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Plasma energy bolt
fleetcaptain5
Member Posts: 4,788 Arc User
Cryptic, if you're going to put enemies in your game that continuously spew instant-destruction bolts of death, at least make sure that players can properly shoot them down.
I've seen it happen countless times now (was playing hive space solo, yes, it's made for five players but that's not the issue here). A plasma bolt closes in, I make it my primary target (which is also nearly impossible at times because using the tab key will select everything else first and clicking on it doesn't work like half the times because something behind it is selected instead). Despite having seven beams firing at it at the same time for like 5 to 10 seconds, nothing happens and my ship gets vaporised.
It's fine that FAW doesn't automatically shoot it down. I like that there are a few real threats that cannot be easily ignored or just destroyed with the same anti-spam ability that can negate almost all other defences of most enemies.
But it shouldn't be happening that
- a basic game function such as targeting is made this difficult (to the point it simply doesn't function at all in instances like these)
- when selected and shot at, nothing happens and the bolt just keeps closing in on your ship.
I've seen it happen countless times now (was playing hive space solo, yes, it's made for five players but that's not the issue here). A plasma bolt closes in, I make it my primary target (which is also nearly impossible at times because using the tab key will select everything else first and clicking on it doesn't work like half the times because something behind it is selected instead). Despite having seven beams firing at it at the same time for like 5 to 10 seconds, nothing happens and my ship gets vaporised.
It's fine that FAW doesn't automatically shoot it down. I like that there are a few real threats that cannot be easily ignored or just destroyed with the same anti-spam ability that can negate almost all other defences of most enemies.
But it shouldn't be happening that
- a basic game function such as targeting is made this difficult (to the point it simply doesn't function at all in instances like these)
- when selected and shot at, nothing happens and the bolt just keeps closing in on your ship.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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There is a proton trait called point defense protocols that might help. But I don't think it's cheap to get atm.
Not sure if this is a good solution. But you take a single weapon off from auto fire and then fire it manually with spacebar or something to hit incoming fire? No idea what an ideal solution would be though.
I'm aware of the fire cycle thing. But when this happens, I can clearly see the beams shooting at the target when I manage to select it - they just keep missing it.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Torpedo spreads can also work reasonably well.
But the problem isn't so much that there are no tricks whatsoever to deal with these things. There may be many. But players shouldn't have to use a specific piece of gear or ability because
- a basic game function doesn't work very well
- another basic game feature, specifically energy weapons, for some reason seem unable to do what they're meant to do in these instances.
My guess is that these things simply have a ridiculously high defensive maneuvering value (or at least, that's what it would be called if it were a player I guess).
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
As for manual targeting, I've personally been having trouble when getting double-webbed in Azure nebula and not being able to select the inner web, and deployed pets not hitting the inner ones either. Usually I can't select any of the nodes, but I've had more luck with the bottom most node, but usually the outside node gets targetted and even my turrets can't/won't fire at it since it's blocked. If Web breakers didn't bizarrely require DOffs to make I'd have some of those ready.
The main problem I see with the targeting system is the randomness of it all. Frankly, if a big plasma bolt is heading for your ship, then the system should flag that bolt as the most threatening target so when you tab target, you get the bolt first. I think the targetting system is one of the clunkiest and most poorly designed aspect of the game, right up there with melee.
And Beam Fire At Will, Scatter Volley and Full Spread should take care of it.
The problem with Hive space though, is that you need to stay near the Queen's ship. Otherwise you get (in many cases) instantly vaporised by the Command ships' plasma lances.
It's a bit stupid, on the one hand you have to stay near a certain point to avoid death, on the other hand you'll get surrounded by death-ensuring plasma bolts if you stay there and can't target them.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Beam fire at will suffers from a accuracy penalty though. I've got one toon with all sorts of buffs for FAW and even with pets on intercept mode, those bolts won't get shot down in many cases.
Invincibility granting traits may work indeed. I know that the passive ability from the Temporal spec tree, the one that throws your ship back a bit if you get under a certain % of hull, allows you to survive one bolt.
Still, these things have a (long) lockout period - as they should have. They're not really good replacements for basic things like weapons and targeting.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
If you play the game today though, it's finished before you even have a chance to enjoy yourself.
