Cryptic has said in the past that negative reaction to missions like "Renegades Regret" have shown most people don't want to do the kinds of things an "evil" character like a Terran would do.
I don't care what the crybabies want, I'm am perfectly willing to spend my earnings on more content like that, just let me blow up planets for fun, I could start protesting like LetmeplayaChangeling on DS9.
I just saw some new Terran Empire goodies at the Tailor's which I hadn't noticed since before the update. Belts and more daggers, for example. Daggers for each arm, and for one hip, as well as 4 new belts, IIRC.
Would a playable Terran actually be any fun though? I mean, the Mirror Universe itself is great...everyone's TRIBBLE, bisexual and a tramp; they get to dress as sleazily as they like, in catsuits, sports bras and daisy dukes and being naughty is the norm!
I just don't see us being able to have THAT much fun...prove me wrong! The Mirror "sadomasochism" Arc, with all the trimmings would certainly liven things up.
You must have missed Thay's wonderful Mirror Wars when the Foundry was here. Two different Mirror Universe Timelines messing with each other AND the Feds! That and Star Trek Continues were 2 of my favourite Foundry series, and I miss them both!
Cryptic has said in the past that negative reaction to missions like "Renegades Regret" have shown most people don't want to do the kinds of things an "evil" character like a Terran would do.
How much of that negative reaction actually was the idea of wiping out planets full of life, and how much of that was the fact that Renegade's Regret is buggy as hell? (Especially in the space phases.) If people were so hell-bent against playing "bad guys", no one would play Chaos in the Warhammer games. Or Crypto in "Destroy All Humans". Or Sith or Dark Jedi (or Imperials, for that matter) in any Star Wars game.
Me, personally, I like playing villains. But to each their own.
My issue with Renegade's Regret wasn't the evil actions (heck, I would LOVE to have my character grab a Tzenkethi Protomatter bomb...and Transwarp straight to Kobali Prime to launch it. THOSE grave-robbing, brain-washing, necrophiliac, purple ghouls DESERVE to be on the receiving end of genocide. Helping those creeps was the evil action that crossed the moral event-horizon for me). No, my issue with Renegade's Regret was having to play someone other than my character. I hate it when we have to do that, or fly someone else's ship for a mission.
You mean the Wonderful Witch of Oz. Dorothy murders the Wizard, in order to bring his curtain to the Witch of the West. That's the price the Witch asked from Dorothy, before she would send her back to Mirror Kansas (which is a lush, verdant state filled with beautiful lakes and rolling hills). In the movie version, Kansas is filmed in glorious technicolor, while drab Oz is filmed in black and white.
Anyway, after she kills the wizard (sticking strictly to Scarecrow's brilliant plan), Tin Man chops up the body with his axe, so the Lion and Toto can eat him. It's an emotionally moving scene, filled with a heart-warming message of the value of cooperation.
Of course, Dorothy then murders all of them, too (and eats Toto, on her way back to the Witch's castle). While the Witch begins preparations to send Dorothy home, our resourceful Kansas lass thinks of all the supernatural power she can acquire right then and there, so she murders the Witch, and becomes the titular new Wonderful Witch of Oz!
You'll leave the theatre wanting your own adorable winged monkeys, and repeating the movie's tag line: "It's better than home! It's better than home! It's better than home!"
Cryptic has said in the past that negative reaction to missions like "Renegades Regret" have shown most people don't want to do the kinds of things an "evil" character like a Terran would do.
This was also a big issue as far back as City of Heroes/Villains. A lot of effort was put into the City of Villains release, and relatively few people actually ended up playing the villains because the vast majority of people want to be heroes.
What negative reactions though?
I remember only seeing positive feedback that we got to play as a Tzenkethi and players appreciated the fact that not all members of an enemy species were evil.
Neth Parr was an interesting character.
And we have Mirror Leeta working for the Alliance now. That shows that members of a Terran faction wouldn't have to be pure evil. Most factions end up being aligned with the Alliance anyway, so I'm sure they can find a way to make it work.
I personally wouldn't care for it, but 'evilness' is too easy an excuse not to do it.
(Besides, Federation captains can use dark matter, assimilation, all kinds of radiation and so on to give their opponents a painful and very unpleasant death. Very few players only use the stun setting on their phasers. As much as I love the Federation, in STO its players can be just as easily described as 'evil'.)
Cryptic has said in the past that negative reaction to missions like "Renegades Regret" have shown most people don't want to do the kinds of things an "evil" character like a Terran would do.
This was also a big issue as far back as City of Heroes/Villains. A lot of effort was put into the City of Villains release, and relatively few people actually ended up playing the villains because the vast majority of people want to be heroes.
What negative reactions though?
I remember only seeing positive feedback that we got to play as a Tzenkethi and players appreciated the fact that not all members of an enemy species were evil.
Neth Parr was an interesting character.
