Upcoming Changes to Minimum Requirements

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  • whiteknight1x
    whiteknight1x Member Posts: 122 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    As of today, players whose system doesn't meet the upcoming requirements for Windows 8/10 or Direct3D Feature Level 11 will be notified upon starting the game launcher. They will still be able to play under their current system until February 15, 2022 when the system changes will go live. We strongly recommend updating prior to the change.

    So you guys are more bent on losing a quarter of your player base, as opposed to fixing the hundred thousand or so bugs in your code. Nice.

    They can't fix the code because its to old. The orginal team left plus if we want this game to grow it needs to update it's Graphics. Every review I read about this game in the past 3 years says this game is fun but the Graphic are just to old. If your systems is newer than 6yrs your most likely are OK. DX 11 was last updated in 2013 and current DX 12 has been out since 2015. Intel forth Gen 13 4000+ APU meets DX 11 requirements. I wish they would just jump to DX 12 but they are purposely only going to DX 11 because their monitor program tells them that a large plays base still using DX 11.
  • kenshinh42
    kenshinh42 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    I can run FF14 on ultra, Cyberpunk with zero problems and most all new games on steam. But I guess I have to drop STOL because win7.
    Ground combat was getting too frustrating with crapp response when trying to do anything.
    My wife has a better machine with win 10pro and I swear her game runs worse.

    Guess a good a time as ever to drop.
    or till someone hacks a work around.

    Post edited by kenshinh42 on
  • jcsww
    jcsww Member Posts: 6,555 Arc User
    kenshinh42 wrote: »
    I can run FF14 on ultra, Cyberpunk with zero problems and most all new games on steam. But I guess I have to drop STOL because win7.
    Ground combat was getting too frustrating with crapp response when trying to do anything.
    My wife has a better machine with win 10pro and I swear her game runs worse.

    Guess a good a time as ever to drop.
    or till someone hacks a work around.

    This game is so old, it could run on a phone! That being said though. Even phones require security updates and after a few years, the OS version isn't supported by important apps, games, etc. Everything you run on Windows 7 will run equally as well on Windows 10 or Windows 11.
  • richard1279
    richard1279 Member Posts: 26 Arc User

    Um - if you think they (Microsoft) didn't/don't have the capability to look at your Windows 7 when you're on the net - Hahahaha! They have avenues into every Windows OS they've developed. Win10 doesn't have any more or any less 'Microsoft spying' ability then Windows 7 had. Quit watching Youtube conspiracy videos. If anything Windows 7 is WAY more vulnerable across the board because the codebase has been available to the hacking community for a few more years than Windows 10.

    You want to beliebe you're 'safer' on the net with Windows 7, be my guest. But the reality is, you're not.


    I find it interesting, how you and others pick which arguments you can argue against, but do not touch other concerns I've raised, in your defense of an operating system designed to take your data, and the data your system has stored on others. All over the net these concerns are raised. There are STILL articles being written by tech sites that all say, and I'm paraphrasing here, there is NO way to disable all of the telemetry and spying ability of windows 10, FOR THEIR BASIC AND PRO VERSIONS, unlike their education and enterprise versions, where assumably it can be done (which makes sense: what company that values their IP and general privacy/security would agree to use software that permanently allows stealing of their data?). Microsoft's own forums are littered with posts of people raising concerns and they get replies from actual microsoft staff that says, and again paraphrasing: tough! windows10 is a service and you agreed to these intrusions when you installed (which if you remember, MS did not give a HUGE number of people any option to not install it), and used the OS on your system. Which they are contradicting themselves via the same Windows10 EULA stating that windows10 is property and not a sevice.

    As for programs to help disable these things, they can't, without deleting stuff and creating a case for future problems. There's no way I'm going to try to research ALL of these programs, but a couple that came up on tech websites, including microsoft's forums, all say these programs either cause damage in the long run by "Irreparably" deleting things (ie no way to restore what is removed), OR switching settings in the registry (which windows10 allows, but ignores, hence the false assurance), or both.

    "Win10 doesn't have any more or any less 'Microsoft spying' ability then Windows 7 had." That's a complete fallacy. Windows7 has less, and more importantly, it has far less BUILT INTO IT. Windows7 started having telemetry and spyware being added to it via windows update, around the same time MS disguised the win10 upgrade as an essential "security update". The difference is we can choose to not install these updates, remove them if we did not catch it in time, and TURN OFF WINDOWS UPDATE ENTIRELY. We could pick and choose what we wanted installed via windows update (Example: there's an update to make MS publisher more compatible with my OS? That's great! But I don't use publisher and never will. Okay, this update can be bypassed). I don't recall ever reading anything about MS bypassing a disabled windows updater on windows7, to install something without the owner's knowledge or consent. That was done with XP, and the solution was easy: disable windows updater, and if the distrust was high enough: get 3rd party security software. BUT, playing devil's advocate: if XP had the same level of spying wind10 has, I don't remember the people that found the unauthorized connection raise a stink about any other part of XP (services, files, etc) spying on you. But maybe you or someone else have proof that XP had the same level of spying, telemetry, and MS access that windows10 has? Maybe give me a specific search I can do on startpage or qwant and find an article or report?

