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Fleet Founders - Forceable Removal

maxx106maxx106 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
Hello everyone, I apologize if this question sounds stupid but I can't seem to find an answer anywhere.

Regarding fleet founders who seem to lose interest or stop playing. I know that other fleet members can kick those of higher rank after a certain amount of inactivity. How long does one have to be away before a fleet founder can be removed due to inactivity by other fleet members?

Comments

  • darpinkdarpink Member Posts: 340 Arc User
    Kick? I wouldn't kick them even if inactive. Maybe assume command or leadership of the fleet by way of demoting the inactive founders 1 rank, but I wouldn't kick them. JMHO
  • stonewallfleetstonewallfleet Member Posts: 97 Arc User
    After 30 days, someone of the second highest rank will be given the option to assume command. If no one is active in the second highest, I think it's another 30 days. The system is kinda complicated. The only page I could find about it is here: http://sto.perfectworld.com/blog/?p=976891
    We are proud to announce a new set of features that add significant security to Fleets and Fleet Leaders recently went live. With yesterday’s patch, we’ve implemented the final part of these updates, including more UI support.

    In the past, it was possible for a single Fleet Leader to demote and kick all other Fleet Leaders instantly and commandeer or even dismantle an entire Fleet. These new security updates are designed to heavily mitigate this risk.

    Here is the breakdown of the new Fleet Leader Security System and related Fleet systems:

    Ruleset 1 – Inactive Leader(s):
    Ruleset 1 is has always been in place and has not been modified. It is listed here for reference only.
    • If any Fleet Leader has not logged in for 30 days, that Leader is considered “Inactive.”
    • If all Fleet Leaders are “Inactive,” a new Fleet Leader is automatically chosen.
      • The next highest-rank player to log in is given an option to become the Fleet Leader.


    Ruleset 2 – Demoting a Leader (New!):
    • There must be at least 2 Leaders in a Fleet to initiate Ruleset 2.
    • Any Fleet Leader who is not flagged a “Demote Pending” or “Provisional” can initiate a “Demotion” on another Leader.
      • An Active or Inactive Leader can be flagged to be demoted.
    • A “Demote Pending” lasts 2 weeks (unless that Leader is Provisional – see info below).
      • If you are flagged as “Demote Pending”, you cannot use any Fleet Leader Powers.
    • Any Fleet Leader who is not flagged as “Demote Pending” or “Provisional” can “Reinstate” (remove a “Demote Pending” flag) the Leader to full status.
    • Only one “Demote Pending” can be in progress at a time.
    • No members can be promoted to Leader while a “Demote Pending” is active.
    • A Kicked Leader is not expelled from the Fleet — they are demoted.
    • Provisional Leaders:
      • New Leaders are considered “Provisional” for 2 weeks after they are promoted to Leader.
      • Provisional Leaders have all Leader Powers except they cannot “Demote” or “Reinstate” another Leader.
      • Provisional Leaders can be kicked instantly by any Fleet Leader who is not flagged a “Demote Pending” or “Provisional”.
      • Fleet Creator is not considered Provisional when the Fleet is first formed.
        • He or she is a full Leader with full Demote/ Reinstate privileges.
      • A Fleet Leader that is automatically chosen because all Fleet Leader are Inactive (Ruleset 1) is not considered Provisional. He or she is a full Leader with full Demote/ Reinstate privileges.

    NOTE: With the above changes, it is still possible to have a Fleet with only one Fleet Leader. In this case, the new system will not offer any additional security. In a Fleet that has only two Fleet Leaders, this new system offers minimal security – the only security it offers is the added benefit of a cooling off period. Ultimately, this system works best with a Fleet that has three Fleet Leaders or more.

    We hope you find these new updates beneficial, and we look forward to seeing you and your fleet in-game!
    ef60ddee6509cfb00c93237a0bfeec6b_large.png
  • athurrpewtyathurrpewty Member Posts: 23 Arc User
    I, personally, do not hoId the fleet founder position to be sacrosanct simply because *they* do. If any of your founder(s) are no longer occupying a place somewhere in the top 10 (or 5 or 3 depending on your fleet size) slot of any fleet holding leaderboard and they have gone inactive to the point of being able to demote them, kick them from the fleet. Why? Because if you demote a founder and they come back and you then promote them back to a fleet leader position they will kick you. I've seen it happen time and time again. It is human nature.
  • xtern1tyxtern1ty Member Posts: 796 Arc User
    I, personally, do not hoId the fleet founder position to be sacrosanct simply because *they* do. If any of your founder(s) are no longer occupying a place somewhere in the top 10 (or 5 or 3 depending on your fleet size) slot of any fleet holding leaderboard and they have gone inactive to the point of being able to demote them, kick them from the fleet. Why? Because if you demote a founder and they come back and you then promote them back to a fleet leader position they will kick you. I've seen it happen time and time again. It is human nature.