And we have Mirror Leeta working for the Alliance now. That shows that members of a Terran faction wouldn't have to be pure evil. Most factions end up being aligned with the Alliance anyway, so I'm sure they can find a way to make it work.
I personally wouldn't care for it, but 'evilness' is too easy an excuse not to do it.
(Besides, Federation captains can use dark matter, assimilation, all kinds of radiation and so on to give their opponents a painful and very unpleasant death. Very few players only use the stun setting on their phasers. As much as I love the Federation, in STO its players can be just as easily described as 'evil'.)
well put, I don't get how people complained about J'Ula being a war criminal despite the fact our player characters are bigger war criminals, we literally slaughtered half the galaxy,
“Frankly, Admiral, I don’t care how you do things in the Terran Empire. You’re over here now and you’re going to do things our way.” Admiral Quinn stood up from behind his desk and tossed the data pad filled with feedback notes onto his desk with an emphasizing clatter. He straightened his jacket as he paced to the side of his desk and put a hand on it to steady himself as he drew the other over his face in frustration. Once the calm had returned to him, he turned to Admiral Leeta as she took the liberty to pick up the data pad and peruse its contents.
“Ok, fine. I didn’t know Exocomps were considered citizens here. That’s an easy enough fix.” Leeta said more to the data pad than Quinn.
“That’s the least of my concerns here and you know it. Stop deflecting. You can’t possibly believe that will work on me.” Quinn composed himself.
Leeta rolled her eyes. He was right though; he wasn’t anything like the Admiral Quinn from her universe. There, her antics had a much more measured effect upon him and she could usually get what she wanted. It was irritating having to actually work hard to meet his approval here, but, a welcome change of pace considering. The Federation may seem soft on the outside, but one thing Leeta was learning fast is that all those apparent weaknesses made for some excellent ablative armor in the form of many and varied allies; something the Alliance had taught the Terran Empire decades ago.
She paused her review of the data pad and gave Quinn a look. “Seriously?”
Quinn raised his eyebrows, “Problem?”
Leeta turned the pad to face Quinn, “You object to the training program having an objective to eliminate your Terran counterpart?”
Quinn nodded and turned to walk back around his desk, placing a hand on the back of the chair, “The parameters for the operation were clearly laid out, Admiral. This operation is a simulated data acquisition mission, not an assassination attempt…”
It was Leeta’s turn to abuse the poor data pad this time. She sent it skidding across Quinn’s desk with a flip of her wrist that was as swift as her forgetting about it. She leaned forward on the desk almost predatorily. “It’s a target of opportunity. You have heard of those here in the Federation, haven’t you?”
She scoffed, pushing herself off of Quinn’s desk and throwing her hands up in frustration. Now it was her time to pace. “I’m sorry, but nothing here makes any sense. It all looks the same, for the most part” she paused to examine a plant in the office corner, and then turned her gaze to the more familiar Earth out of the Operations windows, “but beyond that it’s… well… it’s just beyond me!”
Quinn looked to the data pad and then back to Leeta as she continued her frustrated outburst. “You could say the same from my point of view. This sort of behavior would never be rewarded with the title of Admiral here…”
Leeta shot him a look made of daggers. Quinn held his hand up to silence her before she spat venom too.
“But my style of command would also not get me very far in the Terran Empire either.” Leeta nodded at that and folded her arms guarded against what he said next.
Quinn continued, “This training operation is, at its core, an opportunity for us to learn about one another. To understand one another.” Leeta sucked on her teeth at that ridiculous Federation notion of friendship and coexistence overcoming adversity.
Quinn noticed her rising objection and pivoted. “So that we can better know our enemies, and ourselves.”
“And never know defeat” Leeta finished the thought, thankful that there was some common strategic thinking she could meet Quinn on for once. She sighed, unfolded her arms, and stalked over to the data pad. Picking it up and examining, momentarily, for any sign of damage.
“Ok, fine” She began, extending an olive branch, “I’ll remove the target of opportunity directive. But I am not removing your counterpart from the simulation. You wanted this to be as realistic of a simulation as I could offer, so Quinn stays.”
Quinn added, “And the Exocomps are not to be used as expendable assets.”
“Mmm-hmm” Leeta affirmed as she scrawled notes onto the data pad to amend the feedback there. “Anything else?”
“It’s all there, in priority order.” He sat down, “Just… try to think like a Federation officer.”
She narrowed her eyes, “So… planting explosives on the secondary fusion reactors is still out?”
Quinn nodded and motioned to the door, “Now you’re getting it. Dismissed.”
something tells me that Admiral Quinn isn't aware of the crimes his Starfleet Warlords Admirals committed, he doesn't give background checks on all the admirals he recruited, half of us still have the mushroom cannon.
I just saw some new Terran Empire goodies at the Tailor's which I hadn't noticed since before the update. Belts and more daggers, for example. Daggers for each arm, and for one hip, as well as 4 new belts, IIRC.
