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"the entire Mudd's Market is on sale for 75% off"

Except of course it's not, and the one thing a lot of us where waiting for is mysteriously not on sale. The Into Darkness bundle. Cryptic could we get some clarity as to if this was intentionally misleading or you goofed? because Entire means entire.

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Join Date. Dec 2007

Comments

  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,822 Arc User
    They've done it this way before so most likely working as intended.

    The posts just neglected to include the "(bundles excluded)" fine print. A blog with missing or incorrect info? That's a shock!
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,900 Arc User
    Except of course it's not, and the one thing a lot of us where waiting for is mysteriously not on sale. The Into Darkness bundle. Cryptic could we get some clarity as to if this was intentionally misleading or you goofed? because Entire means entire.

    Well, If you're a PC player:

    From the Blog:
    But that's not all, as the entire store will be on sale for 75% off from October 7th at 8am PT (17:00 CEST) to October 11th at 10am PT (19:00 CEST), on Xbox and Playstation. We'll have updated dates for the sale on PC as soon as the items go live there. Enjoy, Captains!
    ^^^
    So, one of the rare times something hits the XBox and Playstation before it hits the PC.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • n0vastaronen0vastarone Member Posts: 303 Arc User
    Except of course it's not, and the one thing a lot of us where waiting for is mysteriously not on sale. The Into Darkness bundle. Cryptic could we get some clarity as to if this was intentionally misleading or you goofed? because Entire means entire.

    Well, If you're a PC player:

    From the Blog:
    But that's not all, as the entire store will be on sale for 75% off from October 7th at 8am PT (17:00 CEST) to October 11th at 10am PT (19:00 CEST), on Xbox and Playstation. We'll have updated dates for the sale on PC as soon as the items go live there. Enjoy, Captains!
    ^^^
    So, one of the rare times something hits the XBox and Playstation before it hits the PC.

    the sale is literally in game right now. Except the bundle, so either they goofed, or once again, intentional.

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    Join Date. Dec 2007
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 2,072 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    Except of course it's not, and the one thing a lot of us where waiting for is mysteriously not on sale. The Into Darkness bundle. Cryptic could we get some clarity as to if this was intentionally misleading or you goofed? because Entire means entire.

    Well, If you're a PC player:

    From the Blog:
    But that's not all, as the entire store will be on sale for 75% off from October 7th at 8am PT (17:00 CEST) to October 11th at 10am PT (19:00 CEST), on Xbox and Playstation. We'll have updated dates for the sale on PC as soon as the items go live there. Enjoy, Captains!
    ^^^
    So, one of the rare times something hits the XBox and Playstation before it hits the PC.

    the sale is literally in game right now. Except the bundle, so either they goofed, or once again, intentional.

    I don't think Mudd sales have ever included bundles unless it says to explicitly, for example, the Mudd super sale last December, where all the previous bundles were brought back as part of the sale. One could certainly make the point that "Everything" should include the bundles (that's what 'everything' means, after all), but while the wording is wildly inaccurate, it *IS* consistent with previous Mudd 'everything' sales. Of course, I think some previous sales (not all of them) have included the disclaimer about it not including the bundles.
  • n0vastaronen0vastarone Member Posts: 303 Arc User
    typical, look at all the TRIBBLE on sale that nobody wants, but the one thing people want doesnt go on sale

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    Join Date. Dec 2007
  • tempur76tempur76 Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    I normally don't log into the forum to comment one way or another, but the inaccurate information provided by Cryptic is getting annoying. Words have meaning. Saying that everything will be on sale doesn't mean "everything but the stuff we forgot to tell you about." This constant TRIBBLE poor communication is starting to turn away veteran players who otherwise aren't vocal on the forum.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,108 Arc User
    It's really strange how some people want to try to justify/defend/etc this. The words "entire market" are pretty self explanatory. If that's not actually the case, those words shouldn't be used, period. Saying how things normally are, or were in the past, doesn't really matter.

