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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    edited February 18
    And honestly, if this bundle were really being marketed towards new players they would have included inventory/bank slots and XP boosts.
    Not really.

    One could easily argue that the Legendary Mirror Universe bundle was aimed at new players looking for a Mirror based experience, due to it containing many things, such as the uniforms, and ship/ground items, that dedicated Mirror players would already have.

    Not all bundles aimed at new players needs things like XP boosts, since many people prefer to level without them. There is also a difference between a new player, someone who has played for a little bit, and a just starting player, who is literally just getting into the game for the first time. Things like the Romulan, and Discovery, bundles are obviously aimed at the latter. While things like the Mirror bundle, are aimed at the former.
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,295 Arc User
    > @ltminns said:
    > You do know, we once had a 50% Lobi Sale.

    You do know, we have another 50% Lobi Sale, right now. ;)
    'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!
    Judge Dan Haywood
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,765 Bug Hunter
    Yea very nice for those who considering the Legendary Anniversary Bundle, and also for those who have some Lobi too...
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    strathkin wrote: »
    and also for those who have some Lobi too...

    I still had most of my Lobi from the last event campaign, I recently decided to change my Disco/JJ hybrid character to a TWoK/JJ hybrid and it was nice to be able to get the excursion jacket and 5 TWoK phasers for half off :)
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,894 Arc User
    You guys are preaching to the converted here. I agree 100%, but there is how we look at stuff and how a business looks at stuff.

    They are not going to PROVE their metrics to us. No MMO company would. We are not entitled to that information.

    We can scream "I WANT!" all day long. But unless it a;igns with what their INTERNAL numbers show, WE AIN'T GONNA GET.

    If we do not like something they offer, then we do not have to buy it. Maybe4 if enough people give the bundle a hard pass, they'll make other considerations.

    I tell you though, even though people have screamed "I don't want that" in the past, I have seen plenty of instances of those things in the game. Someone is buying. Just not the ones who complain about it here. All they have to do is hit the magic number on their profit projections and whatever it is will be classified as a success, no matter how many people didn't buy it.

    This has always been a metrics-driven company. Early on, before PWE, even, we were told that they didn't produce much Klingon content because not enough subscribers were playing Klingons, and not enough Klingon stuff on the C-store was selling. The FACT that the reason so few people were playing Klingons was because the game launched with the Klingon side drastically incomplete didn't enter their equation. They created the disparity, but it was our fault. Because... NUMBERS!

    That has not changed... I doubt it ever will.

    I'm just a messenger. I don't like the message either, but A=A...

    I think they knew very early on that the starting situation for the KDF just wasn't great.
    But the game didn't really take off until it went F2P, and at that point, the game already had a lot more content for the KDF.

    And over the years, they have done a lot to keep the Klingons relevant in the game.
    • One of their first Star Trek alumni (beyond launch) they got for the game was Michael Dorn.
    • They used the introduction of Tier 6 ships to sell a lot of cross-faction bundles that gave you 3 ships for the price of 2.
    • For the Iconian Arc, they ensured that there was plenty of Klingon-related story content. It wasn't some Federation Captain that lead the Delta Alliance, it was a KLingon character.
    • For the Tzenkethi Arc, they again leaned heavily in to the KDF with bringing back Martok and the sword of Khaless and all.
    • They brought back the Hur'q, a species that we only ever heard about via Klingon-related stories in canon content.
    • And now we got a Klingon Civil War that brought Kurn, Martok and Gowron and heavily plays with Klingon mythology. The truth is that this story has basically nothing that really suites Federation or Romulan Captains and does everything to make the KDF interesting. You see its culture, you see the old
    • And now we finally got a Klingon recruitment drive.
    I think things won't get any better for the KDF anymore. If this doesn't boost the KDF and interest in Klingon paid content (like sips), then Cryptic can be fairly certain that it's a losing game and that they really tried everything they could still short of deleting the Federation faction.
    And anyone that still thinks there is a huge untapped KDF fandom out there, or still blames "but at launch KDF sucked!" is just willfully ignoring the facts.

    It could very well be that this legendary bundle isn't good enough (too expensive, ships you don't want, whatever), but there will probably be a few more things in the future, and here are still plenty of KDF ships already in the store that people could pick up now that they made their recruitment character or fell in love with the Klingons again. So the final verdict is still a bit off.
    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 866 Arc User
    edited February 19
    And over the years, they have done a lot to keep the Klingons relevant in the game.
    They really didn't.
    As @sirsitsalot said, as many have said time and again: they created the disparity.
    In you words, you may want to "just willfully ignore the facts", but the facts aren't gonna change: the balance has always been
    skewed toward the Federation - and once again, no one is asking for total equality, just for more consideration.

