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Is the Jupiter Class fun? Is it any good?

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  • leemwatsonleemwatson Member Posts: 4,232 Arc User
    strathkin wrote: »
    Honestly I know the Jupiter won the Contest; still I wish they'd enable one other design! Too bad for Voted Designs that use Players choose, also didn't unlock a DEVs choice alternative; since most the work was done anyways!
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    The problem is just about anything we can do on the Jupiter we can do better on an Aspero. Given that both cost the same amount of real-life money there isn’t much reason to buy a Jupiter.

    ...

    The Jupiter can be made to work but its fair to say its not particularly very good, ... All the 3/3 carriers need “something” extra and the Jupiter is near the bottom of the pack when it comes to 3/3 carriers. Though to be honest I am not sure what that something should be. A secondary deflector would be a mistake, a 3rd hangar bay as much as I would love would be too overpowered. 3/3 carriers needs some sort of pet boosting extra but not to much booting.

    Far as boosting Jupiter's effectiveness:
    I agree a Secondary Deflector be too much, as would a 3rd Hanger Pet; why I suggested possibly expanding Hanger Pet's a Specialist ability. I think a few Carriers (not all) should have specially trained Pilot, with a very limited Specialist ability, that's limited to 1, 2 or 3 Carriers like the Jupiter! Attack Pattern Lambda I would help the Jupiter with Fire-At-Will; if some of it's Pet's periodically had a 4th Skill to periodically choose from within.

    Realize: Caitian, Jem Hadar, and Malem Pilots (Hanger Bays) are one of the few Hanger Bays with a far wider selection of skills to choose from; though they aren't limited to any Carrier. Xindi however are limited to only specific Carriers, so I'd suggest something (above) could be considered for the Jupiter and a limited few others. :)

    Just trying to be constructive, while hoping they might give Jupiter, a second Hull design choice. :'(

    TBH, for a ship it's size, I'm still surprised it didn't get a 4/3 weapon layout. The Fek'Ihri Carriers ALL have that layout.

    I do like the Jupiter, and it's easy to make it viable, even with it's poor manuveurability. It's decent for tanking and control (from afar), even without a sec-deflector.
    "You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,403 Arc User
    strathkin wrote: »
    Honestly I know the Jupiter won the Contest; still I wish they'd enable one other design! Too bad for Voted Designs that use Players choose, also didn't unlock a DEVs choice alternative; since most the work was done anyways!
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    The problem is just about anything we can do on the Jupiter we can do better on an Aspero. Given that both cost the same amount of real-life money there isn’t much reason to buy a Jupiter.

    ...

    The Jupiter can be made to work but its fair to say its not particularly very good, ... All the 3/3 carriers need “something” extra and the Jupiter is near the bottom of the pack when it comes to 3/3 carriers. Though to be honest I am not sure what that something should be. A secondary deflector would be a mistake, a 3rd hangar bay as much as I would love would be too overpowered. 3/3 carriers needs some sort of pet boosting extra but not to much booting.

    Far as boosting Jupiter's effectiveness:
    I agree a Secondary Deflector be too much, as would a 3rd Hanger Pet; why I suggested possibly expanding Hanger Pet's a Specialist ability. I think a few Carriers (not all) should have specially trained Pilot, with a very limited Specialist ability, that's limited to 1, 2 or 3 Carriers like the Jupiter! Attack Pattern Lambda I would help the Jupiter with Fire-At-Will; if some of it's Pet's periodically had a 4th Skill to periodically choose from within.

