anyone else sense a terrible work ethic at cryptic? its like a running joke anymore about how things require work...
I think that was a bad/wrong answer, as everything requires work to maintain. I think the real/right answer is the people that actually knew how the foundry worked and maintained it were no longer with the company and for that reason they could no longer support it (not just in this game, but also in Neverwinter).
oh i agree it was a bad answer and way to present it, but look at a lot of the other bullet points...many reflect the same type of central wording that if it requires work, it sits...
i mean...how long have many bugs been around that they just dont care to fix? we all get that money makes the server stay on and pays bills, but lets not be fooled they just dont want to do certain things, and the excuse is "it takes work."
Kael stated in a previous live stream that there are only 2 people doing the programing for Star Trek Online. These are the developers of course, there are other people doing the art and stuff like that, but as for maintaining things and introducing new systems and elements, there are 2 people that do all of it.
There was some debate as to rather or not that's normal or not, I maintain that it's less then a skeleton crew for an ongoing and continually developed MMO. It's a fine amount for game that just gets a DLC or 2 every year, but for an MMO there are indy projects on Kickstarter with larger development teams then what Cryptic has devoted to Star Trek Online.
To Cryptic's credit, they get a lot accomplished given the size of their studio, I am sure those two people work very hard and their efforts are to be applauded. Still, I find it a touch annoying that we hear on a constant basis how STO is more profitable now then ever, but the size of the team behind the game does not seem to grow. 'We don't have time' is a continuing theme and one that while I understand it, it's frustrating. I don't blame the Cryptic team for this, but I am not terribly confident in the executives that run the studio. It sounds like they could really use some help and they're not getting it. In the end, the game sadly suffers for it.
As a note, I understand that all MMO teams regardless of size are struggling to manage time, there is always a ton to do on games like this and there are never enough people to do it even for very large studios. Still, 2 active developers just seems like far too few for a game of this size and scope.
Still, 2 active developers just seems like far too few for a game of this size and scope.
Especially when they keep talking about how the game is having it's "best year ever" multiple years. Or maybe the minimal staff cost is part of why it's more profitable? Good questions, but not ones we are likely to get answers to.
If they think using a skeleton crew that’s maintaining the game in its current state is a “success”, then I think it’s time they think about selling it to a studio that’s going to make some real improvements because this ain’t it. Every time I read something from someone associated with them, it’s becoming apparent to me that as long as they have the “do less while expecting more” attitude, nothing will ever change. As a fan of pre-JJ Trek, it sucks (not bashing anything just my preference of shows/timelines/characters/etc). If someone came up with a similar game (with or without the IP), I’m sure many would have left a long time ago. But they know this isn’t the case so they can push the substandardness that they have been giving and blame everything and everyone but themselves. Either a housecleaning or sale is the only thing that will truly take this game forward instead of the “stuck in neutral with no care to move forward” lackadaisicalness that’s currently served up to the players that they expect to take it with a smile. Poo is still poo no matter how much sugar and honey you stir in it.
anyone else sense a terrible work ethic at cryptic? its like a running joke anymore about how things require work...
I think that was a bad/wrong answer, as everything requires work to maintain. I think the real/right answer is the people that actually knew how the foundry worked and maintained it were no longer with the company and for that reason they could no longer support it (not just in this game, but also in Neverwinter).
oh i agree it was a bad answer and way to present it, but look at a lot of the other bullet points...many reflect the same type of central wording that if it requires work, it sits...
i mean...how long have many bugs been around that they just dont care to fix? we all get that money makes the server stay on and pays bills, but lets not be fooled they just dont want to do certain things, and the excuse is "it takes work."
Kael stated in a previous live stream that there are only 2 people doing the programing for Star Trek Online. These are the developers of course, there are other people doing the art and stuff like that, but as for maintaining things and introducing new systems and elements, there are 2 people that do all of it.
There was some debate as to rather or not that's normal or not, I maintain that it's less then a skeleton crew for an ongoing and continually developed MMO. It's a fine amount for game that just gets a DLC or 2 every year, but for an MMO there are indy projects on Kickstarter with larger development teams then what Cryptic has devoted to Star Trek Online.