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  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 2,072 Arc User
    It's really strange how some people want to try to justify/defend/etc this. The words "entire market" are pretty self explanatory. If that's not actually the case, those words shouldn't be used, period. Saying how things normally are, or were in the past, doesn't really matter.

    We already know that 'someone' uses lazy copy-paste posts that often don't include all of the right or relevant information. So what's 'consistent' is far more important than what we're told to expect. Because what we're told to expect is routinely wrong.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,822 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    It's really strange how some people want to try to justify/defend/etc this. The words "entire market" are pretty self explanatory. If that's not actually the case, those words shouldn't be used, period. Saying how things normally are, or were in the past, doesn't really matter.

    I'm not defending it. I'm pointing out that Cryptic normally uses the exact same marketing speak as everyone else for Mudd's sales.



    ALL COATS ON SALE EVERYTHING 50% OFF! *

    * Excludes Ralph Lauren, Burberry, and that one coat you really want. Ha ha ha!



    They just messed up and forgot to include the small print excludes part.

  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,900 Arc User
    It's really strange how some people want to try to justify/defend/etc this. The words "entire market" are pretty self explanatory. If that's not actually the case, those words shouldn't be used, period. Saying how things normally are, or were in the past, doesn't really matter.

    I'm not defending it. I'm pointing out that Cryptic normally uses the exact same marketing speak as everyone else for Mudd's sales.



    ALL COATS ON SALE EVERYTHING 50% OFF! *

    * Excludes Ralph Lauren, Burberry, and that one coat you really want. Ha ha ha!



    They just messed up and forgot to include the small print excludes part.

    The thing is - in actual retail, IF you TRIBBLE up an ad; you are REQUIRED to honor the terms of the ad until you issue a correction.

    And yes, I get that Kael has certain issues beyond his control per se - BUT by now Cryptic is well aware of them and you would think the marketing team would have someone assist him (IE make an ADA accommodation that doesn't affect his job status) in PROPERLY checking/proofreading marketing content BEFORE its published.

    That Cryptic Marketing Management/Cryptic Management in general HASN'T done anything to mitigate the situation (which occurs with practically ALL marketing copy released these days for STO) says more about Cryptic's incompetent management/corporate culture, than Kael's know disability in this area.

    Most companies would be embarrassed to let a KNOWN situation like this continue for years now, and do nothing to correct it (or make any sort of ADA accommodation for the Employee in question other than "let the mistakes continue unabated".
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
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  • livinlifejb90#4082 livinlifejb90 Member Posts: 218 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    Doom post redacted - rattler
    Post edited by rattler2 on
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 9,822 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    Response to moderated post redacted - rattler
    Post edited by rattler2 on
  • kuraitsukaikuraitsukai Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    What I find annoying about this is it's a violation of FTC rules. Cryptic needs to clarify these things, and frankly you'd think their legal department would be on point with this. By omitting the bundles which are clearly part of Mudd's Market they're misleading consumers.

    "The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to: mislead consumers and affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service. In addition, an act or practice is unfair if the injury it causes or is likely to cause, is: substantial, not outweighed by other benefits and not reasonably avoidable.

    The FTC Act prohibits unfair or deceptive advertising in any medium. That is, advertising must tell the truth and not mislead consumers. A claim can be misleading if relevant information is left out or if the claim implies something that's not true."

    But who knows, maybe there's some loophole they're able to jump through on this... just food for thought.

    I've been hoping the Into Darkness and Beyond choice pack was going to go on sale, and to find out they said one thing and did another has left me more than just a little disappointed to say the least.
  • livinlifejb90#4082 livinlifejb90 Member Posts: 218 Arc User
    What I find annoying about this is it's a violation of FTC rules. Cryptic needs to clarify these things, and frankly you'd think their legal department would be on point with this. By omitting the bundles which are clearly part of Mudd's Market they're misleading consumers.

