test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Janeway Class (First 32nd Century Ship for STO) Incoming

1121315171821

Comments

  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,691 Arc User
    Explored being the key word here. Even in the 7th season Seven admits she doesn't understand herself, of many basic human concepts like sexuality. You can't say she was any one way or another when even the character doesn't know themselves.

    Given she created holodeck fantasies with and eventually had a real romantic relationship with Chakotay, it seems pretty clear to me she figured out who she was.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Given she created holodeck fantasies with and eventually had a real romantic relationship with Chakotay, it seems pretty clear to me she figured out who she was.
    Given that in official Trek canon, the Trek novelverse, and in STO's timeline, that relationship didn't work out... have you ever considered she just fell for her first crush, and like most first crushes, it wasn't really what she ended up settling on later in life?
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,691 Arc User
    Given that in official Trek canon, the Trek novelverse, and in STO's timeline, that relationship didn't work out... have you ever considered she just fell for her first crush, and like most first crushes, it wasn't really what she ended up settling on later in life?

    That is absolutely possible. Again, I have no objection to her character development. Let her have a relationship with Kermit the frog for all I care. I just find the notion she was always bisexual a bit of a stretch, but that is just an opinion.

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • navar#3536 navar Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Given that in official Trek canon, the Trek novelverse, and in STO's timeline, that relationship didn't work out... have you ever considered she just fell for her first crush, and like most first crushes, it wasn't really what she ended up settling on later in life?

    That is absolutely possible. Again, I have no objection to her character development. Let her have a relationship with Kermit the frog for all I care. I just find the notion she was always bisexual a bit of a stretch, but that is just an opinion.

    Always has been? No. Has she explored her sexuality over the many years and coming to the conclusion that she has an attraction to both sexes? Yes.

    Looking at this logically and with a bit of psychology, I do not believe upon character creation and concept that she was ever intended to be TRIBBLE. I know the LGBT were hoping she would develop that way on the STV series but she never went that direction; she was simply not written in to the show in that way. Now, with the new Star Trek and the new writers who had nothing to do with her original creation concept who are now at the helm of her character, they can make her whatever they want her to be regardless of what she once was or was not.

    Same as with Golden Age Green Lantern. He was never TRIBBLE, but once new writers got a hold of the character, suddenly he was TRIBBLE and suddenly he was always TRIBBLE the entire time. Writers have the power to make characters anything they want them to be, regardless of how they were initially intended to be. This is why fans of any franchise have such a hard time with characters suddenly switching orientations or races, because if the character was not intended to be that way from the start, it becomes a hard pill to swallow that suddenly they change from what they originally were.

    At least with the new upcoming black Superman, they are using a different Kryptonian from a different reality, completely acceptable because it is not the same person, he is a completely different person who has his own personality, his own beliefs and was sent to Earth instead of Kal-el. The same thing goes with Miles Morales' Spiderman, people accept it because the character was black straight from the first page...and fans love him. We can also say the same thing about Badger, Wolverine's son who is bisexual, nobody cared what his sexual orientation was, people loved him regardless because he is his own character, not a rewrite of another existing character.

    However, suddenly changing a character's sexual orientation or changing their race from their original identity becomes a huge issue for many people. People get bent out of shape if even the smallest of detail in a movie, comic or book contradicts what they know of a character...if that drives fans insane, imagine how they feel when you change a major detail such as sexual orientation or ethnicity?

    This same logic can be applied to why so many people absolutely hate the Janeway 32nd century ship.
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,691 Arc User
    Always has been? No. Has she explored her sexuality over the many years and coming to the conclusion that she has an attraction to both sexes? Yes.

    I like to think of it as due to Chakotay being so lame a guy she decided women were better. :smiley:
    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,338 Arc User
    edited March 4
    Regarding Seven's sexuality, Pay attention to bejazel's implications concernin g their past involvement. While she didn't come out and directly say it, it is very easy to infer that they were more than just associates. Rafi and her intertwining their fingers may have simply been a visual confirmation of what had been implied earlier in the season.

    We are looking at many years between Voyager and Picard. Clearly a LOT has happened.

    Regarding Rafi, because she once had a husband and has a son, it's entirely possible that she's bi. but she could be a full-on lsbn as well. It is not without precedence for homosexuals to come out of the closet after living for years as a heterosexual. complete with a spouse of the opposite sex and children.
    When it comes to MMOs, I wear prescription glasses. Whether or not they are rose-tinted is beside the point.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,415 Arc User
    > @valoreah said:
    > I like to think of it as due to Chakotay being so lame a guy she decided women were better. :smiley:

    I know you probably didn't mean it like that, but implying a women's sexuality is decided by a man's 'prowess' is pretty chauvinist.

    @navar#3536 She could never be anything but straight on VGR as the network's censors would have never allowed it in prime time TV. However, it is also not unusual for people to discover their sexuality very late in life due to a number of reasons, women especially are under a lot of societal pressure to fulfill arbitrary expectations their whole life, so it's not implausible, especially considering she was assimilated at a young age. But, bottom line, the whole angle was certainly unnecessary and like many things in Kurtzman's new shows leads absolutely nowhere 😅
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • valoreahvaloreah Member Posts: 10,691 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    I know you probably didn't mean it like that, but implying a women's sexuality is decided by a man's 'prowess' is pretty chauvinist.

    Indeed that was not what I was implying. But I really do think Chakotay is that lame. :smiley:

    Dear Devs: I enjoyed the Legacy of Romulus expansion much more than the Delta Rising expansion. .
    thecosmic1 wrote:
    Anyone calling Valoreah a "Cryptic fanboy" must be new to the forum.

    Get the Forums Enhancement Extension!
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 3,632 Arc User
    edited March 4
    Wasn't there also a meta reason that they paired Chakotay with Seven specifically to TRIBBLE his actor off even more until the very end because he was insufferable (not completely without good reasons) to everyone and because Mulgrew really didn't want to have her captain romance her first officer?

    Plus, there were several members of the cast, including Mulgrew, Wang, Beltran (this one jokingly... perhaps) who were ready to have their characters be g.a.y, but like with Bashir and Garak, the producers torpedoed the ideas.
    #TASforSTO
    Iconian_Trio_sign.jpg?raw=1
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 2,632 Arc User
    .
    valoreah wrote: »
    mattingly1 wrote: »
    My personal belief is that the problem is mostly gutless producers. Kathleen Kennedy is, of course, the chief example of this - a creatively handicapped hanger-on of no real talent who simply orbited powerful people until her time came. Nothing about Star Wars ever-did-or-does matter to her - George could have been directing claymation movies about South American exorcisms, and if they had been making bank, she'd have gotten on board with it.

    But it goes way beyond the personal flaws of one malicious individual - Hollywood (and the producers are where the industry's rubber meets the road) is terrified of risk. They've become infatuated with the sequel; the prequel; the reboot; the "reimagining." When was the last time that you saw a movie that didn't have a pre-established fanbase who the studio already had lined up and ready to sell to? Sure, stand-alone films do still happen, but the lineup of summer blockbusters have just become a who's who of repetition: MCU, Disney cartoons, Disney live action remakes, Star Wars, DC, James Bond, Fast and the Furious, etc., etc., etc.

    People still have ideas; people can still write a good script. But those ideas aren't reaching production because it makes more financial sense to farm the masses addicted to recycled IPs. And the more you pile on, the more writers and directors stretch to create something unique. Thus, the obsession with subversion. How do we shock an audience who literally knows every move we could possibly make? Why, we do something awful! It doesn't matter if it's illogical or disappointing - it's a twist! And that's art! Or something!

    Well said and spot on. If I could upvote this a thousand times, I would.

    I read a few articles about the comics industry back when they were slipping down the slope into the "iron" and "rust" ages of comics that said much the same thing. The industry byword back then became "If you can't wow them, shock them".

    While that is not precisely what is happening in Hollywood right now, there is a very similar implosion in creativity, a move to generic homogenization of each genre in look and feel and the substitution of eye candy and action for depth.

  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 800 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Given that in official Trek canon, the Trek novelverse, and in STO's timeline, that relationship didn't work out... have you ever considered she just fell for her first crush, and like most first crushes, it wasn't really what she ended up settling on later in life?

    That is absolutely possible. Again, I have no objection to her character development. Let her have a relationship with Kermit the frog for all I care. I just find the notion she was always bisexual a bit of a stretch, but that is just an opinion.

    In a story narration...there was no simple foreshadowing of that nature to come. It was just dropped.

    SPACE---The Last and Great Frontier. A 10 year journey
    49158602353_d7aa42e67a_w.jpg


  • livinlifejb90#4082 livinlifejb90 Member Posts: 83 Arc User
    edited March 4
    In regard to Seven: sexuality is fluid and dynamic. No one is born anything. It develops and it can change over time. That being said, any assumption of someone's sexuality is inherently a flawed one because you don't know. And basing that assumption on the relationships people have (the ones you know about anyway) is even more flawed. Also bisexual people, are still bisexual even if they have heterosexual relationships. Even if they have a stronger preference for the opposite sex, they are still bisexual. Just because Seven had only been seen having relationships with men never at any point negated the possibility of her being bisexual.

    Also the "assumed straight until proven otherwise" is a really gross and unintelligent way to think about characters and real people too, actually. Unfortunately we live in a society where LGBTQ+ characters need to be like covertly revealed instead of just having their existence explicitly stated and without debate, unlike straight characters who are literally shoved down everyone's throats in almost everything on TV and in films. And even more unfortunately is that this is usually done for the comfort of the straight viewer, because apparently their comfort matters when they could just change the channel or some TRIBBLE.

    Basically its not as simple as people are making it out to be in this thread. And I see a lot of the same, old, tired arguments used by straight people to argue why a character should be straight, and nah. This ain't it.
    gQytlm7.jpg
  • ussvaliant2#1952 ussvaliant2 Member Posts: 227 Arc User
    Saw my 1st one of these in a TFO and ugh!!! it's ugly.
    https://i.imgur.com/R28e0Mi.jpg

    “If you have a problem figuring out whether you’re having Lag or Rubber-banding,” “then you ain’t playing Star Trek Online.”
  • navar#3536 navar Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    In regard to Seven: sexuality is fluid and dynamic. No one is born anything.

    I know a lot of L and G people who would STRONGLY disagree with you here. I'm sure you did not mean that as an absolute though, I just wanted to point that out for clarification purposes.

  • mercgargoylemercgargoyle Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    I am amused more than anything else about how despite all the revulsion for the Janeway 32nd class that a surprising amount of people bought it. You can get yours as well for a measly 1.5 Billion EC.
  • navar#3536 navar Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    I am amused more than anything else about how despite all the revulsion for the Janeway 32nd class that a surprising amount of people bought it. You can get yours as well for a measly 1.5 Billion EC.

    Let's not and pretend I did? :p
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 2,632 Arc User
    I am amused more than anything else about how despite all the revulsion for the Janeway 32nd class that a surprising amount of people bought it. You can get yours as well for a measly 1.5 Billion EC.

    Even a small percentage of the playerbase is LOT of people, so of course the things sold even though most people here and in chat say they dislike it. Tastes differ, and like Carlin said "if you nail any two things together some TRIBBLE will buy it".
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    .
    In regard to Seven: sexuality is fluid and dynamic. No one is born anything. It develops and it can change over time. That being said, any assumption of someone's sexuality is inherently a flawed one because you don't know. And basing that assumption on the relationships people have (the ones you know about anyway) is even more flawed

    I'm fine with Seven being bi, my issue is that they didn't do anything to build or suggest anything between her and Raffi and then suddenly they're holding hands, that's not good storytelling and honestly makes me think they did it for the publicity rather than as a sincere attempt at inclusion.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
    QIBp95C.png
  • navar#3536 navar Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    edited March 5
    I am taking a stance...if anyone joins any of my teams with that hideous ship, they will be kicked immediately and placed on global ignore without any explanations whatsoever. Furthermore I will find out what Fleet they belong to and I will systematically Global Ignore every last one of them for the crime of harboring a known criminal who has been charged with buying fugly ships in the 1st degree with intent to hurt thine eyes. These are very serious crimes...and these criminals will be ignored to the fullest extent of the law.

    Furthermore, anyone caught flying one of these monstrosities will be hunted down like the dogs they are and ignored repeatedly until they die, where there will be a medic on sight to revive them, just so that they can be ignored yet again.

    Buy a Janeway Class Pukeship...I dare you.
  • mercgargoylemercgargoyle Member Posts: 16 Arc User
    I am taking a stance...if anyone joins any of my teams with that hideous ship, they will be kicked immediately and placed on global ignore without any explanations whatsoever. Furthermore I will find out what Fleet they belong to and I will systematically Global Ignore every last one of them for the crime of harboring a known criminal who has been charged with buying fugly ships in the 1st degree with intent to hurt thine eyes. These are very serious crimes...and these criminals will be ignored to the fullest extent of the law.

    Furthermore, anyone caught flying one of these monstrosities will be hunted down like the dogs they are and ignored repeatedly until they die, where there will be a medic on sight to revive them, just so that they can be ignored yet again.

    Buy a Janeway Class Pukeship...I dare you.

    Seems a tad extreme over an odd to weird looking ship imo.

  • navar#3536 navar Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    I am taking a stance...if anyone joins any of my teams with that hideous ship, they will be kicked immediately and placed on global ignore without any explanations whatsoever. Furthermore I will find out what Fleet they belong to and I will systematically Global Ignore every last one of them for the crime of harboring a known criminal who has been charged with buying fugly ships in the 1st degree with intent to hurt thine eyes. These are very serious crimes...and these criminals will be ignored to the fullest extent of the law.

    Furthermore, anyone caught flying one of these monstrosities will be hunted down like the dogs they are and ignored repeatedly until they die, where there will be a medic on sight to revive them, just so that they can be ignored yet again.

    Buy a Janeway Class Pukeship...I dare you.

    Seems a tad extreme over an odd to weird looking ship imo.

    Extreme ugly ships are cause for extreme measures!
  • truewarpertruewarper Member Posts: 800 Arc User
    valoreah wrote: »
    Given that in official Trek canon, the Trek novelverse, and in STO's timeline, that relationship didn't work out... have you ever considered she just fell for her first crush, and like most first crushes, it wasn't really what she ended up settling on later in life?

    That is absolutely possible. Again, I have no objection to her character development. Let her have a relationship with Kermit the frog for all I care. I just find the notion she was always bisexual a bit of a stretch, but that is just an opinion.

    *Ahem* A Certain Pig Lady, would have issue with that. :D

    SPACE---The Last and Great Frontier. A 10 year journey
    49158602353_d7aa42e67a_w.jpg


  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,338 Arc User
    I am amused more than anything else about how despite all the revulsion for the Janeway 32nd class that a surprising amount of people bought it. You can get yours as well for a measly 1.5 Billion EC.

    See? This is what I've been talking about. How it doesn't matter how many of us say we hate the Janeway Class and outright refuse to buy it, it is still selling. And we have absolutely no way to know for sure how many who said they wouldn't actually did. We can be as vocally opposed to it as we want, but just so long as Cryptic hits the magic number of people needed to make it reach its profit margin, our vocal opposition is irrelevant...

    Most of the people who buy in spite of vocal opposition do not even read the forums, reddit or social media. They see new thing. They want new thing. They buy new thing. Simple as that.

    Cryptic knows how many people play. They know how many people buy. As long as theit players to buyers ratio falls withing profitable range, nothing else matters. They do not care about the people who don't buy or why those people don't buy. That will only become relevant when the players who buy stop buying or drop in number below the profitability threshold.
    When it comes to MMOs, I wear prescription glasses. Whether or not they are rose-tinted is beside the point.
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,338 Arc User
    I am taking a stance...if anyone joins any of my teams with that hideous ship, they will be kicked immediately and placed on global ignore without any explanations whatsoever. Furthermore I will find out what Fleet they belong to and I will systematically Global Ignore every last one of them for the crime of harboring a known criminal who has been charged with buying fugly ships in the 1st degree with intent to hurt thine eyes. These are very serious crimes...and these criminals will be ignored to the fullest extent of the law.

    Furthermore, anyone caught flying one of these monstrosities will be hunted down like the dogs they are and ignored repeatedly until they die, where there will be a medic on sight to revive them, just so that they can be ignored yet again.

    Buy a Janeway Class Pukeship...I dare you.

    I know who I never want to group with... And I will not be buying the Janeway Class.
    When it comes to MMOs, I wear prescription glasses. Whether or not they are rose-tinted is beside the point.
  • navar#3536 navar Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    I am amused more than anything else about how despite all the revulsion for the Janeway 32nd class that a surprising amount of people bought it. You can get yours as well for a measly 1.5 Billion EC.

    See? This is what I've been talking about. How it doesn't matter how many of us say we hate the Janeway Class and outright refuse to buy it, it is still selling. And we have absolutely no way to know for sure how many who said they wouldn't actually did. We can be as vocally opposed to it as we want, but just so long as Cryptic hits the magic number of people needed to make it reach its profit margin, our vocal opposition is irrelevant...

    Most of the people who buy in spite of vocal opposition do not even read the forums, reddit or social media. They see new thing. They want new thing. They buy new thing. Simple as that.

    Cryptic knows how many people play. They know how many people buy. As long as theit players to buyers ratio falls withing profitable range, nothing else matters. They do not care about the people who don't buy or why those people don't buy. That will only become relevant when the players who buy stop buying or drop in number below the profitability threshold.

    Some people buy it strictly for consoles, do they not? Assuming it is lockbox ship, I honestly don't know.
  • navar#3536 navar Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    I am taking a stance...if anyone joins any of my teams with that hideous ship, they will be kicked immediately and placed on global ignore without any explanations whatsoever. Furthermore I will find out what Fleet they belong to and I will systematically Global Ignore every last one of them for the crime of harboring a known criminal who has been charged with buying fugly ships in the 1st degree with intent to hurt thine eyes. These are very serious crimes...and these criminals will be ignored to the fullest extent of the law.

    Furthermore, anyone caught flying one of these monstrosities will be hunted down like the dogs they are and ignored repeatedly until they die, where there will be a medic on sight to revive them, just so that they can be ignored yet again.

    Buy a Janeway Class Pukeship...I dare you.

    I know who I never want to group with... And I will not be buying the Janeway Class.

    lol :D
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,068 Arc User
    I am taking a stance...if anyone joins any of my teams with that hideous ship, they will be kicked immediately and placed on global ignore without any explanations whatsoever. Furthermore I will find out what Fleet they belong to and I will systematically Global Ignore every last one of them for the crime of harboring a known criminal who has been charged with buying fugly ships in the 1st degree with intent to hurt thine eyes. These are very serious crimes...and these criminals will be ignored to the fullest extent of the law.

    Furthermore, anyone caught flying one of these monstrosities will be hunted down like the dogs they are and ignored repeatedly until they die, where there will be a medic on sight to revive them, just so that they can be ignored yet again.

    Buy a Janeway Class Pukeship...I dare you.

    The game does not have a ‘kick’ feature, so good luck with that.

    Also if you think you can hunt someone down to ignore them then the word ‘ignore’ does not mean what you think it means.
    animated.gif
    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,295 Arc User
    Just be glad that this is on CBS and not the CW.

    And sometimes 'Y'.
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,415 Arc User
    > @truewarper said:
    > *Ahem* A Certain Pig Lady, would have issue with that. :D

    Ah no, it's fine... Oh, I see... 🐗😅

    But back on topic, how are the weapons? Do they come with unique visuals?
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,689 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    > @truewarper said:
    > *Ahem* A Certain Pig Lady, would have issue with that. :D

    Ah no, it's fine... Oh, I see... 🐗😅

    But back on topic, how are the weapons? Do they come with unique visuals?

    The Janeway comes with 32c phaser weapons but they're non-upgradable.

    Cryptic decided you have to buy the 32c phaser upgradable weapons separately.

    & they do seem to have a new visual for them. Also, I think the Janeway's new cloaking is a new visual as well.
Sign In or Register to comment.