To Cryptic's credit, they get a lot accomplished given the size of their studio, I am sure those two people work very hard and their efforts are to be applauded. Still, I find it a touch annoying that we hear on a constant basis how STO is more profitable now then ever, but the size of the team behind the game does not seem to grow. 'We don't have time' is a continuing theme and one that while I understand it, it's frustrating. I don't blame the Cryptic team for this, but I am not terribly confident in the executives that run the studio. It sounds like they could really use some help and they're not getting it. In the end, the game sadly suffers for it.
As a note, I understand that all MMO teams regardless of size are struggling to manage time, there is always a ton to do on games like this and there are never enough people to do it even for very large studios. Still, 2 active developers just seems like far too few for a game of this size and scope.
I would say that there are two problems here. One Cryptic is based in California with notoriously high cost of living issues and taxes. How much would they save by moving to Texas or another pro business state?
Two, the manpower issue is time and again evidence that there is not any reinvestment into the company. So either they are surviving on thin profit margins, or their profits are not going to expand and add more developers to do more things for the game, they seem to simply pay X amount of devs to do as much as they can while the profit goes into PWE pockets or whomever.
From what I've read on Reddit, Kael stated that they don't release as many C-store ships because they don't sell well.
That's an.... interesting...statement.
...What. Okay, maybe I'm not in the game enough to see a truly representative sample, but even now the majority of ships I see are C-store. Which is what you'd expect, really, since those are the ones actually accessible to the average player who doesn't have hundreds of [insert local currency here] to throw at a game.
"Interesting" is the word for that statement, yes.
From what I've read on Reddit, Kael stated that they don't release as many C-store ships because they don't sell well.
That's an.... interesting...statement.
...What. Okay, maybe I'm not in the game enough to see a truly representative sample, but even now the majority of ships I see are C-store. Which is what you'd expect, really, since those are the ones actually accessible to the average player who doesn't have hundreds of [insert local currency here] to throw at a game.
You'd think that makes sense, yes, but not really. People want exotic/fancy ships (especially if they have to pay for them). Why pay for a mundane ship? Like I want shoes from Gucci, not from Walmart.
From what I've read on Reddit, Kael stated that they don't release as many C-store ships because they don't sell well.
That's an.... interesting...statement.
...What. Okay, maybe I'm not in the game enough to see a truly representative sample, but even now the majority of ships I see are C-store. Which is what you'd expect, really, since those are the ones actually accessible to the average player who doesn't have hundreds of [insert local currency here] to throw at a game.
"Interesting" is the word for that statement, yes.
The sample size you're seeing is accurate.
C-Store ships are the dominant type of ships that you will see just playing the game.
The Lockbox/Promo ships are the money maker.
Simply put, the Promo and lock box ships cost so much that the volume of C-Store ships isn't anywhere close to making up the difference. There is a very small percentage of the player base that spends the bulk of the money. These guys spend thousands on these ships, there are whales that have to have every new thing and will pay to get it. You see someone flying a C-Store ship, they paid at most $30USD for it. They more then likely bought it on sale or used a coupon from a giveaway event, but the most they spent is $30 (Assuming it's not a legendary.) Every 10 players you see is $300 assuming they paid full price.. one whale drops that much and more on a single ship and some of them collect every ship. One Whale can equal or exceed literally hundreds of casual players for revenue.
One thing has become clear over the last few years, the 'everyday' player is not the target in STO. Lockbox, Promo and Legendary Bundles have pushed the focus squarely to the biggest spenders and that's where they will continue to focus. 'Regular' players are still important, they are needed because the Whales won't spend if they don't have anyone to lord their acquisitions over so the common player still has significance. If however, they are going to take the time to develop a ship, they would rather make a promo ship then a C-Store ship.
Volume wise, C-Store ships will continue to be what you see the most. Whale bait ships will continue to be the cash cow.
What's missing from this equation is what happens when there aren't enough of the 'average players' present in the game -- the whales lose interest and move on to something else. It's been shown many, many times, that free-to-play online games might be largely funded by its whales, but you can't keep whales around without a large enough population to make spending on the game feel 'worth it' to those whales. And STO is veering into dangerous territory for the retention of 'average players' these days.
Very true, which is why I covered it in my original post.