    "if you think they (Microsoft) didn't/don't have the capability to look at your Windows 7 when you're on the net - Hahahaha! They have avenues into every Windows OS they've developed." You are absolutely correct on this. MS has designed a "feature" in windows OSes from as early as winxp sp2 with hardcoded DNS domain names that will resolve to their proper IP addresses regardless of what you put into the HOSTS file; all MS addresses. BUT only on windows7 did I get certain files TRIBBLE about wanting to connect to the web, and if it doesn't, your internet gets disabled, or windows performance gets inhibited (both of these examples I've personally experienced). I've read articles on win10 doing the same. NEVER has that happened to me on windowsXP or Vista. But again, maybe you can provide proof this happened to others? Maybe personal experience from yourself (assuming you're old enough to have used vista, xp, millenium and/or 95. If not, my apologies for making the assumption)?

    That is why my security software is 3RD party, and not something built into windows! Windows by itself will never be secure. Sure they may stop (or at least try to) hackers, but they don't prevent connections to the mothership, who thinks because they put it in their EULA, they have any legal carte blanche permission to a user's personal files/Data, OR files/data the user has on other people saved to their system (this is the difference between a "service" versus a "property" I mentioned in previous posts). Someone mentioned if this were all true, why have MS been allowed to get away with it. I guess the poster forgot that there WAS an outcry when people woke up to WIN10 on their system, AND a few people DID file lawsuits against them for it. I also guess the poster forgot MS has the resources to fight back and "continue the course" and weather all of our objections; making concessions here and there when they couldn't line the people's pockets with money anymore. And now we have people that KNOW everything I'm saying can be verified, but choose to live with it now, because of a sense of not having a choice (they grew up using windows, and their jobs require they use windows being 2 popular reasons). And we have people bypassing the validity of the whole argument with "yeah windows spys on you, what can you do? And anyway why are YOU so concerned about privacy? What do YOU have to hide?" As if that invalidates the concern.

    I am no genius, or security specialist, or God, and I NEVER implied I was one, nor do I know more than people who are. BUT I've used windowsXP up until 2015 and never got caught with ransomware or any other malady that mass infected pepole. I've even had cable technicians who wanted to use the pc comment on how fast it was at starting up, and loading their company's web pages! Don't get me wrong: in my college days (early 2000's) I've had infections that wiped out my entire system. In fact the last destructive infection my pc contracted was around 2008. Since then, along with having good 3rd party security software, I've become more vigilant, and careful, and kept my XP system more or less malware free.
    And when I bought a windows7 machine a few years later, up to now I have not had any problems with malware infecting my system.

    So save your (collective, not just you) fear tactics and insults. It IS possible to be secure while using an OS that's no longer supported, with some common sense and due vigilance. And you all have some audacity to think you all know any of us or can begin to comprehend all of the reasons why we either choose, or are forced to stay with, Windows7 for the time being. And with the arrogance some of you have shown here, it's moot because you don't WANT to understand. BUT I bet the moment STO or some other game you love tries to pull similar nonsense on you, you'll be up in arms too, and wondering why people can be so rude as to think they know all your reasons, valid or not, for objecting, and insinuating you're an idiot for saying anything in the first place!

    AND you all are doing nothing but deflecting from the topic at hand, which brought up my the issue of WHY the forced upgrade when windows7 can handle Direct3D version 11 with no issues. Or why they cannot fix the problems already existing before going all gung-ho with, as some of you assert: (paraphrasing) "keeping up with the Joneses", and adding even more problems.
    Another poster raised the compromise of giving the playerbase the option to still play, using windows7 WITH the direct3D version 11 requirement. I'm still waiting for a reply from management on why this is not a doable compromise. They get to add more bugs and glitches they will never fix (a reasonable assumption: Just look at all the broken things currently in STO that's been broken/troublesome for years now), and we get to still play a game representative of a franchise we've grown up with and loved!

  • richard1279
    richard1279 Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    Okay, serious question for all those won't upgrade out of a dead OS because of security...do you all own a smart phone? Use google or amazon? Or any map programs that isn't on a CD-rom? Use Netflix, Hulu or any other streaming services? Congrats, all your security issues are moot as you GAVE it all away already. Welcome to the modern world...you have no privacy because you gave it all away so you didn't have to pay 5 bucks a month to use the internet (and no this doesn't mean your ISP).

    I think I agree with you? lol.

    The OS is my issue because of how Microsoft has tried to illegally enforce data mining. I don't know the rules about linking to other websites, but on answers.microsoft.com's website there's a post/question titled "Why does Microsoft falsely claim that Windows is a service to justify abusing Windows owners' rights?" that explains in detail how microsoft illegally tries to use the EULA to say that, basically, Windows10 is a product that you are purchasing or otherwise receiving a license to use a single copy of, but then goes on to say they have the right to all of the information the OS accesses, as if the OS is now a service.

    By extension, the smart phone and android/apple operating systems are property. BUT everything it connects to are services (all the stuff you listed, and more). But because of the way the OSes are dependent on the services, and the way these services and apps "require" access to data, unless laws are changed, one would be a fool to expect any kind of privacy while using a mobile device.

    If MS had created windows 10 with the same privacy and security concerns they used on windows7 and earlier OSes, then the only real concern I would have with upgrading is the stability of windows 10. But sadly this is not the case, and I wish the STO management would give this the proper consideration it needs before demanding/forcing the upgrade.

    So...let me get this straight.

    You are afraid of surface level data mining...that your phone or shopping at Amazon does so much better at and you GLADLY even PAY for them to do these thing to you no less...that you will use an insecure DEAD OS?!? There was one vulnerability that was so bad that MS provided a patch for it for even windows 7, but since windows 7 became a dead OS, there has been literally over a HUNDRED security patches for the NOT dead windows versions that was not done for windows 7. Even if only half of them would apply (which is a stupidly low estimate considering that the sever issue was common in version of windows going back before windows 7 even), you are looking at several dozens of security breech issues. So you are willing to risk CC information, your social security, bank information...all of that to stop some rather MINOR data mining that can be EASILY TURNED OFF?!? Are you out of your bloody mind?!?

