Because that isn't how game development works... anywhere.
unless you are claiming to work in the industry then you have no idea how game development works anymore than the person you are disagreeing with.
so either you have no idea what you are talking about or you are claiming to actually work in teh game development industry.
so which company are you going to pretend you work for?
Staffing up then shedding staff and the use of contractors is something I've read about many times over the years at sites like ArsTechnica, Kotaku, Polygon, GamaSutra. It's not secret insider info.
I said nothing about profit from star trek online I'm not saying its closing anytime soon but I'm not sure the team is as big either, I find it odd if NW and STO are doing so well why didn't they just move the devs at least temporarily to help on STO and NW . Makes me wonder if cryptic the company isn't pulling enough profit margins for the parent company perfect world. The pandemic is also a likely factor in this whole ship lull thing too
Because that isn't how game development works... anywhere. The people who originally left to go work on Magic were replaced. Kael has mentioned this several times. With Magic closing down, they now have an excess of devs, so they fire the ones they no longer need.
This is how games have been developed for decades. You have a large team of people who work on a game's initial development, since that is the stage that needs the most manpower. Then, after the initial development is done, and the game is either out or cancelled, you fire most of them, outside a core team of people to keep working on future content, since, now that all the initial systems and stuff is done, you don't need anywhere near the manpower to make more content. That's how everything from MMOs, to Call of Duty, are made. Most developers on game projects are just temporary contractors who are only there for the initial development phase, then get canned.
Its just weird much of those changes you list were pretty long ago, Scaling ships which is the most recent was over two years ago.
I believe the whole discover content bringing new people but how many have stayed I don't know. But I know game companies like to hype up their games popularity to keep people playing and invested in their online environment. I'm not saying the game is dieing just that I don't think there are as many people now as there were at LOR launch, I know it bounces up and down with AOY and other big content updates bringing people back.
We can sit around all day saying everything is just hype/PR, but that doesn't get anyone anywhere.
Also even if all of what you said is true that doesn't mean perfect world is happy with their investment returns in cryptic as a whole, its obvious in few cases they weren't see mtg online. I just don't completely buy the whole less new ships because there are less canon ships that they can put in the game. As they've made plenty of successful cryptic designs, there are still ships that should get T6 treatment. It could be becuase they are working on a big project we don't know about behind the scenes if so I can't wait to see it. But I'm really skeptical about your reasoning here
Why exactly? STO's primary ship source has been the shows, and with little left to draw from the shows, where exactly as they supposed to get so many new ships designs from?
Even when it comes to Cryptic original designs, Cryptic has made originally designs for pretty much every ship type in the game. Often times multiple original designs. When there are only so many kinds of ships to make, there is only so many categories you can make orignal designs for. And, after 11+ years, its not surprising they have made original designs for them.
Al Rivera has point blank admitted that, before all these new shows started coming out to give them more to work with, they were pretty much out of ideas for story arcs for STO, and only had a few story arc ideas left. Who would have guessed that after a decade of development you kinda have done most everything.
layoffs aren't usually reported as such when breaking contract with contractors , but I'm more familiar with software development, working as one. Companies often shuffles people around to new projects when they are axed they are moved to old and new projects, unless the company had to have layoffs due to either a corporate mandate padding there margins for share holders or the company is loosing money. I know you can't just throw more people at something and expect development to go faster, but a good resource manager will put them on projects that are on the schedule that are in lower priority issues or updates, until a more priority issue comes along.
I apologize I over looked those, but I do believe those took less development time then scaling did, but I don't know how their container system works. I'm hoping we get more big game play and system updates, its still been awhile. Even longer since we had a huge balance pass.
There is many of a story arc they could do with TNG stuff they never even touched on, heck even TOS and TMP era are pretty untapped. It's possible the team is having a bit of brain drain that can happen when you work on one project too long, but hopefully they allowing their team to do cross-colabs with other teams to reinvigorate their problem solving skills and frankly boredom that comes from long running projects. But again what ever the reason of this rut is with the game I hope they get past it and we get more ships, more balance passes, more systems, more content.