This is why we get the token number of C-Store releases every year. They do it to keep enough 'casual' players invested to give the Whales someone to show off to. The focus though has clearly shifted in recent years to high dollar 'big ticket' items that the average player has little to no chance to obtain.
Many players even suggested higher C-Store prices if it gets rid of gamble boxes.. Cryptic instead.. just did both. The Gamble boxes are still here but now we have $300 packs in the C-Store.
anyone else sense a terrible work ethic at cryptic? its like a running joke anymore about how things require work...
I think that was a bad/wrong answer, as everything requires work to maintain. I think the real/right answer is the people that actually knew how the foundry worked and maintained it were no longer with the company and for that reason they could no longer support it (not just in this game, but also in Neverwinter).
oh i agree it was a bad answer and way to present it, but look at a lot of the other bullet points...many reflect the same type of central wording that if it requires work, it sits...
i mean...how long have many bugs been around that they just dont care to fix? we all get that money makes the server stay on and pays bills, but lets not be fooled they just dont want to do certain things, and the excuse is "it takes work."
Kael stated in a previous live stream that there are only 2 people doing the programing for Star Trek Online. These are the developers of course, there are other people doing the art and stuff like that, but as for maintaining things and introducing new systems and elements, there are 2 people that do all of it.
There was some debate as to rather or not that's normal or not, I maintain that it's less then a skeleton crew for an ongoing and continually developed MMO. It's a fine amount for game that just gets a DLC or 2 every year, but for an MMO there are indy projects on Kickstarter with larger development teams then what Cryptic has devoted to Star Trek Online.
To Cryptic's credit, they get a lot accomplished given the size of their studio, I am sure those two people work very hard and their efforts are to be applauded. Still, I find it a touch annoying that we hear on a constant basis how STO is more profitable now then ever, but the size of the team behind the game does not seem to grow. 'We don't have time' is a continuing theme and one that while I understand it, it's frustrating. I don't blame the Cryptic team for this, but I am not terribly confident in the executives that run the studio. It sounds like they could really use some help and they're not getting it. In the end, the game sadly suffers for it.
As a note, I understand that all MMO teams regardless of size are struggling to manage time, there is always a ton to do on games like this and there are never enough people to do it even for very large studios. Still, 2 active developers just seems like far too few for a game of this size and scope.
I would say that there are two problems here. One Cryptic is based in California with notoriously high cost of living issues and taxes. How much would they save by moving to Texas or another pro business state?
Two, the manpower issue is time and again evidence that there is not any reinvestment into the company. So either they are surviving on thin profit margins, or their profits are not going to expand and add more developers to do more things for the game, they seem to simply pay X amount of devs to do as much as they can while the profit goes into PWE pockets or whomever.
Kael didn't say they only have two developers, he said they only have two programmers. What he had to have meant (in his usual poorly worded style) is that they only have two devs who code since in livestream they have shown a lot more than just two devs (especially 3D artists and story people) who are just as much devs as the programmers, the main difference is that they work with artwork, modeling, and scripting tools or database management tools rather than code editors and compilers.
There is a lot more to developing and maintaining an MMO than just slinging code, there are a number of good videos on YouTube on the subject, including several whole courses, if you are curious.
As for the California thing, moving to Texas would probably not help since California tends to be friendlier to both the entertainment industry and computer industry than a lot of other states (like Texas), and in this case headquartering in California has the added advantage of being relatively close to the CBS-Viacom offices in Burbank and LA whereas Texas is about as far as you can get from any of the CBS-Viacom offices in the US lower 48.
There is a lot more to developing and maintaining an MMO than just slinging code, there are a number of good videos on YouTube on the subject, including several whole courses if you are curious.
do you have links?
thank you in advance, yes, i'm curious
> @thegrandnagus1 said: > I have a feeling* Kael is just giving a really bad explanation of (the thing in question) not meeting their return on investment threshold. In some cases they may actually want to do something (like make more bridges) but because they don't sell enough to justify they development cost, they don't.
I don’t think it is a question of meeting the development cost. Even if a bridge takes “as much time as a ship” That is still about 3,000 man hours at 30$ or so an hour—you only need to sell 3,000 over the life of the game to recoup the cost. That is a low threshold.
