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Can closing a thread please not be a unilateral decision?

kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
I might get thrown into jail for this, but I do feel that some mods are abusing their positions and closing threads based on their own personal opinions and biases, which is too much power for one person.

I really feel that to close a thread, not just delete a comment, but to actually shut down an entire conversation, should not be the unilateral decision of someone who hasn't even been elected "by the people" using the forum to have a rational discussion.

It should take more than one mod to close a thread and there should also be an appeals process for reopening it.

That's just my opinion though.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments

  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,331 Arc User
    kayajay wrote: »
    I might get thrown into jail for this, but I do feel that some mods are abusing their positions and closing threads based on their own personal opinions and biases, which is too much power for one person.

    I really feel that to close a thread, not just delete a comment, but to actually shut down an entire conversation, should not be the unilateral decision of someone who hasn't even been elected "by the people" using the forum to have a rational discussion.

    It should take more than one mod to close a thread and there should also be an appeals process for reopening it.

    That's just my opinion though.

    Forums are not a democracy, they are 'privately' run. You have no right to infer that people should be 'elected by the people'. If you have an issue, take it to Kael or privately message the mod who shut it down.
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  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    It's not necessarily the decision of a single person. Rattler usually makes it clear that he confers with the other mods.

    And the rules are pretty clear. Silly, at times like the no-necroing one, but clear. There really isn't that much room for discretion, so there isn't that much individual power.
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  • alcyoneserenealcyoneserene Member Posts: 2,412 Arc User
    OP, I did reach out about that very issue and was directed towards Community@crypticstudios.com. Please gather sufficient evidence and submit it to them, and specifically how it bypasses the T&C. I've moderated a non-gaming forum before and do take issue at times, but feel that it has not happened enough nor has it personally affected me or my few topics to need to bother them about it, yet, and the issue I find is very limited as almost all here seem just fine.
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  • eazzieeazzie Member Posts: 3,980 Arc User
    edited July 2021
    The main reasons threads ares closed are

    Necro (except bug reports they are never necro'ed. A necro is a thread 30 days and over old.
    Duplicate threads
    If the OP requests it
    Rant threads (these are not permitted period)
    Threads that get derailed with flamming and trolling posts
    Threads that get derailed in general. If you can't keep on topic then the thread is closed.

    Questioning moderation is also against forum policy.
    Post edited by eazzie on
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 5,406 Arc User
    edited July 2021
    Closing a thread is not a unilateral decision. Under Galactic News Network and in the sticky Community Rules and Policies in that section you can read why threads are closed. Another thread of interest is the FCT 2.0 thread in General Discussion. It has nothing to do with a mod having a vendetta against someone, their point of view, or opinion. There are times when a mod speaks as a player and other times when they speak as a moderator. If there is a case of a mod abusing their position, there is a process and that person would be dealt with and it has happened once in the past. I have not always agreed with mods myself and their decisions but I believe that we as a community should help them to do their job (that does not make me a moderator) instead of butting heads with them or attacking them as others have. Instead of making their job more difficult as a keeper of the peace. Thanks. :)
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,973 Community Moderator
    eazzie wrote: »
    The main reasons threads ares closed are

    Necro (except bug reports they are never necro'ed. A necro is a thread 30 days and over old.
    Duplicate threads
    If the OP requests it
    Rant threads (these are not permitted period)
    Threads that get derailed with flamming and trolling posts
    Threads that get derailed in general. If you can't keep on topic then the thread is closed.
    ^This^

    We don't just close them because we feel like it. I'll try and cover each point as best I can.
    • Necro: As mentioned above, anything over 30 days that has not been posted in is generally considered Necro and is closed. To my understanding that is to ensure that relevant topics remain in the spotlight. Gets pretty confusing when you respond to a thread from five years ago about something that's not in game anymore.
    • Duplicate Threads: Cuts down on clutter as... why do we need multiple threads on the same subject. They are either closed or merged to consolidate.
    • OP Request: Self Explanitory.
    • Rant Threads: Hostile subjects that basically devolve into "I don't agree with this quite aggressively and here is my laundry list of grievences" is not allowed. Same with "I Quit" threads. They serve no purpose other than to cause drama, and generally attract the wrong kind of attention. In this case its keeping the peace to close those threads.
    • Derailed Threads via flame/troll: Having a serious discussion is one thing. Flipping it on its head to cause a riot or just to cause chaos is not really welcome. If it gets so far off track that it can't recover and the topic transforms into the flame or troll... no point trying to correct course. Might as well put it out of its misery.
    • Derailed in general: Similar to the above point, but less aggressive in nature. If the subject changes, please make a new thread or request that it get split off into a new thread. No need to clutter an older thread with a new subject as only the people who have responded to it will know of the subject shift.