    "The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to: mislead consumers and affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service. In addition, an act or practice is unfair if the injury it causes or is likely to cause, is: substantial, not outweighed by other benefits and not reasonably avoidable.

    The FTC Act prohibits unfair or deceptive advertising in any medium. That is, advertising must tell the truth and not mislead consumers. A claim can be misleading if relevant information is left out or if the claim implies something that's not true."

    But who knows, maybe there's some loophole they're able to jump through on this... just food for thought.

    I've been hoping the Into Darkness and Beyond choice pack was going to go on sale, and to find out they said one thing and did another has left me more than just a little disappointed to say the least.

    do it, go after them. maybe someone can look into their gambling practices too. i'd be really interested to know if Cryptic has a gambling license.​​
    gQytlm7.jpg
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 8,377 Arc User
    What I find annoying about this is it's a violation of FTC rules. Cryptic needs to clarify these things, and frankly you'd think their legal department would be on point with this. By omitting the bundles which are clearly part of Mudd's Market they're misleading consumers.

    "The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to: mislead consumers and affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service. In addition, an act or practice is unfair if the injury it causes or is likely to cause, is: substantial, not outweighed by other benefits and not reasonably avoidable.

    The FTC Act prohibits unfair or deceptive advertising in any medium. That is, advertising must tell the truth and not mislead consumers. A claim can be misleading if relevant information is left out or if the claim implies something that's not true."

    But who knows, maybe there's some loophole they're able to jump through on this... just food for thought.

    I've been hoping the Into Darkness and Beyond choice pack was going to go on sale, and to find out they said one thing and did another has left me more than just a little disappointed to say the least.

    They stealth-edited the blog, and didn't change the timestamp, so now it looks like it said what it says all along. And it now says bundles are excluded.
  • n0vastaronen0vastarone Member Posts: 303 Arc User
    westmetals wrote: »
    What I find annoying about this is it's a violation of FTC rules. Cryptic needs to clarify these things, and frankly you'd think their legal department would be on point with this. By omitting the bundles which are clearly part of Mudd's Market they're misleading consumers.

    "The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to: mislead consumers and affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service. In addition, an act or practice is unfair if the injury it causes or is likely to cause, is: substantial, not outweighed by other benefits and not reasonably avoidable.

    The FTC Act prohibits unfair or deceptive advertising in any medium. That is, advertising must tell the truth and not mislead consumers. A claim can be misleading if relevant information is left out or if the claim implies something that's not true."

    But who knows, maybe there's some loophole they're able to jump through on this... just food for thought.

    I've been hoping the Into Darkness and Beyond choice pack was going to go on sale, and to find out they said one thing and did another has left me more than just a little disappointed to say the least.

    They stealth-edited the blog, and didn't change the timestamp, so now it looks like it said what it says all along. And it now says bundles are excluded.

    of course they did, because they are scummy as TRIBBLE

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    Join Date. Dec 2007
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,774 Arc User
    What I find annoying about this is it's a violation of FTC rules. Cryptic needs to clarify these things, and frankly you'd think their legal department would be on point with this. By omitting the bundles which are clearly part of Mudd's Market they're misleading consumers.

    "The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to: mislead consumers and affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service. In addition, an act or practice is unfair if the injury it causes or is likely to cause, is: substantial, not outweighed by other benefits and not reasonably avoidable.

    The FTC Act prohibits unfair or deceptive advertising in any medium. That is, advertising must tell the truth and not mislead consumers. A claim can be misleading if relevant information is left out or if the claim implies something that's not true."

    But who knows, maybe there's some loophole they're able to jump through on this... just food for thought.