The problem is you could make a bridge, a c-store ship, or say a Ledgendary Constellation class. And we know which of those options will likely make the company way more money over the life of the game.
Kael didn't say they only have two developers, he said they only have two programmers.
I am honestly not interested in debating terminology, Kael's example was pretty clear. He talked about adding or implementing a new system or feature into the game and talked about how there are 2 people that do that and one would have to be tasked to that specifically. I don't remember if he specifically said 'programmer' or 'developer' and it honestly doesn't matter. The programmers are part of the development team, and the example was clear.
I'll give them credit, I don't envy those guys.. that's a lot of work for 2 people to do.
The problem is you could make a bridge, a c-store ship, or say a Ledgendary Constellation class. And we know which of those options will likely make the company way more money over the life of the game.
The people that make ships are not the same people that make environment maps (which is what a bridge is) so that comparison makes no sense.
Back to my actual point: bridges sell very poorly, so they don't make them. It's not about them not "wanting to do the work", it's about bridges not justifying the work.
Instead, they use their environment artists to do things like episodes/TFOs that actually get people to log in. Even though those aren't sold directly, when people log in they are more likely to buy things, so episodes/TFOs serve the purpose of bringing the customer to the "store"(which is what this game actually is) so hopefully they will buy something while they are here.
That’s a good point. But as you imply environment artists currently make nothing that is offered for sale—only things to “draw you into the game.”
Let’s put it another way: you can hire a ship artist that will make you money or an environmental artist that makes you no money. Ship-hoursare still going to win out over environmental-hours regardless of how you frame the conversation.
There is a lot more to developing and maintaining an MMO than just slinging code, there are a number of good videos on YouTube on the subject, including several whole courses if you are curious.
do you have links?
thank you in advance, yes, i'm curious
The ones from Jason Weimann are good though a bit long and chaotic, and mostly from a programmer point of view (which is why I started watching them a wile ago). The more technical ones in the series are for a more modern engine (Unity) but these two are more general give the overall idea, and this one goes into depth on the differences between two of the main dev jobs (programmer and designer) and some of their subspecialties: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_7qgvNOTfdQ
As Weimann says at the end of the video he probably missed a job or two, and database management is one he did not go into as a specific thing (a lot of times it is split between the designer and programmer roles instead of being a separate thing) which is an important job because it impacts game responsiveness quite a bit. Hints in what Kael and others say in the livestreams and posts seem to indicate that most of the rubberbanding was caused by database lookup issues for instance (ESO had similar database problems that necessitated a major effort to clear up about a year or two ago).
At this point so much of the backend work is already done that two programmers are probably kept quite busy but it is not an alarmingly low number either. Most of the new content work is done by the artists and designers, the programmers are mainly needed for systems that are totally new, working on bugs that can be traced to code instead of scripts, and polishing up the engine with new videocard features.
That’s a good point. But as you imply environment artists currently make nothing that is offered for sale—only things to “draw you into the game.”
Let’s put it another way: you can hire a ship artist that will make you money or an environmental artist that makes you no money. Ship-hoursare still going to win out over environmental-hours regardless of how you frame the conversation.
aside from the fact there is little to do, due to lack of thought and imagination in using them, on a bridge, sure. but players have asked for bridges and interiors that can alter with the person to a degree.
stop with legendary BS already and do some other stuff. the game wont falter if we dont see a legendary ship for 6 months or more.
I actually would have been cool with the Legendary Bloat bundles if they replaced Loot Boxes and gamble mechanics. Instead, they just added expensive bundles while still keeping the gamble boxes.
As much as I hate to admit it, I understand why they don't do bridges anymore. I don't like it, but I get it. I just wish that I could use bridges I already have on any ship.
That’s a good point. But as you imply environment artists currently make nothing that is offered for sale—only things to “draw you into the game.”
Let’s put it another way: you can hire a ship artist that will make you money or an environmental artist that makes you no money. Ship-hoursare still going to win out over environmental-hours regardless of how you frame the conversation.
aside from the fact there is little to do, due to lack of thought and imagination in using them, on a bridge, sure. but players have asked for bridges and interiors that can alter with the person to a degree.
stop with legendary BS already and do some other stuff. the game wont falter if we dont see a legendary ship for 6 months or more.