    As the rookie of the Mod Team I do try and confer with the more experienced mods if I feel uncomfortable trying to figure out something on my own. And in some cases if I feel that a thread has run its course and its going nowhere, like if an argument is just going around and around with no end in sight, I'll either say so and close it, or give advance warning that it is going to be closed by asking if some of the others also feel that way.

    I'm probably more diplomatic about things, but at the end of the day... there's only so much we can do because... there's currently only three of us Mods and unless we're exercising our Mod Powers, we're no different than you guys. We're not employees, we're volunteers. And we may have opinions of our own on subjects that doesn't reflect our status as mods. That's why whenever I post with the "mod hat" on to get attention, I change the color of the font to demonstrate this is me on duty. Otherwise... I'm generally just speaking as a fellow forumite. I may ask people to tone things down in hopes that just being around will head off any trouble, but I usually don't pull out the Mod Mode Color unless I want to be sure people notice. And I picked a color that I know will be noticed on the default settings for the forum, which tends to be a dark theme.

    Our ability to handle things as mods can be helped by forum users reporting things to bring it to our attention. In some cases we'll decide the action needed. In others we'll investigate, and even bring in the Community Manager into the discussion to figure out our next move depending on how big it is.

    If you would like a response from darkblade or wingedhussar to go into more detail, feel free to @ them. I'll even poke them myself to bring them in if necessary.
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  • trekfangrrrl#6910 trekfangrrrl Member Posts: 111 Arc User
    The last time one of the hall monitors was going completely off the rails and removing posts they disagreed with (but weren't breaking any rules) a few people tweeting Kael and he came and put the smack down on them. If you see a hall monitor abusing their power tweet Kael and hopefully he will deal with it.
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 2,666 Bug Hunter
    edited July 2021
    As a extended member of the Volunteer community, both Bug Hunters (seagreen) & Community Moderators (forestgreen) are similar color even if their abilities are different. I do know that darkblade, rattler, and many others try very hard! Most often they will just remove the comments &/or graphic's that they feel go too far, and replace with a warning. If it's just a question of bad etiquette -- they won't issue a warning, just on rare occasion will say -- point made (without removing comment &/or graphic) please move on.

    I think most of our MODs do a very good job, and are very fair! Wanted to make that clear.
    eazzie wrote: »
    The main reasons threads are closed are

    Necro (except bug reports they are never necro'ed. A necro is a thread 30 days and over old.
    Duplicate threads
    If the OP requests it
    Rant threads (these are not permitted period)
    Threads that get derailed with flamming and trolling posts
    Threads that get derailed in general. If you can't keep on topic then the thread is closed.

    Questioning moderation is also against forum policy.

    I mean most do their best to let people criticize, long as it's not overly negative. Most however don't want underhand swings, or personal attacks, and that's where I've seen shutting threads down. The one rare exception is Necro threads (30 days or older) which apply to most threads except Bug Forums, or perhaps Ten Forward (edited from Academy) depending how well it applies...

    So I've always replied trying to focus on the positive I've liked, while mostly ignoring those things I don't. If I have a criticism I start with that first yet make it very brief perhaps to just say I disagree; then shift focus to things I liked so it leaves a good feeling with the reader. I also try to use more limited quotes, cause I know if people want to go back and read they can, just as many can read between the lines...

    If a few more did this, not just in our forums but all public discourse, we'd see a happier community as a whole! <3
    Post edited by strathkin on
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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,501 Arc User
    eazzie wrote: »
    The main reasons threads ares closed are

    Necro (except bug reports they are never necro'ed. A necro is a thread 30 days and over old.
    Duplicate threads
    If the OP requests it
    Rant threads (these are not permitted period)
    Threads that get derailed with flamming and trolling posts
    Threads that get derailed in general. If you can't keep on topic then the thread is closed.

    Questioning moderation is also against forum policy.

    You and rattler missed one :smile:

    * Thread no longer applies (Cryptic fixed whatever it was)

    See the closed vanguard sale thread. Or in the past, event bugs, other sale bugs, gear bugs, blog typos, ....