Would a playable Terran actually be any fun though? I mean, the Mirror Universe itself is great...everyone's TRIBBLE, bisexual and a tramp; they get to dress as sleazily as they like, in catsuits, sports bras and daisy dukes and being naughty is the norm!
I just don't see us being able to have THAT much fun...prove me wrong! The Mirror "sadomasochism" Arc, with all the trimmings would certainly liven things up.
You must have missed Thay's wonderful Mirror Wars when the Foundry was here. Two different Mirror Universe Timelines messing with each other AND the Feds! That and Star Trek Continues were 2 of my favourite Foundry series, and I miss them both!
Cryptic has said in the past that negative reaction to missions like "Renegades Regret" have shown most people don't want to do the kinds of things an "evil" character like a Terran would do.
How much of that negative reaction actually was the idea of wiping out planets full of life, and how much of that was the fact that Renegade's Regret is buggy as hell? (Especially in the space phases.) If people were so hell-bent against playing "bad guys", no one would play Chaos in the Warhammer games. Or Crypto in "Destroy All Humans". Or Sith or Dark Jedi (or Imperials, for that matter) in any Star Wars game.
Me, personally, I like playing villains. But to each their own.
My issue with Renegade's Regret wasn't the evil actions (heck, I would LOVE to have my character grab a Tzenkethi Protomatter bomb...and Transwarp straight to Kobali Prime to launch it. THOSE grave-robbing, brain-washing, necrophiliac, purple ghouls DESERVE to be on the receiving end of genocide. Helping those creeps was the evil action that crossed the moral event-horizon for me). No, my issue with Renegade's Regret was having to play someone other than my character. I hate it when we have to do that, or fly someone else's ship for a mission.
You mean the Wonderful Witch of Oz. Dorothy murders the Wizard, in order to bring his curtain to the Witch of the West. That's the price the Witch asked from Dorothy, before she would send her back to Mirror Kansas (which is a lush, verdant state filled with beautiful lakes and rolling hills). In the movie version, Kansas is filmed in glorious technicolor, while drab Oz is filmed in black and white.
Anyway, after she kills the wizard (sticking strictly to Scarecrow's brilliant plan), Tin Man chops up the body with his axe, so the Lion and Toto can eat him. It's an emotionally moving scene, filled with a heart-warming message of the value of cooperation.
Of course, Dorothy then murders all of them, too (and eats Toto, on her way back to the Witch's castle). While the Witch begins preparations to send Dorothy home, our resourceful Kansas lass thinks of all the supernatural power she can acquire right then and there, so she murders the Witch, and becomes the titular new Wonderful Witch of Oz!
You'll leave the theatre wanting your own adorable winged monkeys, and repeating the movie's tag line: "It's better than home! It's better than home! It's better than home!"
L. Frank Baum is brilliant in any universe!
Ah, the Foundry...I still miss it terribly, but I think the stories players came up with were shaming the episodes. If it was still running today, the "writers" of STO would be humiliated by the difference in quality.
And we have Mirror Leeta working for the Alliance now. That shows that members of a Terran faction wouldn't have to be pure evil. Most factions end up being aligned with the Alliance anyway, so I'm sure they can find a way to make it work.
I think it's trap. I think it's all a plan by Leeta and the Emperor to put a end to that Terran Civil War Leeta mentions in one of her reports. We're going to go to Mirror ESD and try to take out the Emperor ... We'll fail horribly and then as the Terran Empire will be united in their campaign against us.
There was a lot of negative reaction, with people saying they never want mission content like that again, and vowing to skip the mission on every future character because they found having to commit genocide like that too emotionally disturbing and the such.
The main thing with playable Terrans is some sort of Terran recruitment event. If they intend to have recruit events happening regularly, they can't just keep using the old ones over and over,
Why not? They use events over and over all the time...it's not like we get a recruitment event every month.
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Most people would want to play heroes since it means getting to play as the protagonists, society has a massive hero complex, personally I perfer being the villain, I've known how it is like to rejected by society just for being different than the Norm, and I too had plotted world domination in the past, I'm currenty on break due to Covid, and sure good guys get appraised and accepted and always get the girl, however villains get the best weapons and the best costumes, they're just really cool, we don't need the power of friendship since we're capable of doing everything ourselves.
I don't know if I'd go that far...in SWTOR the Sith Empire is typically more popular...in WoW The Horde is generally more popular. (I don't care what people say, having two genocidal warchiefs makes them almost evil in my eyes, especially with how the accepted it completely the second time)
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Besides the MANY threads that popped up, both on here and Reddit, where people complained, in mass, about how they literally couldn't finish the mission because they found the actions we were being made to perform so horrible that they couldn't stomach it?
There was a lot of negative reaction, with people saying they never want mission content like that again, and vowing to skip the mission on every future character because they found having to commit genocide like that too emotionally disturbing and the such.
