentioned above, there is also the Polymorphic Probes available in the Exchange (it's a lockbox console). The last two anniversary ship consoles have also been AP universals, but you likely do not have those.

    There aren't really any good AP set bonuses. For my AP builds I have been using the Nukara reputation impulse + shield for the 2pc set bonus (+cat2 damage). (The Discovery one mentioned above is also useful, but in a more defensive way; similarly with the Sol Defense and a couple of others.)

    Also I would look into replacing your tac BOFFs with the blue-quality male Romulan from the Fleet Embassy (with "Superior Romulan Operative" trait) if you have not already done that; each of these gives +2 crit hit and +5 crit severity.

    Similarly, the Fleet Colony protomatter deflectors (+4 crit hit and +15 crit severity) are also useful.

    And yes, I also run A2B builds. (A2B is old-fashioned and there are other options now, but it still works exactly the same as it always has.) There's a fleet warp core that is particularly nice... the Elite Fleet Plasma-Intergrated with both [AMP] and [W->E] mods (second from bottom of list at Fleet Spire). AMP because it's a damage booster and W->E because that is the most useful mod of its type other than W->A, which will get sucked into the A2B cycle.

    I would also re-engineer the DHCs (so that all mods are CrtD, with the epic mod as CrtD/Dm), and upgrade to Mk XV. Similar with other weapons.

    Also, pay attention as you rank up the Discovery rep... sometimes those boxes spawn "Bellum" science or engineering consoles, which have +crit chance in addition to their regular bonuses. My TOS Recruit is running two Bellum EPS consoles ;)

    Already have 5 sup. operatives.
    I use sustained protomatter (10% cost reduction on weapons, +5/10 power levels in SHI, ENG and AUX)
    I should have plasma-infused too in bank.

    As for set, I run 3pcs Iconian (Shield, Engines, Deflector).

    My DHCs are aldready [CrtD]x3 [CrtH/CrtD] [Pen]

    still I don't seem to deal enough damage in elite ...

    img.png

    I can switch the torpedo launcher with a fourth DHC (identical to the other 3).
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    These are my doubts

    I was also a skeptic about a variety of things until more recently. My skill tree looked very similar to yours 4-5 years ago on your last posted build.

    There's nothing wrong with the bridge officer setup there. Two copies of each tactical skill works great, with damage control engineers to take care of emergency power cooldown.

    The usual convention these days for selecting cannon skills and attack patterns is highest cannon skill (hits more targets) with a lower version of an attack pattern. That's a minor change.

    Some players might prefer Aux2Sif versus reverse shield polarity without a way to get RSP cooled down quicker than it's lengthy 2 minute cooldown. Aux2Sif offers a nice damage resist increase.

    Lot's of people like a gravity well as their LtC science boff ability myself included. It can be a lot of fun. The difference between 2017 and now is that photonic officer has been greatly improved with PO2 now being about good enough to use on it's own for cooldowns. With a single copy of A2B it's pretty well perfect.

    As far as skill trees and other things what else has changed since 2017 ?

    Emergency power to engines instead of EP to shields is really popular now due to the emergency conn hologram from a phoenix token. Mobility helps a lot. Competitive engines are popular for this reason as well. The type that procs off of heals seems to be more popular and predictable for a lot of players.

    The Embassy plasma consoles are no longer of any use at all so there's no longer much of a need to spec fully into drain to assist them. You can grab enough of this in your deflector usually. Just a little is fine. There's a tactical node below the skill tree that takes care of threat reduction as long as threatening stance is left off.

    EPS is still dps but not quite to the same extent. The amount of EPS in your spec using 2 (both) points combined with some weapons cost reduction elsewhere is usually fine. Often when choosing a singularity core there's a type with some weapons cost reduction (not EPS) built in that's a good choice. Your crafted engineering console with EPS is no longer a must slot.

    Using a gravity well to just to gather targets up (versus doing exotic damage as on a science ship) might not need the third point into control amplification, it's more of a science ship thing. Interestingly enough there's a 27 point tac ultimate variation with 2 points into control expertise should it be needed, but often a single point can suffice in combination with other sources. A gravity well can be fun but as a secondary effect isn't adding anything to the amount of damage that's being done. For this you'd need some EPG and it may be a role best left to science ships imho.

    For shield hardness 1-2 points is usually enough.

    I think your skill tree power points are perfect... 2 captain skill points along with 2 admiral (warp core potential and efficiency). Ditto for using all 3 long range targeting sensors points.

