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32nd Century Earth leaves the Federation . . . Wait, what????

According to the lore of the United Earth Defense Force Vessel, Earth in the 32nd century left the Federation.

How does that make any sense at all? In Star Trek, the Federation is headquartered on Earth from day one. What is going on here?

If this has anything to do with Discovery, I've only seen the first season. I'm not terribly impressed by Discovery, so I don't mind spoilers if necessary.
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  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,626 Arc User
    devencombs wrote: »
    According to the lore of the United Earth Defense Force Vessel, Earth in the 32nd century left the Federation.

    How does that make any sense at all? In Star Trek, the Federation is headquartered on Earth from day one. What is going on here?

    If this has anything to do with Discovery, I've only seen the first season. I'm not terribly impressed by Discovery, so I don't mind spoilers if necessary.

    It doesn't, but that's Discovery in a nutshell, it doesn't make any sense and rarely if ever fits canon at all. Discovery traveled to the 32nd century where a event called "the burn" cause much of the active dilithium to explode (it was caused by a kid throwing a tantrum in a nebula on a planet that had dilithium on it, extremely nonsensical compared to even fan theories.)

    So warp travel was scarce and apparently even though in lore there is a abundance of methods of ftl travel beyond your typical matter/antimatter warp core, in typical fashion they ignored it all and just said that in almost a thousand years no one was able to design a new type of ftl drive beyond standard warp. They outlawed time travel so they can be rid of that drive because they couldn't think of a better way to make their story fit

    So we're in the 32nd century and Earth is by themselves...of course gotta make them humans racist because what would Discovery be if it wasn't the 21st century in space (nothing)?
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  • devencombsdevencombs Member Posts: 204 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    devencombs wrote: »
    According to the lore of the United Earth Defense Force Vessel, Earth in the 32nd century left the Federation.

    How does that make any sense at all? In Star Trek, the Federation is headquartered on Earth from day one. What is going on here?

    If this has anything to do with Discovery, I've only seen the first season. I'm not terribly impressed by Discovery, so I don't mind spoilers if necessary.

    It doesn't, but that's Discovery in a nutshell, it doesn't make any sense and rarely if ever fits canon at all. Discovery traveled to the 32nd century where a event called "the burn" cause much of the active dilithium to explode (it was caused by a kid throwing a tantrum in a nebula on a planet that had dilithium on it, extremely nonsensical compared to even fan theories.)

    So warp travel was scarce and apparently even though in lore there is a abundance of methods of ftl travel beyond your typical matter/antimatter warp core, in typical fashion they ignored it all and just said that in almost a thousand years no one was able to design a new type of ftl drive beyond standard warp. They outlawed time travel so they can be rid of that drive because they couldn't think of a better way to make their story fit

    So we're in the 32nd century and Earth is by themselves...of course gotta make them humans racist because what would Discovery be if it wasn't the 21st century in space (nothing)?

    Okay, yeah. Discovery doesn't make any sense.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,626 Arc User
    devencombs wrote: »
    lianthelia wrote: »
    devencombs wrote: »
    According to the lore of the United Earth Defense Force Vessel, Earth in the 32nd century left the Federation.

    How does that make any sense at all? In Star Trek, the Federation is headquartered on Earth from day one. What is going on here?

    If this has anything to do with Discovery, I've only seen the first season. I'm not terribly impressed by Discovery, so I don't mind spoilers if necessary.

    It doesn't, but that's Discovery in a nutshell, it doesn't make any sense and rarely if ever fits canon at all. Discovery traveled to the 32nd century where a event called "the burn" cause much of the active dilithium to explode (it was caused by a kid throwing a tantrum in a nebula on a planet that had dilithium on it, extremely nonsensical compared to even fan theories.)

    So warp travel was scarce and apparently even though in lore there is a abundance of methods of ftl travel beyond your typical matter/antimatter warp core, in typical fashion they ignored it all and just said that in almost a thousand years no one was able to design a new type of ftl drive beyond standard warp. They outlawed time travel so they can be rid of that drive because they couldn't think of a better way to make their story fit

    So we're in the 32nd century and Earth is by themselves...of course gotta make them humans racist because what would Discovery be if it wasn't the 21st century in space (nothing)?

    Okay, yeah. Discovery doesn't make any sense.