    I've seen that too and totally agree with the method, but leaders don't always kick each other. Our fleet XTERN1TY and larger STOAN network is living proof a cooperative system can succeed. We have multiple leaders with founders in our fleet, we know each other well, all get along with each other and work together peacefully. There has not been any serious issue at the leader level since one of our leaders chose to leave for his conflict of interest with troll groups. He would have been better off sticking with us for the longterm, but I respect his choice. No fellow leader I've worked with has ever stabbed me in the back in any guild I've run because I haven't given them any reason to.

    Human nature is reinforced by example. If we set the example of cooperation and fairness towards fellow leaders and members, they are likely to think and do the same back. Similarly, if someone is trying to do more than they can handle, they will not be fair towards others and associates will see with your experience and consequent wary thinking. Don't get me wrong, I am cautious too, but by not being afraid to put people to the proof, I get to see how they truly behave and take it on a person to person basis; not form limiting opinions based on past experience.

    Kicking a leader is designed to be difficult if it's being done without consent. Few realize it's actually an effective tool to keep leaders working together. It's been utilized in our fleet successfully and recently for Armada fleet leaders of the STOAN network. Single fleet leaders who've heard of our system have been appalled, how dare you, they've said; you're going to fail, they'll kick you etc... . They don't realize the risks are actually quite minimal, especially if you use the leadership system as a unifying tool combined with good judge of character and respect for fellow leaders.

    I've done it successfully and can tell you, it works. No one needs to be alone at the top of the ladder, not if you keep your friends with you like I have.

    maxx106 wrote: »
    Hello everyone, I apologize if this question sounds stupid but I can't seem to find an answer anywhere.

    Regarding fleet founders who seem to lose interest or stop playing. I know that other fleet members can kick those of higher rank after a certain amount of inactivity. How long does one have to be away before a fleet founder can be removed due to inactivity by other fleet members?

    If you're a leader with full power (not on probation), just demote and at the end of the time shown on the roster ( -7 days), the leader will be demoted. During that probationary time period, another leader may come on and cancel the demotion. Also, you may not demote any other leader while the timer is running. After demotion you may then rank the ex-leader or kick at will.

    Like @arthurpewty says, if you demote and they become active, don't re-rank unless you know them well, because at that point, they may motivated to revenge themselves. If you kick them, that goes double. Those rules universally apply unless you're an effective communicator like me and can empathize on their level to make them understand your reasons for the action and sincerity to cooperate again. If unsure, don't gamble with your fleet.

    ​​
  • tamujiintamujiin Member Posts: 321 Arc User
    edited August 2015
    Anybody that flatout goes inactive, deserves to either be demoted, or kicked. After 30 days. Most fleets have a channel, so my process is never kick from the channel, only from the fleet, and if they play the game again, re-instate them, if there is no hard feelings. Real Life things happen.

    Leaderboard TRIBBLE don't matter, because for the last two years, i couldn't contribute fleet marks to my fleet because of the fact we were busy around the clock, and i could not exactly leave my fleet. I covered doffs though. I also tried to help members get rich off those tier 5 magic projects they just nerfed, but no one wanted to take the time to fill duty officers, so i also used that, because nobody wanted to use it ( everyone knew it could lead to arguing and complaining and fighting over it, so we used it when necessary and that was it, we actually shared it without fighting about it once. )

    I agree though if a fleet leader is not contributing anything, they need to go, as they are blatantly using their members. And all members should watch the bank log, to make sure their leaders are not blatantly ripping them off either.

    And it takes 2 weeks to demote a rank 7. ALL rank 7s need to be inactive, and a rank 6 can "claim" the fleet, after 30 days of inactivity from ALL rank 7's. If your in a fleet with 1 Rank 7, as well, your "probably" in a fleet with a greedy TRIBBLE leader, and it would only get worse if they do not contribute to anything.... those are signs yer in a really junk fleet.
  • maxx106maxx106 Member Posts: 13 Arc User
    Hello everyone, the main reason why I was asking this question is because I was leaving on vacation and wouldn't have access to my STO account. I didn't want to have a lower ranking person kick me out when I was gone. Now that I am back it's sort of a mute point.
  • masonhunt19masonhunt19 Member Posts: 9 Arc User
    Hi i have a question, is this just for PC or all platforms and is it still current about the promotion and demotion of fleet leaders?
  • eazzieeazzie Member Posts: 3,979 Arc User
    edited July 2021
    I call upon the guardians of this realm to bring forth their powers and combine them as one to banish this monster to the nerherworld. Begone necromancer begone @darkbladejk @rattler2
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    away with ye foul zombieness (white lantern ring blast) /necro
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
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