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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    Yep, that's true. Disagreeing with 2+2 = 4 isn't an opinion, it's just wrong. But disagreeing on what the all encompassing motivation is behind a system design is completely opinion.
    No it isn't, especially if the people who made the system in question have talked about it.

    Sorry, what is the quote you are referring to?

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    Guys keep it civil.

    While I share the opinion of event fatigue and think they've had way too many back to back events, it's just that, an opinion. Nothing more nothing less. Some folks do legitimately feel event fatigue, others don't. There is no right or wrong answer on this. It's an objective fact that you do not have to participate in the events. With that in mind one can only speak to their own event fatigue or lack of. As far as to whether they design stuff to cause event fatigue, that's purely an opinion folks have in the positive or negative until they actually give a statement one way or another (they won't.)
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    Guys keep it civil.

    While I share the opinion of event fatigue and think they've had way too many back to back events, it's just that, an opinion. Nothing more nothing less. Some folks do legitimately feel event fatigue, others don't. There is no right or wrong answer on this. It's an objective fact that you do not have to participate in the events. With that in mind one can only speak to their own event fatigue or lack of. As far as to whether they design stuff to cause event fatigue, that's purely an opinion folks have in the positive or negative until they actually give a statement one way or another (they won't.)

    Thanks for the reply! So that settles that. You are not able to call your opinion a "fact" @somtaawkhar. Sorry :)

    Also, please follow darkbladejk 's post and keep it civil, so no more personal insults.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    Sorry, what is the quote you are referring to?
    Quote of what?

    Of them stating that 'event fatigue' and any resulting monetization plays no part in their event planning. Feel free to post that quote if you know of one.

    Contrary to what you might believe, pointing out that you did something isn't an insult. It's just pointing something out.

    I remembered the wrong mod, sorry again. But please stop with the personal insults and be civil like dark said.


    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,950 Arc User
    70 out of 105 days sounds like a piece of cake yet somehow it isn't for at least some people... hence the term event fatigue.

    Perhaps it's the amount of time in combination with the other events that should be used for an actual number?

    One suggestion from a friend was to change the ratio so that available days were increased so as to not represent the majority of the time.

    This likely wouldn't be done as it avoids event fatigue by design.

    I'm amazed at how much more fun the game is when I log in when I want to versus logging in to avoid fomo.

    Will see how things go this year but for the first time will be looking at buyout costs for the entire 2021 Event Campaign on a cost per month basis.

    The price of freedom, being able to take a clean break at times, to avoid having to look at a computer screen on a beautiful summer evening, and to avoid the fear of missing out.

    I put a pretty high price on my time as it's a limited commodity that by nature becomes more limited every day.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 3,698 Community Moderator
    Guys drop it already
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    Why would they have? It's such an inane conspiracy theory to begin with.

    There is nothing insane about there being multiple legitimate business goals behind a system. Like I said above, I think the constant events are for all of the following reasons:

    A: to keep up daily login metrics.

    B: to give people something to do.

    C: an additional way to monetize the game for people who either don't want to spend the time, or are having trouble keeping up.

    None of those items are crazy conspiracy talk; they are all completely legitimate business goals.

    Not liking that people point out your actions doesn't make it an insult, nor is it not being civil.

    Apparently you don't want to keep is civil like @darkbladejk said. Sorry to see that.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    Guys drop it already

    Sorry, I didn't see your post before my last reply.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 2,666 Bug Hunter
    Do you guys realize some of us need a rest between events, back to back to back is quite destructive to some of us and we require a break that we are not going to get! Thanks for nothing!!!!!!

    I think if you need a break, take one... ...yet don't get upset, at those who who enjoy it.

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  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    There is nothing insane about there being multiple legitimate business goals behind a system.
    No one said there was, I even listed several myself. I also said inane, not insane. Stop trying to straw man what I said.