    Just think of it as poorly written 21st century in space, because that is all it is. Kurtzman and the other writers have the subtlety of a sledgehammer...when Star Trek warned of the dangers of capitalism they came up with the Ferengi, when NuTrek tries to preach that capitalism is bad (which is ironic because it's one of the most expensive shows on tv since the show costs 8 mill a episode) they literally call it capitalism, and the leader spreading capitalism is a Orion, green like the collar of american money.
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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,349 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    And now for the explaination that ISN'T yet another excuse to badmouth Discovery.

    So, in a nutshell, at some point in 3069 the event known as 'The Burn' occurs. It causes Dilithium to become inert. Millions die when countless Starships lose antimatter containment, causing warp core breaches. The Federation has no idea what happened, nor why it happened, and is unable to promise that it won't happen again. The lack of Dilithium results in the Federation becoming a far less visible presence and, over time, beleivers in what the Federation stood for become rare.

    Earth became self-sustaining and left the federation as they didn't believe what was left of the Federation/Starfleet could protect them and their supplies of Dilithium and other resources. Although it's clear that some element of Starfleet remained there as, as late as 3177, Admiral Senna Tal continued sending messages to anyone who might still believe in Starfleet/the Federation to come to Earth.

  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,414 Arc User
    > @reyan01 said:
    > And now for the explaination that ISN'T yet another excuse to badmouth Discovery.
    >
    > So, in a nutshell, at some point in 3069 the event known as 'The Burn' occurs. It causes Dilithium to become inert. Millions die when countless Starships lose antimatter containment, causing warp core breaches. The Federation has no idea what happened, nor why it happened, and is unable to promise that it won't happen again. The lack of Dilithium results in the Federation becoming a far less visible presence and, over time, beleivers in what the Federation stood for become rare.
    >
    > Earth became self-sustaining and left the federation as they didn't believe what was left of the Federation/Starfleet could protect them and their supplies of Dilithium and other resources. Although it's clear that some element of Starfleet remained there as, as late as 3177, Admiral Senna Tal continued sending messages to anyone who might still believe in Starfleet/the Federation to come to Earth.

    Also Earth isn't the only Founding member to have left the UFP, Vulcan and Andoria have left as well and with Tellar it's a "maybe" as IIRC they weren't mentioned, I suspect powers that could survive on their own left UFP while those who stayed were ones with no other choice.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    Honestly I was more surprised that the Vulcans left the Federation, it was their brain child and they just up and left like a father going out for a pack of cigarettes.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,349 Arc User
    Honestly I was more surprised that the Vulcans left the Federation, it was their brain child and they just up and left like a father going out for a pack of cigarettes.

    No they didn't. They left because they developed a highly experimental warp drive named 'SB-19' that didn't rely on Dilithium. However, the Ni'Var didn't feel it was safe and asked for the experiment to shut down. The Federation denied the request as they felt that, regardless of the Ni'Var saying it was dangerous, it was the most promising alternative of any attempted by that point. The Ni'Var thought that SB-19 caused the burn and therefore withdrew from the Federation.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,538 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    devencombs wrote: »
    According to the lore of the United Earth Defense Force Vessel, Earth in the 32nd century left the Federation.

    How does that make any sense at all?

    Basically after the burn decimated every warp capable civilization Earth decided it was safer on it's own. No one knew what the cause of the Burn was, and one theory was that it could have been a targeted attack on the Federation. Many other planets left the Federation as well, including Vulcan (now called Ni'Var after the Romulans joined the Vulcans there, unlike Earth they left because they thought they had caused the Burn), and Starfleet headquarters was hidden on a space station somewhere in deep space, with a large cloaking field concealing it's location and the area around it.
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  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,508 Arc User
    i dont see how a child tossing a bed temper around could destroy "ALL" the active dil in the universe. considering how vast the universe is, it maybe....maaaaaaybe, would have gotten one sector of space...sector, not a quadrant, not ALL active dil...
    it was a badly written concept, much akin to all this time travel/repair the timeline BS going on now.
    meh

  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,349 Arc User
    i dont see how a child tossing a bed temper around could destroy "ALL" the active dil in the universe. considering how vast the universe is, it maybe....maaaaaaybe, would have gotten one sector of space...sector, not a quadrant, not ALL active dil...
    it was a badly written concept, much akin to all this time travel/repair the timeline BS going on now.

