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The Whale Probe.

ares523#1432 ares523 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
I just thought i'd come to discuss this since this has been driving me nuts constantly from every ingame event thats been released ingame and every youtube theory related to this so yea What would it be like if STO was graced with an appearence and ESD and the sol map where both challanged by the Whale Probe itself as in the same Whale Probe from Star Trek4 The Voyage Home? I mean think about it ESD and every ship in the sol map and round it as well as other maps being sapped of power?. Its simple I would call it O.P.Ed short for overpowered though there is one weakness and that weakness lies on the Starfleet Academy and the easter egg was mentioned by Elisa Flores in the opening tutorial when she mentiones the Whales in San Fran Sisco Bay.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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Comments

  • horridpersonhorridperson Member Posts: 665 Arc User
    The whale probe wasn't intended as a weapon. The aliens responsible for it built it on the assumption whale song was a prevalent Earth language and it was trying to communicate. The problem arose because the whales had become extinct by the time the probe reached Earth. With the introduction of George and Gracie to the 23rd century and the initial crisis averted we can assume the species was reintroduced and remains in the STO era. Flores did reference the whales in the tutorial and one of the monuments on the SFA grounds mentions the whales as well.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    It would be interesting to discover the origins of the Whale Probe though. And maybe even the Planet Killer. A lot of these seemingly ancient things that were showcased but never expanded upon. All we know right now is that there's been at least three Planet Killers (2 in STO and 1 from TOS).

    Might be worth an episode or two in game for each.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,593 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    It would be interesting to discover the origins of the Whale Probe though. And maybe even the Planet Killer. A lot of these seemingly ancient things that were showcased but never expanded upon. All we know right now is that there's been at least three Planet Killers (2 in STO and 1 from TOS).

    Might be worth an episode or two in game for each.

    Spock said the PK came from "outside" from beyond our galaxy. Maybe from one of the magellanic clouds?? one of those handy Iconian ship gates to go there would be fun
    awkward.jpg
    We Want Vic Fontaine
  • ares523#1432 ares523 Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    It would be interesting to discover the origins of the Whale Probe though. And maybe even the Planet Killer. A lot of these seemingly ancient things that were showcased but never expanded upon. All we know right now is that there's been at least three Planet Killers (2 in STO and 1 from TOS).

    Might be worth an episode or two in game for each.

    Spock said the PK came from "outside" from beyond our galaxy. Maybe from one of the magellanic clouds?? one of those handy Iconian ship gates to go there would be fun

    Interesting But I would speculate that Whoever constructed the Whale Probe came from an Ai several times more ancient yet more advanced than that of the Iconians let alone the Preservers
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    Still... it would make those Iconian Gates that are still around have more use.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • horridpersonhorridperson Member Posts: 665 Arc User
    Maybe the planet the Voyager probe visited is connected to Picard's synthetics. Spock hypothesized the planet was somewhere on the other end of space.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    While the V'ger/Borg connection isn't canon, its well known enough to appear in many things. Some books, specifically the William Shatner ones, some comics, specifically the Countdown ones after Nero escapes from the Klingons in the alternate 23rd Century, and Star Trek Legacy, where they literally say that V'ger CREATED the Borg.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    It makes you wonder...was the probe from a third party species, or a species that evolved from the whales.

    Maybe they evolved into say the Aquatic Zindi, the lifeform from Think Tank, or the Voth!

    Their probes were unstoppable and it would be terrific to explore that. Bring back Gillian, on a T6 Nova, off to find the origins of the whales...and maybe even with a whale onboard as emissary.

    They shouldn't be war-like, because I'm so sick of all these alien races being vicious and violent, but a true exploration mission into the unknown.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 11,001 Arc User
    It would be very Star Trek if they would be very dangerous and pose a imminent threat, which however is entirely unintentional. The whale probe didn't try to destroy anything, it was just trampling everything in it's way without being aware of it.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    It would be very Star Trek if they would be very dangerous and pose a imminent threat, which however is entirely unintentional. The whale probe didn't try to destroy anything, it was just trampling everything in it's way without being aware of it.​​

    Brilliant point. Their technology is either designed to nullify, but not kill, or that effect is entirely unintentional. There was no evidence that they were going to destroy Earth is the whales hadn't given them the all-clear. If anything, I think they would have just been heartbroken to know they were gone.

    It's such an interesting avenue to explore, because they could be a totally peaceful race...and that would be such a refreshing change to STO. Yeah, it's all about weapons, shields, armour, DPS...but Star Trek was always seeking out new worlds and new civilisations and coming in peace. I'm becoming exhausted with killing constantly and trying to be killed.

    You start a search for the race. You encounter a probe and have to work to get your systems back online. You have to communicate with them, etc...things that are challenging, with puzzles and plotlines, but that aren't all about slaughtering.