    Realize: Caitian, Jem Hadar, and Malem Pilots (Hanger Bays) are one of the few Hanger Bays with a far wider selection of skills to choose from; though they aren't limited to any Carrier. Xindi however are limited to only specific Carriers, so I'd suggest something (above) could be considered for the Jupiter and a limited few others. :)

    Just trying to be constructive, while hoping they might give Jupiter, a second Hull design choice. :'(
    That's a good idea you have a set of Bridge officer powers like Pattern Lambda only for pets that are on the so called full carriers. I also like the idea of a Coms Array with pet boosts. Kind of like a Secondary Deflector only for carriers to boost pets. You have have a sci Coms array which is half Sci Secondary Deflector and half pet boost or a full Com array. Just no Full secondary deflector as that takes to much away from sci ships.
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,765 Bug Hunter
    edited February 24
    pottsey5g wrote: »
    That's a good idea you have a set of Bridge officer powers like Pattern Lambda only for pets that are on the so called full carriers. I also like the idea of a Coms Array with pet boosts. Kind of like a Secondary Deflector only for carriers to boost pets...

    Yes, the alternative idea would certain be a Comm Array, yet both would need limits how often either could PROC. Similar to how often some science ships have Sensor Analysis for example. They'd need to be careful to not overdo it either, and would only make it available to a 'very' limited few Carriers!

    "A refit was the installation of updated equipment aboard a starship. It differed from a retrofit in that the vessel's overall structure was changed during the process."
    ╘ Dev's could use a Carrier design choice, to drastically cut down development time; based on their preference!

    A unique idea - to make Jupiter more attractive
    Carrier T6 would be one of the few ships I'd say was worthy of a Retrofit redesign, perhaps sold as a new Ship with it's own Trait, Stations, Abilities; yet extends a Console Set to both, or the other option discussed above.

    A new console set for the Jupiter & it's Retrofit based on earlier voted design choices; could extend a new 1-2m Set bonus equivalent of Communication Array with a few other passives; or could extend a unique Pet for one or both Ships with Specialist Pilot Pattern Lambda I. That's for their Designers to work out though...

    Gives incentive to not only reconsider the New, but for others to reconsider the Old--a true WiN-WiN. But that be up to them to rethink... <3

    @ambassadorkael#6946
    Post edited by strathkin on
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  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,131 Arc User
    edited February 25
    Frankly, I still don't understand how the Jupiter-design won that contest back in the day.

    And I doubt there's ever gonna be a "fix" for its dated layout in terms of equipment-/BOff-slots (legendary temporal or MW Jupiter lol).

    It truly *is* a horrible ship. Yes, it can be okay-ish with the right mindset and gear, but you can't make an Ark Royal perform like a Roosevelt.
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,076 Arc User
    Frankly, I still don't understand how the Jupiter-design won that contest back in the day.

    And I doubt there's ever gonna be a "fix" for its dated layout in terms of equipment-/BOff-slots (legendary temporal or MW Jupiter lol).

    It truly *is* a horrible ship. Yes, it can be okay-ish with the right mindset and gear, but you can't make an Ark Royal perform like a Roosevelt.

    Yep, thats how it is. :)
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  • redeyedravenredeyedraven Member Posts: 1,131 Arc User
    Yep, thats how it is. :)

    The worst part is, I personally had a lot of fun flying certain ships that really lack in the performance-department, thanks to something else about them being really fun. I've enjoyed using Kazon-raiders here and there. Or an Oberth.

    The Jupiter lacks even that quirky fun-factor.
  • nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 750 Arc User
    Ok, I am going to put my flame shield on.. because here it comes.

    Now, given recent.. critiques on this board, I strangely have to say ahead of time that this is my personal opinion.. that being said..

    The Jupiter is.. awful. It's terrible, it's absolutely one of the worst ships in the game.

    My reasons..

    As a tactical carrier, it's non existant. The highest tactical power it's ultra weak bridge officer seating allows for is Lt. Level which means on a beam build, FAW II is the best you can do. FAW II comes with a steep accuraccy penalty so at best you're going to have to mitigate this by using a console slot for some accuracy, something like Hostile Acquisition, or the more expensive Weapon Sensor Enhancer. This will always limit what you can do in an energy weapon build.

    So I hear you.. well why not do a Science Build instead since it's a 'Science Carrier?' So glad you asked!