    I haven't had any complaints with the moderation, especially while I'm sitting back and letting other people do that work as volunteers. The mods here let people get away with a reasonable amount of venting while shutting it down if it goes over the line.

  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 2,666 Bug Hunter
    edited July 2021
    Personally I like when they merge two very similar discussions.

    I mean we have this one: July 21st
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1262765/new-promo-ship-courage-class-from-dsc-s3

    Then this one on a similar subject: July 22nd.
    https://www.arcgames.com/en/forums/startrekonline/#/discussion/1262778/the-32nd-century-courage-command-science-destroyer-t6/

    Sometimes they won't, depends how they feel about what they read or saw in each.
    Post edited by strathkin on
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    Rattler has done a good job and been fair as a moderator.

    No further comment beyond that.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    When we close threads, it's not purely due to our own opinions but for many of the reasons my cohort named above.

    Necro - the necro posting rule is in place because as said above, it can get confusing for people if they respond to a 5 year old thread about something that's no longer in game, or something that's been changed. one example being someone responding to a post about a cstore sale from years ago wondering why it's not active. Thus why there is the 30 days since last active post rule. There are a few exceptions that have been granted to this rule in the 10 Forward section as prime examples. If you think your thread should be exempted from Necro rules then you are free to ask for it and argue your case. Bug report threads in the bug report section are the only other exception to the rule as it allows us to keep track of certain bugs easier.

    Duplicate threads - cuts down on clutter so folks can navigate the forums easier, and that could prevent us from rendering assistance when necessary. hard to navigate the forums when there's a billion different copies of one thread.

    OP requeust - self explanatory

    Rant/I QUIT - not permitted under any circumstance. Rants generally have no rime or reason to them, nor do they present any kind of logical argument for or against anything, but are simply someone trying to have their moment at a microphone. Thoughts presented logically and with facts are one thing, but rants are another entirely.

    Derailed general - as my cohort said, if a thread has derailed or the subject has changed, make a new thread as hijacking threads isn't cool.

    Derailed flame/troll aka flame fests - not really much to say. busting out flamethrowers and attacking other users isn't permitted.

    Discussion of moderation - this is for a number of reasons with the biggest reason being it concerns actions taken against another person's account and protects both sides.


    If folks feel that they have been unfairly moderated they can message us an ask us to reconsider, or make an appeal to Kael who will have the final say. This is also why we document what we do incase issues arise.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
    I dunno maybe it's a wrong impression, but often when I see threads like this I get the impression that people are actually complaining about valid moderation they think should not apply to them and them alone.

    For example it's known that gatekeeping threads get locked, but these people think that they (or in this case people who agree with them, though only when they do agree with them) should be allowed to gatekeep while those who disagree with them should be locked aka the mod team and by extension Cryptic should Gatekeep for them.

    Note that I'm not accusing anyone here just defining the impression I get with threads like this.
  • captainrebel78#5049 captainrebel78 Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    There is also slight confusion about when a player is directed to post something to the forum by support and then the post is closed because it was a duplicate from X time back. However, I think that also come with a post being created in the wrong category.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    There is also slight confusion about when a player is directed to post something to the forum by support and then the post is closed because it was a duplicate from X time back. However, I think that also come with a post being created in the wrong category.

    This has been a problem for a while.

    People are directed to post here, but new posters can't create threads. That usually leads to them searching for a similar issue and posting in that thread which is then closed because forum rules do not allow you to post in any thread that has been dormant for 4 weeks or more.

    And if they post in any other thread, they're derailing it with an off topic post.

    This is tough to get around, if you allow everyone to just sign up and make threads, you get spam. If you remove the necro rules then threads get pulled from the ether and never die.

    The only way I can see around this is that new users first created thread should go to a moderator for approval before being posted, but that's more work for moderators.
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  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    There is also slight confusion about when a player is directed to post something to the forum by support and then the post is closed because it was a duplicate from X time back. However, I think that also come with a post being created in the wrong category.

    This has been a problem for a while.

    People are directed to post here, but new posters can't create threads. That usually leads to them searching for a similar issue and posting in that thread which is then closed because forum rules do not allow you to post in any thread that has been dormant for 4 weeks or more.

    And if they post in any other thread, they're derailing it with an off topic post.