Ok whatever, personally I loved it, the only thing I hated was how slow and underpowered the Tzenkethi were, I was expecting a race that could one shot their way across the galaxy like Iconians and all I got were a bunch of weaklings that took like 50 attacks to kill a single enemy, remind me why did we ever consider them a threat again?!
Most people would want to play heroes since it means getting to play as the protagonists, society has a massive hero complex, personally I perfer being the villain, I've known how it is like to rejected by society just for being different than the Norm, and I too had plotted world domination in the past, I'm currenty on break due to Covid, and sure good guys get appraised and accepted and always get the girl, however villains get the best weapons and the best costumes, they're just really cool, we don't need the power of friendship since we're capable of doing everything ourselves.
I don't know if I'd go that far...in SWTOR the Sith Empire is typically more popular...in WoW The Horde is generally more popular. (I don't care what people say, having two genocidal warchiefs makes them almost evil in my eyes, especially with how the accepted it completely the second time)
Remember 40k, most of the factions were evil and along comes the Federation Tau Empire aka the one good guy faction and the huge backlashed that followed, people don't care if they're playing on the good side or bad side all that matters to them is the side with the humans, at least that's how it is most of the time.
The reaction to Renegades Regret really was negative, besides the threads archived here and Reddit that Som mentioned people were ranting about it in chat a lot while the event was running. The tone made the flap about the Kobali seem mild and the Kobali stuff usually ran about like Vorwoda's opinion earlier in this thread:
. . . I would LOVE to have my character grab a Tzenkethi Protomatter bomb...and Transwarp straight to Kobali Prime to launch it. THOSE grave-robbing, brain-washing, necrophiliac, purple ghouls DESERVE to be on the receiving end of genocide. Helping those creeps was the evil action that crossed the moral event-horizon for me). . .
Not only did players not appreciate playing it from the point of view of an agonizingly slow four-armed massacre turtle (which is hard to get into the head of and makes the play way too cumbersome and grindy), they hated being forced to play through doing the atrocities. For that matter, a lot of people objected to torturing a Federation captain in the old Klingon content and reducing wildlife to goo with thalaron radiation while under mind control in one of the Romulan episodes (though the objection to that Romulan one seemed to be more about the mind control itself).
No, my issue with Renegade's Regret was having to play someone other than my character. I hate it when we have to do that, or fly someone else's ship for a mission.
Mine as well. Although I don't mind it if there's a real point to it (i.e. flying the Bird-of-Prey in the Doomsday Machine mission, or the Enterprise-C in Temporal Ambassador)... the Tzenkethi one, meh. (And not just because that portion of it tended to be buggy.)
I was personally INCREDIBLY uncomfortable with auto-firing weapons to kill civilians begging and pleading for their lives. It was REALLY sick. I always thought the Sela brainwashing was unpleasant and I ALWAYS tried to spare the animals. I really don't know who thinks some of these things up, but only Sadists can get off on playing those episodes.
The new TFO seems to be setting up a new plotline with the Mirror Universe! Fingers crossed this might lead to playable Terrans!
We have been playing terran empire since day 1. The feds in this game blast everything they come across into dust. We dont really need a TE faction at this point. If they do make a TE faction i move to have all the characters made on it have evil twin beards and mustaches even the women.
The new TFO seems to be setting up a new plotline with the Mirror Universe! Fingers crossed this might lead to playable Terrans!
We have been playing terran empire since day 1. The feds in this game blast everything they come across into dust. We dont really need a TE faction at this point. If they do make a TE faction i move to have all the characters made on it have evil twin beards and mustaches even the women.
I'm cool with my femme toon having a beard, so long as it's not on her chin
You are in the Mirror Universe, you are not happy with things, you get an opportunity to travel to the "normal" universe and take it, joining the Federation for adventures after that.
Might be part of an "underground" or a rank-and-file captain.
The "underground" story would be you working with your fellow conspirators to find a path across, succeeding in the end, while the "normal" story could have you in ever-greater conflict with your superiors, culminating in an invasion of the "normal" universe where you are either doomed to fail and then surrender/defect at the end (akin to how TOS captains must "lose" their final mission) or you just turn on your fellow Mirror invasion force at the start and join the Feds right there.
Just a bare-bones Mirror Universe experience that is then shifted into the main storyline shared by all.
I am sure that there is some version of some Mirror Universe uniform that they could add for free to give the captains something to wear. Doesn't need to be anything spectacular, just serviceable.
Maybe they have an option to join the Klingons, and there may even be an option to play as a Klingon character (just the race, not a mirror Klingon faction), but I wouldn't bet on it. Not for free, anyway. Asking people to pay a little $ to play as a non-standard mirror species is a very real possibility.
Personally? I think that over-use of the mirror universe does it no favors and am not a fan of trying to make the "cool villains" into heroes.
This was also a big issue as far back as City of Heroes/Villains. A lot of effort was put into the City of Villains release, and relatively few people actually ended up playing the villains because the vast majority of people want to be heroes.
