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TFO - Remain Klingon

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  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,511 Arc User
    This is starting to get really annoying. It's been three weeks now, and some people are still not paying attention. I had one yesterday that totally ignored all my polite messages, both during the TFO and after, just derping around the Kristak. And the really infuriating part is that the game kept giving him the green circle over and over, even when I was closer.
    Its not all the players fault tough. I missed my triggers today as yet again all the makers and arrows was wrong/broken. I expect this event will stay broken until its over. How do you know the player was even seeing the notifications? He could well have the bug where the notifications are missing or pointing to the wrong place.
  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,433 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    This is starting to get really annoying. It's been three weeks now, and some people are still not paying attention. I had one yesterday that totally ignored all my polite messages, both during the TFO and after, just derping around the Kristak. And the really infuriating part is that the game kept giving him the green circle over and over, even when I was closer.
    Its not all the players fault tough. I missed my triggers today as yet again all the makers and arrows was wrong/broken. I expect this event will stay broken until its over. How do you know the player was even seeing the notifications? He could well have the bug where the notifications are missing or pointing to the wrong place.

    A legitimate point, I must reluctantly agree.

    And I must also admit that when all goes well, this is a satisfying TFO. Now that I've done it 30 times or so, I feel like I have a good handle on how it works. Twice today I have had a good run with a good team, when it all went slicker than catTRIBBLE on linoleum.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,511 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    This is starting to get really annoying. It's been three weeks now, and some people are still not paying attention. I had one yesterday that totally ignored all my polite messages, both during the TFO and after, just derping around the Kristak. And the really infuriating part is that the game kept giving him the green circle over and over, even when I was closer.
    Its not all the players fault tough. I missed my triggers today as yet again all the makers and arrows was wrong/broken. I expect this event will stay broken until its over. How do you know the player was even seeing the notifications? He could well have the bug where the notifications are missing or pointing to the wrong place.

    A legitimate point, I must reluctantly agree.

    And I must also admit that when all goes well, this is a satisfying TFO. Now that I've done it 30 times or so, I feel like I have a good handle on how it works. Twice today I have had a good run with a good team, when it all went slicker than catTRIBBLE on linoleum.
    It certainty is nice when it works. I just don't get why some players seems to get 90%+ smooth runs and others like myself are running at 50% bugged runs. There must be some unknown factor playing into if this goes wrong or not. I suspect its something to do with the ship being used but I am not entirely convinced.

    Then again I could be wrong and the player in question could just have been one of those types that ignored everything.

  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,433 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    This is starting to get really annoying. It's been three weeks now, and some people are still not paying attention. I had one yesterday that totally ignored all my polite messages, both during the TFO and after, just derping around the Kristak. And the really infuriating part is that the game kept giving him the green circle over and over, even when I was closer.
    Its not all the players fault tough. I missed my triggers today as yet again all the makers and arrows was wrong/broken. I expect this event will stay broken until its over. How do you know the player was even seeing the notifications? He could well have the bug where the notifications are missing or pointing to the wrong place.

    A legitimate point, I must reluctantly agree.

    And I must also admit that when all goes well, this is a satisfying TFO. Now that I've done it 30 times or so, I feel like I have a good handle on how it works. Twice today I have had a good run with a good team, when it all went slicker than catTRIBBLE on linoleum.
    It certainty is nice when it works. I just don't get why some players seems to get 90%+ smooth runs and others like myself are running at 50% bugged runs. There must be some unknown factor playing into if this goes wrong or not. I suspect its something to do with the ship being used but I am not entirely convinced.

    Then again I could be wrong and the player in question could just have been one of those types that ignored everything.

    No, I do not think you're wrong. I've been doing the TFO mostly in a Fleet Retrofit Research Science Vessel, that is the fleet retro version of the "Goldfish Bowl" or "Bubble Ship", with an X-upgrade added. With the engine from the Competitive rep, it's fast & nimble AF. And my KDF Tac with the Krenim Science Vessel & Competitive Engine does alright. But when I tried it with my KDF Engineer, who flies a Goktad carrier (the T6 version of the Kar Fi), things did not go all that well. There seemed to be notably more general weirdness. The experience is notably different depending on your ship.
  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 941 Arc User
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    This is starting to get really annoying. It's been three weeks now, and some people are still not paying attention. I had one yesterday that totally ignored all my polite messages, both during the TFO and after, just derping around the Kristak. And the really infuriating part is that the game kept giving him the green circle over and over, even when I was closer.
    Its not all the players fault tough. I missed my triggers today as yet again all the makers and arrows was wrong/broken. I expect this event will stay broken until its over. How do you know the player was even seeing the notifications? He could well have the bug where the notifications are missing or pointing to the wrong place.

    A legitimate point, I must reluctantly agree.

    And I must also admit that when all goes well, this is a satisfying TFO. Now that I've done it 30 times or so, I feel like I have a good handle on how it works. Twice today I have had a good run with a good team, when it all went slicker than catTRIBBLE on linoleum.
    It certainty is nice when it works. I just don't get why some players seems to get 90%+ smooth runs and others like myself are running at 50% bugged runs. There must be some unknown factor playing into if this goes wrong or not. I suspect its something to do with the ship being used but I am not entirely convinced.

    Then again I could be wrong and the player in question could just have been one of those types that ignored everything.

    No, I do not think you're wrong. I've been doing the TFO mostly in a Fleet Retrofit Research Science Vessel, that is the fleet retro version of the "Goldfish Bowl" or "Bubble Ship", with an X-upgrade added. With the engine from the Competitive rep, it's fast & nimble AF. And my KDF Tac with the Krenim Science Vessel & Competitive Engine does alright. But when I tried it with my KDF Engineer, who flies a Goktad carrier (the T6 version of the Kar Fi), things did not go all that well. There seemed to be notably more general weirdness. The experience is notably different depending on your ship.

    That's odd. I've done it on my Gok'tad a couple times, and while I know for certain I'd never be able to manage back-to-back targeting, I had no problem seeing the green target reticle on my ship, which ship to bring it to, and getting there in time (making sure I switched back and forth between engines and offensive power loads). I mean, I couldn't always *see* the dread, or the green circle around it, but the ever-present sparkle storm made sure I knew where to find it.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 3,117 Arc User
    edited June 16
    The worst is when someone pops one of the opaque plasma storms where there is a high probability of loosing sight of your own ship let alone the two dreads. Even the transparent version the Risan ship makes starts out with an annoying flash (though not as bad as the beacon) that can lose you a second or two while not being able to see the target indicator and arrow.
  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 36,248 Arc User
    Plasma Storm and Neutronic Eddies really are the two biggest culprits in making everything look like you're driving through a 'pea-soup' fog...at night...while on LSD...during an aurora, because those two effects cover your entire screen, no matter how zoomed out you are - most of the others, like grabbity well, subspace vortex, temporal vortex, VCIS, IT and so on are certainly very busy and in a lot of cases far too flashy, but they're still small enough to not cover the entire screen if you're fully zoomed out.

    And of course there's the Bacon of Kahless, which can easily lose you 5 seconds off the timer due to how long the flash lasts - thankfully, you get 30 to start.​​
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  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 9,382 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    So...tell me how you do that when BOTH ships are red circles with the arrow pointing at neither again?

    The answer to that is "Whichever ship is furthest from you." It might not seem obvious, but the two ships don't have overlapping fields of fire. The one closest to you will always be the one targeting you, and the one furthest from you will always be the one you need to fly towards to drop the target. So if you never stray far from the red circle area of a given ship, getting targeted always means fly to the other ship.

    Absolutely not true. I have, when the map is working normally have had the CLOSER ship be the one I need to get to. Now, not sure if sitting on top of one will prevent that one from being the one I need to get to...mainly because I do that when the map is a big old ball of flashing pixel vomit and I don't see jack...but I have for certain had to go to the closer ship before.

    I can assure you it might have seemed that way at the moment but that's not what happened. Well apart from the inevitable bugs, because that's always a possibility with STO. But no, you're not supposed to be targeted by the furthest ship, only the closer one. If you're flying out between them, there's a delay between when you get picked, when the buff/icon shows up, and the voice prompt tells you to move out. And in the blinding sparkle-bomb of STO's space combat, *WHEN* you got targeted is not always obvious, which makes determining *WHERE* you were when that happened difficult to impossible, particularly in the fast-moving ships best suited to this TFO.