    And again, there is a difference between monetizing the game by giving players the option to buy out if they don't want to do the event, and intentionally overdoing events to create event fatigue so that people buyout events, as you originally stated. Stop trying to move goalposts.
    Apparently you don't want to keep is civil like @darkbladejk said. Sorry to see that.
    I've been trying to keep it civil. You're the one throwing straw mans everywhere, and arguing that anyone that disagrees with you is trying to push opinion as fact, and then running off to the mods. The definition of uncivil behavior.

    "I've been trying to keep it civil."

    paired with your:
    Also, FYI, @baddmoonrizin recently said that you are not allowed to claim that your opinion is fact. So you are going to have to stop that.
    >recently
    >hasn't been on in literally a year.
    I'll add liar to the list also.

    Also, just because you disagree with something doesn't make it someone's opinion.

    "I'll add liar to the list also."

    Making accusations & name calling isn't exactly civil, one might say hypocritical. I even thought I "flagged" it since it was more flaming/trolling than adding merit to the discussion, but maybe a pro-Cryptic stance gets more latitude in censoring. I did report it by my screen-shot but I guess darkbladejk allowed it.

    I believe in "event fatigue" probably suffer a bit of it myself, at least feel I do, but acknowledge not everyone might. I'm looking forward to the events just not looking forward to the grinding which will hopefully be off-set by the rewards. Basic pros & cons just like most other things.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,950 Arc User
    There is no event fatigue, much less by design, beyond the one you make for yourself since doing the events isn't required to stay current in the game.
    This is an interesting take on things.

    First of all it's my personal view that it is by design due to the amount of all event time™ being in the majority. I'd love to be proven wrong about the AET.

    Also I can't agree that just because events aren't required to stay current in the game that event fatigue doesn't exist. This is strange logic to me.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    Also I can't agree that just because events aren't required to stay current in the game that event fatigue doesn't exist. This is strange logic to me.
    I don't see how its strange.

    The claim that you have event fatigue because events are offered all the time is like saying you have omega farming fatigue because you can sit there and farm omega molecules all day while the event is active, and so you did just that, and are now saying its the developer's fault you have said fatigue. Well, no. Just because its available 24/7 while the event is running doesn't mean you have to sit there and do it 24/7. Its there so people can get on, and do it, when they have the time to. And, if they so chose, they can sit there and do it. But no one is making you do it, and an fatigue you get is solely your own fault. As I originally said.

    If you want to take the argument to its logical end, claiming event fatigue because events are going on all the time is like claiming you having fatigue of playing the game, because they constantly keep the servers on(minus patches and unforeseen downtime). So you sat there and played it for literally 6 weeks straight without stopping, and are now blaming the devs for not turning off the servers to make you stop playing.

    If you want to use a non-game example. Claiming event fatigue is akin to claiming flying fatigue because you can earn frequent flier rewards, so you chose to spend a year of you life doing nothing but flying planes to rack up points.

    Its a completely nonsense argument, that eschews any semblance of personal responsibility, to try to claim someone needs to sit there and stop you from doing something, when you are an adult, and should be taking care of yourself. Especially when you factor in the conspiracy that Cryptic is offering constant events to force fatigue on people, so they use the buyout option instead, as some posters have claimed.

    Yeah, you keep missing the point. There are a lot of things people do in life that they don't actually enjoy doing, but they are doing it for some "reward". A lot of folks don't actually enjoy their job, but they do it for the paycheck.

    Granted, we are supposed to be playing this game to have fun, right? But playing the same mission every day for a month just isn't fun to a lot of people. Yet, they do it because they want the reward for the event, not because they enjoy the event itself.

    Every time an event ends I feel a sense of "relief" that I no longer need to play the event task and can finally just play whatever content I actually enjoy, like replaying a story arc in the mission journal or something. And when another event starts up, it's a feeling of "well, here we go again" for another few weeks until that's finally over.

    Yes, it's something we choose to do because we want the event reward, not because we actually enjoying replaying a TFO a couple dozen times. It's not hard to understand. Well, it shouldn't be.

