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Remain Klingon fail

So even with Martok and Adet'pa giving players easy to follow instructions and a big yellow pointer showing which ship to go to players are still flying around aimlessly with no understanding of game mechanics even when it's spelled out for them. It's become an amusing watch.

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  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    Lol It seems like a good way to weed out the Vets from the Noobs.
  • poddlipoddli Member Posts: 156 Arc User
    My first time in Remain Klingon (server came up, logged in, opened event page and clicked join) it took me a few minutes to suss out what to do. After that realisation it was simple. Get marked, evasive mans, zoom to other ship. Rinse repeat. My fellow players figured it out and we were done in something like 15-20 minutes.

    Twenty hours later, logged in, opened event page, clicked join. I knew what to do. Others did not and obstinately refused to learn or read either the in game text or the explanations myself and the other captain with a grasp on the mechanics gave out.

    It took over an hour. I have never been back to that TFO, I chose the alternate method available then and I am happily zooming around a moon's surface this time round. It takes a few minutes and I'm done with that and move on to other stuff. There are ways to speed To Hell With Honour up through effective play, there are no ways to utterly stymie the TFO with deliberate ignorance.
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 1,538 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    Yup. This is one of the few TFOs where an idiot and random chance makes the difference between a 10-minute breeze or any hour-long slog. Which is why I, 'needing' to run this event multiple times per day, chose Best Served Cold for my event needs. I can fly an alt to each of the main stations to keep them under my control while my main deals with everything else. It takes longer (and sometimes a transport bugs out, requiring a restart), but I can completely avoid idiots *AND* get all my requisite runs done at once. If you're on your own, but powerful enough, To Hell With Honor is an option, too. If you're not, well, you're still better off grouping up for either of the other TFOs until someone at Cryptic removes heads from butts and 'tweaks' Remain Klingon mechanics to eliminate the idiot-check mechanic.

    Note: you *might* be able to get away with 2 captains in Best Served Cold, if one of the captains is in a ridiculously fast ship, but you cannot get beyond phase 1 until all 3 stations are under allied control. If you can't swing that, this TFO cannot be done.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,679 Arc User
    I haven't tried Remain Klingon and after hearing what goes on, I'm glad I don't do that one.

    I always queue up for To Hell With Honor on both my accts, run them and be done with it.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

    xp8s7wd.jpg
  • knightmare#8708 knightmare Member Posts: 140 Arc User
    There are also a lot of players that are Deliberately NOT flying to the ships when they get targeted, you see them either fly off into space or they just stay put. You can tell the ones who do this on purpose from those that may not know because they keep doing the same thing every time. They make this 15 min TFO into one that lasts 45 mins. I was in one where three of of five players deliberately gathered together when they got targeted just to TRIBBLE everyone else off.
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 1,538 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    There are also a lot of players that are Deliberately NOT flying to the ships when they get targeted, you see them either fly off into space or they just stay put. You can tell the ones who do this on purpose from those that may not know because they keep doing the same thing every time. They make this 15 min TFO into one that lasts 45 mins. I was in one where three of of five players deliberately gathered together when they got targeted just to TRIBBLE everyone else off.

    Yup. If you create a mechanic that players can use to troll other players, there's no question of *IF* it will happen. It *WILL* happen. The only question is just how *MUCH* of an a-hole you will allow other players to be before cutting them off, and *GOOD* development makes sure it's quick enough to ever become a problem in the first place. Cryptic does not have good development. The developers aren't bad. They might even be fantastic. But the totality of their work is either either lazy, inept, or too time constrained to do the necessary diligence to keep this kind of thing from happening. Which is why more TFOs keep having this problem.

    Or maybe this is deliberate? A means of artificially inflating play time during events, and make the buy-out option more appealing?? Because at this point, I can't rule that possibility out, given the questionable (at best) nature of many recent decisions for STO.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,742 Arc User
    I still don't understand what convinces people to queue for this public.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,414 Arc User
    On balance of things I've gotten runs that are pretty smooth on this TFO, it's only when I have to run it after 20:00 (local time) that I run into trolls sabotashing the TFO on purpose at least in numbers where it counts.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,742 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »
    On balance of things I've gotten runs that are pretty smooth on this TFO, it's only when I have to run it after 20:00 (local time) that I run into trolls sabotashing the TFO on purpose at least in numbers where it counts.

    But why take the chance when you can run 'To Hell With Honor' and carry the entire team yourself to a guaranteed quick win?

