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Can we now look to the future rather then the past

r24681012r24681012 Member Posts: 169 Arc User
why do we continue to have star trek shows set in the past rather then set after nemisis or voyager for me star trek began with the original series i was never interested it what came before but thats me others may feel different and thats there right

what kind of person are you a prequal or sequel kind of person where would you like the next series to be set and why
Post edited by baddmoonrizin on
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  • kaosbainkaosbain Member Posts: 114 Arc User
    Sequel. I rather detest prequels because they tend to retcon thing to make the story work for them. I rather look at further adventures rather than seeing what has already been explained in the story.
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,385 Arc User
    r24681012 wrote: »
    why do we continue to have star trek shows set in the past rather then set after nemisis or voyager for me star trek began with the original series i was never interested it what came before but thats me others may feel different and thats there right
    We... don't?

    Outside of the 2 first seasons of Discovery and its spin-offs, the shows are now focused on post-Nemesis/Voyager: Picard, Lower Decks, Prodigy, STO, Discovery from S3.

    #TASforSTO
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    When I grew up with TNG and DS9 I was sequel person for sure.

    Enterprise 4th season, Discovery and not to mention Star Wars changed it a great deal however.

    What I appreciate most is variety. Star Trek always had that and at the moment it has that more than ever with soon a handful of different shows set in different time periods.

    I would not want to have it any other way.
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  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 4,385 Arc User
    not to mention Star Wars changed it a great deal however.
    Clone Wars FTW!
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  • fewzzfewzz Member Posts: 242 Arc User
    I dislike prequals.

    All ive wanted was another show set in same timeline/Verse as TNG and DS9, everything weve had has been terrible (Discovery the worst), but i must say the Kelvin Movies have started to grow on me alot.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,971 Community Moderator
    This seems more like a topic for Ten Forward.
    @r24681012 would you like this moved to Ten Forward?


    The way I see it, there are stories to be told all over. And we do have periods of time that can be explored more, such as the time period with the Ent-B and Ent-C.

    There are many ships in Starfleet, so who knows what kinds of adventures they had.

    I honestly enjoyed Enterprise because of seeing how the tech we are all familiar with was developed. The first Phaser, the first Photon Torpedo... seeing a crew having to literally write The Book on exploration and meeting other races that future Captains like Kirk and Picard would have...
    Was looking forward to the Earth-Romulan War, but... the show was canceled before we could get that.
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  • jrdobbsjr#3264 jrdobbsjr Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    > @r24681012 said:
    > why do we continue to have star trek shows set in the past rather then set after nemisis or voyager for me star trek began with the original series i was never interested it what came before but thats me others may feel different and thats there right
    >
    > what kind of person are you a prequal or sequel kind of person where would you like the next series to be set and why

    I think it was better when every generation got its version of Trek, reflecting the time it was filmed, and building on what came before while accepting it as valid. Starting with the TNG movies, where they retconned Cochrane, the habit of rewriting the past to suit the present began.....Discovery was just the ultimate expression of it, effectively destroying TOS before becoming a Andromeda ripoff and destroying the future Federation too. At least Picard was set after DS9/Voyager like it should have been.
  • varethaelvarethael Member Posts: 79 Arc User
    Honestly i accept both (past - explanation and genesis of stories, future - finale of heroes fate, or consequences of their actions in long run), but im bit more in the direction of sequels, especially time travels and temporal war time period.

    But due to Discovery blatantly bludgeoning rules, and changing them as directors see fit, where in their time period they possessed more advanced technology that in TNG era, or S3 where ships looks like donuts (and some of them blatantly taken from Macrtos anime series), im afraid that we don't get any decent Trek story in predictable future.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    The quality and how well it fits with whatever era is more important to me than whether a show could be called a sequel or prequel. I would have been perfectly happy with something like Fuller's anthology idea for instance, as long as they got the settings right for the eras shown (something Kurtzman's people have shown a severe inability to handle).
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,971 Community Moderator
    Discovery was just the ultimate expression of it, effectively destroying TOS...