It's also because the bolts have a large amount of evasion...you know our much smaller targetable torpedoes can be shot out in a single volley, but hitting one of those massive plasma bolts we fire with the accuracy of a common stormtrooper.
Just because your ship failed to shoot down the plasma bolt doesn't mean there is a problem with the game. You're also in what is supposed to be a 5 man queue and trying to do it solo. Because you don't have the combined power of 5 people, those pickles are going to fire alot more plasma bolts than they otherwise normally would. It seems like more plasma bolts than normal because you don't have 4 other people in there who are potentially shooting at them as well as yourself, and the pickle ships have more opportunity to fire additional bolts since they're not dying as fast. You can also target the plasma bolt directly by clicking it.
Finally why not simply move out of the way of the thing? I can see them catching you by surprise if you're not paying attention, but that shouldn't be happening super often. You can also overcome the accuracy penalty of FAW very easily with some passives in the skill tree and one or two traits if even that much.
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It doesn't matter that it's a 5-man queue. I'm only giving this example because it allows for better testing of one's ability to shoot those things down, as there will indeed be more of those torps around.
But in the end, it doesn't matter whether there are four of those things coming towards you or only one; if, none of them can be properly targeted and shot down (even when only one is actually fired), I'd say the issue is actually with the game.
The fact that there are more other torps around because I'm alone in a queue, doesn't really change the fact that not even a single one can be properly shot down.
I'm not saying that the problem is that I can't target all four of them all the time and shoot them down, I'm complaining that it's usually not even possible to take down one of them because of all sorts of issues (one of those being that clicking doesn't work in many cases and tab targeting selects everything except the thing that should take priority). Those are issues that need to be fixed, because they're basic game functions that simply don't work.
FAW doesn't always work either. As said, even with multiple pets on intercept mode, FAW and weapon haste increases, you can still be killed by a single bolt. Moving isn't always an option. Which would all be fine (a single ability like FAW certainly doesn't need to be an easy fix in every instance), if the other options that are available actually worked.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Actually it matters greatly. If there were 5 people in there, that's 4 other people firing weapons with the potential of up to 32 additional weapons firing at that bolt assuming everyone targeted it. If the goal is to test your ability as you say, then why the complaint? Because that just sounds to me like you don't really want to test yourself, you just want an easy win. Also if the goal is to test yourself and those bolts are giving you issues, then you know what you need to work on. If you don't do it then that's on you and not the game.
If tab targeting isn't working for you, then what's stopping you from simply clicking on the thing and targeting it that way? If you can click abilities or anything on the screen, you can click that plasma bolt. Second, those things travel at half the speed of smell. Unless you're just not paying attention, or you have worse luck than a red shirt in the original series, you can stay ahead of those things indefinitely with basic white quality engines.
Third, they can absolutely be shot down. Plenty of other people do it all the time. If you're constantly missing when shooting at those things, it tells me one of two things is going on, perhaps both. One, you don't have enough accuracy in your build. Two, you let the bolt get too close to you before deciding to move or shoot it down. Neither of those things are the fault of the game, but your own pilot error.
You just said previously that none of them could be properly targeted and shot down, yet now you're saying the problem isn't that you're unable to target them, but you're unable to kill them. So then the problem isn't the targeting, but you personally being unable to kill them, which is a you problem and not a game problem. This goes back to what I said previously, if you're constantly missing then you need more accuracy in your build. Thankfully that's an easy fix for the accuracy. To be perfectly blunt from what I'm seeing here the game is working fine. Instead of altering your tactics to compensate for something you admit is giving you grief, you're coming here and complaining about it, hoping to get it changed so you don't have to change what you're doing instead of improving your approach and/or build.
While I wouldn't mind seeing improvements to tab targeting, you're either able to target the things or you're not. At first you said they can't be target or shot down. Then you said the problem isn't you being unable to target them, but unable to kill them. So which one is it? I really hate busting out arguments like these but your logic is contradictory to itself.
