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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    CBS seems to have been inconsistent in their dealings with STO. For early DSC they let the devs in further, showed them stuff in advance and let them in on plot developments ahead of time, but for Lower Decks they had to wait and watch the shows like everyone else for the "special ability" CBS hinted the Cerritos has. Mostly they seem to just pass along copies of the digital models sometime in the season they appear in now.
  • fazemladaiyafazemladaiya Member Posts: 166 Arc User
    I've always felt it was stupid to just respawn right back in the battle. All that does is promote zerging... Keep going at iit until you win. There needs to be the possibility of losing and consequences. THAT would have been the combat overhaul I would have made. And look... It would have given ship interiors a purpose tied to gameplay....

    I could not agree more.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,971 Community Moderator
    The problem is the game, as far as I am aware, does not support this split instance type of thing, where you're still in, say an Infected run, and can pop into your ship to repair damage while the same battle is raging around you. Every map is its own instance. And not every bridge has the lower decks to go to for repairs. AND if we add in the canon interiors, not all the decks line up with each other. So if you had to go to Engineering, that's a different deck on the Belfast interior vs the Intrepid interior vs the Galaxy interior...
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The problem is the game, as far as I am aware, does not support this split instance type of thing, where you're still in, say an Infected run, and can pop into your ship to repair damage while the same battle is raging around you. Every map is its own instance. And not every bridge has the lower decks to go to for repairs. AND if we add in the canon interiors, not all the decks line up with each other. So if you had to go to Engineering, that's a different deck on the Belfast interior vs the Intrepid interior vs the Galaxy interior...

    True, in one of the livestreams the devs said that when you go into the interior of your ship that the ship leaves whatever space it was in and goes back when you come out of it. Not only would it remove you from the TFO or whatever, there is a high chance of the map switch bug dumping you out to the login screen (and that same bug is why they cannot do TFOs with both space and ground segments).
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,971 Community Moderator
    Huh... wasn't aware of a map switch bug like that. I thought they weren't doing TFOs with both because when they did at launch with the original Borg TFOs, they took too long.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,971 Community Moderator
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Huh... wasn't aware of a map switch bug like that. I thought they weren't doing TFOs with both because when they did at launch with the original Borg TFOs, they took too long.

    See... If they had more people working with the code, the likelihood of eliminating bugs like this would go up, and then maybe all sorts of clever things could be done with transition events...

    I imagine it is just as frustrating for Cryptic as it is for us.

    It wasn't a bug. The whole combined TFO back then could take an hour or two at LEAST from what I heard. That is why they split them into separate space and ground queues. So that players didn't have to dedicate so much time to one thing. And also take into consideration back then the top level was 50, and we didn't have all the power creep we do now that can nuke an Infected space in minutes, and have so many good anti-borg weapons on the ground.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 4,100 Arc User
    .
    CBS seems to have been inconsistent in their dealings with STO. For early DSC they let the devs in further, showed them stuff in advance and let them in on plot developments ahead of time, but for Lower Decks they had to wait and watch the shows like everyone else for the "special ability" CBS hinted the Cerritos has. Mostly they seem to just pass along copies of the digital models sometime in the season they appear in now.

    They got access to some early stuff but not all - even WRT Discovery content they waited until they saw the final episode of S2 to see if the 'Disco-Prise' did anything; and AFTER that episode 'aired'/streamed; they finished and released that ship based on what they saw there. So yeah, Cryptic may get a bit more broad stroke info than your average fan on the street, but no, CBS isn't giving then a lot of 'fore knowledge' from the production teams as those teams work on the shows (and I understand why because until an episode is finally and fully edited and approved for air; ANYTHING can change.)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Huh... wasn't aware of a map switch bug like that. I thought they weren't doing TFOs with both because when they did at launch with the original Borg TFOs, they took too long.

    See... If they had more people working with the code, the likelihood of eliminating bugs like this would go up, and then maybe all sorts of clever things could be done with transition events...

    I imagine it is just as frustrating for Cryptic as it is for us.

    It wasn't a bug. The whole combined TFO back then could take an hour or two at LEAST from what I heard. That is why they split them into separate space and ground queues. So that players didn't have to dedicate so much time to one thing. And also take into consideration back then the top level was 50, and we didn't have all the power creep we do now that can nuke an Infected space in minutes, and have so many good anti-borg weapons on the ground.

    It seems to be both according to a question someone asked about combined space/ground TFOs in a livestream I saw a little while ago (I don't remember what the livestream's main topic was or I would go back and take another look to be sure). The devs did indeed bring up the time factor (the longer TFOs are rarely popular, the most popular are short and frenetic), and the system guy they had on that one added that with the trouble a lot of people have with map changes dumping them to the sign-on screen they are not practical in TFOs
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,950 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Huh... wasn't aware of a map switch bug like that. I thought they weren't doing TFOs with both because when they did at launch with the original Borg TFOs, they took too long.

    See... If they had more people working with the code, the likelihood of eliminating bugs like this would go up, and then maybe all sorts of clever things could be done with transition events...

    I imagine it is just as frustrating for Cryptic as it is for us.