    It was bad enough having to stand idly by while an innocent Hur'q was killed right in front of me, not to mention the mission where you have no choice but to fire on innocent ships who were begging and pleading and live, but if I was ever asked to kill a whale in this game...I'd quit for good.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    kayajay wrote: »
    not to mention the mission where you have no choice but to fire on innocent ships who were begging and pleading and live...

    I think the point of that part of that particular mission was to show that the Tzenkethi Captain was just as disturbed by the actions of the Coalition. She objected as well, hence why she defected and is telling us what she saw of the Crusade from her point of view. The things that convinced her that the Crusade was not just. That, I believe, was the whole point. What made her turn against her own people. There's only so far you can go under the "just following orders" bit before you start questioning if those orders are just or not. Shooting down defenseless ships disturbed her. They were no threat. The Admiral insisting on wiping out a whole planet even though they did everything in their power to survive by giving the Tzenkethi what they wanted... was the last straw for her. The Admiral didn't care, the Autarch didn't care. All they wanted was dead worlds to stop the Drantzuli (Hur'q) and to hell with the consequences or anyone who stood in their way.

    Despite the "questionable" stuff in that mission... I actually feel it was a good case of character development. It showed that not all Tzenkethi agreed, and there was a reason for her defection besides "the plot demanded it of her".
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    kayajay wrote: »
    not to mention the mission where you have no choice but to fire on innocent ships who were begging and pleading and live...

    I think the point of that part of that particular mission was to show that the Tzenkethi Captain was just as disturbed by the actions of the Coalition. She objected as well, hence why she defected and is telling us what she saw of the Crusade from her point of view. The things that convinced her that the Crusade was not just. That, I believe, was the whole point. What made her turn against her own people. There's only so far you can go under the "just following orders" bit before you start questioning if those orders are just or not. Shooting down defenseless ships disturbed her. They were no threat. The Admiral insisting on wiping out a whole planet even though they did everything in their power to survive by giving the Tzenkethi what they wanted... was the last straw for her. The Admiral didn't care, the Autarch didn't care. All they wanted was dead worlds to stop the Drantzuli (Hur'q) and to hell with the consequences or anyone who stood in their way.

    Despite the "questionable" stuff in that mission... I actually feel it was a good case of character development. It showed that not all Tzenkethi agreed, and there was a reason for her defection besides "the plot demanded it of her".

    ...but I would have rather a cut-scene, or a multiple choice, where you either kill and feel remorse, or refuse and are punished for not doing it. I didn't like having to do it, to finish the episode.

    I know that with any game, you're solving the problem to win...but can't I have a problem to solve that requires skill and sometimes, a frustrating number of attempts and not just killing and killing and killing again?

    Absolutely there's a place for battles and I know that some people live for them...but I need STO to go back to being more intelligent. It's a cop out just to have waves on the ground and in space, of things to blow-up and stab.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    The problem is STO isn't as robust as TOR, which is known for its multiple choices. Due to how the game is made... its linear. And I doubt anyone wants a new mission that was basically just a movie. They want content they can play, not just watch. So that mission they split the difference. It was a lot more cutscene heavy than other episodes, but they allowed us to see WHAT got her to defect.

    I'm not saying you're wrong about how you feel about the mission. A lot of people feel the same way. From my perspective as a fanfic writer... its character development for the Tzenkethi Captain. Not everything is black and white, and Captain Parr DID object eventually. It was a gradual buildup to the objection, as seen from her perspective. Started with her being proud of her promotion and her new assignment, to her questioning why they had to be so aggressive towards things that weren't a threat, to being forced to throw away the lives of members of her crew, to watching as Admiral Terrak just cold blooded murdered a planet even after they gave the Tzenkethi what they wanted, justifiying it as making sure they weren't hiding anything.

    Captain Parr couldn't take any more and that lead to her defection in the previous mission. Renegade's Regret is literally the whole reason for her defection, and threw her testimony to Captain LaForge and the player, the Khitomer Alliance is aware of just how far the Coalition was willing to go for their Crusade. It was her recent history, as told by her.

    Yea it was dark. But it was also deep. As they say... the Road to Hell is paved with good intentions. Captain Parr believed she was fighting to protect the Coalition, and the galaxy as a whole, but came to realize that the Coalition was being far to heavy handed and that perhaps not going it alone was the better option. An idealist who was horrified by the escalating brutality of her own people.

    In a way... Captain Parr was more inclined to try and use a surgical strike, with minimal damage to a planet when possible, whereas Admiral Tarrak was the epitomy of "when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail". And its entirely possible that Admiral Tarrak was never Admiral Tarrak at all, but the female Changeling the whole time trying to curb the coming Hur'q threat, and we know how some of the more traditional Founders are.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    Although...the Klingon crc made me personally feel like a spectator. I wasn't taking part or completing things myself and it was cut-scenes, dialogue and all I was there for was the space waves.