    As for your list:
    - Michael Dorn was brought to the game because his character was incredibly popular; had it been a Ferengi, they would've done the same;
    - How is getting 3 ships for the price of 2 "keepin the Klingons relevant" is beside me;
    - Kagran may have been in charge of the Delta Alliance, as you call it, but he could just as well have been a cat for all he did compared to all the other characters;
    - Martok was a nice touch, I can give you that;
    - Making the Hur'q, and the Fek'Ihri, just a botched experiment of the Dominion was a incredible joke that spat all over Klingon-lore;
    - The Klingon Civil War it's important to every power in the quadrant, because it can change the politcal landscape completely; and if there's one thing that it sure as hell doesn't do is "make the KDF interesting";
    - The Recruitment is nothing but a timegated drivel with only one really worth it reward for the entire account, and that's the Whitering Barrage available for free.
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    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • mustrumridcully0mustrumridcully0 Member Posts: 12,894 Arc User
    And over the years, they have done a lot to keep the Klingons relevant in the game.
    They really didn't.
    As @sirsitsalot said, as many have said time and again: they created the disparity.
    In you words, you may want to "just willfully ignore the facts", but the facts aren't gonna change: the balance has always been
    skewed toward the Federation - and once again, no one is asking for total equality, just for more consideration.
    Are you sure you want just "more consideration" and not actually equality. Because you always bring up how the KDF wasn't or isn't equal, and when we point to Klingon ships, Klingon content, Klingon artwork, Klingon storylines, the all do not count as more consideration. They just get swept away as nothing.

    What more consideration has the Federation actually gotten by comparison? Do we have any Vulcan or Andorian storylines so far? Do we have any excursions in Tellarite mythology? The only thing you could actually name is that there are more Fed ships than KDF ships. So fracking what, have you looked at the source material?
    As for your list:
    - Michael Dorn was brought to the game because his character was incredibly popular; had it been a Ferengi, they would've done the same;
    - How is getting 3 ships for the price of 2 "keepin the Klingons relevant" is beside me;
    - Kagran may have been in charge of the Delta Alliance, as you call it, but he could just as well have been a cat for all he did compared to all the other characters;
    - Martok was a nice touch, I can give you that;
    - Making the Hur'q, and the Fek'Ihri, just a botched experiment of the Dominion was a incredible joke that spat all over Klingon-lore;
    - The Klingon Civil War it's important to every power in the quadrant, because it can change the politcal landscape completely; and if there's one thing that it sure as hell doesn't do is "make the KDF interesting";
    - The Recruitment is nothing but a timegated drivel with only one really worth it reward for the entire account, and that's the Whitering Barrage available for free.

    Come on, the bundles meant that KDF ships were made available to KDF fans. And the bundles also meant that for people that were still on the edge of whether they should even bother - for the price of 2 ships, they can get something for a KDF and a RR character as well, might finally use this opportunity to get a bundle and make those KDF and RR characters.
    Kagran was part of several of the Iconian pact missions and particularly the Iconian finale, here he was the voice of reason instead of the Klingon-honor-must-smash archetype, giving people the chance to realize that Klingons are just as complex anas Feddies.
    They didn't just make the Hur'q into a "failed experiment" - they made them into a genuine threat that even the Dominion alone couldn't handle. They made them a worthy foe for the KDF. And the Fek'Ihri grounded the Klingon mythology in reality, instead of just some absurd religion that was entirely made up and an advanced civilization should have grown beyond already. It made Klingon experiences and beliefs valid - and it showed them off, in all their glory. And the latter is really the important part. People need some inspiration on why they should make a Klingon.

    Star Trek Online Advancement: You start with lowbie gear, you end with Lobi gear.
  • westx211westx211 Member Posts: 41,019 Arc User
    And over the years, they have done a lot to keep the Klingons relevant in the game.
    They really didn't.
    As @sirsitsalot said, as many have said time and again: they created the disparity.
    In you words, you may want to "just willfully ignore the facts", but the facts aren't gonna change: the balance has always been
    skewed toward the Federation - and once again, no one is asking for total equality, just for more consideration.

    As for your list:
    - Michael Dorn was brought to the game because his character was incredibly popular; had it been a Ferengi, they would've done the same;
    - How is getting 3 ships for the price of 2 "keepin the Klingons relevant" is beside me;
    - Kagran may have been in charge of the Delta Alliance, as you call it, but he could just as well have been a cat for all he did compared to all the other characters;
    - Martok was a nice touch, I can give you that;
    - Making the Hur'q, and the Fek'Ihri, just a botched experiment of the Dominion was a incredible joke that spat all over Klingon-lore;
    - The Klingon Civil War it's important to every power in the quadrant, because it can change the politcal landscape completely; and if there's one thing that it sure as hell doesn't do is "make the KDF interesting";
    - The Recruitment is nothing but a timegated drivel with only one really worth it reward for the entire account, and that's the Whitering Barrage available for free.

