test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Ship Interiors, Exploration and Foundry Lite...

13»

Comments

  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    All the things you say they don't have to worry about should be reasons why the results of modders are inferior to and take more time to develop than the results of professionals. Many of them don't have 8 hours a day to work on their projects. They've got a job to go to. And here's the kicker:

    A lot of them end up working for a professional developer. And even though they are capable of delivering amazing results quickly, the bureaucracy ties their hands. Hurry up and wait. Hurry up and wait. It doesn't have to be that way. That it is that way is a crying shame. It's like having a computer system that can run the newest games in their highest resolution at 60+ FPS, and then installing bloatware that slows it down to a crawl and saying "This is how I roll!"

    The point is, if a modding team can produce more content at superior quality to that which so-called professionals manage, then perhaps there really are too many steps involved on the so-called professional side.

    I say "so-called" because the tier of modders I refer to have a master-level grasp of the tools and master-level skills with them. The only thing keeping them from achieving the label of "professional" is not working on a paid project. They've got the proper aptitude. They've got the proper atitude.
    Modders can more easily put out individual items, like a gun, or a piece armor, at a faster rate, but you look at any large scale modding project and they are all messes that take years to put out something thats far less expansive then an actual game. I can think of many larger scale modding projects like New California, Frontier, Falskaar, Sim Settlements, the various "remake X Bethesda game in Y Bethesda game engine" mods, that had years in development, only to get a fraction of the playable content compared to the game they are built around, despite already have all of the actual game mechanic built for them. The quality of these larger modding projects also tends to be much lower then the games they are built around, lacking the same level of detailed world, lore, and quest complexity. And they are all this way exactly because they don't follow these sorts of processes.

    I know this from my own job as well. At my job we get tons of stuff from around the country, and for the stuff we get to go from one end of the pipeline to the other it has to go through like 7-8 different departments, and takes around a week to do so. I could hand walk any individual thing we get through these steps in a single day if I had access to all of these departments, but you can't just do that for every single thing because there is so much of it that there is no way to do that for everything we have without things getting missed.

    The sort of wild west, shoot from the hip, style of game development you can use for a small RPG Maker game doesn't really work on a larger scale project if you want to maintain the same level of quality and consistency throughout. Even indie studios follow these same design patterns because they are necessary to make sure everything gets done in a timely fashion.

    I am familiar with some of the projects you mentioned. They tend to be prone to a lot of micromanagement that creates a lot of bottlenecking. And I do recognize that there needs to be a flow through different design processes to ensure success. And if the company in question was operating like a well-oiled machine and dedicated staff in the right positions, then even the convoluted multi-step process can move a lot more efficiently. But we are talking about Cryptic here. A studio that is at best a skeleton crew with multiple key responsibilities being undertaken by the same person. It is my impression that a process that should be going Person A B C D E is actually going Person A A A B A. Make too few people wear too many hats and a backlog of bottlenecked work is inevitable.

    If PWE would give Cryptic the budget to hire Persons C D and E, then a proper flow of responsibilities can be established. Cryptic could if PWE would. But PWE won't so Cryptic Can't. And if the tools they have to work with require manipulation at the code level to add an element that by all rights should not involve code work, then it gets even worse. I'm not going to budge on my position that Cryptic needs more developers DEDICATED to STO and to specific areas of STO's development.

    It's like sorting out a badly-planned highway system. Identify the areas where bottlenecking occurs, fix what's causing it, and then the traffic flows more smoothly.

    SOE ran into all sorts of gridlock with Star Wars Galaxies, because anything they wanted to add had to go through LucasArts, which then had to go through LucasLicensing, before going back to LucasArts with questions that had to go back to SOE for redressal before going back through the process again. It took so long to get things bounced around on the LucasSide that by the time it got a green light MONTHS had passed and by the time it actually went into the game, nobody cared. Or it was rendered pointless because of the NGE...