    I just personally didn't believe there was enough scope for the arc, or basic interest. If it had been a TOS era Klingon arc, then that would have been terrific, but we've had examples of STO continuing what's already happened in the films and the series.

    When there's been radically new and original content, it's tended to fall flat. I'm not going to bash the Lukari, but I didn't care for them. The Kobali and Iconian arcs are amongst the strongest STO ever produced and they came from single episodes of Voyager.

    A race of Khan's people who survived and evolved. The whale probe. "God" on the planet at the centre of the galaxy...those would be terrific things to explore and I wouldn't feel like a bystander if they were written well and gave us things to do. A fight against Khan's people would be terrific...maybe they backwards engineered their own ships, based on the Reliant. The whale probe race and that alien who wanted to merge with the ship and head off to do something. Was he like the Skin Of Evil and trapped there? Was he a force to be reckoned with, etc?

    Interaction, with right and wrong choices and things to do, not just witness or fight waves...that's what I personally would love as content.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
    kayajay wrote: »
    The Kobali and Iconian arcs are amongst the strongest STO ever produced and they came from single episodes of Voyager.
    The Iconians were from TNG and DS9, not Voyager. And the Kobali arc was a fusion of the VOY episodes "Ashes to Ashes"(Kobali), Dragon's Teeth(the Vaadwaur), and Deadlock(dead Harry Kim)

    Those were in the end also fairly generic, much of the Kobali arc was really at its core a generic "defend an allied colony world" story which could have been any race. The Vaadwaur were for a the most part a generic "fanatical enemy you can't reason with", with a fairly simple defector aspect added to it.

    I'm not saying this to bash Cryptic but to say that there was actually not that much new lore or story invented there, so what worked there might not work elsewhere.

    As for the Iconians, well they were essentially a black box as far as lore went, we literally knew practically nothing about them (and even the stuff we did know was mostly guesses so storywise they were essentially a Cryptic creations giving them much more freedom unlike with most of the suggestions here.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    "God"... at least in the Q Continuum books, was revealed to be a being on the same level as a Q, but was punished by the Continuum and imprisoned in the center of the galaxy. The Great Barrier is the prison, just like the Galactic Barrier was made to keep something... or someone OUT of the galaxy. That trilogy also revealed that the entity that fed off negative emotions encountered by Kirk... was also connected to "God" and the entity outside the galaxy.

    So... blame Q for everything. lol
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    Q also caused the Chicxulub event.​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

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    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


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  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 10,501 Arc User
    edited July 2021
    Slight derailment: from the subject, I expected this to be about gathering intel on STO's big spenders :)

    You can't fight the higher beings like the Qs, the Squire of Gothos, the Organians, and so on except on their terms where they decide to give you to a chance to "win" in a game of their choosing. So not really winning at all. We got a version of that with the Michael Burnham episodes with the clip show "judging your worth" many shows have done as filler. (Most amusingly in Stargate's case where one clip show included a clip from a previous clip show as one of the clips.)
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    edited July 2021
    The issue of actually fighting against a non-corporial being was best demonstrated in Babylon 5. In the episode Falling Toward Apotheosis they decide that the replacement Vorlon Ambassador has to go because of the ongoing war between the Vorlons and Shadows, and that the younger races can't really coordinate to end the cycle because the Ambassador is basically spying on them. Lorien explained that it was easy for the Shadows to kill the previous Ambassador, Kosh, because they were both "First Ones". Both were on the same level. It would be a lot harder for the younger races to even hurt a Vorlon because they're not on the same level.

    In the ensuing battle, one single Vorlon was able to basically wipe the floor with MULTIPLE B5 Security teams equipped with PPG rifles, and even a massive energy discharge trap, which honestly did NOTHING to even the Encounter Suit until the Ambassador burst out of it himself. It wasn't until what was left of Ambassador Kosh emerged from Sheridan that anything actually happened.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    Ok, i just want to say that in game terms, i'm cosidered a whale, and i really dont want to be probed...
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,843 Arc User
    gaevsman wrote: »
    Ok, i just want to say that in game terms, i'm cosidered a whale, and i really dont want to be probed...

    its-probing-time_o_1511581.jpg
    Spock.jpg

  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    The issue of actually fighting against a non-corporial being was best demonstrated in Babylon 5. In the episode Falling Toward Apotheosis they decide that the replacement Vorlon Ambassador has to go because of the ongoing war between the Vorlons and Shadows, and that the younger races can't really coordinate to end the cycle because the Ambassador is basically spying on them. Lorien explained that it was easy for the Shadows to kill the previous Ambassador, Kosh, because they were both "First Ones". Both were on the same level. It would be a lot harder for the younger races to even hurt a Vorlon because they're not on the same level.