I actually would have been cool with the Legendary Bloat bundles if they replaced Loot Boxes and gamble mechanics. Instead, they just added expensive bundles while still keeping the gamble boxes.
As much as I hate to admit it, I understand why they don't do bridges anymore. I don't like it, but I get it. I just wish that I could use bridges I already have on any ship.
That's the thing, though: they don't do bridges anymore because they were half-assed to begin with and so people stopped paying for them. So, while I understand why they don't get made anymore, the blame is certainly not on us.
I don't expect to have a full housing system, but imagine how different things would be if they'd allowed us to customize our own quarters. Not even the proper bridge, just a room that would not appear in any cutscene and, as such, would bypass any and all excuses about how "we can't possibly account for every variation people make on the bridge to show each player the proper combination".
But alas, we all know that THAT would not bring them any money - unless they started selling freaking decorations, like every other MMO out there, in which case they'd be all over it in a second - and so we have half-assed bridges and interiors.
That said, the idea that I cannot use any bridge I have unlocked on my ship, regardless of what ship that actually is, makes no sense to me and all the reasoning about how "eh, but the bridge would not go with the ship you've chosen because it's too big/too small" are a moot point, since the ship's interior don't exist unless we go in there.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Their metrics are skewed. We all know this. The bigger issue will always be this: how do you make it work to your advantage? How do you get them to directly/indirectly give you what you want? Unfortunately, as long as the big ticket stuff sells like it does then the smaller things will never be implemented (unless they feel it’s going to generate enough in sales to justify cost).
Holographic officers like the Doctor and Geordi being editable was a mistake, but they don't want to take that away. No plans to make other holographic officers editable
Weeeeaaaaaak.
Eisenberg class is being made, but no news besides that
Me: Please, be a lobi ship, please be a lobi ship...
As far as Kael is aware, the Eisenberg isn't a lockbox ship. But it could change
Nvm, it's definitely gonna be a lockbox or R&D promo ship.
More stuff coming to Mudd's store next week
Having used the event campaign ship pack to get the S31 dread, I swear to the Black Mountain, if it's a S31 Mudd pack...
The Mirror Universe weapons that were given away not being upgradeable might be on purpose, but Kael will ask
RIIIIIIIIGHT... Could we stop the blatant lies, please?
The idea behind adding T6 to existing reps was to cut down how much time/cost it took to make them. It actually took longer/cost more
NOOOOO? When they saw the number of XP required for Tier VI being higher than the rest of the tiers combined, they didn't even realize it?
Borticus says a hypothetical T7 rep update would probably take as much time as making a new rep. Tier updates get harder the more reps they have
Good, now Bort, kindly forget about this idea and never think about it ever again. I don't want to grind for 1,000,000XP or something.
Non humanoid BOFFs is something Cryptic is interested in. Lots of technical challenges involving animations. Would probably have limited skill set
Yes! I don't care about having limitations, I want Boff to have their own unique stuff as long as they're on par with existing Boffs (I know it's a low bar, considering of stupid the AI is,, but better than nothing)
Kael wont know what we are talking about regarding a Halloween event until next Tuesday(sarcasm on his part about not knowing)
Pointing out it's sarcasm was important, considering his history in not knowing about important issues for weeks, like the current shuttle bug.
No immediate plans for more Kelvin stuff
Well, we did get most of the more visible stuff already outside of background ships, so it's understandable.
Next on Cryptic's list to update is likely the removed Federation Klingon war missions. Though Kael agrees the Breen arc needs a revamp
Yes, finally!
Ground vehicles are unlikely due to maps not being designed for them
You can do like what a certain game about space ninjas did with mini-mechs: restrict them to specific events and big open world maps.
Eisenberg class is being made, but no news besides that
Me: Please, be a lobi ship, please be a lobi ship...
As far as Kael is aware, the Eisenberg isn't a lockbox ship. But it could change
Nvm, it's definitely gonna be a lockbox or R&D promo ship.
I always assumed it was going to be in a gamblebox, Kael's comments last week were the first thing to make me even consider the possibility that it would be available some other way. I wonder if it'll end up being the Winter event ship since they apparently don't feel a lockbox would be the right thing to do?