I said nothing about profit from star trek online I'm not saying its closing anytime soon but I'm not sure the team is as big either, I find it odd if NW and STO are doing so well why didn't they just move the devs at least temporarily to help on STO and NW . Makes me wonder if cryptic the company isn't pulling enough profit margins for the parent company perfect world. The pandemic is also a likely factor in this whole ship lull thing too
Because that isn't how game development works... anywhere. The people who originally left to go work on Magic were replaced. Kael has mentioned this several times. With Magic closing down, they now have an excess of devs, so they fire the ones they no longer need.
Al Rivera has point blank admitted that, before all these new shows started coming out to give them more to work with, they were pretty much out of ideas for story arcs for STO, and only had a few story arc ideas left. Who would have guessed that after a decade of development you kinda have done most everything.
Star Trek has had hundreds of novels and comics written, 50+ years of fan fiction. If the creative team can't come up with ideas, then it's their problem and they need new people.
They don't even need to use old novels and stuff. Theres hundreds of species in Star Trek. Just pick one and have sepratists from their people either join us or fight us depending on what the bulk of the species is. Then build new ships with either a focus of fighting them or combining with them if they join us. Lets have the Voth start a new crusade after discovering an ancient artifact and then have some of the Voth join us as a new faction or lets have an All that glitters is gold-pressed latinum expansion where several rogue Ferengi have built up a forutne and an army by scamming everyone over the years and now taking over everything.
No one said otherwise? No one said a thing. You didn't mention it.
I never said either of those things. Those are your words and the meaning you are attaching to things.
Which isn't what you originally said.
Then what was the point of mentioning it? I'm not sure what point you were trying to make with that statement.
You literally said the company is putting a spin on it, which is literally "its all a PR spin job!". so yes, you did say it.
It can make for a lot of extra work and other issues when quotes aren't properly included or stripped out as above.
The person responding may have to back fill or attempt to re-insert proper quotes. Doing so wastes that persons time.
It can make a response difficult at best.
Conversations also run the risk of losing continuity or end up not having much meaning at all. This is what's been accomplished here.
It also provides the opportunity for pseudo-quotes or misquotes similar to what was done above with the spin comment or even asking questions about what point somebody was trying to make with a statement without providing it and the context in which it was said.
I also use very limited quotes as I generally only focus on the part of the conversation, idea, or synopsis that I liked; and I limit comments on things I disagree with, except to maybe say I disagree then shift to the parts I liked.
I think that's why I rarely argue with the vast majority, as I mostly focus on agreements or similar idea's... ...if more people did that, there'd be a lot happier community for the most part.
I also use very limited quotes as I generally only focus on the part of the conversation, idea, or synopsis that I liked; and I limit comments on things I disagree with, except to maybe say I disagree then shift to the parts I liked.
I think that's why I rarely argue with the vast majority, as I mostly focus on agreements or similar idea's... ...if more people did that, there'd be a lot happier community for the most part.
yes, you actually want to have a productive conversation. but unfortunately there are other people that only want to argue and debate and explain why everyone else is always wrong. i honestly feel sorry for them but maybe one day they can mature past that behaviour.
Sure, very rare exceptions. The Luna and Vesta both sat at T5 status for a long time for what was rumored to be legal reasons.
I think at the time they ONLY appeared in novels. While they were both accepted into canon due to the quality of the designs, they still had to include the original designer. The Luna got the boost it needed when the Titan appeared in Lower Decks. The Vesta, as I recall, was an abolute legal NIGHTMARE to get permission to use in game because it never appeared in anything but the books, hence why it took so long to get in the first place.
> @strathkin said: > I also use very limited quotes as I generally only focus on the part of the conversation, idea, or synopsis that I liked; and I limit comments on things I disagree with, except to maybe say I disagree then shift to the parts I liked. > > I think that's why I rarely argue with the vast majority, as I mostly focus on agreements or similar idea's... ...if more people did that, there'd be a lot happier community for the most part.
This should be in the “Surviving MMO Forums 101” symposium. Too many people fail to realize that facts and data are objective and subjective to interpretation. It seems that very few not only not take it time to understand how to interpret from another’s point of view, but look for any minuscule iota to bring out the superiority complex that ruins most forums. We’re all human and no one is right or correct 100% of the time.