    The number of skill tree points put into resists is always going to be a personal preference. I'm not a tank so find a single point is sufficient. On the cruisers at least the rest is taken care of with the ship's mastery package (+25). It's one of those areas that could perhaps be characterized as possibly trying to increase a build's sturdiness versus increasing the amount of damage done... which works better?

    The way in which our skill trees were very similar (aside from being science heavy) back in the day is the amount of skill tree points allocated to the very first row. Two points to each of the lieutenant skills used to be very common. Now it's something perhaps seen in a support build. Taking a look at one Lt skill point versus 2 from left to right...

    Hull Restoration - there's a space trait for this that everybody gets called Techie that adds +20. That's almost the same amount as the second point which gives +35. Your current deflector adds +26.2. That's a lot when added up. Not sure if 2 points are needed here.

    Hull Capacity - this is one area that could merit a second point. Check out the space reputation trait Tyler's Duality. It gives additional CrtH for hull capacity and works very well. There's also an engineering node below the skill tree that gives +10.

    Shield Restoration - a single point can help with something like reverse shield polarity. Your current deflector adds +35 so you already have the equivalent of 2 full points here even if using 1 point in your skill tree. One point is usually more than sufficient.

    Shield Capacity - Intel primary Strategist secondary is a commonly used specialization combo these days. Strategist is giving me +10% maximum shield capacity. On a non-A2B build one of the best consoles around is a Temporal Disentanglement Suite science console. It gives another 20% max shield cap. The extra CrtH/D is superb.

    There's a genetic resequencer called Inspirational Leader available that at 3 stacks in combat will add +30 to most skills.

    There's storyline consoles that give lot's of the good stuff above that work well as standalone consoles.

    For me the one lieutenant skill point versus two came down to finding/recognizing other available sources and testing things out over time to see if it really did make much of a difference as compared to reallocating some of those points into tactical where they do more damage. The same applies to the extra science skills. Some of the savings outlined above is where the extra points into tactical come from without any negative opportunity cost.

    For me at least the extra damage versus extra tank seems to pay off. Even when leveling a character. Especially on an all cannon build.

    Some of the really nice things we have today that we didn't used to have would be a fleet colony intervention deflector with EPS and Drain expertise and the colocrit modifier. Combine that with a Discovery reputation shield and core for a 2 piece that gives yet more hull capacity, increased shield damage, and a huge increase in hull regeneration that makes ships feel considerably more tanky than they used to.

    Given the gear available today from both the storyline and reputation I think a skill tree like the tactical template is more viable than ever.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    still I don't seem to deal enough damage in elite ... I can switch the torpedo launcher with a fourth DHC (identical to the other 3).

    Adding a 4th DHC would really help. Perhaps replace the cutting beam with another turret and update your deflector-engine-core-shield space set when you can.

    Replace the embassy consoles which unfortunately no longer work.

    Aside from that there's nothing more I can suggest aside from adding damage.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    More damage
    • Skill Tree
    • Cooldowns
    • Keybinds

      ^ These 3 items already covered and can more than double damage.

    • Bridge Officer Abilities

      Drop GW1 - it's not doing any damage. Focus on the directed energy weapon damage of your cannons in advanced or better game play.

      Could replace with PO2 and fit in a Lt. science boff skill with an EPG related skill i.e. Delayed Overload Cascade or Very Cold in Space (see STO-League link above).

    • Gear/Consoles

      Anything antiproton related. Colony deflector + 2 piece Discovery Core and Shield or Colony deflector + anything for it's colocrit. Temporal Disentanglement Suite from storyline if not using A2B. Valdore console ? <-- think this is pretty cheap now 75K dilithium.

    • Space Traits
    • Space Reputation Traits

      ^ as listed in the STO-League link above. If even a couple of genetic resequencers are within budget they can be very helpful.

    • Starship Traits

      Add the Withering Barrage trait when you can to go with your emergency weapon cycle. An extra 4 seconds makes a big difference.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,561 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    westmetals wrote: »
    The Romulan Plasma consoles got pretty heavily nerfed... I would strip those off and replace with AP universals.

    In addition to the two mentioned above, there is also the Polymorphic Probes available in the Exchange (it's a lockbox console). The last two anniversary ship consoles have also been AP universals, but you likely do not have those.