    Unless the targeting delay is close to 40 seconds (the life of my improved GW that I was blowing stuff in)...once again, not true as I have been targeted to carry the mcguffin to the ship I was ABSOLUTELY closer to. If this is a bug...once again...how is that the player suppose to know than when things are not working as it should for the map? And if the bug issues that keeps you from know where to go wasn't bad enough, the sparkle bomb issue makes things worse. Oh and in case you somehow don't get the bug AND manage to see your ship long enough to know you need to drop off the mcguffin and where to do it, if you are in the fast ships like you said that is good for that on this map, it won't drop the damn thing off. So there is that joy too. Which is a shame because when this map doesn't bug out and the visual vomit is kept down so you can see what you need to do, it is a really fun map.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 2,315 Arc User
    many people close chat in the game. why? reasons.
    To be fair, I would close chat after seeing ESD and Beta Quad zone chat too if I wasn't used to it.

    i pay little attention to it, but keep it open for fleeties and friends...

    with that, i did the tfo two times again recently. visual vomit does make it difficult dependent on whats getting tossed out and when etc. i was able to see things more clearly in the second run as compared to the first. i also was not closest to the ship when targeted, so the supposed to not be targeted by the farthest ship is kangaroo dung.

    the event works, but this argument of trying to prove visual vomit is not a hinderance is laughable. id say of all the times ive been in it, the past two have been the best for gameplay. maybe people are not tossing out as mush spam as they were initially, dont know.

    as for the directional arrow....thats hit and miss. even in the past two runs, the arrow was useless in a way. i had to look around for the other ship and get my way back, and at some point the arrow showed up.

    anyway, it seems people may be getting the hang of it more.
    meh

  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,002 Community Moderator
    Alot of folks don't play the objectives and it's obvious they don't pay attention or simply don't care. It's especially infuriating when you get someone who refuses to hold off in UAA to close the errant rifts so everyone can get an extra hundred marks.
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  • corinthalascorinthalas Member Posts: 941 Arc User
    edited June 20
    many people close chat in the game. why? reasons.
    To be fair, I would close chat after seeing ESD and Beta Quad zone chat too if I wasn't used to it.

    i pay little attention to it, but keep it open for fleeties and friends...

    with that, i did the tfo two times again recently. visual vomit does make it difficult dependent on whats getting tossed out and when etc. i was able to see things more clearly in the second run as compared to the first. i also was not closest to the ship when targeted, so the supposed to not be targeted by the farthest ship is kangaroo dung.

    the event works, but this argument of trying to prove visual vomit is not a hinderance is laughable. id say of all the times ive been in it, the past two have been the best for gameplay. maybe people are not tossing out as mush spam as they were initially, dont know.

    as for the directional arrow....thats hit and miss. even in the past two runs, the arrow was useless in a way. i had to look around for the other ship and get my way back, and at some point the arrow showed up.

    anyway, it seems people may be getting the hang of it more.

    I've played this TFO over a dozen times, watched nearly every player being targeted, and I've never seen it go any other way. If you're targeted while the closest dread is the Targ, the Targ is the one targeting you, and you're supposed to fly to the Kri'stak, and vice versa. I have never seen a player closer to the Targ be targeted by the Kri'stak or a player closer to the Kri'stak be targeted by the Targ. The TFO's sole mechanic is flying back and forth between the two dreads to get them to shoot at each other. And you force them to do that by moving into range of the opposite dread before the attack goes off.

    The only possible reason you're seeing this behavior is as a fail-safe because *EVERYONE* was flying around the same dread, leaving the other dread with no other valid targets in range.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,511 Arc User
    edited June 20
    Alot of folks don't play the objectives and it's obvious they don't pay attention or simply don't care. It's especially infuriating when you get someone who refuses to hold off in UAA to close the errant rifts so everyone can get an extra hundred marks.
    A lot of people don't play TFO's for marks. For many the marks you get at the end are meaningless. For those people it can be just as infuriating to be told how to play and being told to wait for what they see as a meaningless time waste.

    Unless someone asks in chat to get the errants it seems reasonable to me to expect players to skip that objective. Its very infuriating when people complain or tell us how we should play at the end of the TFO. Its another matter all together if they ask near the start.

    Personally the only secondary objectives I like doing are the ones that have a challenge behind them or take some effort to pull off.
  • meimeitoomeimeitoo Member Posts: 12,193 Arc User
    Alot of folks don't play the objectives and it's obvious they don't pay attention or simply don't care.


    It's like you didn't read this thread at all. :)
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 53,754 Community Moderator
    meimeitoo wrote: »
    It's like you didn't read this thread at all. :)

    To be fair there is a LOT of back and forth going on too on this.

    Speaking for myself, I've had good runs and bad runs of this TFO. I've tried to avoid using the Bacon of Kahless, opting for others like the Hur'q one if possible. And if I'm on my Megawell ship, I try and keep it mostly centered so that it draws heat off the people around the Dreads, and keeps the area around the Dreads clear of anomalies that could obscure vision.

    Admittedly doesn't always work.