    I know that CBS has to be consulted for things that happen in STO. But I don't see it being anywhere near as inefficient. As soon as Discovery aired its first episode, STO already had Age of Discovery in the pipeline. So it would seem that CBS at least is game for what Cryptic can do to cross-market their content.

    I wonder what would happen if people started pressuring CBS to put a little pressure on PWE to make it possible for Cryptic to do X Y and Z, because X Y and Z would deliver the product that BCS feels STO should be.
    [MayorSnow]STOP SAYING LETTERS![/MayorSnow]
    Cryptic Studios CAN'T
    because
    Perfect World Entertainment WON'T
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,881 Arc User
    CBS seems to have been inconsistent in their dealings with STO. For early DSC they let the devs in further, showed them stuff in advance and let them in on plot developments ahead of time, but for Lower Decks they had to wait and watch the shows like everyone else for the "special ability" CBS hinted the Cerritos has. Mostly they seem to just pass along copies of the digital models sometime in the season they appear in now.
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    CBS seems to have been inconsistent in their dealings with STO. For early DSC they let the devs in further, showed them stuff in advance and let them in on plot developments ahead of time, but for Lower Decks they had to wait and watch the shows like everyone else for the "special ability" CBS hinted the Cerritos has. Mostly they seem to just pass along copies of the digital models sometime in the season they appear in now.

    I'm just saying that CBS doesn't seem to make Cryptic jump through the same hoops that SOe had to jump through with LucasArts for every little thing they wanted to do... What might happen if CBS went to Cryptic and said, You know, for a show that is based on the premise of exploration, there's very little exploration in your game. Yes, We know that we don't show the crew actually doing exploration, but rather dealing with what they find while exploring, but we only have one hour to tell specific stories. But a game opens the door for so much more..." Cryptic can then go to PWE and say, "CBS wants us to add exploration into the game. We need new dedicated staff members. Cough up the money..." Well... maybe they would be more diplomatic, but you get the idea... I mean, after all, the promise of exploration as a driving force of the player economy was one of the key concepts that got a lot of people interested in STO when it was announced. That they only had time to implement a half-baked placeholder that sort of worked was due to them only having two years to develop a fully viable MMO, something which usually takes a MINIMUM of 4 years when applying the simplest definition of MMO... It's also why the KDF launched half-baked, because they HAD to get the Federation side functional, because thematically speaking Star Trek has always been Federation-centric. But now with all the money the game generates, primarily thanks to the lockboxes that people just throw money at to get ships that while "rare" are also less complete than ships you get for free, or just buy outright on the C-store.

    OR...

    What iif CBS were to say to Cryptic, "You know, one of thhe most familiar and recurring elements in every Star Trek series was the setting of the inside of the ship/station. But there's nothing to do in your game's starship interiors that make them worth visiting. All the magic happens on board the ship. Have you considered making it so?" And then Cryptic can go to PWE and go, "CBS wants us to add gameplay functionality to ship interiors, so cough up the money so we can hire someone to handle that."

    IF CBS, the licensor, tlls the licensee they think it would be a good idea for X or Y, then the licensee should probably find a way to make X and Y happen. So perhaps begging Cryptic to add exploration and ship-board gameplay is the wrong approach... Perhaps if enough of us annoying little globflies keep buzzing around CBS' head, maybe they will wonder why they are having to listen to requests for something that by all rights should have been in the game all along? Hmmm...

    It's a question of manpower, which means its a question of money. PWE can afford it. They just need a good reason to cough up the money...
    Cryptic Studios CAN'T
    because
    Perfect World Entertainment WON'T
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    Turning attention back to exploration, while I believe that an autonomous system would be great for providing on-going activities for players the way the original system did, I think that exploration can effectively use the mechanics of the fleet holding and reputation systems to facilitate the discovery of things in a star system. Essentially any player wishing to participate can go there and do activities that award resources that could be contributed to "projects" and as those "projects" are completed, more elements of the star system would open up. and as these elements become available, opportunities for colonization and industrialization would become available.