    There's great implication that the Fek'Ihri are atleast somewhat real, there's lots of it in the missions where you go to Gre'thor. Like you fight the real ones, but some of the ones plaguing the empire were fake. Still kind of dumb but not as bad.

    I agree with all of your other points though, including the Hur'q to an extent.
    Men are not punished for their sins, but by them.
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    edited February 19
    Are you sure you want just "more consideration" and not actually equality. Because you always bring up how the KDF wasn't or isn't equal, and when we point to Klingon ships, Klingon content, Klingon artwork, Klingon storylines, the all do not count as more consideration. They just get swept away as nothing.

    What more consideration has the Federation actually gotten by comparison? Do we have any Vulcan or Andorian storylines so far? Do we have any excursions in Tellarite mythology? The only thing you could actually name is that there are more Fed ships than KDF ships. So fracking what, have you looked at the source material?
    There is no point in arguing with those kinds of people.

    It doesn't matter what Cryptic does, it will never be enough, because they want to be victimized, so they will warp anything that happens into more fuel for their victimization complex.

    Their answer to everything is pretty much just "so?"
    • Klingons get their own starting experience? So?
    • Klingon NPCs make frequent appearances during the Dyson Sphere arc? So?
    • Klingons get their own mission giver during Delta Rising? So?
    • Klingons lead the Alliance military during the Iconian War? So?
    • Klingons lead the Alliance military during the Tzenkethi conflict? So?
    • The Klingon's ancient enemy is the main opponent during Victory is life? So?
    • The Klingon's super special ancient weapon, the Sword of Kahless, is a major focal point in ViL? So?
    • The Klingons come in to save the day at the end of ViL? So?
    • We get an entire year's worth of Klingon Civil War story, delving into Klingon mythology as well? So?
    • Cryptic revamps all the early Klingon missions, as well as NPCs, targs, Fek'Ihri, ships, character creation options, and uniforms? So?
    • Klingons get factional equivalent ships, that cover the whole range of ship types, in 35 different Zen store/lockbox/promo offers? So?
  • phoeniz1994phoeniz1994 Member Posts: 96 Arc User
    edited February 20
    What i'd love to see is the introduction of a new faction ( or an old one) as villain that keeps the players on their toes.

    I saw Yesterday's Enterprise recently, that episode was gorgeous not only in itself but on the lore behind it with a large scale war that lasts that long...

    I'd be very curious for a new villain that not only would bring new featured episodes but brings on new mechanics, like some sort of "Galactic-Wide Battlezone", like a pumped up Gamma Quadrant BZ, where you need to fight for control of territories the lieks of Betazed, Trill, Vulcan, Andoria ecc.

    More than a demand ( which i do not intend to make), it's a genuine curiosity of mine on how it would work... Borg for isntance could be perfect for a PVE centered system... or any new or old threat we can still explore, like Terrans.
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  • shadowfang240shadowfang240 Member Posts: 35,849 Arc User
    so we can't pick the dai-katana warbird, or whatever it's called​​
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  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,689 Arc User
    Quick clarification, Captains: The reward for the 2021 Meta Event, if you choose a Lock Box or Promo ship, will only include ships released up until 12/31/20. Ships released after that date will not be included.

    Well I'm sure if there's a future Promo ship released that I want this will bug me but this is totally understandable & I appreciate Cryptic addressing this now & clarifying their stance.
    so we can't pick the dai-katana warbird, or whatever it's called​​

    I'm sure it isn't as Romulan but I like your name for it better!
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,964 Arc User
    Quick clarification, Captains: The reward for the 2021 Meta Event, if you choose a Lock Box or Promo ship, will only include ships released up until 12/31/20. Ships released after that date will not be included.

    at least they spear-headed this up front. :) good to get the comms early. well done.
    meh

  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 3,632 Arc User
    Imagine, they say that and in March they announce... the Legendary T6 Nova!... as a Promo ship.
    #TASforSTO
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  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,338 Arc User
    Imagine, they say that and in March they announce... the Legendary T6 Nova!... as a Promo ship.

    Awwwwww,,, That would mean we'd have to do what we say we're willing to do to get the nova: PAY SOME FREAKING MONEY!
    When it comes to MMOs, I wear prescription glasses. Whether or not they are rose-tinted is beside the point.
  • reyan01reyan01 Member Posts: 14,378 Arc User
    Imagine, they say that and in March they announce... the Legendary T6 Nova!... as a Promo ship.

    Awwwwww,,, That would mean we'd have to do what we say we're willing to do to get the nova: PAY SOME FREAKING MONEY!

    Wouldn't happen anyway. I'd say the chances of them doing that with a ship that they claim wouldn't sell are VERY small.