    It's not the queue itself.. I actually like Remain Klingon.. I would run it with someone like you any day.. but with PUGS? No thanks.. not worth the risk when I can just run To Hell With Honor and be done in a few min guaranteed.

    Just not worth the risk.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    I mean... really how dumb must you be to skip dialogue or refuse to read the hints before complaining that it's too hard, it's not hard to take your time and do basic reading, but I'm guessing that some players are illiterate.
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    I don't consider this to be bad development. It just rasonably assumes that players will want to engage in the content as intended. And there is something else to consider... How many players queuing for this are doing so because one of them wants to try to solo it and the others who join with them are there just to fill up an instance, and if other players are also running it, then at least it's more challenge for the player who wants to solo it. There might not be malicious intent, though the result is inconvenient for those who just want to get the job done and move on to the next repetitive thing on their daily checklist of stuff to run over and over and over and over and over again...
    Cryptic Studios CAN'T
    because
    Perfect World Entertainment WON'T
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,961 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    I haven't tried Remain Klingon and after hearing what goes on, I'm glad I don't do that one.

    I always queue up for To Hell With Honor on both my accts, run them and be done with it.

    Well, that mission can also take unnecessarily long with players for some lame reason feeling the urge to engage the Lukara before there's any point in doing that.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,961 Arc User
    I still don't understand what convinces people to queue for this public.

    Surprises, having a random element.

    I like to PUG missions because you never know who you're going to encounter.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,145 Arc User
    I still don't understand what convinces people to queue for this public.
    No kinkshaming, please. :P

    Some people love seeing an increase of 4.47% of their DPS spreadsheets, others love having chuckles watching people flying cluelessly in their expensive ships.
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,884 Arc User
    I have not run into that many really bad PUGs for Remain Klingon and it actually seems to take less time than the other two. Of course, since it lacks the timer-infestation of Best Served Cold and the excruciatingly long distances between targets of To Hell With Honor both of which serve to make those TFOs seem longer, that might be an illusion.

    Either way, even going in with PUGs Remain Klingon doesn't seem to actually last longer than about twenty or twenty-five minutes even on a bad run, and about ten to fifteen on the great-to-decent ones.

    I have seen people ignoring having been targeted, most seem to only do it once or twice without trying to make a run for the target ship so they may not have noticed they were targeted (at some screen resolutions if you have three hotbars up the arrow gets lost behind them and the Boff skill bars for instance). Then there is also the effect of all the bright flashing spam on the screen in combat nowadays which does not help that situation either.

    Also, once in a while you get someone who is focused on getting one or more of the endeavors done and is inconsiderate enough to drag the scenario out longer to get enough kills or inflict enough of the right energy to complete it (or them) in one run. Usually, the rest of the players can pick up most of the slack though unless RNG is totally against the team and the foot-dragger is the only one targeted for many cycles.

    The longest TFO I have been in has always been Gravity Kills, if too many people bail it can take forty-five minutes to an hour or more.
  • echattyechatty Member Posts: 5,679 Arc User
    echatty wrote: »
    I haven't tried Remain Klingon and after hearing what goes on, I'm glad I don't do that one.

    I always queue up for To Hell With Honor on both my accts, run them and be done with it.

    Well, that mission can also take unnecessarily long with players for some lame reason feeling the urge to engage the Lukara before there's any point in doing that.

    Thankfully I haven't run into that. Yet.

    The only annoyance are all the turrets out there shooting at you unless you can fly high enough not to be targeted by them.
    Now a LTS and loving it.

    Just because you spend money on this game, it does not entitle you to be a jerk if things don't go your way.

    xp8s7wd.jpg
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,742 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    echatty wrote: »
    I haven't tried Remain Klingon and after hearing what goes on, I'm glad I don't do that one.

    I always queue up for To Hell With Honor on both my accts, run them and be done with it.

    Well, that mission can also take unnecessarily long with players for some lame reason feeling the urge to engage the Lukara before there's any point in doing that.

    If you engage the Lukara early, it just cloaks after it takes too much damage and waits to appear again. If a player in my group is doing that, fine.. I am still flying from objective to objective and making progress. Yes, it would probably be slightly faster if they were attacking the correct objective, but the reason I pick THWO is because no matter what they do I can complete the entire queue myself and do it pretty quickly.