You are a tad miss informed on that. Many players played villains and later the preatorians. The problem was that when the villains portion dropped they made it no longer possible to play with your friends.....you had to either be a villain or hero. And they tried to impose constant PVP on each other. With many players using hacks and exploits. And in fact you can look this up, there was a deliberate alteration to some the pvp villain verus heroes zones to give heroes an advantage. To a point that the drones would do nothing to heroes if they just sat inthe villian respawn spots. That was finally changed after many many players begged for it to be changed, and ridiculed them with videos.
Eventualy cryptic implemented a way to change from a hero to villain and villain to hero....which made alot of people do all the content on single characters.
And then eventually made it so you could play any of the archtypes whether you where a hero or villain or which ever side of the preatorians you chose to start.
The Terran part though making it a new major race....that would be a heck of alot of work.....thats a huge amount of stuff for the races already in the game to do mirror version content.
Even if it was only the Terran Empire....that would take a bit....as i think we all know from watching discovery and learning about the new trek series coming that the powers that are in charge of all that have a lot of stuff planned.
I dont think we would see any new major faction until after Section 31 starts airing.
Cryptic never implemented the hero to rogue to vigilante to villain system, or the Praetorian vs Resistance system for City of Heroes/City of Villains. That was Paragon Studios and NCSoft. Paragon Studios took over and improved CoH/CoV when Cryptic left to go make Champions Online. The Going Rogue expansion happened years after Cryptic peaced out, and was completely Paragon Studios. Cryptic never had what it took to put in development for anything other than the beginning really. It took another development team to make a great game. Supergroup lairs and bases? Paragon Studios. Themed packs for powers, emotes, outfits for the various origins? Paragon Studios. Paragon Studios back then, was able to do what Cryptic today could never on their best day figure out. Allow guilds/supergroups to build their own customizable bases and lairs. And allow people to make impactful choices during dialogue with their missions.
The reaction to Renegades Regret really was negative, besides the threads archived here and Reddit that Som mentioned people were ranting about it in chat a lot while the event was running. The tone made the flap about the Kobali seem mild and the Kobali stuff usually ran about like Vorwoda's opinion earlier in this thread:
. . . I would LOVE to have my character grab a Tzenkethi Protomatter bomb...and Transwarp straight to Kobali Prime to launch it. THOSE grave-robbing, brain-washing, necrophiliac, purple ghouls DESERVE to be on the receiving end of genocide. Helping those creeps was the evil action that crossed the moral event-horizon for me). . .
Not only did players not appreciate playing it from the point of view of an agonizingly slow four-armed massacre turtle (which is hard to get into the head of and makes the play way too cumbersome and grindy), they hated being forced to play through doing the atrocities. For that matter, a lot of people objected to torturing a Federation captain in the old Klingon content and reducing wildlife to goo with thalaron radiation while under mind control in one of the Romulan episodes (though the objection to that Romulan one seemed to be more about the mind control itself).
Part of the dislike, is from the fact that Cryptic only knows how to write railroading stories, with no choice/agency in the dialogue options, and to retcon for more noblebright skub. They decided to whitewash the Klingons in that mission by removing that part about the torture of the Federation captain. And no more punching Ferengi.
The new TFO seems to be setting up a new plotline with the Mirror Universe! Fingers crossed this might lead to playable Terrans!
We have been playing terran empire since day 1. The feds in this game blast everything they come across into dust. We dont really need a TE faction at this point. If they do make a TE faction i move to have all the characters made on it have evil twin beards and mustaches even the women.
I'm cool with my femme toon having a beard, so long as it's not on her chin
What? No fashionable braided chin worm for your female, that you can unfurl for special occasions like the old D&D female dwarves, into the glory of something akin to ZZ Top's facial hair?
Terrans (Renegade Terrans) could be added to Star Fleet faction, by way of the DIS Klingons in the KDF.
Instead of body based somewhat on the alien body, like the DIS Klingons were, Renegade Terrans could have alternate traits to differentiate them from Prime Timeline humans.
Terrans (Renegade Terrans) could be added to Star Fleet faction, by way of the DIS Klingons in the KDF.
Instead of body based somewhat on the alien body, like the DIS Klingons were, Renegade Terrans could have alternate traits to differentiate them from Prime Timeline humans.
Free traits mean virtually nothing...all that effort just to add some new traits? People wanting a Terran faction...why? When EVERYTHING is available to make one? Just to cheap to buy any of the Terran uniforms?
Can't have a honest conversation because of a white knight with power
Terrans (Renegade Terrans) could be added to Star Fleet faction, by way of the DIS Klingons in the KDF.
Instead of body based somewhat on the alien body, like the DIS Klingons were, Renegade Terrans could have alternate traits to differentiate them from Prime Timeline humans.
Free traits mean virtually nothing...all that effort just to add some new traits? People wanting a Terran faction...why? When EVERYTHING is available to make one? Just to cheap to buy any of the Terran uniforms?