    Except it didn't?
    Nothing in DSC contradicts events in TOS. Hell... they even brought up the USS Defiant, which CONFIRMED an event in TOS still happens.
    However that is a discussion for another time and another thread.
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  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 959 Arc User
    In the context of STO? Yeah, I don't want to see a SNW or even LDS/Picard era faction. A DSC season 3 faction would be a bit too lore breaking. The game should definitely look to the future with inspiration from the shows set in its past, sequels or prequels to their stories or referenced events. Things ever so conveniently plonking themselves in 2409 has happened enough.
  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 2,593 Arc User
    The way i see it is Picard and DSC are changing the Milky way lore. fine. let STO jump out of the MW. the iconians built gates in Andromeda, and there is nothing to say they didn't build in Pegasus or one of the other dwarf satellite galaxies. Heck, ever the Magellanic clouds are a whole new future for the game.
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  • jrdobbsjr#3264 jrdobbsjr Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    > @rattler2 said:
    > Except it didn't?
    > Nothing in DSC contradicts events in TOS. Hell... they even brought up the USS Defiant, which CONFIRMED an event in TOS still happens.
    > However that is a discussion for another time and another thread.

    Cloaking devices? The Federation nearly being destroyed by the Klingons in a war never mentioned in TOS? The Federation 10 years after Discovery would have been completely different.....many of the same people would have been around but events would be quite different. Defiant ending up in the Enterprise era Mirror universe is the exception that proves the rule.
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    Discovery was just the ultimate expression of it, effectively destroying TOS...

    Except it didn't?
    Nothing in DSC contradicts events in TOS. Hell... they even brought up the USS Defiant, which CONFIRMED an event in TOS still happens.
    However that is a discussion for another time and another thread.

    That depends on how you look at it. And while some of it can be passed off as some sort of regional differences or experimental designs or whatever a lot of it cannot.

    One example incompatible events is the line in the DSC pilot that says they had not had anything but minor brush conflicts with the Klingons for a hundred years, which means that the major war that ended around 2245 would have to have been fought against someone else which would mean bringing in an entirely new major power since dialog in Balance of Terror rules out the Romulans as the other side, and does not properly set up the cold war situation that existed in the 2250s and 2260s and almost erupted into full war in 2267 as shown in Errand of Mercy.

    Also, the USS Defiant causes more compatibility problems rather than providing a connection since in ENT it was quite clearly shown that it was a TOS Constitution class, not a DSC Constitution by any stretch.

    I wont go into it further since as you pointed out this thread is not the place for that kind of thing, but there are quite a few points of conflict between the two series.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    edited March 2021

    Also, the USS Defiant causes more compatibility problems rather than providing a connection since in ENT it was quite clearly shown that it was a TOS Constitution class, not a DSC Constitution by any stretch.

    So the terrans made some modifications, where is the problem?
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    edited March 2021

    Also, the USS Defiant causes more compatibility problems rather than providing a connection since in ENT it was quite clearly shown that it was a TOS Constitution class, not a DSC Constitution by any stretch.

    So the terrans made some modifications, where is the problem?

    When they showed it in ENT the Tholians had just grabbed it and towed it to their asteroid base for study. The Tholians did not have time to make any changes to it, and it was stock TOS when when the crew of the ISS Enterprise got it.

    It is irrelevant whether the Empire modified it later since the point was that what they initially got was unequivocally a TOS Constitution, not a DSC Constitution which is a considerably different ship. If the Tholians had grabbed the DSC USS Defiant it would have been a DSC Constitution class carrier instead. That is either a major continuity gaff or TOS and DSC are on different timelines.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    Or it's a visual update how ST1 and ST3 klingons look significantly different but you're not suppose to notice it, ENT Defiant looks like the TOS as the DSC visual update wasn't done yet, had it been done they probably would have used the DSC one. In essence you're creating an issue where there is none.