What really bugs me is that people are going to war over their beliefs yet don’t have not one full blow interaction(s) with the only people who can state fact with absolution: Cryptic/PWE/CBS-Paramount. It amazes me the lengths folks go to try to be “right and perfect” when, in all actuality, they’re still in equal footing as the person they’re trying to take down. It’s easy to skip something that you don’t agree with. Not every response deserves a response. The art of discussion/debate is lost these days.
This should be in the “Surviving MMO Forums 101” symposium... ...We’re all human and no one is right or correct 100% of the time.
I mean I spend a great deal of my time on first trying to understand what they are saying first and foremost, and often ask questions to clarify if not in forums, then in a private mail to them.
Sometimes people have the own opinions (which I think is fine) about something they like or dislike, and there nothing wrong with that. I always however try to see things from both sides (I remember a song by Allison Moorer - Both Sides now) that I always liked.
So I generally let people others say their opinions, and try hard to look at both sides for context, yet I generally don't comment on ones opinions...
I try to be positive force, inspired more by Yoda. Wait wrong MMO, I mean Bean who hopes to be a Admiral in Starfleet; if only he could unlock Time Travel to the 25th Century.
> @strathkin said: > I mean I spend a great deal of my time on first trying to understand what they are saying first and foremost, and often ask questions to clarify if not in forums then in a private mail to them. > > Sometimes people have the own opinions (which I think is fine) about something they like or dislike, and there nothing wrong with that. I always however try to see things from both sides (I remember a song by Allison Moorer - Both Sides now) that I always liked. > > So I generally let people others say their opinions, and try hard to look at both sides, but generally don't comment on opinions... > > > > > I try to be positive force, inspired more by Yoda. Wait wrong MMO, I mean Bean who hopes to be a Admiral in Starfleet; if only he could unlock Time Travel to the 25th Century. > > > > You have a good day!
I also use very limited quotes as I generally only focus on the part of the conversation, idea, or synopsis that I liked; and I limit comments on things I disagree with, except to maybe say I disagree then shift to the parts I liked.
Som doesn't really allow for much in the way of focus on anything but his own response by selectively stripping quotes. It appears to be a highly effective but subtle strategy. It doesn't really allow for a productive conversation as you can't look at both sides for context.
I think that's why I rarely argue with the vast majority, as I mostly focus on agreements or similar idea's... ...if more people did that, there'd be a lot happier community for the most part.
I think we have a great community. Will do my best to be even more positive and happy in the future
I said nothing about profit from star trek online I'm not saying its closing anytime soon but I'm not sure the team is as big either, I find it odd if NW and STO are doing so well why didn't they just move the devs at least temporarily to help on STO and NW . Makes me wonder if cryptic the company isn't pulling enough profit margins for the parent company perfect world. The pandemic is also a likely factor in this whole ship lull thing too
Because that isn't how game development works... anywhere. The people who originally left to go work on Magic were replaced. Kael has mentioned this several times. With Magic closing down, they now have an excess of devs, so they fire the ones they no longer need.
Al Rivera has point blank admitted that, before all these new shows started coming out to give them more to work with, they were pretty much out of ideas for story arcs for STO, and only had a few story arc ideas left. Who would have guessed that after a decade of development you kinda have done most everything.
Star Trek has had hundreds of novels and comics written, 50+ years of fan fiction. If the creative team can't come up with ideas, then it's their problem and they need new people.
The problem with the various novelizations and comics is that they typically fall into some strange places as far as IP Rights, Licensing and Royalties. Far more complex than simply pulling from the episodes. Which themselves can have some complexities with how screwy the CBS/Paramount/Viacom/Secret Hideout rights can get.