    There aren't really any good AP set bonuses. For my AP builds I have been using the Nukara reputation impulse + shield for the 2pc set bonus (+cat2 damage). (The Discovery one mentioned above is also useful, but in a more defensive way; similarly with the Sol Defense and a couple of others.)

    Also I would look into replacing your tac BOFFs with the blue-quality male Romulan from the Fleet Embassy (with "Superior Romulan Operative" trait) if you have not already done that; each of these gives +2 crit hit and +5 crit severity.

    Similarly, the Fleet Colony protomatter deflectors (+4 crit hit and +15 crit severity) are also useful.

    And yes, I also run A2B builds. (A2B is old-fashioned and there are other options now, but it still works exactly the same as it always has.) There's a fleet warp core that is particularly nice... the Elite Fleet Plasma-Intergrated with both [AMP] and [W->E] mods (second from bottom of list at Fleet Spire). AMP because it's a damage booster and W->E because that is the most useful mod of its type other than W->A, which will get sucked into the A2B cycle.

    I would also re-engineer the DHCs (so that all mods are CrtD, with the epic mod as CrtD/Dm), and upgrade to Mk XV. Similar with other weapons.

    Also, pay attention as you rank up the Discovery rep... sometimes those boxes spawn "Bellum" science or engineering consoles, which have +crit chance in addition to their regular bonuses. My TOS Recruit is running two Bellum EPS consoles ;)

    Already have 5 sup. operatives.
    I use sustained protomatter (10% cost reduction on weapons, +5/10 power levels in SHI, ENG and AUX)
    I should have plasma-infused too in bank.

    As for set, I run 3pcs Iconian (Shield, Engines, Deflector).

    My DHCs are aldready [CrtD]x3 [CrtH/CrtD] [Pen]

    still I don't seem to deal enough damage in elite ...

    img.png

    I can switch the torpedo launcher with a fourth DHC (identical to the other 3).

    Was not aware you were playing as Romulan... so you've already gone above and beyond on officers. Very good.

    As for the deflector/impulse/shield... replacing your Iconian set with the Fleet Colony (intervention protomatter) deflector and a 2pc Nukara set as I mentioned should be a net upgrade. Particularly due to the additional crit stats from the deflector (which are worth about 2.5 officers).

    I would re-engineer the DHCs from [CrtD]x3 [CrtH/CrtD] [Pen] to [CrtD]x3 [CrtD/Dm] [Pen]... it's a fairly small change but would be a (small) net upgrade. This because Dmg is a better mod than CrtH, and also because there is a ratio difference between crit hit and crit severity that makes it FAR better to stack crit hit from non-weapon sources... as a result, CrtH is like 3rd out of 4 among generic weapons mods (better than Acc but worse than CrtD and Dmg).

    Oh, and IF you are going to keep the torpedo, rearrange so that it is in the far RIGHT slot. This will make it slightly more effective because it will fire after your DHCs instead of before, so has a higher chance of hitting an unshielded target (shields eat torpedo damage).

    Also, just a hint... it took me a while to figure this out too, but... that Universal console slot will accept ANY console, not just universals. You can use it for an extra tactical console, such as another of the crit hit+AP fleet consoles, or perhaps the Discovery rep console.
  • jinno1993#9127 jinno1993 Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    Ok, then:

    I rearranged the torpedo in the last slot, as you said and yes: it is a nice improvement.
    I'm not sure I want to keep it tho: I mean, it's cool, but I doesn't have that raw shearing power I expected ... I remember, LONG time ago with a Fed character I used to have a Elite Fleet Quantum Torpedo Mk XII and it did like 100k dmg criticals with High Yield 3 ...

    And it wasn't even buffed by consoles like this one.
    Ok, I'm using Scatter Volley now, but the best crit I've seen is 24k ... 1/4 damage !

    I mean, I have 5 antiproton consoles buffing it now !
    It should be more effective than this... if it's this bad, maybe a fourh DHC is better !



    as for Re-Engineering, I would do it for last. Also, it's not that big improvement as fas as I understood.



    As for Deflector and Set ... ok, I'm working on it.
    Same for 6th Antiproton Console.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    The dual heavy cannons and turrets are being supported by all the tactical consoles but also buffed by Cannon Scatter Volley and Attack Pattern Beta that are up all the time.

    It might be that an extra cannon up front firing and getting buffed almost all the time does more damage than a torpedo that only fires and gets a firing mode buff some of the time.

    The borg cutting beam isn't doing anything much and doesn't benefit from cannon firing mode skills. It's proc isn't something that's too useful these days.