Having used the event campaign ship pack to get the S31 dread, I swear to the Black Mountain, if it's a S31 Mudd pack...
His statement about things coming to Mudd's was in response to a question about another Mudd bundle, and it sounded to me like that is not what's coming this week. At this point we are over-due for a new bundle though, they've been on a fairly reliable 3-month release schedule since they started doing them.
The idea behind adding T6 to existing reps was to cut down how much time/cost it took to make them. It actually took longer/cost more
NOOOOO? When they saw the number of XP required for Tier VI being higher than the rest of the tiers combined, they didn't even realize it?
Kael and Bort were not talking about the amount of time it takes a player to do it, they were talking about the development time involved in building it. They expected adding a sixth tier to existing reps to be a straightforward, quick and easy process but it ended up taking longer than it would have to just build a new rep.
The idea behind adding T6 to existing reps was to cut down how much time/cost it took to make them. It actually took longer/cost more
NOOOOO? When they saw the number of XP required for Tier VI being higher than the rest of the tiers combined, they didn't even realize it?
Kael and Bort were not talking about the amount of time it takes a player to do it, they were talking about the development time involved in building it. They expected adding a sixth tier to existing reps to be a straightforward, quick and easy process but it ended up taking longer than it would have to just build a new rep.
Ah, so it was only all on their end, gotcha, misread that.
Which is even better knowing they struggled more than we did.
I'm gonna take a guess and imagine they realized they had to do it for each individual reputation at the time and forgot they now have given us 13 of them.
Comments
Kael stated in a previous live stream that there are only 2 people doing the programing for Star Trek Online. These are the developers of course, there are other people doing the art and stuff like that, but as for maintaining things and introducing new systems and elements, there are 2 people that do all of it.
There was some debate as to rather or not that's normal or not, I maintain that it's less then a skeleton crew for an ongoing and continually developed MMO. It's a fine amount for game that just gets a DLC or 2 every year, but for an MMO there are indy projects on Kickstarter with larger development teams then what Cryptic has devoted to Star Trek Online.
To Cryptic's credit, they get a lot accomplished given the size of their studio, I am sure those two people work very hard and their efforts are to be applauded. Still, I find it a touch annoying that we hear on a constant basis how STO is more profitable now then ever, but the size of the team behind the game does not seem to grow. 'We don't have time' is a continuing theme and one that while I understand it, it's frustrating. I don't blame the Cryptic team for this, but I am not terribly confident in the executives that run the studio. It sounds like they could really use some help and they're not getting it. In the end, the game sadly suffers for it.
As a note, I understand that all MMO teams regardless of size are struggling to manage time, there is always a ton to do on games like this and there are never enough people to do it even for very large studios. Still, 2 active developers just seems like far too few for a game of this size and scope.
Especially when they keep talking about how the game is having it's "best year ever" multiple years. Or maybe the minimal staff cost is part of why it's more profitable? Good questions, but not ones we are likely to get answers to.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
I would say that there are two problems here. One Cryptic is based in California with notoriously high cost of living issues and taxes. How much would they save by moving to Texas or another pro business state?
Two, the manpower issue is time and again evidence that there is not any reinvestment into the company. So either they are surviving on thin profit margins, or their profits are not going to expand and add more developers to do more things for the game, they seem to simply pay X amount of devs to do as much as they can while the profit goes into PWE pockets or whomever.
...What. Okay, maybe I'm not in the game enough to see a truly representative sample, but even now the majority of ships I see are C-store. Which is what you'd expect, really, since those are the ones actually accessible to the average player who doesn't have hundreds of [insert local currency here] to throw at a game.
"Interesting" is the word for that statement, yes.
You'd think that makes sense, yes, but not really. People want exotic/fancy ships (especially if they have to pay for them). Why pay for a mundane ship? Like I want shoes from Gucci, not from Walmart.
The sample size you're seeing is accurate.
C-Store ships are the dominant type of ships that you will see just playing the game.
The Lockbox/Promo ships are the money maker.