    This is tough to get around, if you allow everyone to just sign up and make threads, you get spam. If you remove the necro rules then threads get pulled from the ether and never die.

    The only way I can see around this is that new users first created thread should go to a moderator for approval before being posted, but that's more work for moderators.

    I once started a Captain Proton thread, which I had a lot more points to make about...but I'd been told off and put in bars for posting on that first thread once before, so I started another and I've again got some points to make...but I also know that I'm going to be told off for posting on either of them.

    It's such a shame when it's an ongoing issue, which new people also want to contribute to, but it's considered heinous to comment on a thread that so many people contributed to already.

    That definitely shouldn't be a rule.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    To address a couple concerns I see in here. When folks are told to post on the forums by support, they're often told to post in the bug reporting sections, but that's not what they do most of the time. Most of the time it's in Gen Disc or another inappropriate area. Thus it gets moved or locked depending on if there was an already active thread. If there is already an active bug report thread on the issue, there is no need for multiple threads as that just clutters the forums and makes it harder for devs and us to see other issues that may be needing help. The problem is that they were told to post in the bug reporting areas, but they failed to follow instructions.

    Next, if folks feel a thread should be exempt from the necroposting rule, then they need to message one of the team and ask that it be exempted from the rule. The team will look over your thread and discuss it as folks would expect, and either grant or deny the request based on merits. If you want a post exempted from the necro rule but don't ask for it, then we can't help you on that one. If you think your thread should be exempted then ask, as we're not mind readers.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • captainrebel78#5049 captainrebel78 Member Posts: 61 Arc User
    edited July 2021
    I understand what darkbladejk is saying. Looking from an end-user perspective and possibly from the perspective of someone who has no experience with a forum: when you are instructed by support to do something (even if it is inadvertently put in the wrong place), it gives the impression that the concern being posted is invalid when it is closed. Also, there seems to be a "feed back loop" in regards to old issues vs new issues. Users aren't supposed to comment on a post that is old if they are experiencing the same issue; but, aren't supposed to create a new post for an issue that is one going more than 30 days old. I fully admit that I am not nor do I ever want to be a forum moderator. Having said that: it has the potential to get confusing: especially for new players or new forum members.

    As an example: in the past I have attempted to post issues that I have had regarding tailor issues (i.e. outfit pieces not being available, various skin pattern issues, etc). When the post was created in the bug section: it was closed saying this was reported on another post. Ok... So then, one would think that it would be sense to comment on that post to say "I am experiencing this issues as well" or attempt to let someone know that this issue is still on going.

    I will use myself as an example in this case.

    I email support regarding a bug. Support replies back saying to post it to the forum.
    I make a post to the forum regarding the issue.
    I receive a reply that my issue was posted by someone else on xxxxxxxxxxxxxx post and that my post is being closed. (The issue is not addressed at that point).
    I then click the link provided to "add my name to the list" as someone who is also having this problem. The post is over 30 days old at that point. Necro post!! Don't comment.

    So, I am not supposed to create a post regarding my issue because the issue I am experiencing was reported by someone else; but, I am instructed to create a post by support with them not knowing that the issue had previously been reported by someone else and is now a "necro" post.

    I am sure everyone can see how confusing that can be. I can imagine that moderating a forum isn't easy; but, perhaps there needs to be a different way to track or report bugs in the game versus using the forum to do so. Perhaps a post regarding a bug shouldn't be considered "necro" until it is resolved. If it resolved and then happens again: it should be reopened.

    This might be a poor analogy; but, it most "help desk" environments: if a "ticket" is submitted for a problem, it is considered a new issue. If the issue is on going: the ticket is closed with the reply that "This is an issue reported by xxxxxx user and your comments will be added as follow up." If the issue is resolved: great and the ticket is closed. If the issue is resolved and then happens again. A new ticket is submitted reporting the same issue. You don't go back and say: oops... This was addressed 90 days ago and your ticket is being closed. Then you go back to the original ticket as say "Sorry, I am still having this problem." A "help desk" individual would not say "necro" ticket. They would reopen it for further investigation and follow up.

    I know the forum is NOT that same as a "help desk" system; but, when it comes to reporting bugs and other in-game issues: that is the way it is being treated. Yes, I don't know all the inner workings of the forums; but, from some one on the outside looking in who does not have regular experience with the forums: I would hope someone can understand where the end user is coming from.