    We are talking about the extension of the holding/reputation mechanics into the sector space scale, but a little different. When approaching a star on the sector space map, the player would enter the star system map, which would be like another sector space map, but instead of just stars, the points of interest would be planets. The star would be at the center of the map and the planets spread out around it Each planet could have different things that can be researched. and when all research "projects" are completed, Alliance Command would present options available for the construction of facilities, be they mining facilities, refineries, colonies, or any number of other facilities that can play into a galactic metagame. These places would be visitable, and ideally have metagames associated with them that involve direct player involvement (if desired) and DOff assignments.

    The culmonation of the content would be fully exploring and researching a star system and unlocking every potential strategic use for it, and at the end, there would be a player hub there that the players themselves would have "built". And ideally, the mission content developers would drop story missions in these hubs while they are being built so even those who don't necessarily want to participate in the discovery/development phases of a star system will have a reason to go there.

    Personal holdings like apartments, and support facilities could be linked to planets in the star system. These would be "buildable" AND would factor into the metagame. and would be where players would go to do those activities I mentioned.

    An extension of Admiralty would make it so that players can control the flow of resources throughout Alliance Space, supporting and defending alliance interests against potential threats represented by the extra-galactic and extra-dimensional threats we've been dealing with. These star systems would be where all the resources involved in that would come from.

    Ideally, the star systems would be randomly generated, as would all the potential elements that go in them, influincing what ultimately can and cannot be built thre. This introduces that unknown factor. Some star systems would have civilizations ripe for first contact. The sentient beings in these civilization would have their appearance randomly generated using the alien character creation elements. Commodities they have to trade as well as commodities they need would also be random. Their disposition towards outsiders would be another random factor. They might be friendly and eager to welcome the Alliance, or they may be xenophobic isolationists who would just as soon kill outsiders as even LOOK at them... to go from one end of the spectrum to the other. This then would add a new dynamic to the discovery/construction phase, as it would mean dealing with these species in some way before just being able to start moving in and building installations. Some of these civilizations might be at war with each other... Diplomacy would play into this as helping to end hostilities so the Alliance can get to the point where they can start discovering and constructing...

    I'll leave it there for now...
    Cryptic Studios CAN'T
    because
    Perfect World Entertainment WON'T
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    Frankly, I've always felt that if our ship is destroyed, which should only occur in the most extreme circumstances, it should be gone and another one constructed But for the most part, our ships should just be disabled, maybe slowly tumbling out of control, all lights out. no power to the Nacelles, and we should have to conduct repairs inside our ship interiors. How much repair work is needed would depend on how much overkill the enemy did. It would take anywhere from 5 to 10 minutes for repairs to be conducted automatically, but completing repair tasks would reduce the auto-repair timer . Our interiors could have computer panels blown out, ruptured EPS conduits, lights mostly out and flickering, maybe sections exposed to space...

    You know... Stuff like we see in the shows whenever the hero-ship gets busted up in combat or damaged by some anomaly. And I would have liked to have seen them keep the crew count, but have it reflect different divisions. Crew could be replaced at player hub locations by converting Doffs into generic crew of the same profession. They would just be numbers, but it would mean that not only would DOffs be part of the minigame, but would be resources needed to keep our ships operating at optimal levels.

    If repairs are conducted in time, the ship can return to the battle.

    If the battle ends and the enemy is victorious, then they could start beaming over while the ship is disabled and they would have to be dealt with on top of repairs. If the battle is over and allies are victorious, they could beam over and help with the repairs.

    The first minute of being disabled would be critical. If the warp core is not stabilized, it will breach, and then BOOM.