    It was stated to have been a "subspace shockwave".
  • devencombsdevencombs Member Posts: 204 Arc User
    And I thought The Last Jedi was bad. SMH.
  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    i dont see how a child tossing a bed temper around could destroy "ALL" the active dil in the universe. considering how vast the universe is, it maybe....maaaaaaybe, would have gotten one sector of space...sector, not a quadrant, not ALL active dil...
    it was a badly written concept, much akin to all this time travel/repair the timeline BS going on now.

    Welp, just to add to ill concept of that narration...it was stated, that quick ease of that event occurred through subspace. There is a reflection factor with Dil crystals, that there is a duplicate that functions in that realm. So, when that was affected...it went across the spectrum, no matter the Dil crystals resided on the physical side.

    And yes, still the lamest of supposedly scifi trash ever conceived.

    Post edited by truewarper on
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  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 3,508 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    i dont see how a child tossing a bed temper around could destroy "ALL" the active dil in the universe. considering how vast the universe is, it maybe....maaaaaaybe, would have gotten one sector of space...sector, not a quadrant, not ALL active dil...
    it was a badly written concept, much akin to all this time travel/repair the timeline BS going on now.

    It was stated to have been a "subspace shockwave".

    ill be honest, call it what you want, they can call it what they want, but i dont see it as being able to do as much as it did, across quadrants, vs a sector of space. everything loses velocity as some point. (with current known science in place of course)

    my biggest gripe really is the expanse at which it covered, and that they couldnt come up with a better background for the reason.
    meh

  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,847 Arc User
    If that were true, the expansion of the universe would be slowing down, not accelerating.​​
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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,349 Arc User
    truewarper wrote: »
    i dont see how a child tossing a bed temper around could destroy "ALL" the active dil in the universe. considering how vast the universe is, it maybe....maaaaaaybe, would have gotten one sector of space...sector, not a quadrant, not ALL active dil...
    it was a badly written concept, much akin to all this time travel/repair the timeline BS going on now.

    Welp, just to add to ill concept of that narration...it was stated, that quick ease of that event occurred through subspace. There is a reflection factor with Dil crystals, that there is a duplicate that functions in that realm. So, when that was affected...it went across the spectrum, no matter the Dil crystals resided on the physical side.

    And yes, still the lamest of supposedly scifi trash ever conceived.

    That's not even remotely true unless you are completely unaware of the likes of 'Battlefield Earth' to cite but one example.
  • husanakxhusanakx Member Posts: 987 Arc User
    Discovery is one of the worst written TV shows to ever get more then a couple episodes. Why it is still going is beyond logic.
    When you see things from Disco come to the game... just ignore the lore stuff, Cryptic could have written better themselves. (which is a backhanded compliment yes)
    Ignore the lore description, make up your own if its something you want... ignore it if its not. Cryptic is just fulfilling their contractual obligations adding that TRIBBLE to the game. At least that is the feeling I get when you look at the specs... trait and console. It won't even sell to people that don't care about the terrible non star trek story attached to it. (I'm so glad Cryptic didn't add some super trait or console that would sell this thing regardless. THANK you Cryptic and I mean that with all my heart, thank you for not creating some compelling reason to buy this horrible non trek thing)
  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    i dont see how a child tossing a bed temper around could destroy "ALL" the active dil in the universe. considering how vast the universe is, it maybe....maaaaaaybe, would have gotten one sector of space...sector, not a quadrant, not ALL active dil...
    it was a badly written concept, much akin to all this time travel/repair the timeline BS going on now.

    It was stated to have been a "subspace shockwave".

    ill be honest, call it what you want, they can call it what they want, but i dont see it as being able to do as much as it did, across quadrants, vs a sector of space. everything loses velocity as some point. (with current known science in place of course)

    my biggest gripe really is the expanse at which it covered, and that they couldnt come up with a better background for the reason.

    Believe it or not...this was the same stunt pulled, with the 1st Kelvin timeline film. The first narration dropped was that the Romulus Sun blew so big, it stretched across the Alpha & Beta Quadrants, wiping out current civilizations of space traveling and non from existence.

