I thought it was a pleasant change dealing with the Fek'Ihri and things having a more mystical air. Have been through *so many* darn alien installations over time that opening large doors and being in a different kind of setting and storyline was quite refreshing. Thought it was very well done. Variety is good.
> @fallenkezef#4581 said:
> The Klingons do not really have concepts of good and evil. They have honour and are similar to the Japanese in this regard.(...)
I'm pretty sure Japanese people hace a concept of good and evil 😉
Actualy no, not in the same sense as western cultures.
The idea of good and evil as binary, mutualy exclusive ideals is more of a Jewish/Christian moral philosophy. In Japan, during the samurai age, they followed the Bhudist concept of moral duality.
I think the whole star trek necromancy thing is horrible and has no place in STO. There is a significant difference between Kahless Reborn and L'Rel Reborn. Kahless was cloned using his DNA and his personality manufactured using a cornucopia of historic data and myth. L'Rel was cloned, but her "soul" was retreived from a mythical place through some middle ages voodoo ritual that involved getting high on smoke. There is nothing scientific, and nothing Star Trek about that.
Sure, Star Trek has never used magic to put a disembodied mind back in a revived body before...
Clearly STO is just making things up again.
There is a difference between vulcan telepathy and traveling to Klingon Hell to retrieve the soul of a person long dead by throwing some "incense" into a fire and having a drug trip.
We might as well get a universal kit mod "Summon Undead Klingon Warrior".
No there isn't.
One is like reviving a dead body on a operating table after they just died moments ago and the other is like going to a graveyard and resurrecting a friend....they're totally different things.
No they're not. They're both pulling a dead mind from elsewhere using magic. Absolutely identical.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I just wanna know how to pronounce the word correctly...
fek EEE ree?
fek LAR?
I just don't get it...
CM
Fek'Ihri is the race name. Fek-eee-ree
Fek'lhr is their leader. Fek-Lar
I guess the problem stems from the fact that Fek'Ihri is spelled with a uppercase i
And Fek'lhr is spelled with a lowercase L
So the names look similar do to the letters looking similar aswell... I and l
Easier to see the diffrence when ya swap which name uses uppercase and lowercase... Fek'Lhr and Fek'ihri
"Please, Captain, not in front of the Klingons." Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
Honestly, I'd rather they NOT keep using mythological characters. This is Star Trek, not Final Fantasy...
And yes, I know there were occasional mythological characters in the shows. Apollo was an alien, however. Fek'lhr in this game is not, he's supposedly a creature in the afterlife... which is fantasy. Star Trek is SCIENCE fiction, after all.
hmmm
thor - a mythological being, and yet he is mixed with tons of sci fi in movies as of late.
stargate - sci fi, yet we see instances where the gate was used and often people thought those that past from it and into their realm were gods, thus a mix of myth and sci fi.
The difference here is that Fek'lhr is not being treated by the STO writers as an advanced alien creature that uses technology so advanced that it looks like magic. He has been written to be the Klingon devil living in the literal afterlife, not a pocket of subspace or anything like that, literally the afterlife. This is not sci fi, this is straight up fantasy, and if I wanted that, I would go play Elder Scrolls.
Honestly, I'd rather they NOT keep using mythological characters. This is Star Trek, not Final Fantasy...
And yes, I know there were occasional mythological characters in the shows. Apollo was an alien, however. Fek'lhr in this game is not, he's supposedly a creature in the afterlife... which is fantasy. Star Trek is SCIENCE fiction, after all.
hmmm
thor - a mythological being, and yet he is mixed with tons of sci fi in movies as of late.
stargate - sci fi, yet we see instances where the gate was used and often people thought those that past from it and into their realm were gods, thus a mix of myth and sci fi.
The difference here is that Fek'lhr is not being treated by the STO writers as an advanced alien creature that uses technology so advanced that it looks like magic. He has been written to be the Klingon devil living in the literal afterlife, not a pocket of subspace or anything like that, literally the afterlife. This is not sci fi, this is straight up fantasy, and if I wanted that, I would go play Elder Scrolls.
That's because the Klingon Civil War arc is told through the lens of the KDF player who is assumed to believe in the mythology. If the arc was from the Starfleet perspective then most of it would be spent deconstructing the mythology.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Honestly, I'd rather they NOT keep using mythological characters. This is Star Trek, not Final Fantasy...
And yes, I know there were occasional mythological characters in the shows. Apollo was an alien, however. Fek'lhr in this game is not, he's supposedly a creature in the afterlife... which is fantasy. Star Trek is SCIENCE fiction, after all.
hmmm
thor - a mythological being, and yet he is mixed with tons of sci fi in movies as of late.
stargate - sci fi, yet we see instances where the gate was used and often people thought those that past from it and into their realm were gods, thus a mix of myth and sci fi.