    EDIT:It's also how in TOS Kahless is ridgeless and dark haired, but in TNG he has ridges and red hair (and it's implied that Kahless I looked the same as Kahless II)
    Post edited by spiritborn on
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    The way i see it is Picard and DSC are changing the Milky way lore. fine. let STO jump out of the MW. the iconians built gates in Andromeda, and there is nothing to say they didn't build in Pegasus or one of the other dwarf satellite galaxies. Heck, ever the Magellanic clouds are a whole new future for the game.

    I'd like this a lot. It would allow for a lot of exploration, colony building, first contact stuff that this game lacks. There would be new enemies and new allies. It would allow Cryptic to go wild with their creativity and allow them to sidestep the current shows while they build more lore in coming seasons to come back to where it makes sense. CBS would probably hate it.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,774 Arc User
    I'm still angry that the Earth Romulan war was cancelled and that they needlessly killed off Trip Tucker, ENT wasn't technically a prequel since the villains were from the future and that they were trying to alter the past, ENT was more like the first Terminator film but from Sarah Connor's POV.
  • jrdobbsjr#3264 jrdobbsjr Member Posts: 431 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > Something Enterprise retconed long before Discovery.
    >
    > Actually, TOS explicitly mentions past conflicts with the Klingons. And the severity of said conflict explains why the Enterprise was always "the only ship in the quadrant" so many of the Federation's ships got destroyed in the war they didn't have the ability to suitably staff their patrol routes.

    You’re moving the goalposts. I never said there was no conflict with the Klingons.....I said there was no mention in TOS of a war with the Klingons in which the Federation’s very existence was at stake.

    When Discovery returned from the MU, they were told the Federation was losing badly, about 30% of Federation space was overrun...and we were shown Klingon scouts operating in the outer worlds of the Sol system itself. The Federation Council green lit genocide as a final attempt to reverse the inevitable. In the end, they were only saved by Klingon domestic political intrigue.

    Don’t you think Kor or Kang wouldn’t have rubbed that in Kirks face every opportunity they got?
  • duasynduasyn Member Posts: 492 Arc User
    r24681012 wrote: »
    why do we continue to have star trek shows set in the past rather then set after nemisis or voyager for me star trek began with the original series i was never interested it what came before but thats me others may feel different and thats there right

    what kind of person are you a prequal or sequel kind of person where would you like the next series to be set and why

    They do prequels because they see the popularity of TOS/TNG and just want to leech off of that since they have no creativity.
    Continuing the story is one of the things I respect Cryptic for doing. And they did a decent job handling the stupidity the Bad Robot movies and Tv shows threw at them.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > Something Enterprise retconed long before Discovery.
    >
    > Actually, TOS explicitly mentions past conflicts with the Klingons. And the severity of said conflict explains why the Enterprise was always "the only ship in the quadrant" so many of the Federation's ships got destroyed in the war they didn't have the ability to suitably staff their patrol routes.

    You’re moving the goalposts. I never said there was no conflict with the Klingons.....I said there was no mention in TOS of a war with the Klingons in which the Federation’s very existence was at stake.

    When Discovery returned from the MU, they were told the Federation was losing badly, about 30% of Federation space was overrun...and we were shown Klingon scouts operating in the outer worlds of the Sol system itself. The Federation Council green lit genocide as a final attempt to reverse the inevitable. In the end, they were only saved by Klingon domestic political intrigue.

    Don’t you think Kor or Kang wouldn’t have rubbed that in Kirks face every opportunity they got?
    Maybe, maybe not. It's also possible that due how the war ended it's something of a sore point among the Klingons and they don't want to discuss it with outsiders.