    Oddly, the main objective for me in group content in STO is to try and depend on my group as little as possible and that is how I pick my queue. In a premade, sure.. bring it on.. in public I go in assuming it will be me and 4 AFK's. When someone actually helps it's just a bonus.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,628 Arc User
    I guess I've been lucky...I've had one that took like 25 minutes but never a hour or more, honestly I probably would have taken the deserter penalty before it got that long
    #WithoutRespectWeReject
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,153 Arc User
    every time I ran it (4 times) I was so blinded by SFX I never saw the arrows or anything else.
    awkward.jpg
    We Want Vic Fontaine
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,638 Arc User
    jadizbane wrote: »
    So even with Martok and Adet'pa giving players easy to follow instructions and a big yellow pointer showing which ship to go to players are still flying around aimlessly with no understanding of game mechanics even when it's spelled out for them. It's become an amusing watch.
    Or you know all the major TFO breaking bugs from last time this event ran are still there. I did 1 run of this and the arrow pointed to the planet away from the ships. There was no green circle around the ships. Sometimes the green circle does show but doesnt register when we fly though it at which point I cannot possibly turn my ship around fast enough for a 2nd attempt. All well documents bugs from the last time the event ran.

    I refuse to run this anymore as its clear the devs made no effort to fix all the major bugs from last time the event ran. So don't blame the payers so quickly for what is a buggy horrible mess of a TFO.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,145 Arc User
    I just learned something from this TFO today:
    Kagran and Martok are supposed to mention the escaping ships bit, but that's literally, ever since the TFO was released, the very first time I saw and heard this, so it's bugged most of the time for me.
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • detheaterdetheater Member Posts: 71 Arc User
    I think there is a simple answer to this problem. If you are targeted and do not go to the correct ship the blast should automatically blow your ship up (no mitigations just boom), or pull you through the rift and hold you there unable to do anything until another attack is succesful on the same ship.

    This will either encourage people to participate or frustrate them enough not to que for it. If you are doing it correct this will occasionally blow your ship up (I mean occasionally my speedup abilities are on cooldown and I jsut miss the ship) but I would be more than willing to put up with an occasional explosion to help make this TFO better to PUG.
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 1,538 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    detheater wrote: »
    I think there is a simple answer to this problem. If you are targeted and do not go to the correct ship the blast should automatically blow your ship up (no mitigations just boom), or pull you through the rift and hold you there unable to do anything until another attack is succesful on the same ship.

    This will either encourage people to participate or frustrate them enough not to que for it. If you are doing it correct this will occasionally blow your ship up (I mean occasionally my speedup abilities are on cooldown and I jsut miss the ship) but I would be more than willing to put up with an occasional explosion to help make this TFO better to PUG.

    Damage based on proximity to the firing ship would help some, with anything closer than 10km to the dread firing it being a 1-shot. More over, if the attack does hit a ship within 10km, the cooldown on it should automatically reset so the dread can immediately select a new target and fire again. That improves the chances that a competent player will be targeted, since the previous fail player is dead and can't be selected (by either dread) for another 30+ seconds.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,742 Arc User
    detheater wrote: »
    I think there is a simple answer to this problem. If you are targeted and do not go to the correct ship the blast should automatically blow your ship up (no mitigations just boom), or pull you through the rift and hold you there unable to do anything until another attack is succesful on the same ship.

    This will either encourage people to participate or frustrate them enough not to que for it. If you are doing it correct this will occasionally blow your ship up (I mean occasionally my speedup abilities are on cooldown and I jsut miss the ship) but I would be more than willing to put up with an occasional explosion to help make this TFO better to PUG.

    While I like the idea.. lets be honest.. all this would do is turn it into a completely dead queue. When people got it in Random, they would automatically drop because they won't understand why they keep getting 'one shotted.'

    I have to agree with some posters that a lot of this queues problem is it's just absolutely buggy nature. I did a run not too long ago where I had no arrow on me at all and no indicator of where to go. The only way I knew was the audio queues telling me which ship was vulnerable.. when I got near it, only then did the green area appear. In fact, most of the times I have played it, I have not seen the arrows, I believe that is due to the fact that I tend to fly large ships. The queue is bugged so that the arrow doesn't display on ships over a certain size.

    My first preference would be for them to actually fix this queue. If that doesn't work, then yeah.. start blowing people up for not listening.. I can get on board with that. :lol:
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • captainkoltarcaptainkoltar Member Posts: 767 Arc User
    I've been quite lucky with this one too - I've rarely had a problem with it.

    It did take me a while to figure out what to do properly, but once I got it, I was away.
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