If there is a dearth of new ship designs to bring in that is canon, and there is latitude to create new ones, then I hope they add new ships for existing species. They can add some new C-Store and Lockbox designs that can be really wild and creative. Give the Gorn a Raider. Let the Lukari advance some more with their ship designs and classes (a large exploration Cruiser for example to expand their research into the Gamma Quadrant for example). Change the Borg designs from Cubes and make them streamlined. Add in traits and consoles and you can keep the machine running for awhile til the shows catch up. Maybe even influence the shows to get creative as well. May lead to some pitching a fit but in the end evolution wait for no one.
Why would the Gorn, or any other subject race of the Klingon Empire, be conducting (or being permitted to conduct) further development of combat starships? Pretty sure the KDF spends a fair bit of their offscreen time making sure the lizards don't revolt against the Empire, given the presence of Gorn separatist elements elsewhere, and they're not going to let potential rebels develop ships that could be a threat to Imperial interests.
> @jonsills said: > Why would the Gorn, or any other subject race of the Klingon Empire, be conducting (or being permitted to conduct) further development of combat starships? Pretty sure the KDF spends a fair bit of their offscreen time making sure the lizards don't revolt against the Empire, given the presence of Gorn separatist elements elsewhere, and they're not going to let potential rebels develop ships that could be a threat to Imperial interests.
Influence from a outside source? Temporal shenanigans? With all the problems in the Empire it’s possible that they’re able to gain access, with help, to new technology they use to stage a rebellion. It would be a good test of L’Rell’s status and power. Or they could simply end up being given equal status within the Empire after the rebellion. Maybe they use the tech to come aid the Empire against the latest threat. With good writing anything is possible, especially if there’s leeway in how stories can be developed in STO versus the movies/tv shows. We all have come up with ideas as a forum community. Some plausible, others not so. And we’re not writers not getting paid; just fans. Sure those in charge could do better. The bigger issue is people letting go of what was and being willing to embrace what is.
Ladies and Gentlemen... due to the nature of the derailment, I pose to you that this thread may have run its course.
If there are no objections and a course correction back to the original topic, I'll be closing this later. If people wish to continue the CURRENT topic this thread has switched to, feel free to start a new thread.
If others agree that this thread can be closed, feel free to say so.
Comments
Staffing up then shedding staff and the use of contractors is something I've read about many times over the years at sites like ArsTechnica, Kotaku, Polygon, GamaSutra. It's not secret insider info.
For example: https://www.polygon.com/features/2016/12/19/13878484/game-industry-worker-misclassification
There are exceptions, like the Luna and Vesta (both from the books, originally) and the Hernandez (from the IDW comics)
I apologize I over looked those, but I do believe those took less development time then scaling did, but I don't know how their container system works. I'm hoping we get more big game play and system updates, its still been awhile. Even longer since we had a huge balance pass.
There is many of a story arc they could do with TNG stuff they never even touched on, heck even TOS and TMP era are pretty untapped. It's possible the team is having a bit of brain drain that can happen when you work on one project too long, but hopefully they allowing their team to do cross-colabs with other teams to reinvigorate their problem solving skills and frankly boredom that comes from long running projects. But again what ever the reason of this rut is with the game I hope they get past it and we get more ships, more balance passes, more systems, more content.
It can make for a lot of extra work and other issues when quotes aren't properly included or stripped out as above.
The person responding may have to back fill or attempt to re-insert proper quotes. Doing so wastes that persons time.
It can make a response difficult at best.
Conversations also run the risk of losing continuity or end up not having much meaning at all. This is what's been accomplished here.
It also provides the opportunity for pseudo-quotes or misquotes similar to what was done above with the spin comment or even asking questions about what point somebody was trying to make with a statement without providing it and the context in which it was said.
Cheers.
I think that's why I rarely argue with the vast majority, as I mostly focus on agreements or similar idea's... ...if more people did that, there'd be a lot happier community for the most part.
yes, you actually want to have a productive conversation. but unfortunately there are other people that only want to argue and debate and explain why everyone else is always wrong. i honestly feel sorry for them but maybe one day they can mature past that behaviour.
I think at the time they ONLY appeared in novels. While they were both accepted into canon due to the quality of the designs, they still had to include the original designer. The Luna got the boost it needed when the Titan appeared in Lower Decks. The Vesta, as I recall, was an abolute legal NIGHTMARE to get permission to use in game because it never appeared in anything but the books, hence why it took so long to get in the first place.