    I myself only visit the forums to flow patch notes and to see if/when the next event is going to happen. I try to avoid posting what I think are "new issues" for not wanting to be one of "those people." In the past I have been instructed by support to make a post to the forum. I did as instructed; but, "issues" arose with who, what, and where. Now, if I email support with an issue and they request that I post it to the forum: I ask the ticket to be closed for the above mentioned reasons. I am not trying to place blame or accuse anyone of anything with this. All I am saying is that it breeds frustration when you are asked by one group/person to do something and another person/group takes "fault" with it. It breeds a vicious cycle of resent in some cases between what support tells a person to do versus what someone on the forum tells a person to do.
    Post edited by captainrebel78#5049 on
  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    To address a couple concerns I see in here. When folks are told to post on the forums by support, they're often told to post in the bug reporting sections, but that's not what they do most of the time. Most of the time it's in Gen Disc or another inappropriate area. Thus it gets moved or locked depending on if there was an already active thread. If there is already an active bug report thread on the issue, there is no need for multiple threads as that just clutters the forums and makes it harder for devs and us to see other issues that may be needing help. The problem is that they were told to post in the bug reporting areas, but they failed to follow instructions.

    Next, if folks feel a thread should be exempt from the necroposting rule, then they need to message one of the team and ask that it be exempted from the rule. The team will look over your thread and discuss it as folks would expect, and either grant or deny the request based on merits. If you want a post exempted from the necro rule but don't ask for it, then we can't help you on that one. If you think your thread should be exempted then ask, as we're not mind readers.

    Well, what would be great is that if someone does post in the wrong place, that a mod could move the post or maybe add something to the title like "BUG" for that kind of thread, instead of people piling in on them and making them feel shocking for daring to have made a mistake.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    So, I am not supposed to create a post regarding my issue because the issue I am experiencing was reported by someone else; but, I am instructed to create a post by support with them not knowing that the issue had previously been reported by someone else and is now a "necro" post.
    Bug reports in the bug reporting section are already exempt from the necroposting rule as outlined above. This allows us to track the life of a bug and potential return of said bug should it happen. When people are instructed to come to these forums they are instructed to post in the bug reporting area. It's also incumbent on them to familiarize themselves with forum rules and know where they're posting. I don't mind helping someone know where to go and direct them to the right place, but they have to put forth some effort themselves.
    kayajay wrote: »
    Well, what would be great is that if someone does post in the wrong place, that a mod could move the post or maybe add something to the title like "BUG" for that kind of thread, instead of people piling in on them and making them feel shocking for daring to have made a mistake.
    We already move bug report threads that are in the wrong place. If there is a duplicate thread already existing we will either merge the threads together or we close the duplicate depending on circumstance of each thread. With that said it's also incumbent on people to know where they're posting and be familiar with forum rules. If they are unsure of something they can ask and we will clarify for them.

    On that point of knowing where to post, bug reporting is not permitted in the Gen Disc section of the forums for several reasons. First of which is that Gen Disc can move very quickly at times. This can easily push bug reports far down on the list and prevent myself, my cohorts, or the devs themselves from seeing the report, and getting that person the help they need. This is why the bug reporting forums exist, to keep bug reports in an orderly place, with the working assumption that people posting in those forums are either seeking help, or are trying to give help to others. Otherwise we will do what we have to do in order to enforce rules.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • faxmachine#9639 faxmachine Member Posts: 120 Arc User
    With that said it's also incumbent on people to know where they're posting and be familiar with forum rules...

    With that said it's also incumbent on people to know where they're posting and be familiar with forum rules.

    Incumbent!

    Incumbent!

    Incumbent!

    I know you guys have a job to do and I know it's not always easy, but please at least try to sound like a human being with a heart and soul and not a heartless robot like me (faxmachine). That would honestly go a long ways, IMO.

    A few other good points people have made:

    *Please stick to the actual forum rules as written and leave personal opinions and preferences out of things.

    *When you do have to close a thread please avoid the temptation to get in some snarky "last word".

    IMHO a mod also shouldn't be engaging in normal conversation using their mod account. IMO a mod account should only be used for actual moderation. But when mods get into debates and things using their mod account, the temptation is going to be too great to start censoring opinions they disagree with. It's happened on this forum before.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    *When you do have to close a thread please avoid the temptation to get in some snarky "last word".