    I've been hoping the Into Darkness and Beyond choice pack was going to go on sale, and to find out they said one thing and did another has left me more than just a little disappointed to say the least.

    maybe someone can look into their gambling practices too. i'd be really interested to know if Cryptic has a gambling license.​​

    Unfortunately the law hasn't caught up with lootboxes yet, so in most places the don't qualify as gambling under current law even though that's clearly what it is.
    westmetals wrote: »
    What I find annoying about this is it's a violation of FTC rules. Cryptic needs to clarify these things, and frankly you'd think their legal department would be on point with this. By omitting the bundles which are clearly part of Mudd's Market they're misleading consumers.

    "The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to: mislead consumers and affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service. In addition, an act or practice is unfair if the injury it causes or is likely to cause, is: substantial, not outweighed by other benefits and not reasonably avoidable.

    The FTC Act prohibits unfair or deceptive advertising in any medium. That is, advertising must tell the truth and not mislead consumers. A claim can be misleading if relevant information is left out or if the claim implies something that's not true."

    But who knows, maybe there's some loophole they're able to jump through on this... just food for thought.

    I've been hoping the Into Darkness and Beyond choice pack was going to go on sale, and to find out they said one thing and did another has left me more than just a little disappointed to say the least.

    They stealth-edited the blog, and didn't change the timestamp, so now it looks like it said what it says all along. And it now says bundles are excluded.

    This is why you should ALWAYS screenshot things like that if you want to complain about it.
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    It's really strange how some people want to try to justify/defend/etc this. The words "entire market" are pretty self explanatory. If that's not actually the case, those words shouldn't be used, period. Saying how things normally are, or were in the past, doesn't really matter.

    Totally agreed.

    The only thing worse then Cryptic's constant false advertising is the way some just dismiss or even excuse it.
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  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 2,072 Arc User
    It's really strange how some people want to try to justify/defend/etc this. The words "entire market" are pretty self explanatory. If that's not actually the case, those words shouldn't be used, period. Saying how things normally are, or were in the past, doesn't really matter.

    Totally agreed.

    The only thing worse then Cryptic's constant false advertising is the way some just dismiss or even excuse it.

    As I said above, we *KNOW* someone routinely does copy-paste fail-posts that omits important details or includes incorrect or misleading information. So the only thing we *CAN* rely on is what is *CONSISTENT* with previous 'accurate after the fact' events, posts, sales, etc. That's not excusing the failure (which has long since stopped being 'excusable'). It's just reminding anyone who actually thought this sale would include bundles that virtually none of 'Everything' Mudd sales have. Not unless it says so explicitly.

    Now, in that someone's defense, we don't know what he was told about this sale. It is easily possible he relayed to us 'accurate to what he was told' information, and the people who set up the sale didn't inform him of the caveat about bundles not being included. It might have been a simple misunderstanding in how the sale information was worded, where it seemed as though the sales people meant 'everything' but did not. Or it could be exactly what everyone here is already thinking, and he copy-paste failed. Again.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited October 2021
    It's really strange how some people want to try to justify/defend/etc this. The words "entire market" are pretty self explanatory. If that's not actually the case, those words shouldn't be used, period. Saying how things normally are, or were in the past, doesn't really matter.

    Totally agreed.

    The only thing worse then Cryptic's constant false advertising is the way some just dismiss or even excuse it.

    As I said above, we *KNOW* someone routinely does copy-paste fail-posts that omits important details or includes incorrect or misleading information. So the only thing we *CAN* rely on is what is *CONSISTENT* with previous 'accurate after the fact' events, posts, sales, etc. That's not excusing the failure (which has long since stopped being 'excusable'). It's just reminding anyone who actually thought this sale would include bundles that virtually none of 'Everything' Mudd sales have. Not unless it says so explicitly.

    Now, in that someone's defense, we don't know what he was told about this sale. It is easily possible he relayed to us 'accurate to what he was told' information, and the people who set up the sale didn't inform him of the caveat about bundles not being included. It might have been a simple misunderstanding in how the sale information was worded, where it seemed as though the sales people meant 'everything' but did not. Or it could be exactly what everyone here is already thinking, and he copy-paste failed. Again.