    A lot of people discarded their Embassy plasma consoles after they were adjusted which would leave 3 console slots available for new additions. I'd keep the assimilated module for it's CrtH and add the Temporal disentanglement suite (from storyline) for even more CrtH and other good stuff.

    Changing the Gravity Well 1 to something else would free up a fourth science console.

    Loadouts can come in really handy. One thing they can be good for is keeping a "canon" loadout that provides for more thematic fun and then another loadout for doing more damage in advanced or better gameplay. It might be time to change up a few things and experiment versus focusing on how things used to work. Loadouts can help with quick comparisons.

    If you do go for an experimental upgrade on your ship the Discovery reputation console Lorca's Custom Fire Controls would be a decent choice.

    Think you'll be amazed after changing up your deflector and space set. More damage + more survivability is great.

    The numbers used in discussing skill tree point allocations above were based on a Mark 12 Sol defense set deflector per your previously posted build on the STOAcademy skill planner but wouldn't be much different for the Iconian deflector.

    One way to try a different skill tree and build is to transfer a copy of a character to the Tribble test server. Lot's of everything needed is available at Drozana station. It's now possible to hop into an advanced or better patrol with a set of guilded reputation gear (they supply the upgrades). If you need fleet gear on Tribble message me for an invite.

    The starships I'm using with cannons include the Morrigu, Arbiter, Temer Alliance Raider, Jem'Hadar Vanguard Warship, and more recently the Gagarin.

    For me most seem to do best with a fully buffed set of cannons front and turrets rear or in other words focusing on pure directed energy weapon damage combined with incorporating many of the principles linked or outlined above.

    Parsed damage from the characters I've focused on is at 120K (beam engineer) and 133K (cannon tac in a Temer Raider) in advanced game play. The Gagarin should be good for more. Both these numbers seem to be going up gradually with practice.

    From the perspective of a casual player the fact that I'm now only limited by my own piloting and that the same characters were doing about 20-30K before focusing on them really highlights how well some of the suggested principles work and how various small improvements can begin to not only add up but multiply.

    Trying different things is part of the fun.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,561 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    protoneous wrote: »
    The dual heavy cannons and turrets are being supported by all the tactical consoles but also buffed by Cannon Scatter Volley and Attack Pattern Beta that are up all the time.

    It might be that an extra cannon up front firing and getting buffed almost all the time does more damage than a torpedo that only fires and gets a firing mode buff some of the time.

    This is true... however it should be mentioned that in this case (the Crystalline torpedo) it also benefits from the AP energy tac consoles.

    Generally keeping a torpedo vs. not, is a net handicap, however most players (speaking of thematic) like to have one torpedo in the build. I will strongly recommend however, not using more than one, as torpedo launchers have a shared cooldown (like BOFF abilities but not like energy weapons) which further limits their usefulness. (Didn't bring this up earlier as you are already only using one.)

    And... yes re-engineering is a small change, particularly in this case as you are not adding CrtD. Go ahead and leave it for last, but I do feel that swapping that one mod (actually half of the epic combo mod) from CrtH to Dmg is a (small) net upgrade.


    To clarify on my earlier statement that "there aren't really any good AP set bonuses"... by that I meant set bonuses that specifically give an energy type damage bonus (like the tac consoles do).

    There ARE such for phaser, disruptor, and plasma (the Bajor Defense set) and polaron (the Jem'Hadar set)... as 2 pc bonuses that you could get via impulse/shield combined with a fleet deflector as mentioned above. (Both sets are episode rewards, too, and Jem'Hadar actually start with their set already).

    As mentioned, the Nukara reputation set gives +cat2 damage for all weapons, so I use that for my AP and tetryon builds (there is a tetryon set, but its damage bonus is the 3 pc bonus, so not as useful for mixing and matching).

    There are also several other sets which give set bonuses that are more defensive in nature, which might be preferred if your build is a bit squishy. The ones @protoneus mentioned generally fall into this category.

    There is one AP set bonus, but it is on an oddball set consisting of the Ancient AP omni, the Obelisk warp core, and a third piece which is not commonly available (I forget what it is). Since you are flying a warbird, you can't equip the warp core (which sucks anyway), and you're doing a cannon build so the omni really wouldn't fit anyway, so....
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,561 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    also....

