damage calculation question....

westmetals
westmetals Member Posts: 8,221 Arc User
edited August 2021 in The Shipyard
Just a small question, doing some fine-tuning on builds and I don't have (nor do I want) a parser set up.

How exactly would one calculate the average damage done by a weapon/ability, using the following stats:
- tooltip displayed damage
- crit chance
- crit severity

I'm particularly interested in figuring this out because I'm trying to figure out a possible swap of deflector on my super-Gravity Well build, which would result in lowering the tooltip damage but increasing the crit chance and crit severity.

(Assume I know enough about the nuts and bolts to know why I'm getting the numbers I'm using. Am just not that great at developing a formula to deal with multiple variables.)

Comments

  • foxrockssocks
    foxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,479 Arc User
    Okay, so take D, your tooltip damage per second. We can call crit chance C where its in decimal form and crit severity E, again in decimal form, not percentage. Don't forget E should be greater than 1, so if you only have base crit severity at 50% (or whatever it is,) then E would equal 1.5. C is going to be less than 1, a 30% crit rate would mean C is .3.

    So D*C*E is your total crit damage per second. Then D*(1-C) is your normal damage per second. Add them together and you should get total average damage per second.

    To use my example numbers, your crit damage happens 30% of the time with a 50% damage bonus from severity, so you'd have D*.3*1.5 or .45D, then your normal damage is the remaining 70% of your hits with 1-.3, or .7D. Thus total is .7+.45 or 1.15*D, which means 115% of the tooltip value is your actual average damage.
  • vetteguy904
    vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,371 Arc User
    BUT, you have to take into account modifiers, and if they are cat 1 or cat 2
    Spock.jpg

  • foxrockssocks
    foxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,479 Arc User
    BUT, you have to take into account modifiers, and if they are cat 1 or cat 2

    No, you don't, unless the equipment offers a cat 1 or cat 2 bonus that the other piece does not. Cat 1 is fairly easy if that's the case, it is already added into the tooltips. Cat 2 is more difficult to separate out but isn't actually an issue if the equipment your swapping does not have a cat 2 bonus on it.
  • westmetals
    westmetals Member Posts: 8,221 Arc User
    BUT, you have to take into account modifiers, and if they are cat 1 or cat 2

    No, you don't, unless the equipment offers a cat 1 or cat 2 bonus that the other piece does not. Cat 1 is fairly easy if that's the case, it is already added into the tooltips. Cat 2 is more difficult to separate out but isn't actually an issue if the equipment your swapping does not have a cat 2 bonus on it.

    Which in this case, neither piece of equipment has a cat2 damage bonus.

    And even if it did, wouldn't that be factored into the tooltips also?

    In the case given... I was looking at swapping out the build's existing deflector for a Colony one, which results in an observed decrease in the tooltip damage (because of other stats) but increases the crit hit and crit severity. I am trying to determine if the resulting increase in criticals outweighs the decrease in non-criticals.
  • westmetals
    westmetals Member Posts: 8,221 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    okay....sooo... to check my math because frankly I'm surprised the numbers are this far apart:

    version "B"
    - tooltip dmg 4149, crit chance 69.5% (calculated as .695), crit severity 205.5% (2.055)
    - results in 1265.4+5925.7=7191.1

    version "C"
    - tooltip dmg 4058, crit chance 73.5% (calculated as .735), crit severity 217.3% (2.173)
    - results in 1075.4+6481.2=7556.6

    Does that look right?


    (the tooltip dmg is for Gravity Well III on a mega-well build; the only difference between the two versions above is the deflector... version B is using a Bajor Defense Deflector [CtrlX/EPG] [EPG]x4, while version "C" is a colony deflector with [ColCrit] [CtrlX/EPG] [CtrlX]x2 [EPG]... all of the stats other than the ColCrit are, I believe, either factored into the tooltip damage or are irrelevant... and both builds have over 400 Control so the GW radius is not affected)
  • foxrockssocks
    foxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,479 Arc User
    westmetals wrote: »
    BUT, you have to take into account modifiers, and if they are cat 1 or cat 2

    No, you don't, unless the equipment offers a cat 1 or cat 2 bonus that the other piece does not. Cat 1 is fairly easy if that's the case, it is already added into the tooltips. Cat 2 is more difficult to separate out but isn't actually an issue if the equipment your swapping does not have a cat 2 bonus on it.

    Which in this case, neither piece of equipment has a cat2 damage bonus.

    And even if it did, wouldn't that be factored into the tooltips also?

    In the case given... I was looking at swapping out the build's existing deflector for a Colony one, which results in an observed decrease in the tooltip damage (because of other stats) but increases the crit hit and crit severity. I am trying to determine if the resulting increase in criticals outweighs the decrease in non-criticals.

    I don't know off hand if it would be factored in, but it is the issue that cat 2 probably also multiply crit damage, if all cat 2 bonuses are applied together. So it would be base damage*cat 1 factored in, which gets multiplied by all cat 2 bonuses. On the tooltip you'd see a premature bonus from cat 2 because if you crit the game wants to calculate it a little differently and the tooltip base you're calculating is less accurate. We can ignore that when the equipment doesn't have a cat 2 bonus because the tooltip number is off by the same magnitude in any other case, so when you're strictly looking for which is greater, not exact numbers, you're still going to get that. I'm not going to make sense of that because its a what if and isn't important.


    As for the numbers, yes they look right. With the high crit chance, it becomes far more important to push critD than regular damage. You're getting ~12% more damage 73% of the time on your crits where the base damage difference is definitely not close to that 12%.

    For fun, run the numbers again and invert your crit chances pretending the 26% and 30% non-crit chance is your crit chance.
  • westmetals
    westmetals Member Posts: 8,221 Arc User
    edited August 2021
    I'm thinking I failed to add to the severity, but.... yes, like you said, I'm just trying to figure out which is better than the other, so the same error in both places isn't really important.

    Just wasn't sure the additional crit hit/crit severity would outweigh the drop in the tooltip damage (which I've calculated is 2.2%)... it appears however that it does... the differential is actually about 5% in favor of the higher-crit build.
    Post edited by westmetals on
  • westmetals
    westmetals Member Posts: 8,221 Arc User
    edited September 2021
    update: as a thought exercise, I ran similar numbers on an energy weapons build, comparing the effects of using Locators vs. Exploiters for the tac consoles. (I ran the numbers assuming four epic-XV tactical consoles being swapped out, no other changes.) (this build was done with a Romulan captain, part of why the crit numbers are so high).

    Antiproton Beam Array Mk XV [CrtD/Dm] [CrtD]x4
    tooltip damage: 2353.9
    stat screen crit hit (exploiter build) 40.6
    stat screen crit sev (exploiter build) 211.4
    caluclated to include +120 sev on weapon
    vs.
    stat screen crit hit (locator build) 48.6
    stat screen crit sev (locator build) 172.2
    caluclated to include +120 sev on weapon

    yields:
    1398.2166+4122.8182=5521.0348 (exploiter build)
    1209.9046+4486.7500=5696.6546 (locator build)

    The Locator version of the build ends up with a roughly 3% increase in total damage.