    It wasn't a bug. The whole combined TFO back then could take an hour or two at LEAST from what I heard. That is why they split them into separate space and ground queues. So that players didn't have to dedicate so much time to one thing. And also take into consideration back then the top level was 50, and we didn't have all the power creep we do now that can nuke an Infected space in minutes, and have so many good anti-borg weapons on the ground.

    It seems to be both according to a question someone asked about combined space/ground TFOs in a livestream I saw a little while ago (I don't remember what the livestream's main topic was or I would go back and take another look to be sure). The devs did indeed bring up the time factor (the longer TFOs are rarely popular, the most popular are short and frenetic), and the system guy they had on that one added that with the trouble a lot of people have with map changes dumping them to the sign-on screen they are not practical in TFOs

    I guess there could be certain aspects of combined ground/space TFO's possibly not being as popular with some players but am not getting what the system guy said. There's a map change each time a player enters a TFO so not sure how one more map change during a TFO would be any different. Also missions have multiple map changes as they involve both ground and space.

    I wouldn't mind if they brought some combined TFO's back. It would be a refreshing change from some of the content they have now and as pointed out by Rattler a lot of things can be completed a lot faster now than back in the day. I could see a combined map that used to take an hour being completed in half that time or less.

    This could make for a very entertaining experience with less filler type (timer based) mechanics.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,971 Community Moderator
    protoneous wrote: »
    I guess there could be certain aspects of combined ground/space TFO's possibly not being as popular with some players but am not getting what the system guy said. There's a map change each time a player enters a TFO so not sure how one more map change during a TFO would be any different. Also missions have multiple map changes as they involve both ground and space.

    I wouldn't mind if they brought some combined TFO's back. It would be a refreshing change from some of the content they have now and as pointed out by Rattler a lot of things can be completed a lot faster now than back in the day. I could see a combined map that used to take an hour being completed in half that time or less.

    This could make for a very entertaining experience with less filler type (timer based) mechanics.

    Well... most missions are run by a single player, while TFOs are at least 5 man. That's more resources for map change.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,950 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    protoneous wrote: »
    I guess there could be certain aspects of combined ground/space TFO's possibly not being as popular with some players but am not getting what the system guy said. There's a map change each time a player enters a TFO so not sure how one more map change during a TFO would be any different. Also missions have multiple map changes as they involve both ground and space.

    I wouldn't mind if they brought some combined TFO's back. It would be a refreshing change from some of the content they have now and as pointed out by Rattler a lot of things can be completed a lot faster now than back in the day. I could see a combined map that used to take an hour being completed in half that time or less.

    This could make for a very entertaining experience with less filler type (timer based) mechanics.

    Well... most missions are run by a single player, while TFOs are at least 5 man. That's more resources for map change.

    Some TFO's are 10 person. Wouldn't they be the equivalent of a 5 person TFO with an extra map change?
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    A lot of people end up at the login screen trying to get into TFO in the first place, same thing with map changes in missions. For example about one in five map changes take longer than normal and end up crashing to the login screen whenever I try to enter a TFO or mission (or just go from ship to ground, ground to ship, or between different maps in a mission for that matter). And that is with all of the workarounds (like turning 'on demand patching' off) that are supposed to stop that nonsense from happening in place.

    Some people never have much trouble like that, some occasionally, and some frequently. On missions it is an annoyance, but if it was in the middle of a TFO because it changed maps it would be much worse because it would probably end up with the team short a person for the rest of it and the dumped person ending up with a leaver penalty even though they did not leave on purpose.

    I can see how it would be a nightmare for the devs that they do not want to mess with.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,950 Arc User
    Perhaps it's not really a nightmare but just a map transfer that was possible a decade ago?

    I didn't realize map transfers were currently causing so many issues. It seems so random. Hopefully it's something they can fix.
  • aftulusaftulus Member Posts: 668 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Huh... wasn't aware of a map switch bug like that. I thought they weren't doing TFOs with both because when they did at launch with the original Borg TFOs, they took too long.

    See... If they had more people working with the code, the likelihood of eliminating bugs like this would go up, and then maybe all sorts of clever things could be done with transition events...

    I imagine it is just as frustrating for Cryptic as it is for us.

    It wasn't a bug. The whole combined TFO back then could take an hour or two at LEAST from what I heard. That is why they split them into separate space and ground queues. So that players didn't have to dedicate so much time to one thing. And also take into consideration back then the top level was 50, and we didn't have all the power creep we do now that can nuke an Infected space in minutes, and have so many good anti-borg weapons on the ground.

    It seems to be both according to a question someone asked about combined space/ground TFOs in a livestream I saw a little while ago (I don't remember what the livestream's main topic was or I would go back and take another look to be sure). The devs did indeed bring up the time factor (the longer TFOs are rarely popular, the most popular are short and frenetic), and the system guy they had on that one added that with the trouble a lot of people have with map changes dumping them to the sign-on screen they are not practical in TFOs

    The only reason short ones are popular is to get sufficient marks or other resources for the time. If they scaled it better people would not neccesarily care. Or they would load them according to their preference again if it's not marks. They could have a scaling prize of some sort. Or raise the value of mission that must take longer.
This discussion has been closed.