    DHCs are energy weapons and fire much faster than a torpedo. You're simply not going to see the same kind of single-hit numbers out of a DHC that you saw from a torpedo. But because they fire faster, you might be doing more damage over time.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    Thematic or canon considerations are important which is one reason for using loadouts. In a situation where more damage is requested for higher levels of gameplay it doesn't make sense to me to remove one of four forward firing main weapons that are close to continuously buffed.

    It might make more sense if the torpedo related firing mode were kept closer to global (cooldowns) or if the torpedo was part of a set with complimentary pieces or effects and also part of a larger picture in the build (i.e. Entwined Tactical Matrices + Supercharged Weapons) but even these make more sense on a 8 gun cruiser.

    With 4-5 empty slots potentially available was thinking of assimilated module + temporal disentanglement suite + lorca console + voth phase decoy or crystalline absorption matrix or polymorphic probe array + something like the Valdore console as they're all relatively easy to obtain.

    Combine some of these with other improvements mentioned above and the ship should be in good shape for advanced or better gameplay.

    There's a few pieces and ways of doing things that may have to be left behind for gains to be realized.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,561 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    Just as an example... my own AP build is currently using:
    D/E/W/S:
    Fleet Intervention protomatter deflector
    Elite Fleet Plasma-Integrated warp core [AMP][Eff][SSR][W->E][WCap] (gains [W->S] when upgraded)
    Nukara rep impulse/shield 2pc set (+5% cat2 damage to all energy weapons)

    Consoles:
    5x Vulnerability Locator [AP] (using all the tac slots, currently flying an escort with no universal slots)
    Aligned Antiproton Shielding*
    Alliance Tactics*
    Crystalline Absorption Matrix
    Polymorphic Probes
    Voth Phase Decoy
    Exotic Particle Field Exciter [EPS] (R&D Science level 15 console)

    The two marked * are from the 2020 and 2021 Anniversary ships, which as I understand you do not have, but their passives are similar to the other three. (+AP Damage, etc.) The Assimilated, Valdore, Tachyokinetic, etc. could be used in those slots. (Lorca is tac-only. I don't have it on this character but if I did, it would swap in for one of the Locators).

    There may be better options (I don't parse), but it works pretty well...

    BOFFs:
    (As a non-Romulan Fed officer,) I'm using two Embassy Romulan Tac BOFFS, supplemented with the Sci and Eng Jem'Hadar Vanguard and a Diplomacy Nausicaan Engineer (would swap for a Hierarchy Science if on a ship with two sci seats; the Hierarchy's traits are actually very slightly better than the Nausicaan).

    Post edited by westmetals on
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    PPSmAQr.jpg

    oCbCDEQ.jpg

    Took the ship through The Ninth Rule patrol on advanced difficulty and managed to defeat the respawning end mob in it's entirety which is usually a good sign a ship is working well. The Valdore Console really helps to keep shields up. This is a nice Romulan Warbird.

    Skill Tree - Tactical Template

    Consoles, engineering - Assimilated Module, Valdore Console (Shield Absorptive Frequency Generator)

    Consoles, science - Voth Phase Decoy, Crystalline Absorption Matrix, Aligned Antiproton Shielding, Polymorphic Probe Array (1)

    Consoles, universal - Lorca's Custom Fire Controls

    Space Set - Fleet Intervention Deflector, Fortified Competitive Engines, 2 piece Discovery singularity and shield

    Front Weapons - 4x crafted Antiproton DHC

    Rear Weapons - 2x crafted Antiproton Turret, 1x Voth Antiproton Turret, Voice of the Prophets

    Note 1 - if not using A2B the Temporal Disentanglement Suite could replace any of the +AP consoles in science.

    Active Duty Doffs - 3x very rare Technician from B'Tran Cluster, Agent Nerul, Emergency Conn Officer

    Space Reputation - Tyler's Duality, Precision, Advanced Targeting Systems, Magnified Firepower, Controlled Countermeasures (2)

    Starship Traits - Emergency Weapons Cycle, Withering Barrage, Improved Critical Systems, Advanced Firing Solutions, Cold Hearted (2)

    Note 2 - Controlled Countermeasures & Cold Hearted if available and only if using A2B

    Genetic Resequencers - Inspirational Leader, Repair Crews

    Haven't got Reactive Armor Catalysts unlocked on this toon so am using crafted hull patch batteries.
  • jinno1993#9127 jinno1993 Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    Hi guys, I'm using this build now:

    FORE: 4x Antiproton DHCs [CtrD]x3 [Pen] [CrtH/CrtD]
    AFT: 1x Kintic Cutting Beam [Dmg] x4 | 2x Delphic Antiproton Turret [CrtD] x3 [Proc] [CrtH/CrtD]

    DEFLECTOR: Elite Fleet Intervention Protomatter
    ENGINES: Nukara Impulse Engine
    SINGULARITY: Elite Fleet Thoron-Infused (but I'd really prefer the one that boosts Shd, Eng and Aux up to +10).
    SHIELDS: Nukara Crystalline

    ENG CONSOLES:
    1x Conductive RCS
    1x Crystalline Matrix (AP Damage)

    SCI CONSOLES:
    1x ... (the crafted one that gives EPS)
    1x Epic Embassy Consoles (will replace it ASAP)
    1x Valdore Console
    1x Morrigu Console (so I get the Valdore set bonus -20% Weapons Power Cost)

    TAC CONSOLES:
    5x Elite Fleet Consoles (AP/CrtH) Mk XIV (going to get 6th asap)

    DEVICES:
    Never used ... don't like Consumbles and I don't even have room in Skill Trails



    SPACE REP. TRAITS:
    Precision | Advanced Targeting Systems | Radiant Detonation Matrix | Omega Graviton Amplifier | Chrono-Buffer Array (reduction BOFFs Recharge Times)

    STARSHIP TRAITS:
    Emergency Power Cycle | Improved Pedal to the Metal | other crappy stuff that I'll replace ASAP

    GENETIC RESEQ. TRAITS:
    - Inspiration Leader
    - Helmsman



    DOFFs:
    3x - Purple Technician
    1x - Purple Energy Weapons Officer (the one that boosts Energy Weapons Damage)
    2x - EMPTY SLOTS
    (I'll probably fill this with Conn Officers that reduce Evasive Maneuvers)

    BOFFs
    TAC Cmd: TT-1 | APB-1 | KLW-3 | CSV-1
    TAC Lt: NOT USED (I'll use BSC-1 and DT2 as soon as I get them)
    ENG Lt. Cmd: ET-1 | ATB-1 | RSP-2
    ENG Ens: EPTW-1
    SCI Lt. Cmd: ST-1 | HE-2 | PO2



    ==============================================================================
    The original idea was to use GW to concentrate many enemies in a closed area and bomb them with CSW, KLW and Radiant Detonation Matrix, while Embassy Consoles buffed the GW and added some cool DOT effect to CSW.

    Of course is pointless now, since I switch GW for PO and since I'm Running A2B Build.

    Omega Graviton Amplifier is cause I didn't find anything better.
    Same for Chrono-Buffer Array.


    ==============================================================================
    I posted this to ask what should I try to get now: to be honest ... I don't really like Voth Probe Consoles.
    I don't like Universal Consoles at all, actually: it's disgusting (to me, at least) the idea of having a console that can fit everywhere ... it makes the Ship's Consoles Configurations pointless.

    Also, I don't like the idea of wasting a Console Slot just for 1 bonus that consoles gives: that's why I don't like to keep Assimilated Module if I remove Kintic Cutting Beam.

    Also, I came to like KCB ... it deals nice damage to targets. But of course I'm ok removing it, if it's pointless.
  • jinno1993#9127 jinno1993 Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    GODDAMMIT ... I spent 1h writing a post ... I posted and it vanished.
    For f***'s sake !

    BTW I did most of the things you said.
  • jinno1993#9127 jinno1993 Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    Hi guys,

    I tried 4x DHCs but I don't really like it, so I switched back to 3x DHCs + 1x Torpedo.

    Considering this, which Specializations should I choose ?
    1st is Pilot for sure (completed)
    2nd ... ?

    I was thinking about Command (due to that Torpedo Expose thing) but also Stategist seems cool (even tho I have few healing abilities).

    When I had 4x Embassy Consoles I used to have Temporal, but now it seems useless.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    Using an all cannon escort build is a play style that can take a couple of weeks to get accustomed to. It can be satisfying finding there isn't anything left of enemy groups to shoot a torpedo at.

    I use Intel primary Strategist secondary on most of my toons aside from those flying a science ship who use Temporal primary.

    Pilot is something I left behind a little after Delta Rising for the most part.

    Strategist seems to be about more than just being useful in conjunction with healing abilities. Show of Force + Attrition Warfare + Maneuver Warfare can give +20% CrtD +15% Bonus Damage and +20% hull & shield regen just by leaving threatening stance off.