    As a Science Vessel, it has no Secondary Deflector which is a huge kick in the stones for Science and it lacks things like Sensor Analysis that you usually want on a Science Heavy ship. You can stack Science Powers sure, but if that's the route you are going, any ship that's actually dedicated to Science is going to be infinitely better.

    Lastly, lets cover those pets.. The Calisto's.. oh boy.

    The worst pets in the game as far as performance and AI are The Cardassian Yukawa Frigates, they are the equivalent of being AFK. These Frigates are the only thing keeping the Calisto's from being the worst hangar pets available. The AI is completely broken, and when they do respond, they don't have the turn rate to keep their Quad Cannons on target so they generally end up flying around like they're completely lost. Simply put.. they're terrible.

    The final nail in the coffin comes with the release of the Caitian Aspero Support Carrier that is basically just what the Jupiter should have been. Better Bridge Officer layout, more versatile, excellent pets.. just all around.. better.

    Before you ask, yes.. I do own the Jupiter. I got it when it first came out because I liked the idea of the Calisto Escorts as pets. It's hands down the worst buy I have ever made in Star Trek Online and one I would desperately want to get back. If I could refund any purchase I have ever made.. the horrendous Jupiter trash barge would be that purchase.

    Jupiter fans will now light me up.. I'm ready. I can't in good faith ever tell someone to buy this ship.


    *Disclaimer: My opinion is of the ship, not of the people that like it. Many people use the Jupiter, those people aren't 'bad' the opinions expressed above are about the Jupiter Class Carrier only and not the people that enjoy it.

    you forgot to say it turns like a brachiosaur wearing roller skates on ice covered with marbles
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  • nixie50nixie50 Member Posts: 750 Arc User
    mneme0 wrote: »
    Don't forget that the Jupiter flies through the air in much the same way that bricks don't.

    Scientists said Bumblebees cannot fly based on their design. The US military said, oh yeah? we will make the F-4 jet Starfleet said oh YEAH? We will build the Jupiter. I bought it. opened and flew it on one toon, and did not even bother to drydock it it, along with the Atrox, were dismissed never to be seen again.
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  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    nixie50 wrote: »
    Scientists said Bumblebees cannot fly based on their design.

    No they didn't.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
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  • feiqafeiqa Member Posts: 2,407 Arc User
    The first answers here lead me to answer this myself. So first some pedigree.
    I have used the Atrox and the Fleet Atrox and was one clamoring for a proper Star Fleet carrier. And we got the Jupiter. I kept my word and purchased her.

    That said she is fine. I do not mean that in the slang of beauty or grace. But that she is above adequate. The Jupiter is a big heavy boat. She has seating that is less efficient than the Atrox in my opinion. But I used the kitty carrier as a big science vessel before there were secondary shields. The seating did the job with allowing me to spam gravity wells when they held things better.

    The trick of the Atrox and the Jupiter is if you are trying to win with your weapons you are doing it wrong. The fighters you can launch can go further than your weapon ranges and engage enemies without putting your ship at risk at all. New fighter squadrons are better than the old fighter system by light years. If you can get the Disco Connie. Her fighter pets unlocked for you are great. Drop them into a Jupiter to up the piranha effect. Build your captain by taking the hangar buffs. Look into traits for your pets as well.

    The ship can do well. Before AoY came out my captain there was my main and worked on TFO's in carriers. And did well enough.

    If being a carrier captain interests you. Get a carrier. You want a line ship get a cruiser.

    But fly what makes you happy.

    Originally Posted by pwlaughingtrendy
    Network engineers are not ship designers.
    Nor should they be. Their ships would look weird.
  • pottsey5gpottsey5g Member Posts: 3,403 Arc User
    edited February 26
    artan42 wrote: »
    nixie50 wrote: »
    Scientists said Bumblebees cannot fly based on their design.

    No they didn't.
    Yes they did. I remember that from when I was a child and how years later with the combination of high-speed digital photography and a robotic model's of a bee wing, researchers figured out the flight mechanisms of honeybees. How Bee's could fly was a bit of a mystery with many saying it shouldn't be possibly.