    I've always felt it was stupid to just respawn right back in the battle. All that does is promote zerging... Keep going at iit until you win. There needs to be the possibility of losing and consequences. THAT would have been the combat overhaul I would have made. And look... It would have given ship interiors a purpose tied to gameplay....
    Cryptic Studios CAN'T
    because
    Perfect World Entertainment WON'T
  • fazemladaiyafazemladaiya Member Posts: 165 Arc User
    I've always felt it was stupid to just respawn right back in the battle. All that does is promote zerging... Keep going at iit until you win. There needs to be the possibility of losing and consequences. THAT would have been the combat overhaul I would have made. And look... It would have given ship interiors a purpose tied to gameplay....

    I could not agree more.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,800 Community Moderator
    The problem is the game, as far as I am aware, does not support this split instance type of thing, where you're still in, say an Infected run, and can pop into your ship to repair damage while the same battle is raging around you. Every map is its own instance. And not every bridge has the lower decks to go to for repairs. AND if we add in the canon interiors, not all the decks line up with each other. So if you had to go to Engineering, that's a different deck on the Belfast interior vs the Intrepid interior vs the Galaxy interior...
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,881 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The problem is the game, as far as I am aware, does not support this split instance type of thing, where you're still in, say an Infected run, and can pop into your ship to repair damage while the same battle is raging around you. Every map is its own instance. And not every bridge has the lower decks to go to for repairs. AND if we add in the canon interiors, not all the decks line up with each other. So if you had to go to Engineering, that's a different deck on the Belfast interior vs the Intrepid interior vs the Galaxy interior...

    True, in one of the livestreams the devs said that when you go into the interior of your ship that the ship leaves whatever space it was in and goes back when you come out of it. Not only would it remove you from the TFO or whatever, there is a high chance of the map switch bug dumping you out to the login screen (and that same bug is why they cannot do TFOs with both space and ground segments).
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,800 Community Moderator
    Huh... wasn't aware of a map switch bug like that. I thought they weren't doing TFOs with both because when they did at launch with the original Borg TFOs, they took too long.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    I can see how one may assume I was referring to split instancing. That's not possible. What IS possible is, when a ship is disabled. and the player is transferred to his ship interior map, a duplicate object of his ship is left in the battle zone. It's not actively controlled. But it is there for the benefit of any other players who are also in the map. They get to see the ship just more or less dead. Now it would be interactable, allowing other players to beam over and render assistance. They'd beam into the other ship's transporter room and would be able to help with repairs.

    The scenario I mentioned where if the enemy won the battle, it would be a hostile boarding party,,, This assumes that the game can track the status of one map instance and trigger events in another map if a certain condition is met. If it cannot do this, then nevermind. If it can, then the condition would be battle lost in mapX instance Y, and the event would be hostile troops beaming over and attacking the player/NPCs...

    As to returning to the fight after getting the ship back online, it would be a little trickier. I suppose that when the player re-enters the battle map, the real ship would do so at the dummy ship's location and orientation and the dummy ship would despawn.

    In battle instances where only one player is involved, no dummy ship is necessary, and the hostile boarding parties scenario would be a function of ship-board gameplay that would be turned on, with a variable passed to it that controls which enemy types need to be involved.

    I do realize that SOME new mechanics would need to be produced to make something like this work optimally. But most of it uses pre-existing mechanics that just need to be utilized in clever ways. Just because the engine was not DESIGNED to do something doesn't mean it CAN'T do it. People have been improvising all sorts of things to implement features for things that were not planned. It's called innovation.

    But them, Cryptic only has a skeleton crew working on STO because PWE won't allocate the funds that would allow them to grow the STO team enough where they could afford the manpower to innovate.

    How many cool features could the game get if they had a dedicated coder with one directive: "Look at all existing game systems and come up with as many different ways to use their functionality to do things the game doesn't already do.". This coder would need to actually get into the live game and play the hell out of it, understanding exactly what the code is actually doing in a live environment and always be asking the question, "Wouldn't it be cool if it did THIS?" and then figure out how to make it do that.

    But until PWE starts giviing a damn about more than JUST the profits, nothing innovative can happen. There HAVE been MMOs that have since shut down whose developers innovated all the way from launch to sunset. When an MMO stops evolving and just settles into a rut with now effort to build upon its foundations, it might as well just go into maintenance mode as it circles the drain... Is that where STO is? It sure feels like it sometimmes. Star Trek itself is being revitalized after years of stagnation, whether or not we as individuals LIKE the direction they've taken the shows. The time is PRIME for Cryptic to make STO EXPLODE with new possibilities. PWE needs to be made to see this and get behind an innitiative to make this game strive for its fullest potential.

    I know. It IS what it is. But I can also see what it COULD BE... IF the people in decision making positions actualy decide to make it so. It isn't like they can't AFFORD to make it happen... They just don't.

    Since PWE bought Cryptic, more has been removed from the game than has been added, systemically. And so many elements that could have been rolled into world interactions have been just dropped in as user interface options in the name of convenience. Admiralty and DOffing SHOULD have been ship-board gameplay mechanics, as should have been R&D. That way it would involve interacting with the actual game environment and our primary crew, making them more than just window dressing sitting in chairs on the bridge.

    Yeah... I know. I've heard it before: "If I had to visit my ship interiors to do X Y or Z, I just wouldn't bother..." It's easy to say that when X Y and Z have always been UI options. But if they started out as shipboard activities, then THAT would be how it is, and I doubt most people would care that they would have to load into the interior of their ship... You know... The setting where 90% of the shows take place, but right now we have zero reason to visit... Because nothing meaningful ever gets put there...

    I think that, if there weren't players who spent Zen to buy bridge packs, they would just remove ship interiors from the game, but if they did that now, they would have to refund the Zen. That would not be good business...
    Cryptic Studios CAN'T
    because
    Perfect World Entertainment WON'T
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Huh... wasn't aware of a map switch bug like that. I thought they weren't doing TFOs with both because when they did at launch with the original Borg TFOs, they took too long.

    See... If they had more people working with the code, the likelihood of eliminating bugs like this would go up, and then maybe all sorts of clever things could be done with transition events...

    I imagine it is just as frustrating for Cryptic as it is for us.
    Cryptic Studios CAN'T
    because
    Perfect World Entertainment WON'T
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,800 Community Moderator
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Huh... wasn't aware of a map switch bug like that. I thought they weren't doing TFOs with both because when they did at launch with the original Borg TFOs, they took too long.

    See... If they had more people working with the code, the likelihood of eliminating bugs like this would go up, and then maybe all sorts of clever things could be done with transition events...

    I imagine it is just as frustrating for Cryptic as it is for us.

    It wasn't a bug. The whole combined TFO back then could take an hour or two at LEAST from what I heard. That is why they split them into separate space and ground queues. So that players didn't have to dedicate so much time to one thing. And also take into consideration back then the top level was 50, and we didn't have all the power creep we do now that can nuke an Infected space in minutes, and have so many good anti-borg weapons on the ground.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,808 Arc User
    .
    CBS seems to have been inconsistent in their dealings with STO. For early DSC they let the devs in further, showed them stuff in advance and let them in on plot developments ahead of time, but for Lower Decks they had to wait and watch the shows like everyone else for the "special ability" CBS hinted the Cerritos has. Mostly they seem to just pass along copies of the digital models sometime in the season they appear in now.

    They got access to some early stuff but not all - even WRT Discovery content they waited until they saw the final episode of S2 to see if the 'Disco-Prise' did anything; and AFTER that episode 'aired'/streamed; they finished and released that ship based on what they saw there. So yeah, Cryptic may get a bit more broad stroke info than your average fan on the street, but no, CBS isn't giving then a lot of 'fore knowledge' from the production teams as those teams work on the shows (and I understand why because until an episode is finally and fully edited and approved for air; ANYTHING can change.)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,881 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Huh... wasn't aware of a map switch bug like that. I thought they weren't doing TFOs with both because when they did at launch with the original Borg TFOs, they took too long.

    See... If they had more people working with the code, the likelihood of eliminating bugs like this would go up, and then maybe all sorts of clever things could be done with transition events...

    I imagine it is just as frustrating for Cryptic as it is for us.

    It wasn't a bug. The whole combined TFO back then could take an hour or two at LEAST from what I heard. That is why they split them into separate space and ground queues. So that players didn't have to dedicate so much time to one thing. And also take into consideration back then the top level was 50, and we didn't have all the power creep we do now that can nuke an Infected space in minutes, and have so many good anti-borg weapons on the ground.

    It seems to be both according to a question someone asked about combined space/ground TFOs in a livestream I saw a little while ago (I don't remember what the livestream's main topic was or I would go back and take another look to be sure). The devs did indeed bring up the time factor (the longer TFOs are rarely popular, the most popular are short and frenetic), and the system guy they had on that one added that with the trouble a lot of people have with map changes dumping them to the sign-on screen they are not practical in TFOs
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Huh... wasn't aware of a map switch bug like that. I thought they weren't doing TFOs with both because when they did at launch with the original Borg TFOs, they took too long.

    See... If they had more people working with the code, the likelihood of eliminating bugs like this would go up, and then maybe all sorts of clever things could be done with transition events...

    I imagine it is just as frustrating for Cryptic as it is for us.

    It wasn't a bug. The whole combined TFO back then could take an hour or two at LEAST from what I heard. That is why they split them into separate space and ground queues. So that players didn't have to dedicate so much time to one thing. And also take into consideration back then the top level was 50, and we didn't have all the power creep we do now that can nuke an Infected space in minutes, and have so many good anti-borg weapons on the ground.

    It seems to be both according to a question someone asked about combined space/ground TFOs in a livestream I saw a little while ago (I don't remember what the livestream's main topic was or I would go back and take another look to be sure). The devs did indeed bring up the time factor (the longer TFOs are rarely popular, the most popular are short and frenetic), and the system guy they had on that one added that with the trouble a lot of people have with map changes dumping them to the sign-on screen they are not practical in TFOs

    I guess there could be certain aspects of combined ground/space TFO's possibly not being as popular with some players but am not getting what the system guy said. There's a map change each time a player enters a TFO so not sure how one more map change during a TFO would be any different. Also missions have multiple map changes as they involve both ground and space.

    I wouldn't mind if they brought some combined TFO's back. It would be a refreshing change from some of the content they have now and as pointed out by Rattler a lot of things can be completed a lot faster now than back in the day. I could see a combined map that used to take an hour being completed in half that time or less.

    This could make for a very entertaining experience with less filler type (timer based) mechanics.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 54,800 Community Moderator
    protoneous wrote: »
    I guess there could be certain aspects of combined ground/space TFO's possibly not being as popular with some players but am not getting what the system guy said. There's a map change each time a player enters a TFO so not sure how one more map change during a TFO would be any different. Also missions have multiple map changes as they involve both ground and space.

    I wouldn't mind if they brought some combined TFO's back. It would be a refreshing change from some of the content they have now and as pointed out by Rattler a lot of things can be completed a lot faster now than back in the day. I could see a combined map that used to take an hour being completed in half that time or less.

    This could make for a very entertaining experience with less filler type (timer based) mechanics.

    Well... most missions are run by a single player, while TFOs are at least 5 man. That's more resources for map change.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    protoneous wrote: »
    I guess there could be certain aspects of combined ground/space TFO's possibly not being as popular with some players but am not getting what the system guy said. There's a map change each time a player enters a TFO so not sure how one more map change during a TFO would be any different. Also missions have multiple map changes as they involve both ground and space.