    Honestly nothing in TOS does exclude the possibility of the war happening, sure it doesn't outright confirm it either, but it doesn't exclude it either.
  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    Yeah, honestly...the Klingons were days away from invading or torching Earth, and they had to pull back because of the stunt L'Rell pulled - if I were a Klingon, I wouldn't want to be reminded of all that glory being snatched away at the 11th hour, nor would I ever be bringing it up.​​
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  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 4,248 Arc User
    Yeah, honestly...the Klingons were days away from invading or torching Earth, and they had to pull back because of the stunt L'Rell pulled - if I were a Klingon, I wouldn't want to be reminded of all that glory being snatched away at the 11th hour, nor would I ever be bringing it up.​​

    I also suspect that Klingons were overstretched due to their rush to take out the Federation, it is never out right stated but would make sense as really only Kol'sha seems to be really against L'Rell and even then IIRC it wasn't due to stopping the war.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 57,971 Community Moderator
    Also... we have to consider that it wasn't exactly the Klingon Empire taking all that territory. It was individual houses because they had no unifying voice after the Sarco was destroyed by Discovery. They were competing with each other just as much as they were fighting the Federation. Whoever took Earth probably would have become leader of the Empire. One enemy became many, which is probably why the war took such a drastic turn. Each house had distinct tactics that Starfleet ended up going from a single front war they could at least manage to a multi front war.
    It was the opposite of the saying "Cut off the head, the serpent dies." In this case the serpent turned into a hydra.
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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    edited March 2021
    ...
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Or it's a visual update how ST1 and ST3 klingons look significantly different but you're not suppose to notice it, ENT Defiant looks like the TOS as the DSC visual update wasn't done yet, had it been done they probably would have used the DSC one. In essence you're creating an issue where there is none.

    EDIT:It's also how in TOS Kahless is ridgeless and dark haired, but in TNG he has ridges and red hair (and it's implied that Kahless I looked the same as Kahless II)
    When they showed it in ENT the Tholians had just grabbed it and towed it to their asteroid base for study. The Tholians did not have time to make any changes to it, and it was stock TOS when when the crew of the ISS Enterprise got it.

    It is irrelevant whether the Empire modified it later since the point was that what they initially got was unequivocally a TOS Constitution, not a DSC Constitution which is a considerably different ship. If the Tholians had grabbed the DSC USS Defiant it would have been a DSC Constitution class carrier instead. That is either a major continuity gaff or TOS and DSC are on different timelines.
    The problem with this argument is that there is no in universe difference between the TOS Connie and the DSC Connie. They are, in canon, 100% the exact same ship with no known modifications.

    DSC never was simply a "visual update". To do that you have to at the very least start with the material from the era that is being updated (in this case with The Cage and TOS, and no a few hand props just does not cut it for that) but interviews and behind the scenes features make no secret of the fact that they bypassed it and started with The Undiscovered Country (which was the movie Roddenberry had the most objections to btw) instead. The "visual reboot only" ship sailed right at the start of the pre-production phase when they decided that.

    If they wanted to be edgy they could have integrated an update of the TOS look into DSC as one of the more far out niche looks with their own stuff the majority on the visual level, and leveraged the fact that in early TOS Kirk used several names for the organization to set up the kind of balkanized, jockeying for position situation that would be perfect for the deconstruction they appeared to be going for but so massively bungled in first season DSC.

    That would have gone over much better with the traditional Trek base than the total reboot they did and the action movie fans are just there for the eycandy thrill ride anyway so they would have had a much bigger potential viewer pool instead of one constrained by the divisive feud that Moonves set up and fanned as "free advertising" (and probably a stick in the eye to the "trekkies" he hates so much).

    As for the Klingons, the best explanation is the one Glenn Hetrick often mentions in interviews, that not all of the Klingon houses are actually from Qo'nos (which is more or less the the popular Klingon-as-empire rather than Klingon-as-race-only concept that has been in various fan theories for decades).

    So far, while CBS claims that DSC happens in the same timeline/universe/whatever you want to call it, they have yet to show anything that makes that claim believable, and in fact show a lot of things to the contrary. Remember "show, don't tell"? It has long been an adage for higher quality shows in the industry, and DSC shows more timeline altering interventions than ENT, a show directly involved in the Temporal Cold War, did so it is actually more reasonable to see it as a split than to pretend it is anything like The Cage/TOS era.

    And no, as IP owners they can control what is allowed to be written and by whom in a legal sense, but the suspension of disbelief and what makes a fictional setting come to life is a trust between the viewers and the storytellers together, not a simple legality.

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