    And I would be annoyed by someone not doing the objectives as... well... that's the thing you do in TFOs. Work as a team to achieve the objective. I can understand if someone doesn't understand the mechanics, and I'd be more than willing to help if people asked. But there are two things: One, it practically tells you when it happens what you need to do every time. "The Targ has you targeted, get to the Kri'stak!" Two: they are voiced, and you even hear them discussing the plan during the mission when they realize what has to be done.

    So, at least from my perspective, there's little to no reason, outside of bugs that may make it hard to see where to go, for someone to not know what to do.

    Which then raises the question of is it a bug, some other reason for not understanding, or just willful dissent? I'm willing to bet that the majority of instances fall into the first two categories, which can be given a pass. The few that remain in the last category is probably split between "Knowing your ship is just too big and slow", in which case I can probably give a pass to as some ships are frickin' bricks no matter what *coughD'Deridexcough*, and purposefully choosing not to do the mechanics.

    That last branch of the last possibility tends to harm teams in other games because mechanics matter, especially in boss fights.
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  • antonine3258antonine3258 Member Posts: 2,390 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »

    And I would be annoyed by someone not doing the objectives as... well... that's the thing you do in TFOs. Work as a team to achieve the objective. I can understand if someone doesn't understand the mechanics, and I'd be more than willing to help if people asked. But there are two things: One, it practically tells you when it happens what you need to do every time. "The Targ has you targeted, get to the Kri'stak!" Two: they are voiced, and you even hear them discussing the plan during the mission when they realize what has to be done.

    Though it gives voice elements like misses whether or not you're the one who did it, which confuses the issue.
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  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,433 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »

    And I would be annoyed by someone not doing the objectives as... well... that's the thing you do in TFOs. Work as a team to achieve the objective. I can understand if someone doesn't understand the mechanics, and I'd be more than willing to help if people asked. But there are two things: One, it practically tells you when it happens what you need to do every time. "The Targ has you targeted, get to the Kri'stak!" Two: they are voiced, and you even hear them discussing the plan during the mission when they realize what has to be done.

    Though it gives voice elements like misses whether or not you're the one who did it, which confuses the issue.

    This, exactly. I hear the "Blah blah has you targeted, get to the yadda yadda" even when I don't have the ball, and the same with K'Bich shrieking "You MUST get closer next time!". The audio files do not play only to the ballcarrier.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 2,315 Arc User
    many people close chat in the game. why? reasons.
    To be fair, I would close chat after seeing ESD and Beta Quad zone chat too if I wasn't used to it.

    i pay little attention to it, but keep it open for fleeties and friends...

    with that, i did the tfo two times again recently. visual vomit does make it difficult dependent on whats getting tossed out and when etc. i was able to see things more clearly in the second run as compared to the first. i also was not closest to the ship when targeted, so the supposed to not be targeted by the farthest ship is kangaroo dung.

    the event works, but this argument of trying to prove visual vomit is not a hinderance is laughable. id say of all the times ive been in it, the past two have been the best for gameplay. maybe people are not tossing out as mush spam as they were initially, dont know.

    as for the directional arrow....thats hit and miss. even in the past two runs, the arrow was useless in a way. i had to look around for the other ship and get my way back, and at some point the arrow showed up.

    anyway, it seems people may be getting the hang of it more.

    I've played this TFO over a dozen times, watched nearly every player being targeted, and I've never seen it go any other way. If you're targeted while the closest dread is the Targ, the Targ is the one targeting you, and you're supposed to fly to the Kri'stak, and vice versa. I have never seen a player closer to the Targ be targeted by the Kri'stak or a player closer to the Kri'stak be targeted by the Targ. The TFO's sole mechanic is flying back and forth between the two dreads to get them to shoot at each other. And you force them to do that by moving into range of the opposite dread before the attack goes off.

    The only possible reason you're seeing this behavior is as a fail-safe because *EVERYONE* was flying around the same dread, leaving the other dread with no other valid targets in range.

    then the fail safe must be the answer. it happened again today. while most everyone seems to get the ghist of the tfo now, it still happened today. and while i am more aware myself of what to look for, the visual vomit did play a part today as i had difficulty seeing in the distance where it was. made it it time, thanks to evasive mans, but it could have been a miss.

    meh

  • chastity1337chastity1337 Member Posts: 1,433 Arc User
    AS far as that issue of reaching the green circle, and the ball not being dropped because you're going fast - the solution is to aim right at the target dreadnought, like you were trying to ram it. Just passing through the big green circle won't do, if you are really hauling TRIBBLE.
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