While I agree to an extent, I still understand that some people will want more.
There is a difference in feel from playing an "Outcast Terran" that has done all of this stuff offscreen and begins play in the tutorial compared to beginning play in the Mirror Universe and that experience being the tutorial.
The exact same things could be said about playing as a TOS or Disco captain.
From launch day on there was nothing stopping anyone from pretending that they were from the TOS era.
The only thing stopping anyone from pretending that they were a Disco-era captain at launch was the fact that Disco wasn't a thing yet.
But giving players a ~10 level Mirror Universe captain experience will appeal to players that want to play a Mirror Universe captain just as giving them a ~10 level TOS experience appeals to players wanting to play a TOS captain and a ~10 level Disco experience appeals to people wanting to play as a Disco captain.
I have no great interest in a Mirror Universe character, but if they made a Mirror tutorial then I would at least make one to see that.
And if players making new toons has value to the company then that is just more reason to do this because I wouldn't be alone.
I am 100% behind a Terran faction and recruitment event. However, the new TFO is a boring wave after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, of enemies that seems clearly intent on pushing the new ground tokens.
I am 100% behind a Terran faction and recruitment event. However, the new TFO is a boring wave after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, of enemies that seems clearly intent on pushing the new ground tokens.
Well, a lot of the Klingon stuff was wave after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, of enemies, too, give or take a wave.
And even that wasn't the first time that we had seen this sort of design.
I wonder if it would be possible to have a mission where you encounter your mirror universe counterparts. Essentially basic preprogrammed enemies at your level, but using your team face data to simulate the mirror versions. It could start something like "I was wondering if I would ever meet you once I heard of your arrival"
Comments
I don't care what the crybabies want, I'm am perfectly willing to spend my earnings on more content like that, just let me blow up planets for fun, I could start protesting like LetmeplayaChangeling on DS9.
You must have missed Thay's wonderful Mirror Wars when the Foundry was here. Two different Mirror Universe Timelines messing with each other AND the Feds!
My issue with Renegade's Regret wasn't the evil actions (heck, I would LOVE to have my character grab a Tzenkethi Protomatter bomb...and Transwarp straight to Kobali Prime to launch it. THOSE grave-robbing, brain-washing, necrophiliac, purple ghouls DESERVE to be on the receiving end of genocide. Helping those creeps was the evil action that crossed the moral event-horizon for me). No, my issue with Renegade's Regret was having to play someone other than my character. I hate it when we have to do that, or fly someone else's ship for a mission.
You mean the Wonderful Witch of Oz. Dorothy murders the Wizard, in order to bring his curtain to the Witch of the West. That's the price the Witch asked from Dorothy, before she would send her back to Mirror Kansas (which is a lush, verdant state filled with beautiful lakes and rolling hills). In the movie version, Kansas is filmed in glorious technicolor, while drab Oz is filmed in black and white.
Anyway, after she kills the wizard (sticking strictly to Scarecrow's brilliant plan), Tin Man chops up the body with his axe, so the Lion and Toto can eat him. It's an emotionally moving scene, filled with a heart-warming message of the value of cooperation.
Of course, Dorothy then murders all of them, too (and eats Toto, on her way back to the Witch's castle). While the Witch begins preparations to send Dorothy home, our resourceful Kansas lass thinks of all the supernatural power she can acquire right then and there, so she murders the Witch, and becomes the titular new Wonderful Witch of Oz!
You'll leave the theatre wanting your own adorable winged monkeys, and repeating the movie's tag line: "It's better than home! It's better than home! It's better than home!"
L. Frank Baum is brilliant in any universe!
What negative reactions though?
I remember only seeing positive feedback that we got to play as a Tzenkethi and players appreciated the fact that not all members of an enemy species were evil.
Neth Parr was an interesting character.
And we have Mirror Leeta working for the Alliance now. That shows that members of a Terran faction wouldn't have to be pure evil. Most factions end up being aligned with the Alliance anyway, so I'm sure they can find a way to make it work.
I personally wouldn't care for it, but 'evilness' is too easy an excuse not to do it.
(Besides, Federation captains can use dark matter, assimilation, all kinds of radiation and so on to give their opponents a painful and very unpleasant death. Very few players only use the stun setting on their phasers. As much as I love the Federation, in STO its players can be just as easily described as 'evil'.)
well put, I don't get how people complained about J'Ula being a war criminal despite the fact our player characters are bigger war criminals, we literally slaughtered half the galaxy,
“Frankly, Admiral, I don’t care how you do things in the Terran Empire. You’re over here now and you’re going to do things our way.” Admiral Quinn stood up from behind his desk and tossed the data pad filled with feedback notes onto his desk with an emphasizing clatter. He straightened his jacket as he paced to the side of his desk and put a hand on it to steady himself as he drew the other over his face in frustration. Once the calm had returned to him, he turned to Admiral Leeta as she took the liberty to pick up the data pad and peruse its contents.