    Combined with other good stuff (i.e. torpedo immunities) and the increase in shield capacity Strategist seems to be a decent choice for a secondary specialization.
  • jinno1993#9127 jinno1993 Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    Using an all cannon escort build is a play style that can take a couple of weeks to get accustomed to. It can be satisfying finding there isn't anything left of enemy groups to shoot a torpedo at.

    Believe it or not, when I run 3x DHCs + Torpedo it happens all the times.
    Anything gets vanished before torpedoes can impact.

    When I run 4x DHCs it doesn't happen and it takes 2/3 rounds to blow up enemies, especial tougher ships (such as Negh'Var in the new TFO).

    protoneous wrote: »
    I use Intel primary Strategist secondary on most of my toons aside from those flying a science ship who use Temporal primary.

    Pilot is something I left behind a little after Delta Rising for the most part.

    Strategist seems to be about more than just being useful in conjunction with healing abilities. Show of Force + Attrition Warfare + Maneuver Warfare can give +20% CrtD +15% Bonus Damage and +20% hull & shield regen just by leaving threatening stance off.

    Combined with other good stuff (i.e. torpedo immunities) and the increase in shield capacity Strategist seems to be a decent choice for a secondary specialization.

    So you say I should go Strategist for second ?
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,561 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    I personally like Command, mainly (though for other reasons also) because of its passive +Hull Capacity bonus.

    If you use the reputation trait "Tyler's Duality" (Discovery rep), it gives variable benefit based on your hull, so the +Hull Capacity comes in handy there.

    ... I know it's perhaps not the best, but I sometimes run Command/Strategist on weapons builds for that reason.

    Science ships get Temporal/Command or Temporal/Strategist.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    Using an all cannon escort build is a play style that can take a couple of weeks to get accustomed to. It can be satisfying finding there isn't anything left of enemy groups to shoot a torpedo at.

    Believe it or not, when I run 3x DHCs + Torpedo it happens all the times.
    Anything gets vanished before torpedoes can impact.

    When I run 4x DHCs it doesn't happen and it takes 2/3 rounds to blow up enemies, especial tougher ships (such as Negh'Var in the new TFO).

    protoneous wrote: »
    I use Intel primary Strategist secondary on most of my toons aside from those flying a science ship who use Temporal primary.

    Pilot is something I left behind a little after Delta Rising for the most part.

    Strategist seems to be about more than just being useful in conjunction with healing abilities. Show of Force + Attrition Warfare + Maneuver Warfare can give +20% CrtD +15% Bonus Damage and +20% hull & shield regen just by leaving threatening stance off.

    Combined with other good stuff (i.e. torpedo immunities) and the increase in shield capacity Strategist seems to be a decent choice for a secondary specialization.

    So you say I should go Strategist for second ?

    If the bad guys are getting killed faster using 3 DHC's than with 4 that's not making sense to me. They process should be faster with more forward facing main weapons. How is your weapons power level? Are you running the attack power preset?

    Strategist seems to be a good choice for a secondary specialization. I'd give it a try.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 7,561 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    protoneous wrote: »
    protoneous wrote: »
    Using an all cannon escort build is a play style that can take a couple of weeks to get accustomed to. It can be satisfying finding there isn't anything left of enemy groups to shoot a torpedo at.

    Believe it or not, when I run 3x DHCs + Torpedo it happens all the times.
    Anything gets vanished before torpedoes can impact.

    When I run 4x DHCs it doesn't happen and it takes 2/3 rounds to blow up enemies, especial tougher ships (such as Negh'Var in the new TFO).

    protoneous wrote: »
    I use Intel primary Strategist secondary on most of my toons aside from those flying a science ship who use Temporal primary.

    Pilot is something I left behind a little after Delta Rising for the most part.

    Strategist seems to be about more than just being useful in conjunction with healing abilities. Show of Force + Attrition Warfare + Maneuver Warfare can give +20% CrtD +15% Bonus Damage and +20% hull & shield regen just by leaving threatening stance off.

    Combined with other good stuff (i.e. torpedo immunities) and the increase in shield capacity Strategist seems to be a decent choice for a secondary specialization.

    So you say I should go Strategist for second ?

    If the bad guys are getting killed faster using 3 DHC's than with 4 that's not making sense to me. They process should be faster with more forward facing main weapons. How is your weapons power level? Are you running the attack power preset?