    But hey, if you don't feel the event fatigue, that's fine. There's nothing wrong with that at all. But that doesn't make all of the people that do feel it wrong. That is the part you don't seem to be able to come to grips with.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    Here is the thing Som: it doesn't matter whether you disagree. The 'event fatigue' thing is something a lot of people feel, and that's fine. Whether you think it's a valid feeling or not is completely irrelevant, and no amount of words you post are ever going to change that.

    You are just going to have to accept what @darkbladejk said earlier:

    "There is no right or wrong answer on this."

    That's really all there is to it.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    Most of the event requirements have been quick and less of a grind than doing episodes over and over to assemble sets or doing a bunch of TFOs or patrols for marks so there is a bright side to all the events. I kind of teeter between fatigue and renewed interest because of the variety and whether the requirements are tedious or not (for instance, the Mars FTFO was so long and grindy that the featured episode was less hassle iirc).

    The trend to recycle old TFOs for events may change that if it happens too often though.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    > I am aware

    Great :)

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 2,950 Arc User
    protoneous wrote: »
    Also I can't agree that just because events aren't required to stay current in the game that event fatigue doesn't exist. This is strange logic to me.
    I don't see how its strange.

    The claim that you have event fatigue because events are offered all the time is like saying you have omega farming fatigue because you can sit there and farm omega molecules all day while the event is active, and so you did just that, and are now saying its the developer's fault you have said fatigue. Well, no. Just because its available 24/7 while the event is running doesn't mean you have to sit there and do it 24/7. Its there so people can get on, and do it, when they have the time to. And, if they so chose, they can sit there and do it all day. But no one is making you do it, and any fatigue you get is solely your own fault. As I originally said.

    If you want to take the argument to its logical end, claiming event fatigue because events are going on all the time is like claiming you having fatigue of playing the game, because they constantly keep the servers on(minus patches and unforeseen downtime). So you sat there and played it for literally 6 weeks straight without stopping, and are now blaming the devs for not turning off the servers to make you stop playing.

    If you want to use a non-game example. Claiming event fatigue is akin to claiming flying fatigue because you can earn frequent flier rewards, so you chose to spend a year of you life doing nothing but flying planes to rack up points.

    Its a completely nonsense argument, that eschews any semblance of personal responsibility, to try to claim someone needs to sit there and stop you from doing something, when you are an adult, and should be taking care of yourself. Its beyond silly. Especially when you factor in the conspiracy that Cryptic is offering constant events to force fatigue on people, so they use the buyout option instead, as some posters have claimed.

    Any fatigue you have is of your own creation, and there is no grand conspiracy to create fatigue to make you spend money on buyouts.
    Actually I haven't made any claims nor am I arguing. I just said I can't agree with your logic and find it strange.

    I did offer my personal view on the amount of All Event Time™ however you failed to quote this in your response.

    You also seem to have left out any reference to what you previously said regarding staying current in the game. This subtle moving of goalposts combined with including me in somewhat long winded and dramatically overblown examples makes conversation difficult at best.

    You use the term conspiracy yet again at the end of your post. I would have to strongly disagree. There is not any conspiracy.
  • jagdtier44jagdtier44 Member Posts: 376 Arc User
    You only need 70 days out of 105 over the 5 events.

    You can skip one event entirely and still have 14 spare days.

    You can skip one week in each event. That spaces out the events more since you could do the first two weeks of one event then the last two weeks of another.

    I understand event fatigue, but unless you volunteer for grinding extra dil by playing extra days the gap between events is reasonable.

    70 out of 105 days, optimistically 3 hours PER DAY to do 6-7 alts sure, if you are single/no job/no kids

    All the events in the past.. years have been account based, you can't progress them beyond the 1 completion a day. So where are you getting the need to run this over 6-7 alts? you login, you play breach which is like.. 10 minutes and your done. not three hours
  • qultuqqultuq Member Posts: 988 Arc User
    > @somtaawkhar said:
    >
    > What you just said amounts to claiming "you can't be wrong what the meaning of a book is" Yes you can. Especially in instances where the author themselves have said what the meaning of the book is.

    Intent is not equal to results. If I say I am making a pizza and use apples, sugar, cinnamon, and butter—anyone who eats my pizza would be justified to assume I made a pie.