    It was a big thing back in the day and when how they could fly was figured out it was major news at the time.
  • revanindustriesrevanindustries Member Posts: 505 Arc User
    > @pottsey5g said:
    > Yes they did. I remember that from when I was a child and how years later with the combination of high-speed digital photography and a robotic model's of a bee wing, researchers figured out the flight mechanisms of honeybees. How Bee's could fly was a bit of a mystery with many saying it shouldn't be possibly.
    >
    > It was a big thing back in the day and when how they could fly was figured out it was major news at the time.

    Not quite correct. A bumblebee should not fly according to standard aerodynamic models that aerospace engineers use for full-scale. However, bumblebees actually do follow the Square-Cube Law just fine.
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,104 Arc User
    jeez guys she was making a joke... no need to go toe to toe LTS
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  • livinlifejb90#4082 livinlifejb90 Member Posts: 83 Arc User
    it really depends on how you define fun to yourself. If you want pure usefulness, the Jupiter is not your friend. I personally like it. One, because I just like carriers period. The Jupiter is "fun" for me because well, I use a lot of imagination while playing it. In my mind my Jupiter is a generational colony ship. Which why its not overloaded with weapons. I give it a backstory, and suddenly a rather useless ship becomes fun, just in a different way. I also just really like the look of it, even though I know i'm in the minority there.

    Basically it all comes down to why you want a ship. To be useful or just because you like it.
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  • evilspokevilspok Member Posts: 41 Arc User
    it really depends on how you define fun to yourself. If you want pure usefulness, the Jupiter is not your friend. I personally like it. One, because I just like carriers period. The Jupiter is "fun" for me because well, I use a lot of imagination while playing it. In my mind my Jupiter is a generational colony ship. Which why its not overloaded with weapons. I give it a backstory, and suddenly a rather useless ship becomes fun, just in a different way. I also just really like the look of it, even though I know i'm in the minority there.

    Basically it all comes down to why you want a ship. To be useful or just because you like it.

    Not only that but the Jupiter is still perfectly "useful", if you're goal is to be super optimized and blow up the galaxy at the click of a button, no the Jupiter isn't for you.
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,765 Bug Hunter
    edited February 28
    artan42 wrote: »
    nixie50 wrote: »
    Scientists said Bumblebees cannot fly based on their design.

    No they didn't.

    I think she was referencing this:
    "The origin of the statement is lost in the mists of time, but one version says that it was made by French entomologist Antoine MagnanWikipedia in 1934, based on calculations by his assistant, an engineer.[1] Other versions suggest that the bumblebee could not fly according to the principles of fixed-wing aerodynamics; that is to say, it must flap its wings. In some versions said calculations were made specifically to show that they cannot be applied to insects, and scientists must figure out the proper ones. In fact, bumblebees simply flap harder than other insects, increasing the amplitude of their wing strokes to achieve more lift, and use a figure-of-eight wing motion to create low-pressure vortices to pull them up."

    Taken from:
    https://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Bumblebee_argument

    "Antoine Magnan (13 June 1881 – 5 March 1938)[1] was a French zoologist and aeronautical engineer who studied the flight of insects and birds for possible lessons to apply to powered flight. He is best known for a remark in his 1934 book Le Vol des Insectes ("Insect Flight") that insect flight was impossible."

    Taken from Wikipedia - which shows a picture of the impossible flying Bumblebee. ;)
    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Antoine_Magnan

    But enough of that stuff.... ...back to the Jupiter Retrofit!
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  • duasynduasyn Member Posts: 458 Arc User
    The Jupiter is.. awful. It's terrible, it's absolutely one of the worst ships in the game.

    I'd not go so far as aweful; I'd go lackluster. It's only claim to fame is that the Fed side had NO carriers, so when it came out people who wanted a carrier were all over it. As with most in this game, newer is better. So unless you just love the looks, I'd say pass. Last I checked the frigate hangers were garbage. So not like you're getting OP pets either.
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