The difference here is that Fek'lhr is not being treated by the STO writers as an advanced alien creature that uses technology so advanced that it looks like magic. He has been written to be the Klingon devil living in the literal afterlife, not a pocket of subspace or anything like that, literally the afterlife. This is not sci fi, this is straight up fantasy, and if I wanted that, I would go play Elder Scrolls.
That's because the Klingon Civil War arc is told through the lens of the KDF player who is assumed to believe in the mythology. If the arc was from the Starfleet perspective then most of it would be spent deconstructing the mythology.
This is either incorrect, or incredibly bad writing seeing that the majority of players are not KDF. My Reman captains could care less about Klingon mythology. I think it is more reasonable to assume that the writers at Cryptic want us to believe we actually went to Klingon hell and battled the Klingon devil. What is this Supernatural?
Honestly, I'd rather they NOT keep using mythological characters. This is Star Trek, not Final Fantasy...
And yes, I know there were occasional mythological characters in the shows. Apollo was an alien, however. Fek'lhr in this game is not, he's supposedly a creature in the afterlife... which is fantasy. Star Trek is SCIENCE fiction, after all.
hmmm
thor - a mythological being, and yet he is mixed with tons of sci fi in movies as of late.
stargate - sci fi, yet we see instances where the gate was used and often people thought those that past from it and into their realm were gods, thus a mix of myth and sci fi.
The difference here is that Fek'lhr is not being treated by the STO writers as an advanced alien creature that uses technology so advanced that it looks like magic. He has been written to be the Klingon devil living in the literal afterlife, not a pocket of subspace or anything like that, literally the afterlife. This is not sci fi, this is straight up fantasy, and if I wanted that, I would go play Elder Scrolls.
That's because the Klingon Civil War arc is told through the lens of the KDF player who is assumed to believe in the mythology. If the arc was from the Starfleet perspective then most of it would be spent deconstructing the mythology.
This is either incorrect, or incredibly bad writing seeing that the majority of players are not KDF. My Reman captains could care less about Klingon mythology. I think it is more reasonable to assume that the writers at Cryptic want us to believe we actually went to Klingon hell and battled the Klingon devil. What is this Supernatural?
'Couldn't care less'. And it's of no consequence if you chose not to accept the act as being written for KDF players. The Nimbus arc is for Romulans and the Spectres arc is for Starfleet, they're all available for all but the gist of the story is for one faction over the others.
So it's perfectly reasonable to assume Cryptic's writers have more of a clue than you do.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
'Couldn't care less'. And it's of no consequence if you chose not to accept the act as being written for KDF players. The Nimbus arc is for Romulans and the Spectres arc is for Starfleet, they're all available for all but the gist of the story is for one faction over the others.
So it's perfectly reasonable to assume Cryptic's writers have more of a clue than you do.
sorry, but I consider assuming to be generally pointless. More than anything you are going to assume what you want to believe, and it just shows more about yourself than the fact of the matter.
you can of course assume what you want, but there's no evidence to support anything you've said.
I also do not believe that any kind of episode in this game is written for a specific faction, I also do not believe that every Klingon believes in the myths. Also there are more races in KDF, which makes your theorie even more invalid IMO.
About references of Thor, who is generally a mythical creature. In the Marvel comics he is basically a very powerful alien, who is regarded as god by some. I ask how comparable comics and Star Trek are, though. After all in comics you have all kinds of stuff, from magic to aliens, superheroes with no explanation of their powers, gods, etc.
If done well, mixing mythology and SciFi can be very entertaining, take Shadowrun for example. The difference is, it was set up like this from the very beginning.
Star Trek was never set up to be D&D in space (Spelljammer anyone? )
I am not so versed with TOS, more so with TNG and especially DS9. So that is were my impressions of Trek come from. While Disco is entertaining, I also consider it to be "too much" from time to time for "my" Trek.
Having said that, my impression of Trek was that there usually is some kind of "scientific" explanation for what is going on. Psychic powers (which are very different from mythological things), science, aliens, whatever.
The Fehk'liri existing, with the explanation from the Gamme arc, I am fine with. But all this going to "hell", raising souls, fighting the devil, that is just something that belongs into D&D, LotR, Neverwinter and whatnot.
Thor and the Asgardians from the Marvel-Multiverse are essentially what Apollo and the Greek pantheon is in Star Trek. They are space faring aliens that made contact with humans at a time they were perceived as gods and then left, leaving behind this impression. This is however not how Fek'lhr is presented in STO - the first Fek'ihri invasion is supposed to be Dominion-engineered henchmen, and when we visit Gre'Thor (we did so TWICE) it's always supposed to be taken literally. The second time we do get there through being drugged/near death, but once there we fight the "demons" with our actual weaponry. It would have been cool if our equipment was overwritten with Klingon attire and medieval weaponry but they didn't do that. Is this only a gameplay quirk? I think they could have changed our appearance and equipment for one mission, the technology is there.