    I wouldn't mind if they brought some combined TFO's back. It would be a refreshing change from some of the content they have now and as pointed out by Rattler a lot of things can be completed a lot faster now than back in the day. I could see a combined map that used to take an hour being completed in half that time or less.

    This could make for a very entertaining experience with less filler type (timer based) mechanics.

    Well... most missions are run by a single player, while TFOs are at least 5 man. That's more resources for map change.

    Some TFO's are 10 person. Wouldn't they be the equivalent of a 5 person TFO with an extra map change?
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,881 Arc User
    edited November 2021
    A lot of people end up at the login screen trying to get into TFO in the first place, same thing with map changes in missions. For example about one in five map changes take longer than normal and end up crashing to the login screen whenever I try to enter a TFO or mission (or just go from ship to ground, ground to ship, or between different maps in a mission for that matter). And that is with all of the workarounds (like turning 'on demand patching' off) that are supposed to stop that nonsense from happening in place.

    Some people never have much trouble like that, some occasionally, and some frequently. On missions it is an annoyance, but if it was in the middle of a TFO because it changed maps it would be much worse because it would probably end up with the team short a person for the rest of it and the dumped person ending up with a leaver penalty even though they did not leave on purpose.

    I can see how it would be a nightmare for the devs that they do not want to mess with.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,252 Arc User
    Perhaps it's not really a nightmare but just a map transfer that was possible a decade ago?

    I didn't realize map transfers were currently causing so many issues. It seems so random. Hopefully it's something they can fix.
  • aftulusaftulus Member Posts: 667 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Huh... wasn't aware of a map switch bug like that. I thought they weren't doing TFOs with both because when they did at launch with the original Borg TFOs, they took too long.

    See... If they had more people working with the code, the likelihood of eliminating bugs like this would go up, and then maybe all sorts of clever things could be done with transition events...

    I imagine it is just as frustrating for Cryptic as it is for us.

    It wasn't a bug. The whole combined TFO back then could take an hour or two at LEAST from what I heard. That is why they split them into separate space and ground queues. So that players didn't have to dedicate so much time to one thing. And also take into consideration back then the top level was 50, and we didn't have all the power creep we do now that can nuke an Infected space in minutes, and have so many good anti-borg weapons on the ground.

    It seems to be both according to a question someone asked about combined space/ground TFOs in a livestream I saw a little while ago (I don't remember what the livestream's main topic was or I would go back and take another look to be sure). The devs did indeed bring up the time factor (the longer TFOs are rarely popular, the most popular are short and frenetic), and the system guy they had on that one added that with the trouble a lot of people have with map changes dumping them to the sign-on screen they are not practical in TFOs

    The only reason short ones are popular is to get sufficient marks or other resources for the time. If they scaled it better people would not neccesarily care. Or they would load them according to their preference again if it's not marks. They could have a scaling prize of some sort. Or raise the value of mission that must take longer.
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,532 Arc User
    I mentioned "Life Aboard Ship" earlier in this thread. This could be sort of a virtual ant farm in the game. And endless chain of character-oriented events that branch off each other. And potentially overlap. One thing we saw in the shows was dramatic interactions, or different emotional frames of mind on the part of different members of the crew. In some cases, these drama elements played into the episode's story.

    By implementing a rules-driven rfandom dramatic element to each BOff we have, and make sure that each one has a physical space they can exist in our interiors, it is hypothetically possible to run a shipboard life simulation that will play out completely differently for every player.

    Think of this element as the B-plot of the game.

    In a way, there is existing precedent for this inside the DOff system. When certain traits are combined with others in a DOff assignment, failures can occur. So certain BOffs could be vulnerable to certain dramatic events based on how certain personality traits they possess interact with certain other personality traits of other BOffs. The player won't know how his crew will interact with each other.

    Just throwing it out there as an idea to give optional but personally impactful drama that could take place on board ship.
    Cryptic Studios CAN'T
    because
    Perfect World Entertainment WON'T
Sign In or Register to comment.