    Agreed, such a distasteful practice and it clearly violates the spirit of what a moderator is for.
    IMHO a mod also shouldn't be engaging in normal conversation using their mod account. IMO a mod account should only be used for actual moderation. But when mods get into debates and things using their mod account, the temptation is going to be too great to start censoring opinions they disagree with. It's happened on this forum before.

    While I see the point here, I can't say I fully agree. Moderators are not cryptic employees, they don't have power beyond moderation of the forums, so taking part in discussions as 'themselves' shouldn't seem intimidating to other posters. As long as the moderator is not using their moderator status to influence or direct the argument in their favor, then I don't see any harm. It seems an over reaction to force moderators to create alternate anonymous accounts just to share their opinions. Personally, I don't think this has been a problem on this forum, I have disagreed with forum moderators in discussions in the past and never felt any hesitancy to do so, nor was I ever unfairly reprimanded for doing so.
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • nccmarknccmark Member Posts: 1,083 Arc User
    I have to admit, I would have loved the irony of this thread being "unilaterally" closed before anyone had been able to post a reply
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    Regardless of what wording people choose to use, be it the word incumbent or something else, it doesn't change the fact that people are responsible for knowing the rules of the forum. If they don't learn them and run afoul as a result, that's purely their own doing.

    In cases where moderation has been necessary, most of the time this has been because of how a person chose to say something vs what they actually said. If a new feature was being proposed and someone says "I think this is a bad idea because (insert logical arguments here)" that's one thing and is perfectly fine. If someone responds to said person and says "I think you're wrong because (logical arguments here)" that's also perfectly fine. If someone says "you're wrong because you're just bad at the game and (insert long profanity laced illogical rant here)" that's something else entirely.

    Next, the green text next to my name doesn't preclude me from giving my thoughts as a player of the game, nor does it shield people from hearing opinions they may not like. Myself and @seaofsorrows have butted heads several times when it comes to our thoughts on game philosophy or other bits, yet he is still here. There is more than one of us for the simple fact it's difficult for one person to cover everything at all times, and so we have people we can confer with when making decisions. Something I may think breaks the rules or is offensive at first glance, the others may not and may catch something I missed that makes the difference, or vice versa. Hence why it is a team effort. If a person was going to abuse powers on this forum or any other, nothing would be stopping them from swapping accounts super fast, doing whatever they were going to do, and then swapping back. WingedHussar has a separate account from his mod account which was a decision he made because he wanted that extra bit of separation. He felt it better enabled people to tell if he was speaking as a mod or just a regular player. I never saw the need for it for myself, but that's a decision he made for himself and it's worked great for all of us for years.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,973 Community Moderator
    You guys will know when I'm speaking as a Mod when I use a different color text to ensure it draws attention. And some times I may also bold the text as well for emphesis.

    But when I don't do anything special like this... I'm not on duty and am no different than any forumite.

    I will also refrain from taking Mod action if I am involved in a debate or anything unless things cross a line. So if I start getting flamed by someone I'm in a debate with... I'll just stop responding entirely and ask one of the other mods to step in to avoid the appearance of Mod Retaliation "because I don't agree with an opinion". I will choose to recuse myself in that case and let wingedhussar or darkblade make the judgement call. I won't use my power to get the final word in an argument. Unless that word is thread being closed for reasons that I will generally elaborate on at that time. If I feel that inaccurate information is being given before a thread closure... I may be more inclined to try and give more accurate information in case someone else finds the thread... but other than that I'll generally just say that its run its course. I'm not going to use thread closure to win a debate or argument.

    So don't be afraid to interact with me as a normal forumite. Just be aware that if things do start getting out of hand, I will blow the ref whistle to get attention.

    I'm still learning, and I will admit I'm still the rookie. But I try to be fair, and... if I can't figure out who's to blame for something going sideways I'll just glare at both involved parties equally. I'm an equal opprotunity mod. Or at least I try to be.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 5,331 Arc User
    I understand what darkbladejk is saying. Looking from an end-user perspective and possibly from the perspective of someone who has no experience with a forum: when you are instructed by support to do something (even if it is inadvertently put in the wrong place), it gives the impression that the concern being posted is invalid when it is closed. Also, there seems to be a "feed back loop" in regards to old issues vs new issues. Users aren't supposed to comment on a post that is old if they are experiencing the same issue; but, aren't supposed to create a new post for an issue that is one going more than 30 days old. I fully admit that I am not nor do I ever want to be a forum moderator. Having said that: it has the potential to get confusing: especially for new players or new forum members.