    Strategist seems to be a good choice for a secondary specialization. I'd give it a try.

    I would be tempted to wonder about power too. If shifting one weapon from a projectile (which does not use power) to energy causes an actual (and not just a perceived) problem....

    One possible solution to that is by increasing your EPS skill, either in the skill tree and/or in your consoles (etc), as this helps your power levels regenerate after use.

    Romulan ships have a lower base power (total), so I would think it's possible that your power levels are not fully recovering between volleys.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,273 Arc User
    westmetals wrote: »
    protoneous wrote: »
    protoneous wrote: »
    Using an all cannon escort build is a play style that can take a couple of weeks to get accustomed to. It can be satisfying finding there isn't anything left of enemy groups to shoot a torpedo at.

    Believe it or not, when I run 3x DHCs + Torpedo it happens all the times.
    Anything gets vanished before torpedoes can impact.

    When I run 4x DHCs it doesn't happen and it takes 2/3 rounds to blow up enemies, especial tougher ships (such as Negh'Var in the new TFO).

    protoneous wrote: »
    I use Intel primary Strategist secondary on most of my toons aside from those flying a science ship who use Temporal primary.

    Pilot is something I left behind a little after Delta Rising for the most part.

    Strategist seems to be about more than just being useful in conjunction with healing abilities. Show of Force + Attrition Warfare + Maneuver Warfare can give +20% CrtD +15% Bonus Damage and +20% hull & shield regen just by leaving threatening stance off.

    Combined with other good stuff (i.e. torpedo immunities) and the increase in shield capacity Strategist seems to be a decent choice for a secondary specialization.

    So you say I should go Strategist for second ?

    If the bad guys are getting killed faster using 3 DHC's than with 4 that's not making sense to me. They process should be faster with more forward facing main weapons. How is your weapons power level? Are you running the attack power preset?

    Strategist seems to be a good choice for a secondary specialization. I'd give it a try.

    I would be tempted to wonder about power too. If shifting one weapon from a projectile (which does not use power) to energy causes an actual (and not just a perceived) problem....

    One possible solution to that is by increasing your EPS skill, either in the skill tree and/or in your consoles (etc), as this helps your power levels regenerate after use.

    Romulan ships have a lower base power (total), so I would think it's possible that your power levels are not fully recovering between volleys.

    Normally with 2 points into EPS on my skill tree, EPtW3 up all the time, the emergency weapons cycle starship trait, and weapons power maxed out or very close to it I seem to be ok even with 5 forward DHC's.

    With A2B there's an additional +20 weapons power for 10 seconds and better cool downs so maybe a bit of an advantage there.

    Without A2B still seems pretty good aside from when firing CSV and the emergency powers get a bit out of synch (don't quite reach enough cool down). There is a bit of a dip visible when that happens. Maybe a little bit of engineering readiness might be good if using PO2 only on a build.

    The reinforced armaments console (storyline reward) is an extra source I sometimes use to fill a console slot with an extra 50% EPS even when not using phasers as it gives hull capacity and restoration as well.

    The OP's conductive RCS [EPS] should allow for more than enough power flow if they were to give it a try providing weapons power is close to maxed out.
  • jinno1993#9127 jinno1993 Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    Sorry guys, i totally forgot to check the forum.

    My power levels are:

    Weapons: 125/100
    Shields: 46/30
    Engines: 36/15
    Auxiliary: 22/15

    Power Transfer Rate is: 408% (20.04 / sec)
    ==============================================================================
    I keep EPtW1 up every time I start shooting.
    Have:
    -10% Weapons Power Cost from Sing. Core.
    -25% Weapons Power Cost from Valdore+Morrigu sets console (which also give +5 Weapons Power Setting)

    and of course -50% every time I use EPtW1.

    It shouldn't be the Weapon Power, I think it's just my imagination (or maybe some server lag that makes me believe the enemies are blown up before the torpedoes).
    ==============================================================================

    BTW I wanted to ask another thing:

    Do you think Bellum Eng and Sci consoles from Discovery Reputation are good ?
    Honestly, I used to love the the Science ones that boost shield capacity, but I think they are not good anymore (but now with that Crit Chance bonus they may be viable again) ...
  • jinno1993#9127 jinno1993 Member Posts: 87 Arc User
    WTF is going on here ?
    I just noticed another post vanished ...

    Is someone deleting my posts ? Cause if so, I'd totally avoid wasting my time writing...
Sign In or Register to comment.