Simply put, the Promo and lock box ships cost so much that the volume of C-Store ships isn't anywhere close to making up the difference. There is a very small percentage of the player base that spends the bulk of the money. These guys spend thousands on these ships, there are whales that have to have every new thing and will pay to get it. You see someone flying a C-Store ship, they paid at most $30USD for it. They more then likely bought it on sale or used a coupon from a giveaway event, but the most they spent is $30 (Assuming it's not a legendary.) Every 10 players you see is $300 assuming they paid full price.. one whale drops that much and more on a single ship and some of them collect every ship. One Whale can equal or exceed literally hundreds of casual players for revenue.
One thing has become clear over the last few years, the 'everyday' player is not the target in STO. Lockbox, Promo and Legendary Bundles have pushed the focus squarely to the biggest spenders and that's where they will continue to focus. 'Regular' players are still important, they are needed because the Whales won't spend if they don't have anyone to lord their acquisitions over so the common player still has significance. If however, they are going to take the time to develop a ship, they would rather make a promo ship then a C-Store ship.
Volume wise, C-Store ships will continue to be what you see the most. Whale bait ships will continue to be the cash cow.
Very true, which is why I covered it in my original post.
This is why we get the token number of C-Store releases every year. They do it to keep enough 'casual' players invested to give the Whales someone to show off to. The focus though has clearly shifted in recent years to high dollar 'big ticket' items that the average player has little to no chance to obtain.
Many players even suggested higher C-Store prices if it gets rid of gamble boxes.. Cryptic instead.. just did both. The Gamble boxes are still here but now we have $300 packs in the C-Store.
Yeah.. thanks guys.
Kael didn't say they only have two developers, he said they only have two programmers. What he had to have meant (in his usual poorly worded style) is that they only have two devs who code since in livestream they have shown a lot more than just two devs (especially 3D artists and story people) who are just as much devs as the programmers, the main difference is that they work with artwork, modeling, and scripting tools or database management tools rather than code editors and compilers.
There is a lot more to developing and maintaining an MMO than just slinging code, there are a number of good videos on YouTube on the subject, including several whole courses, if you are curious.
As for the California thing, moving to Texas would probably not help since California tends to be friendlier to both the entertainment industry and computer industry than a lot of other states (like Texas), and in this case headquartering in California has the added advantage of being relatively close to the CBS-Viacom offices in Burbank and LA whereas Texas is about as far as you can get from any of the CBS-Viacom offices in the US lower 48.
do you have links?
thank you in advance, yes, i'm curious
> I have a feeling* Kael is just giving a really bad explanation of (the thing in question) not meeting their return on investment threshold. In some cases they may actually want to do something (like make more bridges) but because they don't sell enough to justify they development cost, they don't.
I don’t think it is a question of meeting the development cost. Even if a bridge takes “as much time as a ship” That is still about 3,000 man hours at 30$ or so an hour—you only need to sell 3,000 over the life of the game to recoup the cost. That is a low threshold.
The problem is you could make a bridge, a c-store ship, or say a Ledgendary Constellation class. And we know which of those options will likely make the company way more money over the life of the game.
I am honestly not interested in debating terminology, Kael's example was pretty clear. He talked about adding or implementing a new system or feature into the game and talked about how there are 2 people that do that and one would have to be tasked to that specifically. I don't remember if he specifically said 'programmer' or 'developer' and it honestly doesn't matter. The programmers are part of the development team, and the example was clear.
I'll give them credit, I don't envy those guys.. that's a lot of work for 2 people to do.
The people that make ships are not the same people that make environment maps (which is what a bridge is) so that comparison makes no sense.
Back to my actual point: bridges sell very poorly, so they don't make them. It's not about them not "wanting to do the work", it's about bridges not justifying the work.
Instead, they use their environment artists to do things like episodes/TFOs that actually get people to log in. Even though those aren't sold directly, when people log in they are more likely to buy things, so episodes/TFOs serve the purpose of bringing the customer to the "store"(which is what this game actually is) so hopefully they will buy something while they are here.
The-Grand-Nagus
Join Date: Sep 2008
Let’s put it another way: you can hire a ship artist that will make you money or an environmental artist that makes you no money. Ship-hoursare still going to win out over environmental-hours regardless of how you frame the conversation.