“Ok, fine. I didn’t know Exocomps were considered citizens here. That’s an easy enough fix.” Leeta said more to the data pad than Quinn.
“That’s the least of my concerns here and you know it. Stop deflecting. You can’t possibly believe that will work on me.” Quinn composed himself.
Leeta rolled her eyes. He was right though; he wasn’t anything like the Admiral Quinn from her universe. There, her antics had a much more measured effect upon him and she could usually get what she wanted. It was irritating having to actually work hard to meet his approval here, but, a welcome change of pace considering. The Federation may seem soft on the outside, but one thing Leeta was learning fast is that all those apparent weaknesses made for some excellent ablative armor in the form of many and varied allies; something the Alliance had taught the Terran Empire decades ago.
She paused her review of the data pad and gave Quinn a look. “Seriously?”
Quinn raised his eyebrows, “Problem?”
Leeta turned the pad to face Quinn, “You object to the training program having an objective to eliminate your Terran counterpart?”
Quinn nodded and turned to walk back around his desk, placing a hand on the back of the chair, “The parameters for the operation were clearly laid out, Admiral. This operation is a simulated data acquisition mission, not an assassination attempt…”
It was Leeta’s turn to abuse the poor data pad this time. She sent it skidding across Quinn’s desk with a flip of her wrist that was as swift as her forgetting about it. She leaned forward on the desk almost predatorily. “It’s a target of opportunity. You have heard of those here in the Federation, haven’t you?”
She scoffed, pushing herself off of Quinn’s desk and throwing her hands up in frustration. Now it was her time to pace. “I’m sorry, but nothing here makes any sense. It all looks the same, for the most part” she paused to examine a plant in the office corner, and then turned her gaze to the more familiar Earth out of the Operations windows, “but beyond that it’s… well… it’s just beyond me!”
Quinn looked to the data pad and then back to Leeta as she continued her frustrated outburst. “You could say the same from my point of view. This sort of behavior would never be rewarded with the title of Admiral here…”
Leeta shot him a look made of daggers. Quinn held his hand up to silence her before she spat venom too.
“But my style of command would also not get me very far in the Terran Empire either.” Leeta nodded at that and folded her arms guarded against what he said next.
Quinn continued, “This training operation is, at its core, an opportunity for us to learn about one another. To understand one another.” Leeta sucked on her teeth at that ridiculous Federation notion of friendship and coexistence overcoming adversity.
Quinn noticed her rising objection and pivoted. “So that we can better know our enemies, and ourselves.”
“And never know defeat” Leeta finished the thought, thankful that there was some common strategic thinking she could meet Quinn on for once. She sighed, unfolded her arms, and stalked over to the data pad. Picking it up and examining, momentarily, for any sign of damage.
“Ok, fine” She began, extending an olive branch, “I’ll remove the target of opportunity directive. But I am not removing your counterpart from the simulation. You wanted this to be as realistic of a simulation as I could offer, so Quinn stays.”
Quinn added, “And the Exocomps are not to be used as expendable assets.”
“Mmm-hmm” Leeta affirmed as she scrawled notes onto the data pad to amend the feedback there. “Anything else?”
“It’s all there, in priority order.” He sat down, “Just… try to think like a Federation officer.”
She narrowed her eyes, “So… planting explosives on the secondary fusion reactors is still out?”
Quinn nodded and motioned to the door, “Now you’re getting it. Dismissed.”
something tells me that Admiral Quinn isn't aware of the crimes his Starfleet Warlords Admirals committed, he doesn't give background checks on all the admirals he recruited, half of us still have the mushroom cannon.
Ah, the Foundry...I still miss it terribly, but I think the stories players came up with were shaming the episodes. If it was still running today, the "writers" of STO would be humiliated by the difference in quality.
I think it's trap. I think it's all a plan by Leeta and the Emperor to put a end to that Terran Civil War Leeta mentions in one of her reports. We're going to go to Mirror ESD and try to take out the Emperor ... We'll fail horribly and then as the Terran Empire will be united in their campaign against us.
Then don't play as the bad guy faction?
Why not? They use events over and over all the time...it's not like we get a recruitment event every month.
I don't know if I'd go that far...in SWTOR the Sith Empire is typically more popular...in WoW The Horde is generally more popular. (I don't care what people say, having two genocidal warchiefs makes them almost evil in my eyes, especially with how the accepted it completely the second time)
Ok whatever, personally I loved it, the only thing I hated was how slow and underpowered the Tzenkethi were, I was expecting a race that could one shot their way across the galaxy like Iconians and all I got were a bunch of weaklings that took like 50 attacks to kill a single enemy, remind me why did we ever consider them a threat again?!
Remember 40k, most of the factions were evil and along comes the Federation Tau Empire aka the one good guy faction and the huge backlashed that followed, people don't care if they're playing on the good side or bad side all that matters to them is the side with the humans, at least that's how it is most of the time.