    As an example: in the past I have attempted to post issues that I have had regarding tailor issues (i.e. outfit pieces not being available, various skin pattern issues, etc). When the post was created in the bug section: it was closed saying this was reported on another post. Ok... So then, one would think that it would be sense to comment on that post to say "I am experiencing this issues as well" or attempt to let someone know that this issue is still on going.

    I will use myself as an example in this case.

    I email support regarding a bug. Support replies back saying to post it to the forum.
    I make a post to the forum regarding the issue.
    I receive a reply that my issue was posted by someone else on xxxxxxxxxxxxxx post and that my post is being closed. (The issue is not addressed at that point).
    I then click the link provided to "add my name to the list" as someone who is also having this problem. The post is over 30 days old at that point. Necro post!! Don't comment.

    So, I am not supposed to create a post regarding my issue because the issue I am experiencing was reported by someone else; but, I am instructed to create a post by support with them not knowing that the issue had previously been reported by someone else and is now a "necro" post.

    I am sure everyone can see how confusing that can be. I can imagine that moderating a forum isn't easy; but, perhaps there needs to be a different way to track or report bugs in the game versus using the forum to do so. Perhaps a post regarding a bug shouldn't be considered "necro" until it is resolved. If it resolved and then happens again: it should be reopened.

    This might be a poor analogy; but, it most "help desk" environments: if a "ticket" is submitted for a problem, it is considered a new issue. If the issue is on going: the ticket is closed with the reply that "This is an issue reported by xxxxxx user and your comments will be added as follow up." If the issue is resolved: great and the ticket is closed. If the issue is resolved and then happens again. A new ticket is submitted reporting the same issue. You don't go back and say: oops... This was addressed 90 days ago and your ticket is being closed. Then you go back to the original ticket as say "Sorry, I am still having this problem." A "help desk" individual would not say "necro" ticket. They would reopen it for further investigation and follow up.

    I know the forum is NOT that same as a "help desk" system; but, when it comes to reporting bugs and other in-game issues: that is the way it is being treated. Yes, I don't know all the inner workings of the forums; but, from some one on the outside looking in who does not have regular experience with the forums: I would hope someone can understand where the end user is coming from.

    I myself only visit the forums to flow patch notes and to see if/when the next event is going to happen. I try to avoid posting what I think are "new issues" for not wanting to be one of "those people." In the past I have been instructed by support to make a post to the forum. I did as instructed; but, "issues" arose with who, what, and where. Now, if I email support with an issue and they request that I post it to the forum: I ask the ticket to be closed for the above mentioned reasons. I am not trying to place blame or accuse anyone of anything with this. All I am saying is that it breeds frustration when you are asked by one group/person to do something and another person/group takes "fault" with it. It breeds a vicious cycle of resent in some cases between what support tells a person to do versus what someone on the forum tells a person to do.

    Emailing Support won't help with bugs. Support ONLY deals with Account issues. You should ALWAYS post in the Support Forums if it is a bug.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    You guys will know when I'm speaking as a Mod when I use a different color text to ensure it draws attention. And some times I may also bold the text as well for emphesis.

    But when I don't do anything special like this... I'm not on duty and am no different than any forumite.

    I will also refrain from taking Mod action if I am involved in a debate or anything unless things cross a line. So if I start getting flamed by someone I'm in a debate with... I'll just stop responding entirely and ask one of the other mods to step in to avoid the appearance of Mod Retaliation "because I don't agree with an opinion". I will choose to recuse myself in that case and let wingedhussar or darkblade make the judgement call. I won't use my power to get the final word in an argument. Unless that word is thread being closed for reasons that I will generally elaborate on at that time. If I feel that inaccurate information is being given before a thread closure... I may be more inclined to try and give more accurate information in case someone else finds the thread... but other than that I'll generally just say that its run its course. I'm not going to use thread closure to win a debate or argument.

    So don't be afraid to interact with me as a normal forumite. Just be aware that if things do start getting out of hand, I will blow the ref whistle to get attention.

    I'm still learning, and I will admit I'm still the rookie. But I try to be fair, and... if I can't figure out who's to blame for something going sideways I'll just glare at both involved parties equally. I'm an equal opprotunity mod. Or at least I try to be.

    You have done a good job, very fair.
    Insert witty signature line here.
This discussion has been closed.