    The last time I bought anything from Amazon was over 8 years ago. And never bought anything from ebay. My phone is an old android 4.2 which I've disabled most of google's services/apps, and any game or app that requires it. I don't use kik, snapchat, skype, discord, etc. on my phone. I don't even keep photos on it. I do keep a contact list though, and whatsapp (a necessary evil), which is the only reason why I have not disabled google play services itself, but I did not create an account for it (I downloaded whatsapp from another repository, so even when it requires updates, I'm not required to sign into, or create, a google account). I did use waze until google bought them out, at which point I removed it.
    Thanks for making false assumptions :-1:

    As for the the "all of that to stop some rather MINOR data mining that can be EASILY TURNED OFF?!? " I wrote a lenghty post that the mods have yet to approve, saying how a simple search for articles posted in 2020 and 2021 still say not all of it can be turned off, in the basic and pro versions of Win10, even with using 3rd party software. THAT can only be done on the education and enterprise versions of Windows10. I'm not going to assume you are a student, or have some deal with a company, or can afford windows10 Enterprise, but I will say I do not fit into either of those categories.

    And this is all deflecting from the real issues at hand, brought up by the announcement. My issue being why disallow windows7 when it fully supports Direct3D version 11, when the easy compromise that at least one other poster offered would easily satisfy everyone? To be honest, the only reason cryptic SHOULD care what operating system we use is if it hampers their use of Direct3D, which, it would not, since win7 fully supports DirectX11, and all it's subsets, which includes the Direct3d version 11 subset.

    PS: There have been other assumptions and arrogant people putting words in my mouth that I just won't justify a reply to. But Just to make one major point clear, I argued over security because it was brought up, but my real concern is with privacy. I've never devled into win10's security, so I cannot say with any certainty how secure it is. But, again, to repeat: My real concern with Win10 is privacy.

    WOW...just WOW. If you are using android 4.2 still and you connected to a wifi anywhere, you might as well have made a clone of all data on your phone and posted it on a public website. You are so damn worried about privacy, you are utterly lacking in SECURITY. Which makes privacy a moot thing when hackers can easily get at anything you have. Obviously, you have nothing of worth now which is why they have left you alone...but as soon as you do...you are done. I sure as hope you are not using your whatsapp on that phone for anything to do with work if you work at anyplace that is of even minor note. You do know that in many states, you can be held liable for not properly securing assets for your job...right? Like using unsupported OS. So I sure as hell hope that you ain't required to use whatsapp for work. If you are, your IT person needs a chat with for allowing somebody to use dead OS for work. If you have an IT department, it would be on them...if not...it's on you. This is why you should NOT use personal phones for work. If you need a phone for work, your work needs to provide one with proper securities in place. That aside, it's not just google. So you use Bing? Or Yahoo? Have an e-mail account not from a domain you personally pay for? And you removed waze...but so you use paper maps going forwards now? No Amazon...great...so you don't do ANY online shopping? Or search for things online before buying them? Obviously, TRIBBLE of any sort is just out.
    Or Youtube. Or any video service really. Unless you live like somebody from 25 years ago, YOU HAVE NO PRIVACY. At least not on a level that windows 10 intrudes on it. You mention a few things you don't do...but I HIGHLY doubt you don't do all the things you actually have to do for more privacy than what windows 10 has access to.

    And if you can't deal with this minor level of privacy intrusion, you need to leave the US, EU, Australia or Canada if you live in those places because the intrusion into your MEDICAL histories that is coming will just utterly blow your mind. And when that happens, you won't be allowed to leave unless you comply. I'm sorry...but if you have that much of a hard on for privacy and are not planning to move out of those areas for someplace like a remote mountain in Tibet...you are all talk.

    As for why disallow windows 7...BECAUSE THE NET SECURITY FOR THAT OS IS SWISS CHEESE. Because SECURITY IS A THING. Because if they continue support for it, it means those of us who has moved on can't get proper security updates because it will break on windows 7. So...yeah no...that OS has been dead for YEARS now, it's WAY past time for them to have ditched support for it.

    "If you are using android 4.2 still and you connected to a wifi anywhere, you might as well have made a clone of all data on your phone and posted it on a public website." I don't. Not even to my house's wifi.

    " I sure as hope you are not using your whatsapp on that phone for anything to do with work if you work at anyplace that is of even minor note." I do not. It's for talking to 4 family members in another country. Hence the "necessary evil" part.

    "This is why you should NOT use personal phones for work." The only thing work-related I do with my phone is make/receive actual calls, calling in sick or something, or my manager asking if I can come into work to cover.

    "That aside, it's not just google. So you use Bing? Or Yahoo? Have an e-mail account not from a domain you personally pay for? " I use startpage, qwant, and/or duckduckgo, depending on which browser I'm using. for email, right now my primary ones are hosted by protonmail. I do not pay for their email, but I do pay for their VPN. Before them, I used other vpns (not before trying to guage their pros and cons via articles from sites that keep up with things like vpn, P2P, torrenting, etc.

    "No Amazon...great...so you don't do ANY online shopping? Or search for things online before buying them?" for the most part, no, I do little to no online shopping. When I do, I ask my sibling, who DOES laugh at me, but buys the item for me anyway :-p I do research items online before buying, through a VPN service, as mentioned above.

    Okay I had to cut out a lot because This is getting too long. But I'll reply to the last part.