    With all do respect.. irrelevant.

    Customers should not have to rely on past data in order to interpret what is said to them. If you advertise that everything in a certain section is on sale, then every single thing in that section should be on sale.. it's really just that simple. For other games, this is not an issue, Star Trek Online is the only game I play where when they announce a sale or promotion, I have to spend time doing research on various sites to interpret what they mean and that's completely ridiculous.

    As for the person at fault, I don't claim to know who that is. As you said, the person that gave us the news could have received bad information themselves or they could have relayed it improperly.. that I don't know. What I do know is that Cryptic as a studio needs to do a better job overall making communication with the player base a priority.

    When you say something is on sale, and then try to charge full price for it that is false advertising and unfair to your customers. In all honestly, I couldn't care less who behind the curtain is at fault, but whomever it was needs to do a better job.
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  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 3,022 Arc User
    People probably jinxed it when they were talking about it being the best time to get it.
  • kuraitsukaikuraitsukai Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    What I find annoying about this is it's a violation of FTC rules. Cryptic needs to clarify these things, and frankly you'd think their legal department would be on point with this. By omitting the bundles which are clearly part of Mudd's Market they're misleading consumers.

    "The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to: mislead consumers and affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service. In addition, an act or practice is unfair if the injury it causes or is likely to cause, is: substantial, not outweighed by other benefits and not reasonably avoidable.

    The FTC Act prohibits unfair or deceptive advertising in any medium. That is, advertising must tell the truth and not mislead consumers. A claim can be misleading if relevant information is left out or if the claim implies something that's not true."

    But who knows, maybe there's some loophole they're able to jump through on this... just food for thought.

    I've been hoping the Into Darkness and Beyond choice pack was going to go on sale, and to find out they said one thing and did another has left me more than just a little disappointed to say the least.

    do it, go after them. maybe someone can look into their gambling practices too. i'd be really interested to know if Cryptic has a gambling license.​​

    It would take more than just a single player to really have an impact. With that said people need to keep in mind that there are very specific laws in place about these things. All it takes with something like this is going to the FTC website and filing a complaint. That's it. I get complaining but if you have the power to do something about it then use it. I shared what I did for the user base and for everyone to know they have a mechanism to use if they so choose to use it.
  • kuraitsukaikuraitsukai Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    westmetals wrote: »
    What I find annoying about this is it's a violation of FTC rules. Cryptic needs to clarify these things, and frankly you'd think their legal department would be on point with this. By omitting the bundles which are clearly part of Mudd's Market they're misleading consumers.

    "The Federal Trade Commission Act allows the FTC to act in the interest of all consumers to prevent deceptive and unfair acts or practices. In interpreting Section 5 of the Act, the Commission has determined that a representation, omission or practice is deceptive if it is likely to: mislead consumers and affect consumers' behavior or decisions about the product or service. In addition, an act or practice is unfair if the injury it causes or is likely to cause, is: substantial, not outweighed by other benefits and not reasonably avoidable.

    The FTC Act prohibits unfair or deceptive advertising in any medium. That is, advertising must tell the truth and not mislead consumers. A claim can be misleading if relevant information is left out or if the claim implies something that's not true."

    But who knows, maybe there's some loophole they're able to jump through on this... just food for thought.

    I've been hoping the Into Darkness and Beyond choice pack was going to go on sale, and to find out they said one thing and did another has left me more than just a little disappointed to say the least.

    They stealth-edited the blog, and didn't change the timestamp, so now it looks like it said what it says all along. And it now says bundles are excluded.

    I noticed, though plenty of players did grab a screenshot of the original blog before they edited it. Even then you could probably inspect the page and find the time of the edit. Backend of the system logs when changes are made whether the front facing timestamp changes or not.
  • n0vastaronen0vastarone Member Posts: 303 Arc User
    it's just scummy but im less and less surprised by Kael and his croonies.

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