  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 3,632 Arc User
    The list just dropped in-game:
    2021-02-25%2018_02_03-window.png?raw=1

    Noticing something missing?
    Yup, where are the PROMO ships? Those are only lockbox ships. I hope the oversight is the list itself and not the "or promo ship" mention.
    #TASforSTO
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  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,964 Arc User
    The list just dropped in-game:
    2021-02-25%2018_02_03-window.png?raw=1

    Noticing something missing?
    Yup, where are the PROMO ships? Those are only lockbox ships. I hope the oversight is the list itself and not the "or promo ship" mention.

    you made me open the spoiler...and yup. lol.
    meh

  • eladonwarps#6040 eladonwarps Member Posts: 195 Arc User
    From Twitter today:
    https://twitter.com/trekonlinegame/status/1365001784150740993
    A message from Proconsul D'tan: "This morning, members of the Romulan republic (sic) exercised provision 57b of the Republic Defense Charter to transfer their service to the KDF and Dominion. We wish them well, all citizens should have the chance to go where their desires take them." [Profile photo of Proconsul D'tan.]
    Call me "El," she/her only. I love my wife and I don't care who knows it!
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    From Twitter today:
    https://twitter.com/trekonlinegame/status/1365001784150740993
    A message from Proconsul D'tan: "This morning, members of the Romulan republic (sic) exercised provision 57b of the Republic Defense Charter to transfer their service to the KDF and Dominion. We wish them well, all citizens should have the chance to go where their desires take them." [Profile photo of Proconsul D'tan.]

    I don't get it, what is this supposed to even mean ?
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  • joshmauljoshmaul Member Posts: 327 Arc User
    I don't get it, what is this supposed to even mean ?

    Something to do with Romulan duty officers, I think I read somewhere...
    i2G6X0u.jpg
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    joshmaul wrote: »
    I don't get it, what is this supposed to even mean ?

    Something to do with Romulan duty officers, I think I read somewhere...

    Ah ok, would have been nice if the tweet wasn't so ... umm ... Cyptic 😎
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  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 3,632 Arc User
    It's nice, but it doesn't work for assignments for the same reason KDF/Fed Doffs don't work for Fed/KDF assignments: the game recognizes they exist and thus the assignment says you have the right kind of Doff, but you can't assign them because they're the wrong faction.

    The exception is still the civilian ones.
    #TASforSTO
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  • captaincelestialcaptaincelestial Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    A quick note: for the record I agree that they should be posted info here. I just want to be clear about that point, so no one is confused by my following comments.

    That said, this is not some 'social' issue about 'equality'. We all have access to the same internet. We all have the choice to use twitter, or reddit, or not. No one is being denied access to those platforms because of any kind of social injustice. And even if those website are blocked when you are at work...well, you are at work. You can still use them when you are at home.

    So yes, I completely agree the company should be posting info to it's own forums. But no, it's not because of 'equality' or anything like that. I hope that makes sense.

    These are the official forums. The STO subreddit is the official subreddit. The STO social media accounts are the official social media accounts. If they are all official outlets, then inequality applies when one or more of them are given official attention and others are neglected, specially when Cryptic KNOWS that not everyone on the forums uses reddit or social media, and not everyone on reddit and social media uses the forums.

    If this were some third party forum that Cryptic happened to post on at one time and stopped when they got official outlets to use, I would not be taking the position I have taken. But this is one of their official outlets. The closest to home in fact. It's hosted on their own network. It uses the same criteria as logging into the game uses. While I initially held that this should be where news originates and then gets linked to on Reddit or social media, I've shifted a bit to say that the forums should be used in equilibrium with other outlets so no matter where a community member is coming from, the information is available.

    That is the equality I refer to. The forums don't need to be treated with more priority than the other outlets. But they should not be treated with any less of one either. I mean, we're talking about copying and pasting information to jut one more place. We're talking maybe thirty seconds... I don't think it's an unfair thing to ask for.

    For what it's worth - I agree. As you may have noticed, I'm trying to take more time to be on here, lately. The main issue is how much easier it is to respond to things on Reddit or Twitter. I realize that's not a good excuse, however, and I'm genuinely going to try and be on here to answer questions and such more often.

    Please do keep in mind, though, that I wear a million hats and am not anywhere where players congregate as much as I'd like.

    Hmmm, sounds like you're going to have a sore neck wearing all of those hats, Kael. I hope you're not wearing all of them at the same time :blush:
  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,689 Arc User
    It looks nice.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,964 Arc User
    not my liking, but others may like it.

    meh

  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,689 Arc User
    "The versions of these weapons that come with the Voyager J will not be upgradeable, but these weapons will be available elsewhere in the future."

    Why wouldn't Cryptic just make it like other weapon variants & purchasable from the Dilithium Store? If that's not the case. If that is the case why not just say it as so? How far into the future too?
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