    "As for why disallow windows 7...BECAUSE THE NET SECURITY FOR THAT OS IS SWISS CHEESE. Because SECURITY IS A THING. Because if they continue support for it, it means those of us who has moved on can't get proper security updates because it will break on windows 7. So...yeah no...that OS has been dead for YEARS now, it's WAY past time for them to have ditched support for it." I do not recall any patch notes that mention a security patch for operating systems, OR even the Direct3D environment. From what I remember, most of them detailed things being fixed within the game, irrespective of what OS players are using. So, again, As long as we can play the game with their requirement of Direct3D version 11, then they should not care what OS we use, as long as it supports Direct3d11, which windows 7, despite ALL of it's cons, fully supports! That's the bottom line no one seems to care about. For a bunch of opinionated posters (you, me, most of the posters here so far) that's fine, but for developers, and especially management of a company, in this case a gaming company, this should matter greatly. I mentioned before that I'm a lifetime sub and was made fun of for it by a fool. But between paying for subs for friends who could not afford it, and past occassional zen purchases (before I started getting annoyed with cryptic's/PW's gameing decisions) I have easily passed the $1000 mark in funds paid into this game. If STO could be properly taken care of, instead of being turned into a massive cash grab (like they sense the end and are trying for as much $$$ as they can get! idk.), who knows how much more I would have given. And I'm a Windows7 user, with an OS that, again, fully supports the graphics API STO's management wants to upgrade to And as proven from other posts on this topic thread, I'm not the only one. I have yet to hear/see any really valid reason why windows7 should be blocked, especially from the people that can actually answer this.
  • richard1279
    richard1279 Member Posts: 26 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    WOW...just WOW. If you are using android 4.2 still and you connected to a wifi anywhere, you might as well have made a clone of all data on your phone and posted it on a public website. You are so damn worried about privacy, you are utterly lacking in SECURITY. Which makes privacy a moot thing when hackers can easily get at anything you have. Obviously, you have nothing of worth now which is why they have left you alone...but as soon as you do...you are done. I sure as hope you are not using your whatsapp on that phone for anything to do with work if you work at anyplace that is of even minor note. You do know that in many states, you can be held liable for not properly securing assets for your job...right? Like using unsupported OS. So I sure as hell hope that you ain't required to use whatsapp for work. If you are, your IT person needs a chat with for allowing somebody to use dead OS for work. If you have an IT department, it would be on them...if not...it's on you. This is why you should NOT use personal phones for work. If you need a phone for work, your work needs to provide one with proper securities in place. That aside, it's not just google. So you use Bing? Or Yahoo? Have an e-mail account not from a domain you personally pay for? And you removed waze...but so you use paper maps going forwards now? No Amazon...great...so you don't do ANY online shopping? Or search for things online before buying them? Obviously, TRIBBLE of any sort is just out.
    Or Youtube. Or any video service really. Unless you live like somebody from 25 years ago, YOU HAVE NO PRIVACY. At least not on a level that windows 10 intrudes on it. You mention a few things you don't do...but I HIGHLY doubt you don't do all the things you actually have to do for more privacy than what windows 10 has access to.

    And if you can't deal with this minor level of privacy intrusion, you need to leave the US, EU, Australia or Canada if you live in those places because the intrusion into your MEDICAL histories that is coming will just utterly blow your mind. And when that happens, you won't be allowed to leave unless you comply. I'm sorry...but if you have that much of a hard on for privacy and are not planning to move out of those areas for someplace like a remote mountain in Tibet...you are all talk.

    As for why disallow windows 7...BECAUSE THE NET SECURITY FOR THAT OS IS SWISS CHEESE. Because SECURITY IS A THING. Because if they continue support for it, it means those of us who has moved on can't get proper security updates because it will break on windows 7. So...yeah no...that OS has been dead for YEARS now, it's WAY past time for them to have ditched support for it.

    "If you are using android 4.2 still and you connected to a wifi anywhere, you might as well have made a clone of all data on your phone and posted it on a public website." I don't. Not even to my house's wifi.

    " I sure as hope you are not using your whatsapp on that phone for anything to do with work if you work at anyplace that is of even minor note." I do not. It's for talking to 4 family members in another country. Hence the "necessary evil" part.

    "This is why you should NOT use personal phones for work." The only thing work-related I do with my phone is make/receive actual calls, calling in sick or something, or my manager asking if I can come into work to cover.

    "That aside, it's not just google. So you use Bing? Or Yahoo? Have an e-mail account not from a domain you personally pay for? " I use startpage, qwant, and/or duckduckgo, depending on which browser I'm using. for email, right now my primary ones are hosted by protonmail. I do not pay for their email, but I do pay for their VPN. Before them, I used other vpns (not before trying to guage their pros and cons via articles from sites that keep up with things like vpn, P2P, torrenting, etc.

    "No Amazon...great...so you don't do ANY online shopping? Or search for things online before buying them?" for the most part, no, I do little to no online shopping. When I do, I ask my sibling, who DOES laugh at me, but buys the item for me anyway :-p I do research items online before buying, through a VPN service, as mentioned above.

    Okay I had to cut out a lot because This is getting too long. But I'll reply to the last part.