In what scenario is moving not an option? Unless your engines are knocked out or you're in a tractor beam, nothing is stopping you from moving your ship save you being unwilling to do so. Again those things move at half the speed of smell and you can stay ahead of them easily enough if you choose to do so. As for your statements regarding FAW, this tells me you're missing quite a bit which goes back to what I said before, you need more accuracy in your build. You can use scatter volley, torpedo spread them to death, high yield them, overload them, have a hangar pet tank the hit, and so on. Like I said before, unless you're just not paying attention, or just have worse luck than a red shirt in TOS, the plasma bolts shouldn't be an issue. From what I'm seeing in your statements I don't see a bug or an issue with the game, but a player being unwilling to adapt to something giving them a fit.
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I'm not debating that the UI can't be improved because there's always room for improvement. However the fact remains that one can in fact click targets to select them in a mission or TFO. Is it always the best option, no it's not. Is it a perfect option, no it's not. We can debate whether or not the interact or hit boxes of certain items should be bigger to hopefully let them be targeted easier. Again however plenty of other folks click to target things all the time and don't have these super massive issues. We can also debate the general topic of click targeting but that's not what this was about. This was about click targeting a specific item, namely the plasma bolt from the command/pickle ships. Those things move at half the speed of smell, and unless someone just isn't paying attention, or has worse luck than a redshirt in TOS, there's no valid reason folks shouldn't be able to stay ahead of those things.
It just boggles my mind that every time there's a remote modicum of difficulty to anything that gives people grief, people want something nerfed instead of changing their tactics or their build at all. It's never their fault, it's always that of the game.
If folks have other viable solutions other than nerfing something as simple as the plasma bolts I would love to see them.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
I've also never liked the change to make torpedoes and fighters nearly unhittable, especially with FAW. There is no good countermeasure to small targets that you can just go pickup from the BOFF trainer. It is comical how in the Prior's World STF you can have two ships working hard on missile duty and still watch transports blow up to missiles.
The only real way to destroy those things is concentrated volume of fire. FAW won't give you that unless its your primary target. CSV is slightly better in that you may be able to get it in your arc without having to change targets. BO lowers your volume of fire. CRF is oddly the best choice, assuming you can target it. Torpedo spread is also notable in that it will always hit, but you're only getting the one shot and only if you can target.
Photonic shockwave does a pretty good job at taking out targetable torps or mines just before they get close enough to detonate. And since it is exotic damage, it never misses. I am not sure whether it would be strong enough to take out a plasma bolt unless the player has a lot invested in exotic damage.
One can also just create a speedy broadside beam boat and run circles around while having a ton of bolts chasing you 'til they expire or BFAW takes them out. There's also using PBAoE abilities; most of which are guaranteed hits and can destroy most small craft, targetable torps, and mines within the effective range of the ability.
IIRC targetable torps aren't effected by confusion powers, there's more then enough powers that kill those torps in 1-2 hits even with low gear (they don't have that much HP).
if the thing is alive long enough to let go more that 1 plasma bolt, I hate to say it but the team is seriously underpowered. I don't claim to be a DPS god by any shape of the imagination but with power creep I think even i could solo a command ship in either the Donnie or the Mega-intrepid
Part of piloting is being aware of your surroundings and what is going on. We can debate whether the selection box should be bigger on those torpedoes and bolts or not, but the fact remains that click targeting them does in fact work. Part of the reason the changes were made to torps was because people complained their destructible torps were useless since they got shot down all the time by NPCs. As a compromise they were changed to allow all destructible torps some extra defense stat. Now folks simply have to invest a little bit into accuracy or buy themselves enough time to shoot it down. Again these plasma bolts travel at half the speed of smell. There is no legitimate reason people can't stay ahead of those things unless they just weren't paying attention, or a perfect storm of events happens to the point they have worse luck than a redshirt in TOS.
2 skill points in the Targeting Expertise and perhaps the Accurate trait if need be and you should have all the accuracy you need. Any other accuracy you pick up from traits is just icing on the cake. It's not going to kill anyone to put a little bit of accuracy in their builds so they can hit a target easier. People missing their target doesn't mean there is something wrong with the game. I will never understand this mindset that everytime someone can't just spam something to death that the game is automatically at fault.
Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator