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Janeway Class (First 32nd Century Ship for STO) Incoming

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  • vegeta50024vegeta50024 Member Posts: 2,179 Arc User
    This is beyond ridiculous.

    We have a ship that won't be in active service for 700 YEARS. This goes way beyond a ship that is rare. This is a ship that simply does not belong.

    Now... If Cryptic were to create a branch of the game set in the 32nd century that is isolated from the core game, in which our 32nd century character serves on the USS Janeway, and they treated it like an on-going series that gives us a reason to keep coming back to it, I would actually pay money to play that content.

    But hell... CBS doesn't care about Star Trek continuity... Why should Cryptic?

    Well, time travel solves everything. Its why we have 29th and 31st century ships in game, among others. Of course... time travel is banned where this thing comes from (though no one can stop it from happening, so who cares?)

    I don't like the inclusion of those ships either.

    We should have been given a choice of eras rather than just a mish mosh of everything just thrown together willy nilly with no meaning or purpose.

    Yes... "Time travel solves everything" It's one of the most done to death tropes in Star Trek. So far, Discovery is the first Trek show to not only strand the crew in a time period not of their own, but actually integrate them into that era with a clear implication that they are not going back. It works, because you can take an outdated ship, gut its systems and replace them with contemporary ones, refit the hull and upgrade offensive and defensive systems, thus making it viable for contemporary use.

    But we have a ship from 700 years in the future. This thing needs to have the stats of a Tier 100 ship. It should by its very nature outclass every ship in the game with the 29th and 31st century ships maybe standing a chance to hold their own in comparrison. And we won't just see one of these... They'll be popping up all over the place.

    By that logic of what the Janeway class should be, The 26th, 29th, and 31st century ships should be higher tiers as well, because they come from farther into the future. Yet they are about on par with 25th century ships and even earlier ships because STO is about making things fair on the level of how ships compete at the same level competitively.
    STO is turning into one huge joke.

    S3 of discovery could have and should have been a huge opportunity for Cryptic to go: We now have a Star Trek show set in the 32nd century. Let's create a branch of STO that we can use to explore the potential storytelling in that era.

    But no... We get a lockbox ship. Quick and easy money for yet more meaningless fluff.

    First off, I want to say that as always, you expect too much when it comes to the team for STO. As it stands, they have just enough people to provide content for an episode or two every few months.

    Yet, you want them to open up more sections of the game specifically for the purpose of exploring a new era. An era that, hardly has anything known about the rest of the galaxy beyond what Discovery has already shown from season 3. We don't even know the current status of the Klingons. I'm pretty sure that 32nd century is off the table for storytelling.
    Agents of Yesterday was an opportunity for Cryptic to give STO an on-going 23rd century branch to the game. But no... Once the introduction is over it's a jump to the 25th century where we can continue with our character from the 23rd century doing the same junk our regular 25th century characters do...

    Agents of Yesterday was NEVER an opportunity for them to do an on-going branch to the game. The intent was for them to pay tribute for a few classic follow-up stories to classic episodes, introduce the Na'kuhl and bring the TOS Fed character into the 25th century, where the bulk of the story takes place. Hence why they didn't build the map any bigger than around the few sectors they did.
    Legacy of Romulus was an opportunity to give STO a branch in which we can enjoy a romulan storyline. But once the intro is done, we get to choose red or blue, and again continue to advance using content that our other characters already do]

    Every chance they have to give a unique experience within what starts out as a unique branch just gets rolled into the same mediocre BS...

    Wrong on Legacy of Romulus. They gave us a good number of episodes for the Romulans, even more so than what the Klingons get.

    After we choose an ally, we go through an arc where we discover that the Tal Shiar don't even trust their own people to give information, to infiltrating them to see what it is that they're up to. We then progress into the Nimbus arc where we not only kick out the Orions out of Nimbus but also the Tal Shiar and come face to face with the Elachi in person for the first time. From there, we deal with many attacks from the Elachi ending with an all out assault by them on New Romulus. Romulan Mystery is of course when we the original Romulan story and have them join up with the rest of the game from that point.
    But they aren't even bothering to give us an intro set in the 32nd century before throwing us back in time to the same mediocre stuff.

    Just a gamble box. One and done. Next...

    I bet we don't even get a ship interior with the Janeway class... Hell... I bet we don't even get a bridge.

    Not going to throw money at this. Launch a story arc set in the 32nd century, charge for it, and let this ship be part of it, and I will buy it. But the ship by itself in a gamble box... No.

    Like I said, we don't really have much more information on what to expect and since Season 4 continues on where Season 3 did, they probably want to let it simmer before they bring anything in from then. Just like they're being cautious about story elements from Picard. So no, we're not getting any story elements from Season 3 just yet.

    We're definitely going to not get a bridge. No 32nd century bridges have been shown thus far in the series, much less a complete interior.


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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    edited February 27
    snip
    Not to mention, the very idea of continuously running a TOS, DSC, ROM, KDF, etc. branch of the game, wholly separate from all the others, doesn't even make sense. It would be like asking Blizzard to not only continue the normal WoW timeline, but also the alternate "Iron Horde" timeline from the "Warlords of Draenor" expansion, in all future content updates. Essentially, it's asking for them to keep two entirely different games running at the same time. That simply isn't feasible for any team, no matter the size.

    And in the case of all of these groups/time periods, there is only so much content one can reasonably pull from them. Like, Legacy of Romulus, when combined with the Cloaked Intentions arc, saw the player
    • Start on a small colony world that gets attacked by unknown aliens, forcing the player to join the Republic for safety(Tutorial arc)
    • Helping the Republic make allies, and find a new homeworld(From the Ashes)
    • Investigate supposed crimes by the Republic(Allies)
    • Infiltrate the Tal Shiar to learn more about their plans(In Shadows)
    • Go to Nimbus to investigate WMDs, the Tal Shiar, and their mysterious allies(Wasteland)
    • Put a stop to the Elachi's attacks on the Republic(Vengeance)
    • Help the Remans earn their freedom, finally destroy the Tal Shiar, and see Sela's kidnapping which led to the collapse of the Romulan Star Empire(Cloaked Intentions)
    By the end of LoR, and the Reman arc, what exactly is there left to do exclusively for the Romulans? All of their enemies are defeated, and they are pretty well secure in their space.

    The same with the Klingons. The early Klingon missions covered
    • The war with the Federation
    • Conflicts between the Great Houses
    • Romulan interference in Klingon affairs
    • All the major backbones of Klingon mythology(Kahless, the Sword of Kahless, Molor, Fek'Ihri)
    Besides dealing with the much hinted at "J'mpok being a power mad loon", which we are dealing with right now, there isn't much left to cover for the Klingons specifically.

    The same can be said even more for the ENT/DSC/TOS eras, which only have so many episodes to base stuff on compared to the TNG/DS9/VOY era, which makes up 64% of all Trek episodes.

    This is why STO, WoW, ESO, GW2, TOR, etc. typically stop doing stories based on any one faction, and instead have however many factions there are all deal with the same problems, which aren't specifically related to them. Not only does it not make sense from a development standpoint, it doesn't make sense from a narrative one either.
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    Guessing this is some disco trash ship that, in keeping with star fleet traditions, has the nacelles being fitted on tuesday but left spacedock a week early.
  • bigblackafricabigblackafrica Member Posts: 103 Arc User
    It is not possible for me to want this ship less than I do. Luckily it is a promo drop so I can easily ignore it.
  • faxmachine#9639 faxmachine Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    I've got a hypothetical queston for @somtaawkhar

    Imagine STO actually had unique stories for each faction. Now imagine some random person on the forums was making the argument that they should stop and combine all the stories together.

    Imagine that person was using the same arguments you are using now, how it would be easier for the devs and how other games do it.

    Now be honest: would you actually agree with that person and say they should stop the unique stories, or would you be arguing against it and in favor of keeping the unique stories?
  • maxx106maxx106 Member Posts: 12 Arc User
    I like the look of the ship except I have to ask....where are the pylons for the warp nacelles?
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    I've got a hypothetical queston for @somtaawkhar

    Imagine STO actually had unique stories for each faction. Now imagine some random person on the forums was making the argument that they should stop and combine all the stories together.

    Imagine that person was using the same arguments you are using now, how it would be easier for the devs and how other games do it.

    Now be honest: would you actually agree with that person and say they should stop the unique stories, or would you be arguing against it and in favor of keeping the unique stories?
    The KDF, ROM, and TOS, characters do have unique stories, up to a certain point.

    Had Cryptic tried to keep totally unique stories for each faction we would still probably be back in Delta Rising, if even that. The game would be moving at a snail's pace narratively, since the dev's attention would be split between trying to progress all the factional stories at the same time.

    If it made it to 11 years old, like it is now(which I doubt it would have trying that) I would be legitimately concerned about the game ever actually finishing its primary plot of the Iconian manipulation. Any MMO making it to 10 years of active content development is a pretty big rarity, and no one should design a singular story to last that long given how uncertain such a length of game life is.

    I also struggle to see how they would write STO's various storylines in such a way that the Feds, KDF, Roms, etc. actually got unique storylines. Things like the Breen Invasion of Defera have no direct connection to any of the major factions, so the idea their stories for that arc would be different makes no sense. There would have to be some really forced writing to justify it.

    Given how little content each faction would have in such a situation, the forced nature of the writing needed to justify it, and the complete lack of an obvious conclusion facing an uncertain future, i would honestly say I would say they need to ditch unique storylines, and get on with it.

    This OFC assumes the game could have ever made it as long as it has doing such a thing. I predict the game would have never gotten Legacy of Romulus had they gone that path, since they couldn't justify adding another faction story to keep continuing, and the game would have most likely closed in year 4.
  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,689 Arc User
    Not sure if it is good or bad, didn't sift through half a dozen of pages of posts, but it definitely seems this future Starfleet Janeway ship has provoked reactions.

    For any that don't recognize the ship at all I'd say that is one of the problems with placing current Star Trek content behind a paywall, there's simply not as many eyeballs viewing it as would be if it wasn't behind a paywall.

    If it had been a Zen Store ship I would've considered it, & this might be a lingering disappointment from Cryptic's 2021 Legend Bundle but this being a gamble ship almost makes me glad so it won't be a temptation almost at all.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,870 Arc User
    edited February 27
    So this is why the Warship Voyager release wasn't made like a sci warship.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,870 Arc User
    edited February 27
    Still waiting for a C-Store T6 Nova, Saber, Steamrunner and Norway Classes. Couldn't careless about these 32nd Century ships
    And in my case Oberth too among whatever other ships which aren't yet T6.

  • faelon#8433 faelon Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    Truly the finest ship for the N64 Console players!
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    maxx106 wrote: »
    I like the look of the ship except I have to ask....where are the pylons for the warp nacelles?

    Disco season 3 showed that 32nd century ships use detached nacelles, so there are no pylons.
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  • xlocutusofborgxxlocutusofborgx Member Posts: 1,372 Arc User
    I actually like it. Though I’ve always like the idea of seeing future starship designs. I like that it’s kept some of the aesthetics from the intrepid in some areas but showing a much more advance futuristic appearance.

    I remember the days when people couldn’t imagine seeing borg ships possibly flown by players, then came the borg lockbox. This game is dedicated to all generations of trek fans. You may not like it but someone else will. This game isn’t just for one person. I will gladly fly this ship once it goes live. I just hope they add a nice bridge to her.
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    R E S I S T A N C E - I S - F U T I L E
  • payback99payback99 Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited February 27
    In other words, it works exactly the same way the chainmail bikini works: fantasy nonsense. The difference here is you can look good wearing a chainmail bikini.
    You can never look good in a chainmail bikini.

    And no, it isn't fantasy nonsense. Tell me, which has more wind resistance? A 500 foot tall wall, or literally nothing? The answer is literally nothing.

    Having nothing offers the ultimate in terms of eliminating resistances to movement/turn speed, because there is nothing to be resisted against in the first place.

    Do you realize the insane power requirements that magical floating parts that don't just shoot off from each other would require? There's no negating of friction that would be so necessary that using a couple fleets worth of power that would make a magic floating parts ship needed. Also you don't experience wind resistance in space but you do experience friction.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    edited February 27
    payback99 wrote: »
    Do you realize the insane power requirements that magical floating parts that don't just shoot off from each other would require? There's no negating of friction that would be so necessary that using a couple fleets worth of power that would make a magic floating parts ship needed. Also you don't experience wind resistance in space but you do experience friction.
    Do you realize the insane amount of storage, computation power, and sheer energy, needed to take someone apart atom by atom, store it, and then recombine it somewhere else, to make teleporters work?

    Assuming a 30GHz bandwith for the transfer, it would take around 350,000 times longer than the universe's age to teleport one human, from Earth, to a position in orbit directly above their original position. And would require using up the entire power output of the UK for over a million years.

    And Trek does this many times daily.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    payback99 wrote: »
    In other words, it works exactly the same way the chainmail bikini works: fantasy nonsense. The difference here is you can look good wearing a chainmail bikini.
    You can never look good in a chainmail bikini.

    And no, it isn't fantasy nonsense. Tell me, which has more wind resistance? A 500 foot tall wall, or literally nothing? The answer is literally nothing.

    Having nothing offers the ultimate in terms of eliminating resistances to movement/turn speed, because there is nothing to be resisted against in the first place.

    Do you realize the insane power requirements that magical floating parts that don't just shoot off from each other would require? There's no negating of friction that would be so necessary that using a couple fleets worth of power that would make a magic floating parts ship needed. Also you don't experience wind resistance in space but you do experience friction.

    It's the 32nd century, at least 700 years after STO, I'm sure they've made advances in power generation to make the energy requirements trivial. A thousand years ago we fought wars with swords, now we have nuclear missiles. We can't even begin to guess what technology could be like over a thousand years from NOW, so the more fantastical they make it the better.
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  • navar#3536 navar Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    imffs wrote: »
    Ok. They're outright mocking us.

    Now they don't even pretend. This is just about the most non-Star Trek abomination of a ship even from fan fic.

    Amen to that. Star Trek has really turned in to something it never was meant to be IMO. I hate the new Star Trek. It once was my absolute favorite franchise and I knew everything about it...now, I don't even care about it and don't even bother trying to learn it anymore. This game and J.J. has truly destroyed everything Star Trek was to me. And now we have Discovery to tighten the grip around my neck to make things even worse. That ship...has J.J. written all over it, it's as if they didn't even try. Star Trek used to mean something...now, it has no meaning.
  • payback99payback99 Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited February 27
    payback99 wrote: »
    Do you realize the insane power requirements that magical floating parts that don't just shoot off from each other would require? There's no negating of friction that would be so necessary that using a couple fleets worth of power that would make a magic floating parts ship needed. Also you don't experience wind resistance in space but you do experience friction.
    Do you realize the insane amount of storage, computation power, and sheer energy, needed to take someone apart atom by atom, store it, and then recombine it somewhere else, to make teleporters work?

    Assuming a 30GHz bandwith for the transfer, it would take around 350,000 times longer than the universe's age to teleport one human, from Earth, to a position in orbit directly above their original position. And would require using up the entire power output of the UK for over a million years.

    And Trek does this many times daily.

    Yes teleporters are space magic but until Picard they aren't super space magic. But using the lore of the show a Ship can use a teleporter with the power it has. Now you are adding magical floating parts all over the place plus personal transporters to get to the inaccessible places plus the power requirements to hold all that junk together. At that point why not just use Picard teleporters to get everywhere? The problem is that new trek doesn't think things through they just make junk up without thinking of the consequences like putting an xmen baby that can cry Dilithium inert when species have been using, mining, living near, wearing Dilithium for thousands of years and yet somehow no other women in the history of the universe got a magical mutant baby? Then to explain why nobody does anything about it and to make the Discovery useful they somehow ban time travel but don't have anyone to enforce it because they destroyed the tech. Like why doesn't their enemies create their own time travel or considering they have magical floating ships now why doesn't just some grade schooler invent it since stuffs so advanced now?

    You seem really obsessed with this idea I hope you are one of the writers on the show otherwise I'm not sure how you can defend all this nonsense and if you are please for the love of god stop destroying lore so you can pump out ridiculous universe changing stuff without thinking of the repercusions.
    It's the 32nd century, at least 700 years after STO, I'm sure they've made advances in power generation to make the energy requirements trivial. A thousand years ago we fought wars with swords, now we have nuclear missiles. We can't even begin to guess what technology could be like over a thousand years from NOW, so the more fantastical they make it the better.
    Yeah in a Universe where they couldn't find an alternative to Dilithium usage even though other species already had the tech. The power they would need is so vast that its pointless invention. Why not just have multiple ships grouped together? Or super teleporters? If every part of the ship was its own ship it would be a thousand times more useful. Heck even pumping that energy into better shields or weapons would be a million times more useful than magic ship parts.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    edited February 27
    payback99 wrote: »
    Yes teleporters are space magic but until Picard they aren't super space magic. But using the lore of the show a Ship can use a teleporter with the power it has. Now you are adding magical floating parts all over the place plus personal transporters to get to the inaccessible places plus the power requirements to hold all that junk together. At that point why not just use Picard teleporters to get everywhere? The problem is that new trek doesn't think things through they just make junk up without thinking of the consequences like putting an xmen baby that can cry Dilithium inert when species have been using, mining, living near, wearing Dilithium for thousands of years and yet somehow no other women in the history of the universe got a magical mutant baby? Then to explain why nobody does anything about it and to make the Discovery useful they somehow ban time travel but don't have anyone to enforce it because they destroyed the tech. Like why doesn't their enemies create their own time travel or considering they have magical floating ships now why doesn't just some grade schooler invent it since stuffs so advanced now?

    You seem really obsessed with this idea I hope you are one of the writers on the show otherwise I'm not sure how you can defend all this nonsense and if you are please for the love of god stop destroying lore so you can pump out ridiculous universe changing stuff without thinking of the repercusions.
    A. Picard did nothing to change transporters.
    B. We are talking 900+ years in the future from TOS where they already had the technology to transport people. The power requirements for that would be minuscule for them. Also, personal transporters in the Tricom badge are powered by the badge, not the ship. So those have zero power requirements from the ship itself.
    C. Su'Kal wasn't a mutant because he was born near dilthium. The show explicitly states it was the subspace radiation in the nebula that mutated his DNA in utero that made him that way. His ability to affect dilthium was because of dilthium's subspace component, and the large amount of it on the planet he was on.
    D. Banning time travel, and destroying all time travel tech, after the Temporal Wars doesn't somehow make the time cops of Daniel's era stop existing to police the timeline.
    E. None of this destroys the lore, at all. Just like
    • When people said Burnham being a mutineer broke canon, because Spock said no such thing had happened in like S3 of TOS... despite the fact that Spock had been charged, and court-martialed, for committing mutiny earlier in the series, and it wasn't stated this was the first time it happened. Not to mention the time the crew mutinies while hyped up on spores, or Garth of Izar's crew mutinying against him.
    • When people said Discovery having a holodeck/holograms broke canon, because Geordi said holodeck were new in TNG... despite the fact we see a fully functional holodeck on the Enterprise in TAS. And Kirk using the same holographic communications tech Discovery does in the TMP novelization by Gene Roddenberry himself.
    • When people said Lorca and Burnham using intra-ship transporting broke canon because Spock said no one had ever done it before... when he actually said it was rarely done, not that it was never done, or had never been done.
    • When people complained about the Klingons mummifying their dead, being cannibals, using suicide tactics during war, or taking prisoners... when all of those things were mentioned as things Klingons did in either TOS, TNG, or DS9.
    • When people complained about Discovery having a large store of diltihum on board in S3... despite a dilthium vault being mentioned on the Enterprise in TAS
    And numerous other things people said Discovery broke canon on didn't.... since all of those things were canon long before Discovery.

    Generally speaking, I find that people complaining about things "breaking lore" are the people who know the least about the lore, or the things they claim break it.
  • navar#3536 navar Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    payback99 wrote: »
    Yes teleporters are space magic but until Picard they aren't super space magic. But using the lore of the show a Ship can use a teleporter with the power it has. Now you are adding magical floating parts all over the place plus personal transporters to get to the inaccessible places plus the power requirements to hold all that junk together. At that point why not just use Picard teleporters to get everywhere? The problem is that new trek doesn't think things through they just make junk up without thinking of the consequences like putting an xmen baby that can cry Dilithium inert when species have been using, mining, living near, wearing Dilithium for thousands of years and yet somehow no other women in the history of the universe got a magical mutant baby? Then to explain why nobody does anything about it and to make the Discovery useful they somehow ban time travel but don't have anyone to enforce it because they destroyed the tech. Like why doesn't their enemies create their own time travel or considering they have magical floating ships now why doesn't just some grade schooler invent it since stuffs so advanced now?

    You seem really obsessed with this idea I hope you are one of the writers on the show otherwise I'm not sure how you can defend all this nonsense and if you are please for the love of god stop destroying lore so you can pump out ridiculous universe changing stuff without thinking of the repercusions.

    [*] When people said Discovery having a holodeck/holograms broke canon, because Geordi said holodeck were new in TNG... despite the fact we see a fully functional holodeck on the Enterprise in TAS. And Kirk using the same holographic communications tech Discovery does in the TMP novelization by Gene Roddenberry himself.

    This is debatable. Roddenberry demanded that TAS be stricken from canon. He was not a fan and Paramount agreed to strike it from canon. However, a particular writer decided to reference some things that happened in TAS during the TNG show, so the idea that TAS is canon is very questionable and highly debatable.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    edited February 27
    This is debatable. Roddenberry demanded that TAS be stricken from canon. He was not a fan and Paramount agreed to strike it from canon. However, a particular writer decided to reference some things that happened in TAS during the TNG show, so the idea that TAS is canon is very questionable and highly debatable.
    Roddenberry also didn't think the movies were, or should be, canon. We see how far that went. Not to mention, Roddenberry doesn't control canon, CBS does. And, last CBS said about it, TAS was canon.

    We have also seen/heard several TAS only things like Kzinti, Vendorians, and Phylosians, in Picard, and Lower Decks. And TAS elements like the holodeck, and the on board diltihum vault, line up with Discovery.
  • navar#3536 navar Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    edited February 27
    This is debatable. Roddenberry demanded that TAS be stricken from canon. He was not a fan and Paramount agreed to strike it from canon. However, a particular writer decided to reference some things that happened in TAS during the TNG show, so the idea that TAS is canon is very questionable and highly debatable.
    Roddenberry also didn't think the movies were, or should be, canon. We see how far that went.

    Correction, only one movie was he upset about and that was Star Trek The Final Frontier. To my knowledge he had no qualms about any of the other movies.

    Not to mention, Roddenberry doesn't control canon, CBS does. And, last CBS said about it, TAS was canon.

    This is an issue all of its own. Since the fans of Star Trek seem split on this. Half the fans agree with Roddenberry and the other half are okay with whoever happens to own (own being the key word) the rights to the franchise. It is Roddenberry's creation, not CBS'. So half the fans are going to side with Roddenberry. So what may be canon for you will not always be canon for followers of Roddenberry. We have a similar issue with Lucas and Disney. Half the fans do not consider anything Disney does as canon because it did not receive the approval of Lucas. In retrospect, I suppose canon is up to the fans since the fans are now split. This always happens when a franchise is bought out...it tears the fans in half.
    We have also seen/heard several TAS only things like Kzinti, Vendorians, and Phylosians, in Picard, and Lower Decks. And TAS elements like the holodeck, and the on board diltihum vault, line up with Discovery.

    Same thing applies here. Half the fans are going to side with the person who created Star Trek...the person who's dream and direction of Star Trek was his creation. Others will side with whomever owns the franchise. Because of this, this topic will forever be debated and no one side will ever win over the other. It's an immovable object vs an unstoppable object...neither will prove to the other the "correct canon" because the selling of the industry has destroyed the core of what Star Trek (and Star Wars for that matter) is...or was. It is a very pointless argument because it literally has no conclusion.

    Edit: Typo corrected
  • michaelsdstmichaelsdst Member Posts: 81 Arc User
    edited February 27
    Canon or not, attached or not. there is no asesthethic reason not to call this monster ugly. They were doing much better ships without having CBS breathing down their necks with TRIBBLE and what not.
    GIVE US THE TYPHOON! Enough said...
  • payback99payback99 Member Posts: 31 Arc User
    edited February 27
    A. Picard did nothing to change transporters.
    B. We are talking 900+ years in the future from TOS where they already had the technology to transport people. The power requirements for that would be minuscule for them. Also, personal transporters in the Tricom badge are powered by the badge, not the ship. So those have zero power requirements from the ship itself.
    C. Su'Kal wasn't a mutant because he was born near dilthium. The show explicitly states it was the subspace radiation in the nebula that mutated his DNA in utero that made him that way. His ability to affect dilthium was because of dilthium's subspace component, and the large amount of it on the planet he was on.
    D. Banning time travel, and destroying all time travel tech, after the Temporal Wars doesn't somehow make the time cops of Daniel's era stop existing to police the timeline.
    E. None of this destroys the lore, at all. Just like
    • When people said Burnham being a mutineer broke canon, because Spock said no such thing had happened in like S3 of TOS... despite the fact that Spock had been charged, and court-martialed, for committing mutiny earlier in the series, and it wasn't stated this was the first time it happened. Not to mention the time the crew mutinies while hyped up on spores, or Garth of Izar's crew mutinying against him.
    • When people said Discovery having a holodeck/holograms broke canon, because Geordi said holodeck were new in TNG... despite the fact we see a fully functional holodeck on the Enterprise in TAS. And Kirk using the same holographic communications tech Discovery does in the TMP novelization by Gene Roddenberry himself.
    • When people said Lorca and Burnham using intra-ship transporting broke canon because Spock said no one had ever done it before... when he actually said it was rarely done, not that it was never done, or had never been done.
    • When people complained about the Klingons mummifying their dead, being cannibals, using suicide tactics during war, or taking prisoners... when all of those things were mentioned as things Klingons did in either TOS, TNG, or DS9.
    • When people complained about Discovery having a large store of diltihum on board in S3... despite a dilthium vault being mentioned on the Enterprise in TAS
    And numerous other things people said Discovery broke canon on didn't.... since all of those things were canon long before Discovery.

    Generally speaking, I find that people complaining about things "breaking lore" are the people who know the least about the lore, or the things they claim break it.
    A. I Don't have a perfect memory so you'll have to remind me where Federation teleporters could have tons of people just walking in and out of them in all directions just fine before Picard?
    B. Even if the power requirements were meaningless to them they would get more use out of using that power for other things. Why not use if for shields or weapons? There's literally no point of them existing like that.
    C. Yes and in the history of the entire universe it never happened to anyone else. Even though there are species that use Dilithium for jewelry. Not a single pregnant female got irradiated before plus been near Dilithium even though millions of beings use the stuff.
    D. If you destroy the tech you would also need to destroy the past tech. And even if they somehow didn't how is Daniels people going to even comprehend tech 1k+ years in the future to stop it when Discovery shows us just a few years(like 200ish if I remember right) later they are capable of creating magical ships with near infinite power? And how would they even know the "correct" timeline for the future without existing at some point even farther in the future to say all time travel is bad. Heck they even had some time travel tech in schools in Daniels time. What makes you think they would be ok with 100% ban and capable of doing so to some random alien species 90,000 years in the future?
    E. We already had Dilithium go inert before. We also had species that didn't use Antimatter/matter reactions for warp. We also have them so advanced they have magical floating ships and yet couldn't figure out a better solution for controlling antimatter/matter reactions and yet somehow have thousands upon thousands more powerful energy sources. How does that even work?

    Interesting how you had to bring up minor things that I honestly haven't heard anyone complain about to "prove" everyone being wrong about Discovery.

    It's funny how you claim you know lore when your whole argument for the nonsense was air resistance..... When you have 20 people constantly pointing out your foolishness I think its fair to assume you are the person that doesn't really know the lore. Much like the Picard and Discovery writers. I'm not going to claim I know everything about star trek lore but when a bunch of crazy stuff occurs its pretty easy to point it out.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    edited February 27
    Correction, only one movie was he upset about and that was Star Trek The Final Frontier. To my knowledge he had no qualms about any of the other movies.
    Nope, he infamously hated ALL the movies. In fact, he went to like the first screening of ST6, famously came out of the movie theater giving his thumbs up to the fans outside... then the moment he got in his car he was calling his up lawyer to sue pretty much everyone involved with the movie because of how much he hated it.
    This is an issue all of its own. Since the fans of Star Trek seem split on this.
    This isn't an issue, because what the fans think is wholly irrelevant to the conversation. Fans do not own Star Trek, CBS does. Fan opinions mean nothing in regards to canon. Canon is not something any fan gets to decide. The only things fans get to decide is their headcanon/fanon. But none of those have any bearing on canon.
    Same thing applies here.
    Same thing I said above applies here.
  • navar#3536 navar Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    Correction, only one movie was he upset about and that was Star Trek The Final Frontier. To my knowledge he had no qualms about any of the other movies.
    Nope, he infamously hated ALL the movies. In fact, he went to like the first screening of ST6, famously came out of the movie theater giving his thumbs up to the fans outside... then the moment he got in his car he was calling his up lawyer to sue pretty much everyone involved with the movie because of how much he hated it.
    This is an issue all of its own. Since the fans of Star Trek seem split on this.
    This isn't an issue, because what the fans think is wholly irrelevant to the conversation. Fans do not own Star Trek, CBS does. Fan opinions mean nothing in regards to canon. Canon is not something any fan gets to decide. The only things fans get to decide is their headcanon/fanon. But none of those have any bearing on canon.
    Same thing applies here.
    Same thing I said above applies here.