    "As for why disallow windows 7...BECAUSE THE NET SECURITY FOR THAT OS IS SWISS CHEESE. Because SECURITY IS A THING. Because if they continue support for it, it means those of us who has moved on can't get proper security updates because it will break on windows 7. So...yeah no...that OS has been dead for YEARS now, it's WAY past time for them to have ditched support for it." I do not recall any patch notes that mention a security patch for operating systems, OR even the Direct3D environment. From what I remember, most of them detailed things being fixed within the game, irrespective of what OS players are using. So, again, As long as we can play the game with their requirement of Direct3D version 11, then they should not care what OS we use, as long as it supports Direct3d11, which windows 7, despite ALL of it's cons, fully supports! That's the bottom line no one seems to care about. For a bunch of opinionated posters (you, me, most of the posters here so far) that's fine, but for developers, and especially management of a company, in this case a gaming company, this should matter greatly. I mentioned before that I'm a lifetime sub and was made fun of for it by a fool. But between paying for subs for friends who could not afford it, and past occassional zen purchases (before I started getting annoyed with cryptic's/PW's gameing decisions) I have easily passed the $1000 mark in funds paid into this game. If STO could be properly taken care of, instead of being turned into a massive cash grab (like they sense the end and are trying for as much $$$ as they can get! idk.), who knows how much more I would have given. And I'm a Windows7 user, with an OS that, again, fully supports the graphics API STO's management wants to upgrade to And as proven from other posts on this topic thread, I'm not the only one. I have yet to hear/see any really valid reason why windows7 should be blocked, especially from the people that can actually answer this.
  • keepcalmchiveon
    keepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 4,015 Arc User
    dial up is still available too mate.

    all of your points withstanding, which were countered, you can either meet the requirements forthcoming or dont.
    meh

  • davefenestrator
    davefenestrator Member Posts: 9,790 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    dial up is still available too mate.

    all of your points withstanding, which were countered, you can either meet the requirements forthcoming or dont.

    Yep, when support is dropped it will be 2 years since Windows 7 reached end of life, and 6.5 years since the release of Windows 10. You can even upgrade to 10 for free if you google how to do it.

    I work in Windows desktop application development (not for Cryptic). It takes away resources better used for other features to keep supporting a dead OS. There are Windows APIs in 10 that don't exist in 7. It's extra work for to do any QA on 7. It's extra work for development, QA and support to deal with 7-specific problems that don't affect 10,

    It's too bad that a few people will stop playing instead of upgrading to 10 or 11, but dropping the unsafe and outdated OS is better for the majority of players.
  • pottsey5g
    pottsey5g Member Posts: 3,685 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    [“I find it interesting, how you and others pick which arguments you can argue against, but do not touch other concerns I've raised, in your defense of an operating system designed to take your data, and the data your system has stored on others. All over the net these concerns are raised. There are STILL articles being written by tech sites that all say, and I'm paraphrasing here, there is NO way to disable all of the telemetry and spying ability of windows 10,"
    If you are really concerned about data then you have to move away from Win7 ASAP. At this point you are far more likely by orders of magnitude more likely to lose sensitive data by using Windows 7 then Windows 10.

    At this point in time Windows 7 is more dangerous to use and is going to suffer from worse security far more then Windows 10.
    The data Windows 10 records is only minor stuff that no one really cares about as its harmless. While the data leaked out by the flaws in Windows 7 are far more major.

    Windows 7 is far more likely to have telemetry and spyware being forced upon it from external parties then windows 10.

    Its not about how much telemetry and spying ability there is, its about the type of telemetry and spying ability and that is where Windows 7 falls down. When telemetry and spying hit it's hits way worse in Win 7.

    Most window 7 computers it take a matter of seconds to bypass the main administrator password and gain full access to all data. That alone is reason enough to never use Windows 7 ever again.

    If you want to use Windows 7 that's fine but don't play the card that's is more secure and your data is safer as that is a complete fallacy.

    Its not even just about our security but the devs as well. Why should the devs open up a massive security flaw into there own network and risk all there sensitive data being stolen by using Windows 7? Better to get rid of all traces of Windows 7 and keep the network more secure.
  • nixie50
    nixie50 Member Posts: 986 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    if after all these pages you still don't know if your video card meets spec https://www.gpucheck.com/gpu-benchmark-graphics-card-comparison-chart

    Also, if you are running windows 8, 8.1 mainstream MS support ended back in '18. complete support ends in '23.
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    We Need BERETS in the tailor
  • phoenixc#0738
    phoenixc#0738 Member Posts: 4,214 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    It probably boils down to the devs don't want to spend the resources it takes to support Win7 and any improvements to the game will be easier if they stay away from the backwards-compatibility kludges (and those are messy from what I hear).

    It will be a moot point in a few years anyway since Microsoft will undoubtedly make sure their next DirectX version will be incompatible with Win7 (and the update will probably "mysteriously" break compatibility with even the stuff backported now), since they don't like the fact that Win7 is much easier bootleg and is not as "trusted" by them.

    That is what Microsoft does, force people into buying their latest OS and making sure that systems like DirectX are a moving target to hinder competitors by breaking compatibility at strategic times. And since MS dropped Win7 from their roster it is effectively a competitor of the ones that still are.

    I would not even use Windows at all if Microsoft wasn't pulling that underhanded anticompetitive nonsense, I would just stay on Linux and not have to boot up Windows to play games that depend on DirectX. But that is the sad reality for anyone wanting to anything but a bare handful of games online in Linux, and few already established games like STO are in a position to switch to Vulkan.
  • jcsww
    jcsww Member Posts: 6,555 Arc User
    It probably boils down to the devs don't want to spend the resources it takes to support Win7 and any improvements to the game will be easier if they stay away from the backwards-compatibility kludges (and those are messy from what I hear).

    It will be a moot point in a few years anyway since Microsoft will undoubtedly make sure their next DirectX version will be incompatible with Win7 (and the update will probably "mysteriously" break compatibility with even the stuff backported now), since they don't like the fact that Win7 is much easier bootleg and is not as "trusted" by them.