> I also use very limited quotes as I generally only focus on the part of the conversation, idea, or synopsis that I liked; and I limit comments on things I disagree with, except to maybe say I disagree then shift to the parts I liked.
>
> I think that's why I rarely argue with the vast majority, as I mostly focus on agreements or similar idea's... ...if more people did that, there'd be a lot happier community for the most part.
This should be in the “Surviving MMO Forums 101” symposium. Too many people fail to realize that facts and data are objective and subjective to interpretation. It seems that very few not only not take it time to understand how to interpret from another’s point of view, but look for any minuscule iota to bring out the superiority complex that ruins most forums. We’re all human and no one is right or correct 100% of the time.
What really bugs me is that people are going to war over their beliefs yet don’t have not one full blow interaction(s) with the only people who can state fact with absolution: Cryptic/PWE/CBS-Paramount. It amazes me the lengths folks go to try to be “right and perfect” when, in all actuality, they’re still in equal footing as the person they’re trying to take down. It’s easy to skip something that you don’t agree with. Not every response deserves a response. The art of discussion/debate is lost these days.
I mean I spend a great deal of my time on first trying to understand what they are saying first and foremost, and often ask questions to clarify if not in forums, then in a private mail to them.
Sometimes people have the own opinions (which I think is fine) about something they like or dislike, and there nothing wrong with that. I always however try to see things from both sides (I remember a song by Allison Moorer - Both Sides now) that I always liked.
So I generally let people others say their opinions, and try hard to look at both sides for context, yet I generally don't comment on ones opinions...
I try to be positive force, inspired more by Yoda. Wait wrong MMO, I mean Bean who hopes to be a Admiral in Starfleet; if only he could unlock Time Travel to the 25th Century.
You have a good day!
> I mean I spend a great deal of my time on first trying to understand what they are saying first and foremost, and often ask questions to clarify if not in forums then in a private mail to them.
>
> Sometimes people have the own opinions (which I think is fine) about something they like or dislike, and there nothing wrong with that. I always however try to see things from both sides (I remember a song by Allison Moorer - Both Sides now) that I always liked.
>
> So I generally let people others say their opinions, and try hard to look at both sides, but generally don't comment on opinions...
>
>
>
>
> I try to be positive force, inspired more by Yoda. Wait wrong MMO, I mean Bean who hopes to be a Admiral in Starfleet; if only he could unlock Time Travel to the 25th Century.
>
>
>
> You have a good day!
Great inspirations 😂
I think we have a great community. Will do my best to be even more positive and happy in the future
The problem with the various novelizations and comics is that they typically fall into some strange places as far as IP Rights, Licensing and Royalties. Far more complex than simply pulling from the episodes. Which themselves can have some complexities with how screwy the CBS/Paramount/Viacom/Secret Hideout rights can get.
> Why would the Gorn, or any other subject race of the Klingon Empire, be conducting (or being permitted to conduct) further development of combat starships? Pretty sure the KDF spends a fair bit of their offscreen time making sure the lizards don't revolt against the Empire, given the presence of Gorn separatist elements elsewhere, and they're not going to let potential rebels develop ships that could be a threat to Imperial interests.
Influence from a outside source? Temporal shenanigans? With all the problems in the Empire it’s possible that they’re able to gain access, with help, to new technology they use to stage a rebellion. It would be a good test of L’Rell’s status and power. Or they could simply end up being given equal status within the Empire after the rebellion. Maybe they use the tech to come aid the Empire against the latest threat. With good writing anything is possible, especially if there’s leeway in how stories can be developed in STO versus the movies/tv shows. We all have come up with ideas as a forum community. Some plausible, others not so. And we’re not writers not getting paid; just fans. Sure those in charge could do better. The bigger issue is people letting go of what was and being willing to embrace what is.
If there are no objections and a course correction back to the original topic, I'll be closing this later. If people wish to continue the CURRENT topic this thread has switched to, feel free to start a new thread.
If others agree that this thread can be closed, feel free to say so.