The ones from Jason Weimann are good though a bit long and chaotic, and mostly from a programmer point of view (which is why I started watching them a wile ago). The more technical ones in the series are for a more modern engine (Unity) but these two are more general give the overall idea, and this one goes into depth on the differences between two of the main dev jobs (programmer and designer) and some of their subspecialties:
This one gives a broader overview but is also rather long (even longer than the first one):
As Weimann says at the end of the video he probably missed a job or two, and database management is one he did not go into as a specific thing (a lot of times it is split between the designer and programmer roles instead of being a separate thing) which is an important job because it impacts game responsiveness quite a bit. Hints in what Kael and others say in the livestreams and posts seem to indicate that most of the rubberbanding was caused by database lookup issues for instance (ESO had similar database problems that necessitated a major effort to clear up about a year or two ago).
At this point so much of the backend work is already done that two programmers are probably kept quite busy but it is not an alarmingly low number either. Most of the new content work is done by the artists and designers, the programmers are mainly needed for systems that are totally new, working on bugs that can be traced to code instead of scripts, and polishing up the engine with new videocard features.
I actually would have been cool with the Legendary Bloat bundles if they replaced Loot Boxes and gamble mechanics. Instead, they just added expensive bundles while still keeping the gamble boxes.
As much as I hate to admit it, I understand why they don't do bridges anymore. I don't like it, but I get it. I just wish that I could use bridges I already have on any ship.
That's the thing, though: they don't do bridges anymore because they were half-assed to begin with and so people stopped paying for them. So, while I understand why they don't get made anymore, the blame is certainly not on us.
I don't expect to have a full housing system, but imagine how different things would be if they'd allowed us to customize our own quarters. Not even the proper bridge, just a room that would not appear in any cutscene and, as such, would bypass any and all excuses about how "we can't possibly account for every variation people make on the bridge to show each player the proper combination".
But alas, we all know that THAT would not bring them any money - unless they started selling freaking decorations, like every other MMO out there, in which case they'd be all over it in a second - and so we have half-assed bridges and interiors.
That said, the idea that I cannot use any bridge I have unlocked on my ship, regardless of what ship that actually is, makes no sense to me and all the reasoning about how "eh, but the bridge would not go with the ship you've chosen because it's too big/too small" are a moot point, since the ship's interior don't exist unless we go in there.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Me: Please, be a lobi ship, please be a lobi ship...
Nvm, it's definitely gonna be a lockbox or R&D promo ship.
Having used the event campaign ship pack to get the S31 dread, I swear to the Black Mountain, if it's a S31 Mudd pack... RIIIIIIIIGHT... Could we stop the blatant lies, please?
NOOOOO? When they saw the number of XP required for Tier VI being higher than the rest of the tiers combined, they didn't even realize it?
Good, now Bort, kindly forget about this idea and never think about it ever again. I don't want to grind for 1,000,000XP or something.
Yes! I don't care about having limitations, I want Boff to have their own unique stuff as long as they're on par with existing Boffs (I know it's a low bar, considering of stupid the AI is,, but better than nothing)
Pointing out it's sarcasm was important, considering his history in not knowing about important issues for weeks, like the current shuttle bug.
Well, we did get most of the more visible stuff already outside of background ships, so it's understandable.
Yes, finally!
You can do like what a certain game about space ninjas did with mini-mechs: restrict them to specific events and big open world maps.
I always assumed it was going to be in a gamblebox, Kael's comments last week were the first thing to make me even consider the possibility that it would be available some other way. I wonder if it'll end up being the Winter event ship since they apparently don't feel a lockbox would be the right thing to do?
His statement about things coming to Mudd's was in response to a question about another Mudd bundle, and it sounded to me like that is not what's coming this week. At this point we are over-due for a new bundle though, they've been on a fairly reliable 3-month release schedule since they started doing them.
Kael and Bort were not talking about the amount of time it takes a player to do it, they were talking about the development time involved in building it. They expected adding a sixth tier to existing reps to be a straightforward, quick and easy process but it ended up taking longer than it would have to just build a new rep.
Which is even better knowing they struggled more than we did.
I'm gonna take a guess and imagine they realized they had to do it for each individual reputation at the time and forgot they now have given us 13 of them.
Sowing, reaping, that kind of stuff.