    I guess we can chop this up to some are more accepting of change than others. Some feel they have an understanding of what Star Trek was, others seem to be okay with almost any changes made in Star Trek as long as it's named Star Trek. It will forever be a continuing war between the now split fans who were once all together as one. It's sad really how a company buys out a franchise and then pretty much guts the franchise straight out of the box. It leaves fans at war with one another.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    I guess we can chop this up to some are more accepting of change than others. Some feel they have an understanding of what Star Trek was, others seem to be okay with almost any changes made in Star Trek as long as it's named Star Trek. It will forever be a continuing war between the now split fans who were once all together as one. It's sad really how a company buys out a franchise and then pretty much guts the franchise straight out of the box. It leaves fans at war with one another.
    Star Trek wasn't bought, its still owned by the same group it has been since long before Discovery was a thing. I also don't personally feel like it was gutted either.

    I don't even feel that way about Star wars, despite not liking the new star wars movies myself.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,076 Arc User
    edited February 27
    > @doctorstegi said:
    > I have been waiting on a really good Science Promo Ship but so far it looks nothing got the Verne beat. Actually the last good Promo Ships which came out were in my eyes the D7 and the Donnie. Everything else felt like lockbox ship or worse.

    Yep exactly. No competition for the Verne at all. I’m going to stick with that for sure. 😃

    And yep. Donnie is just awesome. So great that I’ll try to get a D7 as well now. Jugger, Tzenkethi, the flight deck cruiser and perhaps rikers ship remain the hotties of the pack.
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  • navar#3536 navar Member Posts: 188 Arc User
    I guess we can chop this up to some are more accepting of change than others. Some feel they have an understanding of what Star Trek was, others seem to be okay with almost any changes made in Star Trek as long as it's named Star Trek. It will forever be a continuing war between the now split fans who were once all together as one. It's sad really how a company buys out a franchise and then pretty much guts the franchise straight out of the box. It leaves fans at war with one another.
    Star Trek wasn't bought, its still owned by the same group it has been since long before Discovery was a thing. I also don't personally feel like it was gutted either.

    I don't even feel that way about Star wars, despite not liking the new star wars movies myself.

    Everyone has their own opinions. And correction on the owned part...to me, if the original creator does not own the franchise that they created, it was bought. The one good thing about Lucas is that he owned his own franchise...until he sold it.
  • thetaninethetanine Member Posts: 1,338 Arc User
    This is beyond ridiculous.

    We have a ship that won't be in active service for 700 YEARS. This goes way beyond a ship that is rare. This is a ship that simply does not belong.

    Now... If Cryptic were to create a branch of the game set in the 32nd century that is isolated from the core game, in which our 32nd century character serves on the USS Janeway, and they treated it like an on-going series that gives us a reason to keep coming back to it, I would actually pay money to play that content.

    But hell... CBS doesn't care about Star Trek continuity... Why should Cryptic?

    That's a slippery slope. I don't think it's because they don't care, I think it's because it's become so fragmented. The only groups who can really hold water in this day and age are the purists, such as the TOS and TNG groups. I include Voyager and DS9 in the TNG group. Anyways, the experts in those eras can pretty much walk a chalk line when it comes to their areas of expertise. But we don't live in the past, which leads to gaps in the presence of experts that show runners rely on to keep things in order. You see what I mean? As the Trek IP grows older, the finer details of the past--TOS, I think, probably to a larger degree--become less known, except to the fans of any given Star Trek era.

    So, when I say it's not that they don't care, it's more along the lines that they don't want to TRIBBLE off the fans. The fans supply the money that keeps it all going. We all agree on that, I think. =)
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