Not only did players not appreciate playing it from the point of view of an agonizingly slow four-armed massacre turtle (which is hard to get into the head of and makes the play way too cumbersome and grindy), they hated being forced to play through doing the atrocities. For that matter, a lot of people objected to torturing a Federation captain in the old Klingon content and reducing wildlife to goo with thalaron radiation while under mind control in one of the Romulan episodes (though the objection to that Romulan one seemed to be more about the mind control itself).
Mine as well. Although I don't mind it if there's a real point to it (i.e. flying the Bird-of-Prey in the Doomsday Machine mission, or the Enterprise-C in Temporal Ambassador)... the Tzenkethi one, meh. (And not just because that portion of it tended to be buggy.)
"There's No Way Like Poway!"
Real Join Date: October 2010
There should be a choice about things like that.
We have been playing terran empire since day 1. The feds in this game blast everything they come across into dust. We dont really need a TE faction at this point. If they do make a TE faction i move to have all the characters made on it have evil twin beards and mustaches even the women.
I'm cool with my femme toon having a beard, so long as it's not on her chin
You are in the Mirror Universe, you are not happy with things, you get an opportunity to travel to the "normal" universe and take it, joining the Federation for adventures after that.
Might be part of an "underground" or a rank-and-file captain.
The "underground" story would be you working with your fellow conspirators to find a path across, succeeding in the end, while the "normal" story could have you in ever-greater conflict with your superiors, culminating in an invasion of the "normal" universe where you are either doomed to fail and then surrender/defect at the end (akin to how TOS captains must "lose" their final mission) or you just turn on your fellow Mirror invasion force at the start and join the Feds right there.
Just a bare-bones Mirror Universe experience that is then shifted into the main storyline shared by all.
I am sure that there is some version of some Mirror Universe uniform that they could add for free to give the captains something to wear. Doesn't need to be anything spectacular, just serviceable.
Maybe they have an option to join the Klingons, and there may even be an option to play as a Klingon character (just the race, not a mirror Klingon faction), but I wouldn't bet on it. Not for free, anyway. Asking people to pay a little $ to play as a non-standard mirror species is a very real possibility.
Personally? I think that over-use of the mirror universe does it no favors and am not a fan of trying to make the "cool villains" into heroes.
Cryptic never implemented the hero to rogue to vigilante to villain system, or the Praetorian vs Resistance system for City of Heroes/City of Villains. That was Paragon Studios and NCSoft. Paragon Studios took over and improved CoH/CoV when Cryptic left to go make Champions Online. The Going Rogue expansion happened years after Cryptic peaced out, and was completely Paragon Studios. Cryptic never had what it took to put in development for anything other than the beginning really. It took another development team to make a great game. Supergroup lairs and bases? Paragon Studios. Themed packs for powers, emotes, outfits for the various origins? Paragon Studios. Paragon Studios back then, was able to do what Cryptic today could never on their best day figure out. Allow guilds/supergroups to build their own customizable bases and lairs. And allow people to make impactful choices during dialogue with their missions.
Part of the dislike, is from the fact that Cryptic only knows how to write railroading stories, with no choice/agency in the dialogue options, and to retcon for more noblebright skub. They decided to whitewash the Klingons in that mission by removing that part about the torture of the Federation captain. And no more punching Ferengi.
What? No fashionable braided chin worm for your female, that you can unfurl for special occasions like the old D&D female dwarves, into the glory of something akin to ZZ Top's facial hair?
Instead of body based somewhat on the alien body, like the DIS Klingons were, Renegade Terrans could have alternate traits to differentiate them from Prime Timeline humans.
Free traits mean virtually nothing...all that effort just to add some new traits? People wanting a Terran faction...why? When EVERYTHING is available to make one? Just to cheap to buy any of the Terran uniforms?
While I agree to an extent, I still understand that some people will want more.
There is a difference in feel from playing an "Outcast Terran" that has done all of this stuff offscreen and begins play in the tutorial compared to beginning play in the Mirror Universe and that experience being the tutorial.
The exact same things could be said about playing as a TOS or Disco captain.
From launch day on there was nothing stopping anyone from pretending that they were from the TOS era.
The only thing stopping anyone from pretending that they were a Disco-era captain at launch was the fact that Disco wasn't a thing yet.
But giving players a ~10 level Mirror Universe captain experience will appeal to players that want to play a Mirror Universe captain just as giving them a ~10 level TOS experience appeals to players wanting to play a TOS captain and a ~10 level Disco experience appeals to people wanting to play as a Disco captain.
I have no great interest in a Mirror Universe character, but if they made a Mirror tutorial then I would at least make one to see that.
And if players making new toons has value to the company then that is just more reason to do this because I wouldn't be alone.
Well, a lot of the Klingon stuff was wave after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, after wave, of enemies, too, give or take a wave.
And even that wasn't the first time that we had seen this sort of design.
i dont mind i dig the bozeman and trailblazer
Worth it!