    That is what Microsoft does, force people into buying their latest OS and making sure that systems like DirectX are a moving target to hinder competitors by breaking compatibility at strategic times. And since MS dropped Win7 from their roster it is effectively a competitor of the ones that still are.

    I would not even use Windows at all if Microsoft wasn't pulling that underhanded anticompetitive nonsense, I would just stay on Linux and not have to boot up Windows to play games that depend on DirectX. But that is the sad reality for anyone wanting to anything but a bare handful of games online in Linux, and few already established games like STO are in a position to switch to Vulkan.

    Sounds a lot line Nintendo's retro game marketing strategy. Buy the same games on every system because nothing caries forwards from the old to the new.
  • syrupofsquill
    syrupofsquill Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    They did not say the reason why they are dropping windows 7 but with educated guess they really have no choice. If you google the internet you can see other games doing the same thing. It is likely they are updating their visual studio programming program from like 2006 or 2009 version to something like 2016 or 2019 version. The new programs give the same error that you see on the loader, Directx Hardware enhancements required when even trying to compile directx programs. If they wanted to keep support for windows 7 they would likely have to fork the game, keep an old os and old version of visual studio and re-code all new changes in the old studio, compile separate builds. With programming employees you expect the new studio version to be the industry standard or something. What really sucks about windows 10 is 2400+ known exploits and over 240 level 9 remote execution exploits(easy to hack) with all the stuff in it you cant disable like cortana or forced updates.
  • seaofsorrows
    seaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,894 Arc User
    They did not say the reason why they are dropping windows 7 but with educated guess they really have no choice. If you google the internet you can see other games doing the same thing. It is likely they are updating their visual studio programming program from like 2006 or 2009 version to something like 2016 or 2019 version. The new programs give the same error that you see on the loader, Directx Hardware enhancements required when even trying to compile directx programs. If they wanted to keep support for windows 7 they would likely have to fork the game, keep an old os and old version of visual studio and re-code all new changes in the old studio, compile separate builds. With programming employees you expect the new studio version to be the industry standard or something. What really sucks about windows 10 is 2400+ known exploits and over 240 level 9 remote execution exploits(easy to hack) with all the stuff in it you cant disable like cortana or forced updates.

    Windows 10 is far more secure then Windows 7, and Cortana and Forced updates absolutely can be disabled.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • syrupofsquill
    syrupofsquill Member Posts: 129 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    post removed
  • lordmalak1
    lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,673 Arc User
    vorwoda wrote: »
    captan2er0 wrote: »
    [SNIP]
    Windows 7 and earlier don't support the newer versions of DirectX.
    [/SNIP]

    Not true, at least as far as DX 11 goes. Windows 7 DOES support DX 11. I have a WIN7 machine nearby, with an NVidia GeForce 9600 GT card and it runs DX 11 just fine (I just ran dxdiag again to double check and make sure that my memory of its specs was right).

    Basically it looks to me like PW is forcing us to run the console port on win10's xbox emulator. Why else would they require a HARDWARE and OS upgrade to run a Windows XP game ? Since I have the drivespace to setup a W10 'dual boot' partition the only issue other that this is a GIANT PITA to run an ancient game is I have no desire (or money) to buy a GPU thats 'required' by ONE app on my system. I don't believe my N210 is compliant with the new specs and even a compliant card would be a waste of money since I run the graphics settings at the absolutely base minimums ingame.
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • lordmalak1
    lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,673 Arc User
    So I have to give up a more solid OS for a crappier OS, again, because the devs could not be bothered to idk, FIX the amount of problems the game already has, before adding a lot more problems?!?

    I still use windows 7, and everyone's fear mongering will not get me to change because up to now I have not had a single problem with security, or holes in the software, etc.

    I also checked my dxdiag. I'm currently running Directx 11, which Direct3D version 11 is a subset of.
    So, if the graphics is not a problem, then please explain to me why the short-sighted decision to force an operating system upgrade when, despite the fanbois here trying to defend it, the fact that people are raising concerns PROVES the playerbase still uses windows7.

    My security software DID flag STO's launcher for wanting to open Dxdiag to collect it's log. I denied the access, but I never raised concern here, even though I should have! I mean, WHY the hell are you TAKING information about my computer without being transparent and ASKING for it first (obviously with the option to decline such an invasion of security and privacy)?!?!?

    Your last forced Windows upgrade made it so I did not play STO for over a year and a half. You purposely made it so apple and linux OSes could no longer play STO. When I came back, I did not notice any graphical improvements (I compared screenshots from before and after the move to Windows 7), but I DID notice a heck of a lot of lagging, rubber-banding, and loss of connection when changing maps! There are many other issues and bugs/glitches (or as the playerbase now calls them: "new game features!") that deserve your time, but you will not fix any of it. THIS is your idea of improving?!?

    Now, despite Windows7 being fully capable of handling Direct3D11, you are forcing yet another useless, and baseless (at least until one of you devs/managers can explain this in more detail) upgrade. You will be adding MORE issues/bugs/"new game features" into an already ailing patchwork of programming!

    And WHY the lack of opengl?

    I insinuated this before, and you're actions have strengthened my previous insinuations: How much is Microsoft paying you to do this? How long have you all been in bed with them?

    I am no where near being a whale, but I AM a lifetime subscriber. And now you are cutting off my ability to play a game I paid for, and whatever delusions you all may have, 300 USD (200 on sale) is STILL a lot of money, especially now. BAD move STO devs/management.
    1) Stop being so greedy.
    2) Fix the game before trying to add more problems to it!

    *claps loudly

    Well said, sir.
    The last time they did this (XP-W7) I noted the same wonky behavior, in fact they even had a bug detecting my 'new' GPU compliance that blocked me from playing for over a month while a major event was going on, and robbing me of the 'prize' for the event.
    I suspected this new OS requirement was inbound years ago when they ported STO to console. They'll likely be unifying the teams since they don't need a PC dev team anymore. We're moving to the console version.
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • colonelmarik
    colonelmarik Member Posts: 1,903 Arc User
    I'll admit, this announcement really ticked me off... but then I started actually thinking about it.

    What am I losing? I barely "play" the game anymore. There's scant little left for me to do. I used to love exploring, but that was taken away. I used to love the Foundry, but that was taken away. Basically, all I do now is log in, play with the costumes of my crew (basically the only time I see them now that there's no exploration) and ship... maybe do some work on K13 (which I've been working on since it was introduced... looks like I'll never finish it after all)... then I log off. There's just nothing to keep my interest.

    It's just not Star Trek anymore. Between the countless player ships from other factions (including and especially enemy factions) and the excessive presence of content from Discovery, JJTrek and other inappropriate sources, it just doesn't look or feel like Star Trek anymore. None of what made Gene Roddenberry's vision of the future what it was is present here anymore... so what am I losing?

    Sure, I've put a lot of time into this game. I've put a lot of effort into creating my characters, writing lengthy bios for each one AND their crews. I put a lot of creativity into writing detailed Captain's Logs, describing my character's whole career. All that will be lost... but I never really look at any of that now. I'll log in and take a couple of screenshots... and that'll be it. There's nothing here for me anymore anyway, so let them take it away from me... I just don't care anymore.

    (And that's a damning indictment, because I'm a die hard Star Trek fan, and have been here since the DAY the game was announced. Ah, what could have been.)
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
  • aftulus
    aftulus Member Posts: 668 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    sk3y3 wrote: »
    This is heartbreaking news for me.

    I have a powerful rig with RTX GPU. It runs even the latest titles I've tried on Ultra with the exception of the occasional indie title with zero optimization. I have an installed library of several thousand game titles as well as a host of applications for various media production purposes. I certainly have well beyond the hardware requirements cited in this notice. My system is wonderfully stable and there isn't anything I personally need or use that I am limited from as a result of my OS choice.

    That choice has been to remain on Windows 7x64. It has the best compatibility for all my apps. It is easy to manage and far more controllable for me. It is not a system built from the ground up to gather surveillance on the user so it technically easier to manage security for a technically capable person.

    Windows 10 is inherently a security risk despite "support" because the security vulnerabilities are built into the foundation of it. Even if you implicitly and inexplicably "trust" Microsoft with that level of intrusion into your every keypress you must be aware that including these vulnerabilities in the foundation of a technology makes them exploitable by "hackers" and anyone else eventually and potentially. It is just bad tech to put back doors and surveillance ("telemetry") into things.

    Now you can't speak about that reason for avoiding Windows 10 without people coming out of the woodwork to call you names or depict you as being mentally deficient, or saying "there's no reason", or "it's old", etc. There is very little in the way of even low budget software that doesn't include support of Windows 7.

    Aside from the "security" aspect of W10 there is also the compatibility aspect. I'm not going to run an entirely new or separate computer just for one app, in this case STO.

    I am disappointed because I just spent a bunch of money on STO out of love for it and the devs who have been doing such a good job (in my opinion) with it and I wanted to support it and see it continue. Then after a few days I wake to find I am about to be cut off unless I submit to installing something that would upend my entire workstation platform.

    I am glad that I saw the notice before I spent a whole bunch more cash, which I was about to do over some of the new irresistible sales, but I can't do that for something I will soon be cut off from accessing.

    I have spent way too much time over the last year in STO and I really love it. Very sad to be shut out this way!

    Try a separate HD and install fedora linux. I use proton. There are some problems. But they are minor. Mostly sound issues by the sounds of it. Proton has gotten rid of like 99% of the problems and I'm assuming the reducing of potential spahgetti code may help after the update. And if it does stop working it will probably be up fairly shortly. worst case scenario a month. But It may not crash with protons recent track record.

    I'm not sure how amd video cards hold up. There used to be driver problems. I'm not sure how that is now. I know nvidia has been the go to on linux for video cards(because of driver issues.) and now has gui installed drivers that auto update and make them mindless to use. Unless there are issues with bleeding edge gpus. I use a 1060 3gb so I'm not up to date.
    Post edited by aftulus on
  • aelfwin1
    aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,891 Arc User
    Windows 10 is far more secure then Windows 7, and Cortana and Forced updates absolutely can be disabled.

    Care to offer a 'how to' guide ?

  • aelfwin1
    aelfwin1 Member Posts: 2,891 Arc User
    I'll admit, this announcement really ticked me off... but then I started actually thinking about it.

    What am I losing? I barely "play" the game anymore.

    Yeah , same here .
    I log in and mostly click buttons on 7 toons for Admiralty & Doff missions 4 teh Dill .
    That's what "Star Trek" has been reduced to for me in this game .
    Then maybe a couple of STF's if I have time , and log off .

    Long gone are the days of longer STF raids (the original BORG STF's) , or getting lost in a Foundry mission on Elite difficulty , to keep the unpredictability going just a little longer .
    Hell , in 2017 I learned to settle for the Dranuur colony 20 man mission, just to spend some time with other ppl doing ... something together that does not involve DPS .

    (And that's a damning indictment, because I'm a die hard Star Trek fan, and have been here since the DAY the game was announced. Ah, what could have been.)

    What could have been indeed ... :)
    Here's to glorious beginnings !!


  • seaofsorrows
    seaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,894 Arc User
    edited December 2021
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    Windows 10 is far more secure then Windows 7, and Cortana and Forced updates absolutely can be disabled.

    Care to offer a 'how to' guide ?

    No need for a guide, just use the tool I linked earlier in the thread - Shutup Windows 10.

    This is just a lightweight tool that puts all of Windows 10's settings in one place, you can turn off all ad tracking with a few clicks and it has options to disable updates as well as Cortana and One Drive. Freeware that takes minutes to install and configure and you're all set.

    Enjoy.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • lordmalak1
    lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,673 Arc User
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    Windows 10 is far more secure then Windows 7, and Cortana and Forced updates absolutely can be disabled.

    Care to offer a 'how to' guide ?

    No need for a guide, just use the tool I linked earlier in the thread - Shutup Windows 10.

    This is just a lightweight tool that puts all of Windows 10's settings in one place, you can turn off all ad tracking with a few clicks and it has options to disable updates as well as Cortana and One Drive. Freeware that takes minutes to install and configure and you're all set.

    Enjoy.

    Ewwww, you let a freeware tool mess around in your registry because you were too cheap and bought the home version of windows that didn't come with the MS tool to mess up your registry ?

    You're a brave soul.
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • colonelmarik
    colonelmarik Member Posts: 1,903 Arc User
    aelfwin1 wrote: »
    I'll admit, this announcement really ticked me off... but then I started actually thinking about it.

    What am I losing? I barely "play" the game anymore.

    Yeah , same here .
    I log in and mostly click buttons on 7 toons for Admiralty & Doff missions 4 teh Dill .
    That's what "Star Trek" has been reduced to for me in this game .
    Then maybe a couple of STF's if I have time , and log off .

    Long gone are the days of longer STF raids (the original BORG STF's) , or getting lost in a Foundry mission on Elite difficulty , to keep the unpredictability going just a little longer .
    Hell , in 2017 I learned to settle for the Dranuur colony 20 man mission, just to spend some time with other ppl doing ... something together that does not involve DPS .

    (And that's a damning indictment, because I'm a die hard Star Trek fan, and have been here since the DAY the game was announced. Ah, what could have been.)

    What could have been indeed ... :)
    Here's to glorious beginnings !!


    LOVE the video from the Big Yin.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
  • raistlin75#1768
    raistlin75#1768 Member Posts: 3 Arc User
    How can I check if my graphics card is compatible? I have an AMD Radeon R7 200.
  • phoenixc#0738
    phoenixc#0738 Member Posts: 4,214 Arc User
    How can I check if my graphics card is compatible? I have an AMD Radeon R7 200.

    As long as your graphics card is less than a decade old and supports Direct3D 11 or higher it will work as long as you are using at least Win8 as your OS. It looks like yours supports D3D 11 and 12 so you should be good (if the Wikipedia page on the AMD cards is right).
  • strathkin
    strathkin Member Posts: 2,655 Bug Hunter
    westmetals wrote: »
    in re: the video cards... how do we know what is considered "or better" in regards to the specific video cards quoted?

    i.e. I have a GTX 1050, but I don't know if that is considered "better than" a 400....

    And I can't check the manual as I bought this in June 2018 and no longer have the manual.

    Often with NVidia, the higher the #### the better the Card.
    0zxlclk.png
  • lordmalak1
    lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,673 Arc User
    What a freekin joke- I setup W10 in another partition, link the launcher to the STO folder in the W7 partition and I solve the W10 nanny message but still get the "you wont be able to play after 2-15 because your GPU is TRIBBLE" message. I then remove the drivers and W10 installs it own generic video driver and STO launches without ANY nanny messages, but runs like a slideshow.

    So no driver makes the launcher happy but the latest driver makes my PC banned next week.
    ...Well at least 'slideshow' mode allows me to do admiralty missions and R&D. :P
    So whose got the wine setup instructions ?
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
  • phoenixc#0738
    phoenixc#0738 Member Posts: 4,214 Arc User
    edited February 12
    lordmalak1 wrote: »
    What a freekin joke- I setup W10 in another partition, link the launcher to the STO folder in the W7 partition and I solve the W10 nanny message but still get the "you wont be able to play after 2-15 because your GPU is TRIBBLE" message. I then remove the drivers and W10 installs it own generic video driver and STO launches without ANY nanny messages, but runs like a slideshow.

    So no driver makes the launcher happy but the latest driver makes my PC banned next week.
    ...Well at least 'slideshow' mode allows me to do admiralty missions and R&D. :P
    So whose got the wine setup instructions ?

    If you have enough room to install a version of the game via Win10 using the proper Win10 driver from your videocard manufacturer (not the generic Win10 driver) it would probably work better unless you have a card from around 2010. STO seems to be one of those programs that don't handle changing operating systems without reinstalling the program from scratch on them very well.
  • greatgoogly347
    greatgoogly347 Member Posts: 2 Arc User
    My laptop barely makes it AND I will not buy a new laptop cause a game wants to change all the compatability.
    LAPTOPS ARE EXPENSIVE - money doesnt grow on trees! You is gonna loose lots of players with older equipment.

    Exactly!
    are they going to start giving out free hardware & software?

    Icant even get to the launch page, it just keeps spinning and spinning and doesnt load up. My computer is more than enough to handle any of these updates lately. Any fixes?
This discussion has been closed.