    In the ensuing battle, one single Vorlon was able to basically wipe the floor with MULTIPLE B5 Security teams equipped with PPG rifles, and even a massive energy discharge trap, which honestly did NOTHING to even the Encounter Suit until the Ambassador burst out of it himself. It wasn't until what was left of Ambassador Kosh emerged from Sheridan that anything actually happened.

    Ah, B5...I loved it, but where J. didn't think he was going to get his fifth and final season, he crammed it all into one and it really lost something.

    The Great Machine is now famously remembered as the Not So Great Machine. I personally didn't like the Vorlons becoming the bad guys. The Shadow War was so anticlimactic. Lorien...oh, but he annoyed me. Nothing against Tracey and she never did anything to deserve the hate she got, but it just wasn't the same without Ivanova. I adored Lyta and how she was altered, but I also would have loved to see how they would have taken Talia.
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    gaevsman wrote: »
    Ok, i just want to say that in game terms, i'm cosidered a whale, and i really dont want to be probed...

    its-probing-time_o_1511581.jpg

    Lol
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    kayajay wrote: »
    Ah, B5...I loved it, but where J. didn't think he was going to get his fifth and final season, he crammed it all into one and it really lost something.

    The Great Machine is now famously remembered as the Not So Great Machine. I personally didn't like the Vorlons becoming the bad guys. The Shadow War was so anticlimactic. Lorien...oh, but he annoyed me. Nothing against Tracey and she never did anything to deserve the hate she got, but it just wasn't the same without Ivanova. I adored Lyta and how she was altered, but I also would have loved to see how they would have taken Talia.

    I agree. Season 5 was a bit of a clusterfrak because the story was basically done in s4 but got a 5th season. And honestly Captain Lochley had potential, but due to how the season played out she wasn't even in all the episodes. And yea... Ivanova was a fan favorite.

    Season 5 did come across as a bit disjointed compared to the previous 4.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • kayajaykayajay Member Posts: 1,990 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    kayajay wrote: »
    Ah, B5...I loved it, but where J. didn't think he was going to get his fifth and final season, he crammed it all into one and it really lost something.

    The Great Machine is now famously remembered as the Not So Great Machine. I personally didn't like the Vorlons becoming the bad guys. The Shadow War was so anticlimactic. Lorien...oh, but he annoyed me. Nothing against Tracey and she never did anything to deserve the hate she got, but it just wasn't the same without Ivanova. I adored Lyta and how she was altered, but I also would have loved to see how they would have taken Talia.

    I agree. Season 5 was a bit of a clusterfrak because the story was basically done in s4 but got a 5th season. And honestly Captain Lochley had potential, but due to how the season played out she wasn't even in all the episodes. And yea... Ivanova was a fan favorite.

    Season 5 did come across as a bit disjointed compared to the previous 4.

    I've got such ideas for how Crusade should have gone...and also, how it could be revived now, but I'm always loathed to offer an idea up on a plate. (Remind me to tell you about that on the download). There really is just so much more that they could have done though :-(
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,969 Community Moderator
    Crusade had potential, but was hamstrung by being aired out of order so it came across as even more disjointed, which probably contributed to it only lasting one season.
    db80k0m-89201ed8-eadb-45d3-830f-bb2f0d4c0fe7.png?token=eyJ0eXAiOiJKV1QiLCJhbGciOiJIUzI1NiJ9.eyJzdWIiOiJ1cm46YXBwOjdlMGQxODg5ODIyNjQzNzNhNWYwZDQxNWVhMGQyNmUwIiwiaXNzIjoidXJuOmFwcDo3ZTBkMTg4OTgyMjY0MzczYTVmMGQ0MTVlYTBkMjZlMCIsIm9iaiI6W1t7InBhdGgiOiJcL2ZcL2ExOGQ4ZWM2LTUyZjQtNDdiMS05YTI1LTVlYmZkYmJkOGM3N1wvZGI4MGswbS04OTIwMWVkOC1lYWRiLTQ1ZDMtODMwZi1iYjJmMGQ0YzBmZTcucG5nIn1dXSwiYXVkIjpbInVybjpzZXJ2aWNlOmZpbGUuZG93bmxvYWQiXX0.8G-Pg35Qi8qxiKLjAofaKRH6fmNH3qAAEI628gW0eXc
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out many packs. The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • ucgsquawk#5883 ucgsquawk Member Posts: 279 Arc User
    B5 was written as a 5 year arc but was shut down in the 4th season requiring everything to be wrapped up (including a series finale episode...for me still the greatest series finale ever made) however another network picked it up to air another season at the last minute so they slapped together a season 5.

    One of my favourites as it had a storyline for all 5 years before any filming was ever done and had scenes from season one filmed specifically to show up in season 3/4.

    For myself it stands as one of the greatest SciFi shows ever made.
This discussion has been closed.