    Even an author or writer or game designer’s stayed intent does not mean that their work will or should be interpreted solely based on that statement.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    For the record, I think the goal of the constant events is a combination of all of the following:

    A: to keep up daily login metrics.

    B: to give people something to do.

    C: an additional way to monetize the game for people who either don't want to spend the time, or are having trouble keeping up.

    Of course, that view is also just an opinion.

    Most likely.

    But why would they need to keep up daily login metrics? What does it matter to Cryptic whether someone spends like 15 minutes each day in the game in a certain week, or if that person 'saves' that time throughout the week and then spends 7 times that daily amount to catch up later on Sunday for example?

    The amount of activity for the event wouldn't be lower.

    Sure, people might spend more time doing other things if they log on on a daily basis. But if you need to perform such tricks to keep people glued to their screens, what does it say about the game?

    As for giving people something to do: events would still satisfy that condition if they gave players more control over when they want to complete the event. Those who want something to do, can still do it on a daily basis. Those who don't want the game to be their day job, can ignore the event when they're not in the mood to play and then do it later.


    Sure, it's true that they might lose some money as it would made the buyout option redundant for at least some people. Only for some though. Players have always bought event ships on the first day for example. There'd still be players who use the buyout option.

    Besides, if removing the daily requirement of events increased player satisfaction, it could still be an improvement. Players who leave because of event fatigue aren't going to bring in much money either.
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • fleetcaptain5#1134 fleetcaptain5 Member Posts: 4,754 Arc User
    To be clear, when I said:
    Sure, people might spend more time doing other things if they log on on a daily basis. But if you need to perform such tricks to keep people glued to their screens, what does it say about the game?

    I didn't mean to imply that events are needed to keep the game interesting.

    But apparently this is what people at Cryptic are thinking.

    I know that I would still regularly log on to just play TFO's and try out new builds etc - even if I didn't feel compelled to log on EVERY day. My overall activity in the game would probably not even be that much lower if I could choose when to complete events and how often I did it every day. But it would certainly make me more happy if I had that bit of freedom.


    (And, if I'm venturing off topic too much here, apologies for that. I'll create a separate thread if necessary.)
    [4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother

    [3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,774 Arc User
    I might just do it to get the Lobi crystals they're one of the few currencies I don't have, and I would like to get these new PIC Romulan uniforms for my Alt, my Main and Alt usually do the same arcs simultaneously.
  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    I wonder if the amount of 1500 was chosen since, with no sale, a T6 Lobi ship is 900 then a space console set of (3) would be 600 Lobi?
  • theanothernametheanothername Member Posts: 1,503 Arc User
    All that and no account unlock... I think I'll pass.

    Well, I don't think it will be as a popular option as 1 & 2 but that Option 3 does reward (2) T6 Ship Coupons so therefore that would unlock 2 T6 ships for the whole account.

    Was referring to the rare option 1 ship. I could imagine some of these but I would have yet to create a character for that ship and since I'm currently not in the mood to cook up another char concept its all pretty worthless to me since the chars I do have are for the most part quite happy with their respective hero ship.
  • lordmalak1lordmalak1 Member Posts: 4,681 Arc User
    dirlettia wrote: »
    Details up for the first of the years events to earn those freebie Tier 6 ships, Lockbox ships or Lobi and I am a little confused if they mean what they infer. https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11484513?fbclid=IwAR0PPmF5JBIMsdaWSH1FU2Qr18X942OLe5509mGtlGJtnC-PRlIT6DMICXs
    Option 1:

    Any Infinity Promo or Infinity Lock Box T6 Ship
    This ship will be a per character unlock.

    As it says per character does this mean all of our characters can each claim a different lockbox ship?

    The link now says account unlock
    Any Infinity Promo or Infinity Lock Box T6 Ship
    This ship will be a once per account unlock, for a single ship only.

    ...yet some players still construe this to mean "1 toon on an account' unlock.
    facepalm
    KBF Lord MalaK
    Awoken Dead
    giphy.gif

    Now shaddup about the queues, it's a BUG
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