Regarding the POV of the episodes, @imgoingmad, I think artan is right here. Whether you chose a Reman is of no consequence, the game only knows two factions. You are either Federation or Klingon (and that's not 'The Empire' as a whole, nor is it the Klingon confederation or anything, it's as far as I'm aware always pure stereotypical Klingon) as these are the only sets the game recongizes. If you play a Gorn KDF site the game doesn't honour this at all, you will always have pre-defined dialogue choices that go on about Klingon honour, Qa'Pla and the whole spiel. If you are a Romulan Republic character, once you choose the allegiance "Klingon" you are henceforth by the game recognized as "Klingon". Only a few missions have actual dialogue choices that reflect Romulan affiliation. There are a few dialogue boxes in the game that even recognize the species of character, like there are some special mentions for Vulcans when dealing with certain Romulan missions, but generally this doesn't happen.
So yes, the missions are absolutely written with a POV in mind, especially the older arcs. Whether this is true for the most recent version of Fek'lhr though I'm not sure. I haven't played the mission on a Federation character, maybe there is one additional dialogue where they theorize what it is they are seeing?
^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
"No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
"A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
"That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
sorry, but I consider assuming to be generally pointless. More than anything you are going to assume what you want to believe, and it just shows more about yourself than the fact of the matter.
I also do not believe that any kind of episode in this game is written for a specific faction
I don't care weather you ignore it or not. Certain cross faction story arcs are written with one faction in mind more than others. The Nimbus arc is that key to the Romulan story that it's still included in the episode arc for them and relegated to side quests fro everybody else. The Klingon Civil war arc is written for Klingons, that's obvious when you don't just press 'F' to skip through all the complicated words.
I also do not believe that every Klingon believes in the myths. Also there are more races in KDF, which makes your theorie even more invalid IMO.
It is still irrelevant what you consider regarding my 'theories'. It's an MMO, to feature any of the player characters in stories Cryptic needs to make certain assumptions and for the KDF the main assumptions is that the character is a TNG style honour obsessed Klingon and not any other species in the Empire or any other behaviour type of Klingon.
In conclusion you need to pay far more attention to the words in missions as well as how MMOs work in general.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
I just wanna know how to pronounce the word correctly...
fek EEE ree?
fek LAR?
I just don't get it...
CM
Fek'Ihri is the race name. Fek-eee-ree
Fek'lhr is their leader. Fek-Lar
I guess the problem stems from the fact that Fek'Ihri is spelled with a uppercase i
And Fek'lhr is spelled with a lowercase L
So the names look similar do to the letters looking similar aswell... I and l
Easier to see the diffrence when ya swap which name uses uppercase and lowercase... Fek'Lhr and Fek'ihri
I thought Molor was their Leader, He was the only Klingon that was able to control and command them when he was alive.
You can ignore it but it won't make the evidence go away.
So then please present some evidence. So far you have just stated your interpretations...
I don't care weather you ignore it or not. Certain cross faction story arcs are written with one faction in mind more than others. The Nimbus arc is that key to the Romulan story that it's still included in the episode arc for them and relegated to side quests fro everybody else. The Klingon Civil war arc is written for Klingons, that's obvious when you don't just press 'F' to skip through all the complicated words.
just because you THINK it is that way doesn't make it true...
I have to rephrase what I said though - OF COURSE there are episodes for specific factions. But then they are either not available for other factions or done in a slightly different way. Look at the Disco missions for DSC characters vs all others.
I fail to see any evidence to that for the KDF civil war arc.
It is still irrelevant what you consider regarding my 'theories'. It's an MMO, to feature any of the player characters in stories Cryptic needs to make certain assumptions and for the KDF the main assumptions is that the character is a TNG style honour obsessed Klingon and not any other species in the Empire or any other behaviour type of Klingon.
In conclusion you need to pay far more attention to the words in missions as well as how MMOs work in general.
are you a writer for Cryptic or have any ties to the staff? If so then please share some insight. Otherwise, don't present your theories as facts...
What a kind of nonsense assumption is it to say they write an episode for just one specific race of one faction? Are there any "humans only" episodes?
You just went from "it is an episode FOR KDF", which I could be able to accept if presented with some evidence, to saying it is a story for just one small part of the whole setting. Maybe you are confusing FOR KDF with KDF driven or KDF focus or about KDF?
Also, honor obsessed is not related to the whole mysticism thing. And I stand by the statement that I do not think that all Klingons believe in "hell". Humans have different religions, right?
There's plenty of good story arcs in this game without making any kind of assumptions of what player characters are going to be, apart from starship captains for either KDF, Starfleet or another faction.
so you acknowledge thor is a mythical creature, but then call him an alien, and yet a god. so which is it? and you do know ST had comics right?
shadowrun was a fun game.
how are psychic powers any any more scientific than flame souls?
ok maybe my wording was bad - what I meant was that in real life, Thor is from Norse mythology. A god in what Christians like to call pagan beliefs. That, to me, is his origin, and where comics and fiction draw from.
He could very well be an alien, who came to Earth or whatever, we don't know that. We just know the first mention/appeareance is as a mythological creature.
In Marvel comics, he starts out as said God, but you come to know him as an alien from another planet. Much like the Stargate aliens really.
I don't know about Star Trek comics, I was just trying to point out that the setting in Marvel comics is different than in Star Trek.
@psychic powers vs flame souls:
well maybe they aren't but so far there are some mumbo jumbo explanations for them that "appear" scientific (there are a lot of those in Star Trek, take transporters for example, or Warp drive, or the ablative plating they had in ENT). It is basically all "magic", but with a scientific explanation behind. Flaming souls currently are just that - "oooo they came from hell". Not very scientific. If you want to tie in religion with Sci Fi, go 40K. They did an excellent job with the whole background. But that just doesn't suit Star Trek I think ...
I think the whole star trek necromancy thing is horrible and has no place in STO. There is a significant difference between Kahless Reborn and L'Rel Reborn. Kahless was cloned using his DNA and his personality manufactured using a cornucopia of historic data and myth. L'Rel was cloned, but her "soul" was retreived from a mythical place through some middle ages voodoo ritual that involved getting high on smoke. There is nothing scientific, and nothing Star Trek about that.
*coughKATRAcough* You'd not like the Vulcan's then.
I think the whole star trek necromancy thing is horrible and has no place in STO. There is a significant difference between Kahless Reborn and L'Rel Reborn. Kahless was cloned using his DNA and his personality manufactured using a cornucopia of historic data and myth. L'Rel was cloned, but her "soul" was retreived from a mythical place through some middle ages voodoo ritual that involved getting high on smoke. There is nothing scientific, and nothing Star Trek about that.
*coughKATRAcough* You'd not like the Vulcan's then.
Personally, I don't care about the supernatural aspect. I just don't want more Fek'Ihri because they're a pain in the neck to fight.
I want to see a Santa Fek'lhr in all his even hammier glory in a Winter Wonderland hourly event where you deliver (Nightmare Before Xmas-ish) gifts to the annoying gingerbread people, like gummy Kos'Karii covering them like gummy burritos, elf-hatted Tardigrades trying to bear-hug them, snow-Borg trying to asnowimilate them, Lost souls bakers trying to overcook them, etc...
sorry, but I consider assuming to be generally pointless. More than anything you are going to assume what you want to believe, and it just shows more about yourself than the fact of the matter.
I also do not believe that any kind of episode in this game is written for a specific faction
I don't care weather you ignore it or not. Certain cross faction story arcs are written with one faction in mind more than others. The Nimbus arc is that key to the Romulan story that it's still included in the episode arc for them and relegated to side quests fro everybody else. The Klingon Civil war arc is written for Klingons, that's obvious when you don't just press 'F' to skip through all the complicated words.
I also do not believe that every Klingon believes in the myths. Also there are more races in KDF, which makes your theorie even more invalid IMO.
It is still irrelevant what you consider regarding my 'theories'. It's an MMO, to feature any of the player characters in stories Cryptic needs to make certain assumptions and for the KDF the main assumptions is that the character is a TNG style honour obsessed Klingon and not any other species in the Empire or any other behaviour type of Klingon.
In conclusion you need to pay far more attention to the words in missions as well as how MMOs work in general.
Haha sorry I wasn't aware I am dealing with an authority on how MMOs work or what goes on in the heads of Cryptic's writers...
Are you tied in with the company, do you have inside information from the writing department?
If not, then again, just because you WANT to believe something, doesn't make it true. Unless you can present some facts, that is all you are doing. Presenting your interpretation as truth doesn't make it valid, no matter how hard you stamp your foot.
You went from claiming that the episode(s) were written for KDF to the episodes being written for one specific race of one specific faction (Klingon), which ALSO has to believe in the mythical aspect of the story. That is pretty slim in my opinion.
The only valid thing to assume is that everyone is a starship captain for either KDF, STarfleet or another faction.
Of course there are race/faction specific episodes, but these are usually origin stories. Take the Disco arc which is presented differently for DSC characters and for all other factions.
So if your theory were true, the same should have been done for the current arc.
Could it be that you are confusing "written for KDF" with "KDF based" or "KDF driven"?
And I still think that it is unrealistic to assume every Klingon believes in the mythological aspects of the story. This has nothing to do with concepts of honor, but with religion. Humans have different religions, right?
If you want a great mix of Sci Fi and religion, go Warhammer 40k. Excellent setting, very well done, but SET UP DIFFERENTLY from the start. And I think very different from Star Trek.
so you acknowledge thor is a mythical creature, but then call him an alien, and yet a god. so which is it? and you do know ST had comics right?
shadowrun was a fun game.
how are psychic powers any any more scientific than flame souls?
I don't know about Star Trek comics, I just wanted to point out that (Marvel) comics are a different setting than Star Trek.
Thor originates from (Norse) mythology. Hence a mythological creature. In the comics he is depicted as an alien and a god. In mythology he is also a god. He might as well be an alien creature that came to Earth thousands of years ago (like the Stargate aliens) and be regarded as a god and enter (Norse) mythology. We don't know that.
We just know his "first appearance" is as a god in mythology. Talking about real life here, not Trek or comics.
The difference with psychic powers (or anything in Star Trek really), is that usually things are given with some kind of "scientific" explanation. Be it transporters, warp drive, psychic powers, whatnot.
But flaming souls, so far, are just that. Risen from (Klingon) hell, they are now floating around "real space". I haven't found an explanation yet...
It is still irrelevant what you consider regarding my 'theories'. It's an MMO, to feature any of the player characters in stories Cryptic needs to make certain assumptions and for the KDF the main assumptions is that the character is a TNG style honour obsessed Klingon and not any other species in the Empire or any other behaviour type of Klingon.
In conclusion you need to pay far more attention to the words in missions as well as how MMOs work in general.
Haha sorry I wasn't aware I am dealing with an authority on how MMOs work or what goes on in the heads of Cryptic's writers...
Are you tied in with the company, do you have inside information from the writing department?
If not, then again, just because you WANT to believe something, doesn't make it true. Unless you can present some facts, that is all you are doing. Presenting your interpretation as truth doesn't make it valid, no matter how hard you stamp your foot.
You went from claiming that the episode(s) were written for KDF to the episodes being written for one specific race of one specific faction (Klingon), which ALSO has to believe in the mythical aspect of the story. That is pretty slim in my opinion.
The only valid thing to assume is that everyone is a starship captain for either KDF, STarfleet or another faction.
Of course there are race/faction specific episodes, but these are usually origin stories. Take the Disco arc which is presented differently for DSC characters and for all other factions.
So if your theory were true, the same should have been done for the current arc.
Could it be that you are confusing "written for KDF" with "KDF based" or "KDF driven"?
And I still think that it is unrealistic to assume every Klingon believes in the mythological aspects of the story. This has nothing to do with concepts of honor, but with religion. Humans have different religions, right?
If you want a great mix of Sci Fi and religion, go Warhammer 40k. Excellent setting, very well done, but SET UP DIFFERENTLY from the start. And I think very different from Star Trek.
That's a lot of words to simple say you have no clue what your talking about and don't read the text ingame.
Go give that a go and then come back in a few days and try again.
Good luck.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though. JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Thor and the Asgardians from the Marvel-Multiverse are essentially what Apollo and the Greek pantheon is in Star Trek. They are space faring aliens that made contact with humans at a time they were perceived as gods and then left, leaving behind this impression. This is however not how Fek'lhr is presented in STO - the first Fek'ihri invasion is supposed to be Dominion-engineered henchmen, and when we visit Gre'Thor (we did so TWICE) it's always supposed to be taken literally. The second time we do get there through being drugged/near death, but once there we fight the "demons" with our actual weaponry. It would have been cool if our equipment was overwritten with Klingon attire and medieval weaponry but they didn't do that. Is this only a gameplay quirk? I think they could have changed our appearance and equipment for one mission, the technology is there.
Regarding the POV of the episodes, @imgoingmad, I think artan is right here. Whether you chose a Reman is of no consequence, the game only knows two factions. You are either Federation or Klingon (and that's not 'The Empire' as a whole, nor is it the Klingon confederation or anything, it's as far as I'm aware always pure stereotypical Klingon) as these are the only sets the game recongizes. If you play a Gorn KDF site the game doesn't honour this at all, you will always have pre-defined dialogue choices that go on about Klingon honour, Qa'Pla and the whole spiel. If you are a Romulan Republic character, once you choose the allegiance "Klingon" you are henceforth by the game recognized as "Klingon". Only a few missions have actual dialogue choices that reflect Romulan affiliation. There are a few dialogue boxes in the game that even recognize the species of character, like there are some special mentions for Vulcans when dealing with certain Romulan missions, but generally this doesn't happen.
So yes, the missions are absolutely written with a POV in mind, especially the older arcs. Whether this is true for the most recent version of Fek'lhr though I'm not sure. I haven't played the mission on a Federation character, maybe there is one additional dialogue where they theorize what it is they are seeing?
Only difference with a FED toon is that they can't say they've been to Grethor before as far as I could tell no speculation as to what they saw might be, which honestly would be in character with the season 3 onward federation where insulting people to their face by implying you're culturally superior was no longer the UFP MO, or at least not the first thing they did.
And while our character can be what ever you're still doing this with Adet'pa, Martok and J'Ula 2 of whom believe very strongly in the klingon mythology and the third isn't a total non-believer either even if somewhat more skeptical, so it would be rude of our character to openly speculate on the nature of what they're seeing. Even a Romulan wouldn't stupid enough to insult his allies in this situation.
I don't know about Star Trek comics, I just wanted to point out that (Marvel) comics are a different setting than Star Trek.
Thor originates from (Norse) mythology. Hence a mythological creature. In the comics he is depicted as an alien and a god. In mythology he is also a god. He might as well be an alien creature that came to Earth thousands of years ago (like the Stargate aliens) and be regarded as a god and enter (Norse) mythology. We don't know that.
We just know his "first appearance" is as a god in mythology. Talking about real life here, not Trek or comics.
The difference with psychic powers (or anything in Star Trek really), is that usually things are given with some kind of "scientific" explanation. Be it transporters, warp drive, psychic powers, whatnot.
But flaming souls, so far, are just that. Risen from (Klingon) hell, they are now floating around "real space". I haven't found an explanation yet...
i can enjoy the reply and your presented stance.
while some may say psychic powers have a scientific base, or can be explained, i am not with the group that says it does. for me, it falls in the realm of "meh." no scientific base has been able to prove it is real. most of the details lean on emotion for it to be effective. but thats a different thread for discussion.
i will accept your stance of thor vs souls based on your reply, but lets be honest...neither exist. and if one can be accepted, why cant the other?
that is exactly my point. Generally, both can exist, but it depends on the context. Here, the context is Star Trek, where for every "magical" thing (transporters etc.) they give a "scientific" explanation. Of course most of it is just mumbo jumbo that the writers cook up, how could it be not? But overall it creates the image of a rational, intellect driven world.
Marvel comics are fair game. Everything can exist. In 40K, you'd expect people who start argumenting on logical terms ("there are no facts to support the existence of a Machine god") to be burned as heretics.
With that context in mind I see the Fek'lhri stories - and that is why I am not the biggest fan and I don't need more of it. But to each his own. We will see what Cryptic has in store
It is still irrelevant what you consider regarding my 'theories'. It's an MMO, to feature any of the player characters in stories Cryptic needs to make certain assumptions and for the KDF the main assumptions is that the character is a TNG style honour obsessed Klingon and not any other species in the Empire or any other behaviour type of Klingon.
In conclusion you need to pay far more attention to the words in missions as well as how MMOs work in general.
Haha sorry I wasn't aware I am dealing with an authority on how MMOs work or what goes on in the heads of Cryptic's writers...
Are you tied in with the company, do you have inside information from the writing department?
If not, then again, just because you WANT to believe something, doesn't make it true. Unless you can present some facts, that is all you are doing. Presenting your interpretation as truth doesn't make it valid, no matter how hard you stamp your foot.
You went from claiming that the episode(s) were written for KDF to the episodes being written for one specific race of one specific faction (Klingon), which ALSO has to believe in the mythical aspect of the story. That is pretty slim in my opinion.
The only valid thing to assume is that everyone is a starship captain for either KDF, STarfleet or another faction.
Of course there are race/faction specific episodes, but these are usually origin stories. Take the Disco arc which is presented differently for DSC characters and for all other factions.
So if your theory were true, the same should have been done for the current arc.
Could it be that you are confusing "written for KDF" with "KDF based" or "KDF driven"?
And I still think that it is unrealistic to assume every Klingon believes in the mythological aspects of the story. This has nothing to do with concepts of honor, but with religion. Humans have different religions, right?
If you want a great mix of Sci Fi and religion, go Warhammer 40k. Excellent setting, very well done, but SET UP DIFFERENTLY from the start. And I think very different from Star Trek.
That's a lot of words to simple say you have no clue what your talking about and don't read the text ingame.
Go give that a go and then come back in a few days and try again.
Good luck.
Thank you.
I don't need to try again though
Maybe one day you can come out of your "I want to BELIEVE, and I KNOW I am right" box, and we can have a discussion - looking forward to it!
Comments
Actualy no, not in the same sense as western cultures.
The idea of good and evil as binary, mutualy exclusive ideals is more of a Jewish/Christian moral philosophy. In Japan, during the samurai age, they followed the Bhudist concept of moral duality.
No they're not. They're both pulling a dead mind from elsewhere using magic. Absolutely identical.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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fek EEE ree?
fek LAR?
I just don't get it...
CM
Fek'Ihri is the race name. Fek-eee-ree
Fek'lhr is their leader. Fek-Lar
I guess the problem stems from the fact that Fek'Ihri is spelled with a uppercase i
And Fek'lhr is spelled with a lowercase L
So the names look similar do to the letters looking similar aswell... I and l
Easier to see the diffrence when ya swap which name uses uppercase and lowercase... Fek'Lhr and Fek'ihri
Spock to Kirk, as Kirk is about to hug him.
Star Trek V: "The Final Frontier"
The difference here is that Fek'lhr is not being treated by the STO writers as an advanced alien creature that uses technology so advanced that it looks like magic. He has been written to be the Klingon devil living in the literal afterlife, not a pocket of subspace or anything like that, literally the afterlife. This is not sci fi, this is straight up fantasy, and if I wanted that, I would go play Elder Scrolls.
That's because the Klingon Civil War arc is told through the lens of the KDF player who is assumed to believe in the mythology. If the arc was from the Starfleet perspective then most of it would be spent deconstructing the mythology.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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This is either incorrect, or incredibly bad writing seeing that the majority of players are not KDF. My Reman captains could care less about Klingon mythology. I think it is more reasonable to assume that the writers at Cryptic want us to believe we actually went to Klingon hell and battled the Klingon devil. What is this Supernatural?
'Couldn't care less'. And it's of no consequence if you chose not to accept the act as being written for KDF players. The Nimbus arc is for Romulans and the Spectres arc is for Starfleet, they're all available for all but the gist of the story is for one faction over the others.
So it's perfectly reasonable to assume Cryptic's writers have more of a clue than you do.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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sorry, but I consider assuming to be generally pointless. More than anything you are going to assume what you want to believe, and it just shows more about yourself than the fact of the matter.
you can of course assume what you want, but there's no evidence to support anything you've said.
I also do not believe that any kind of episode in this game is written for a specific faction, I also do not believe that every Klingon believes in the myths. Also there are more races in KDF, which makes your theorie even more invalid IMO.
About references of Thor, who is generally a mythical creature. In the Marvel comics he is basically a very powerful alien, who is regarded as god by some. I ask how comparable comics and Star Trek are, though. After all in comics you have all kinds of stuff, from magic to aliens, superheroes with no explanation of their powers, gods, etc.
If done well, mixing mythology and SciFi can be very entertaining, take Shadowrun for example. The difference is, it was set up like this from the very beginning.
Star Trek was never set up to be D&D in space (Spelljammer anyone?
I am not so versed with TOS, more so with TNG and especially DS9. So that is were my impressions of Trek come from. While Disco is entertaining, I also consider it to be "too much" from time to time for "my" Trek.
Having said that, my impression of Trek was that there usually is some kind of "scientific" explanation for what is going on. Psychic powers (which are very different from mythological things), science, aliens, whatever.
The Fehk'liri existing, with the explanation from the Gamme arc, I am fine with. But all this going to "hell", raising souls, fighting the devil, that is just something that belongs into D&D, LotR, Neverwinter and whatnot.
Regarding the POV of the episodes, @imgoingmad, I think artan is right here. Whether you chose a Reman is of no consequence, the game only knows two factions. You are either Federation or Klingon (and that's not 'The Empire' as a whole, nor is it the Klingon confederation or anything, it's as far as I'm aware always pure stereotypical Klingon) as these are the only sets the game recongizes. If you play a Gorn KDF site the game doesn't honour this at all, you will always have pre-defined dialogue choices that go on about Klingon honour, Qa'Pla and the whole spiel. If you are a Romulan Republic character, once you choose the allegiance "Klingon" you are henceforth by the game recognized as "Klingon". Only a few missions have actual dialogue choices that reflect Romulan affiliation. There are a few dialogue boxes in the game that even recognize the species of character, like there are some special mentions for Vulcans when dealing with certain Romulan missions, but generally this doesn't happen.
So yes, the missions are absolutely written with a POV in mind, especially the older arcs. Whether this is true for the most recent version of Fek'lhr though I'm not sure. I haven't played the mission on a Federation character, maybe there is one additional dialogue where they theorize what it is they are seeing?
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It's irrelevant what you think about assumptions.
You can ignore it but it won't make the evidence go away.
I don't care weather you ignore it or not. Certain cross faction story arcs are written with one faction in mind more than others. The Nimbus arc is that key to the Romulan story that it's still included in the episode arc for them and relegated to side quests fro everybody else. The Klingon Civil war arc is written for Klingons, that's obvious when you don't just press 'F' to skip through all the complicated words.
It is still irrelevant what you consider regarding my 'theories'. It's an MMO, to feature any of the player characters in stories Cryptic needs to make certain assumptions and for the KDF the main assumptions is that the character is a TNG style honour obsessed Klingon and not any other species in the Empire or any other behaviour type of Klingon.
In conclusion you need to pay far more attention to the words in missions as well as how MMOs work in general.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
I thought Molor was their Leader, He was the only Klingon that was able to control and command them when he was alive.
So then please present some evidence. So far you have just stated your interpretations...
just because you THINK it is that way doesn't make it true...
I have to rephrase what I said though - OF COURSE there are episodes for specific factions. But then they are either not available for other factions or done in a slightly different way. Look at the Disco missions for DSC characters vs all others.
I fail to see any evidence to that for the KDF civil war arc.
are you a writer for Cryptic or have any ties to the staff? If so then please share some insight. Otherwise, don't present your theories as facts...
What a kind of nonsense assumption is it to say they write an episode for just one specific race of one faction? Are there any "humans only" episodes?
You just went from "it is an episode FOR KDF", which I could be able to accept if presented with some evidence, to saying it is a story for just one small part of the whole setting. Maybe you are confusing FOR KDF with KDF driven or KDF focus or about KDF?
Also, honor obsessed is not related to the whole mysticism thing. And I stand by the statement that I do not think that all Klingons believe in "hell". Humans have different religions, right?
There's plenty of good story arcs in this game without making any kind of assumptions of what player characters are going to be, apart from starship captains for either KDF, Starfleet or another faction.
ok maybe my wording was bad - what I meant was that in real life, Thor is from Norse mythology. A god in what Christians like to call pagan beliefs. That, to me, is his origin, and where comics and fiction draw from.
He could very well be an alien, who came to Earth or whatever, we don't know that. We just know the first mention/appeareance is as a mythological creature.
In Marvel comics, he starts out as said God, but you come to know him as an alien from another planet. Much like the Stargate aliens really.
I don't know about Star Trek comics, I was just trying to point out that the setting in Marvel comics is different than in Star Trek.
@psychic powers vs flame souls:
well maybe they aren't
*coughKATRAcough* You'd not like the Vulcan's then.
Personally, I don't care about the supernatural aspect. I just don't want more Fek'Ihri because they're a pain in the neck to fight.
Haha sorry I wasn't aware I am dealing with an authority on how MMOs work or what goes on in the heads of Cryptic's writers...
Are you tied in with the company, do you have inside information from the writing department?
If not, then again, just because you WANT to believe something, doesn't make it true. Unless you can present some facts, that is all you are doing. Presenting your interpretation as truth doesn't make it valid, no matter how hard you stamp your foot.
You went from claiming that the episode(s) were written for KDF to the episodes being written for one specific race of one specific faction (Klingon), which ALSO has to believe in the mythical aspect of the story. That is pretty slim in my opinion.
The only valid thing to assume is that everyone is a starship captain for either KDF, STarfleet or another faction.
Of course there are race/faction specific episodes, but these are usually origin stories. Take the Disco arc which is presented differently for DSC characters and for all other factions.
So if your theory were true, the same should have been done for the current arc.
Could it be that you are confusing "written for KDF" with "KDF based" or "KDF driven"?
And I still think that it is unrealistic to assume every Klingon believes in the mythological aspects of the story. This has nothing to do with concepts of honor, but with religion. Humans have different religions, right?
If you want a great mix of Sci Fi and religion, go Warhammer 40k. Excellent setting, very well done, but SET UP DIFFERENTLY from the start. And I think very different from Star Trek.
I don't know about Star Trek comics, I just wanted to point out that (Marvel) comics are a different setting than Star Trek.
Thor originates from (Norse) mythology. Hence a mythological creature. In the comics he is depicted as an alien and a god. In mythology he is also a god. He might as well be an alien creature that came to Earth thousands of years ago (like the Stargate aliens) and be regarded as a god and enter (Norse) mythology. We don't know that.
We just know his "first appearance" is as a god in mythology. Talking about real life here, not Trek or comics.
The difference with psychic powers (or anything in Star Trek really), is that usually things are given with some kind of "scientific" explanation. Be it transporters, warp drive, psychic powers, whatnot.
But flaming souls, so far, are just that. Risen from (Klingon) hell, they are now floating around "real space". I haven't found an explanation yet...
That's a lot of words to simple say you have no clue what your talking about and don't read the text ingame.
Go give that a go and then come back in a few days and try again.
Good luck.
Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.
#TASforSTO
'...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
'...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
'...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek
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Only difference with a FED toon is that they can't say they've been to Grethor before as far as I could tell no speculation as to what they saw might be, which honestly would be in character with the season 3 onward federation where insulting people to their face by implying you're culturally superior was no longer the UFP MO, or at least not the first thing they did.
And while our character can be what ever you're still doing this with Adet'pa, Martok and J'Ula 2 of whom believe very strongly in the klingon mythology and the third isn't a total non-believer either even if somewhat more skeptical, so it would be rude of our character to openly speculate on the nature of what they're seeing. Even a Romulan wouldn't stupid enough to insult his allies in this situation.
that is exactly my point. Generally, both can exist, but it depends on the context. Here, the context is Star Trek, where for every "magical" thing (transporters etc.) they give a "scientific" explanation. Of course most of it is just mumbo jumbo that the writers cook up, how could it be not? But overall it creates the image of a rational, intellect driven world.
Marvel comics are fair game. Everything can exist. In 40K, you'd expect people who start argumenting on logical terms ("there are no facts to support the existence of a Machine god") to be burned as heretics.
With that context in mind I see the Fek'lhri stories - and that is why I am not the biggest fan and I don't need more of it. But to each his own. We will see what Cryptic has in store
Thank you.
I don't need to try again though
Maybe one day you can come out of your "I want to BELIEVE, and I KNOW I am right" box, and we can have a discussion - looking forward to it!
cheers,