    That was immediate recanted, and isolated to the Sun star system only.

    Now, they get to do what they wanted to do in the first place. But in the Future time. As it didn't make sense back then *they wanted to clean slate the previous history and make their own and CBS said no go*

    Begin in the future, is supposed to be far ahead for them to do whatever they want, and it won't have an impact to past canon as they originally wanted to do back then.

    Having one person do that much damage, is simply impratical for the logical mind to accept.

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  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 15,349 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    Discovery is one of the worst written TV shows to ever get more then a couple episodes. Why it is still going is beyond logic.

    No it isn't. The fact that a bunch of vocal Trekkies/Trekkers voice negative opinion about the series on Social Media doesn't reflect the overall popularity of the series any more than the vocal minority here, in STO, reflects on the decisions the Devs make about the game.

    Like it or not the FACT is that, internet opinions aside, its popular enough that it is making money and so long as that is the case they'll continue making it.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,145 Arc User
    truewarper wrote: »
    And yes, still the lamest of supposedly scifi trash ever conceived.

    The Last Jedi, Rise of Skywalker and Chibnall's Doctor Who would like a word with you over which is the lamest piece of Sci-fi trash.
  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    truewarper wrote: »
    And yes, still the lamest of supposedly scifi trash ever conceived.

    The Last Jedi, Rise of Skywalker and Chibnall's Doctor Who would like a word with you over which is the lamest piece of Sci-fi trash.
    :p:p

    *Adds Batwoman quietly*
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  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    reyan01 wrote: »
    husanakx wrote: »
    Discovery is one of the worst written TV shows to ever get more then a couple episodes. Why it is still going is beyond logic.

    No it isn't. The fact that a bunch of vocal Trekkies/Trekkers voice negative opinion about the series on Social Media doesn't reflect the overall popularity of the series any more than the vocal minority here, in STO, reflects on the decisions the Devs make about the game.

    Like it or not the FACT is that, internet opinions aside, its popular enough that it is making money and so long as that is the case they'll continue making it.

    Oh yeah, they are making money, through the license fees, not through merch or ad revenue. And please recall that they did put the 1st season *three years later of course* of Disco on the telly. And it rated poorly for the entire run, this is why they don't put the official ratings for the show from streaming (although there have been a few areas that release some info, but it is not a continuous flow).

    If it was 'popular' enough...it should have millions of watchers. We don't hear anything about that.

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  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    It's Disco-nonsense. Pay no heed.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,960 Arc User
    Something with fisheries, more money for the NHS...

    and because they were tired of immigrants from France. Basically, they didn't share Jean-Luc's ideals. ;)

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  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,268 Arc User
    truewarper wrote: »
    reyan01 wrote: »
    husanakx wrote: »
    Discovery is one of the worst written TV shows to ever get more then a couple episodes. Why it is still going is beyond logic.

    No it isn't. The fact that a bunch of vocal Trekkies/Trekkers voice negative opinion about the series on Social Media doesn't reflect the overall popularity of the series any more than the vocal minority here, in STO, reflects on the decisions the Devs make about the game.

    Like it or not the FACT is that, internet opinions aside, its popular enough that it is making money and so long as that is the case they'll continue making it.

    Oh yeah, they are making money, through the license fees, not through merch or ad revenue. And please recall that they did put the 1st season *three years later of course* of Disco on the telly. And it rated poorly for the entire run, this is why they don't put the official ratings for the show from streaming (although there have been a few areas that release some info, but it is not a continuous flow).

    If it was 'popular' enough...it should have millions of watchers. We don't hear anything about that.

    If I recall right, the reasons WHY they put the first season on in the first place was that they needed something to fill in the time slot (as everything was delayed because of Covid) & also as a promotion for Season 3. They also aired the first season of the Good Fight (the sequel series to The Good Wife).

    Canada is the only other place that Star Trek: Discovery (and other current Trek series) actually airs on TV in addition to streaming.

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  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 2,960 Arc User
    In all seriousness, I strongly dislike these story elements as well.

    Too often it seems the writers of more recent trek movies and series let all sorts of extreme things happen just to leave their mark on the franchise. Which could be done through crafting new, interesting stories and more promises of progress - but apparently it's easier to just destroy everything.


    Whether it's Vulcan and Romulus in 2009, the entire Federation in the 32nd century or Utopia Planitia. The same applies to killing off well-known characters, because that's easier than creatingnew, interesting ones or actually using and expanding on the legacies of existing ones.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,800 Community Moderator
    We've seen a lot of weird things happen in Trek. I mean we had a guy on TNG who was able to augment the Enterprise-D's warp drive by his own will pretty much (Traveler), as well as entering a realm where thought could be made material.

    We had an encounter with TWO DIMENSIONAL beings!

    We saw the devastation of Praxis, which sent out a shockwave a LOT farther than just in system as it hit the USS Excelsior on the FEDERATION side of the Neutral Zone.

    We met non-corporial beings who exist outside of linear time.

    We saw a frickin' Telepathic Pitcher Plant that preys on starships for crying out loud!

    The idea of a psychological breakdown resonating with dilithium and spreading across the galaxy... how is that any weirder than... oh I don't know... "What does God need with a starship"?

    What do we know about The Burn?
    • A Kelpien ship crashed on a rather unusual planet with an unusually extremely HIGH Dilithium composition.
    • An unborn child was exposed to the sheer amount of Dilithium, creating a symbiotic bond.
    • Said symbiotic bond resonated with the child's emotions.
    • Emotional Trauma ultimately manifested through this bond as an event later known as The Burn.

    Based on all the weird stuff we've seen in the past... how is this any different?
    Not only that... it just shows that despite being pretty much a staple of FTL travel in at least one galaxy... there are still things about Dilithium that we don't know.

    How do you explore new things without new mysteries or challenges?
    Season 3 of Discovery is no less Trek than anything else. We've got one starship out of time arriving in a galaxy that's basically lost hope. Said ship proceeds to piece together one of the greatest mysteries of that time period when pretty much everyone else has given up.
    And isn't hope one of the narratives people lift up as an element of Star Trek? They literally slapped the galaxy in the face and reminded everyone what Starfleet and the Federation used to be. What it could be again.

    Anyways... that's my take on things.
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 36,847 Arc User
    It wasn't the dilithium by itself that created the bond - it was the dilithium in combination with the lethal levels of radiation being exuded by the nearby neutron star.

    And on a tangential note...I want to know where exactly the Verubin Nebula is in the galaxy - as, I suspect, do the current developers for the Star Trek: New Horizons/Civilizations mods. Those mod's timeline may only operate from the 22nd-early 25th centuries, but that doesn't mean a dilithium nursery can't be added anyway...it was probably there for millennia.​​
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  • jonsillsjonsills Member Posts: 9,597 Arc User
    husanakx wrote: »
    Discovery is one of the worst written TV shows to ever get more then a couple episodes.
    Oh, bless your heart, you sweet summer child.

    Now go watch the original Battlestar Galactica - the one with everyone named after legendary Terran myth-figures, wearing Egytian-Empire-themed helmets while flying spaceships, that didn't even know the difference between a star system and a galaxy, and had no idea what "FTL" might even mean or require...
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  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 7,715 Arc User
    jonsills wrote: »
    husanakx wrote: »
    Discovery is one of the worst written TV shows to ever get more then a couple episodes.
    Oh, bless your heart, you sweet summer child.

    Now go watch the original Battlestar Galactica - the one with everyone named after legendary Terran myth-figures, wearing Egytian-Empire-themed helmets while flying spaceships, that didn't even know the difference between a star system and a galaxy, and had no idea what "FTL" might even mean or require...

    While i will gladly admit that the visuals/effect and story are a lot better in the remake i like the atmosphere of the original BSC
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,952 Arc User
    Space in Star Trek is even more dangerous than it is in reality. You have subspace anomalies, crystalline entities, god-like beings that can basically snap a finger and eradicate your species in a fit of rage, non-linear-time wormhole aliens that can remove fleets, and we have warp drives causing subspace damage that could damage spacetime forever
    .
    The Burn is just another one of those dangers. It is a bit like, say, an asteroid crashing on Earth, a massive solar flare frying all electronics, or the Mutant 59 plastic eater sci-fi story (where some bacteria starts eating plastic at a rapid rate, so that it causes our civilization to a crashing halt as plastic rots away rapidly) - except this is on a galaxy-wide level, not a planet-wide level.
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