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more crafting options?

So I was looking at the crafting systems of other games etc when a though came to mind.

IF an extra component/material was used, why not let us craft non standard items?

Example: Undine rep, Bio resonance focusing lenses (or some other named item) is needed to craft a Bio beam weapon of X type, not just the beam banks but also twin beams or even Omni.

I think adding some kind of a system like that would help to increase the diversity of the weapon loadouts, not just for reputation based weapons but even Retro phasers etc.

This could also be done with ground based weapons too.
Example: Borg shield modulation scanner would allow you to create anti borg weapons of different types (pistol, rifle etc) and of different energy types.

This is a rough idea and would need to be worked out more, but generally speaking, I think this would be good.
Thoughts?

Comments

  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    Assuming of course that an updated system didn't just break the item being used could just be a rep token.

    But if they actually did any updating to the crafting system people would suddenly have a reason to use the thousands of crafting mats.
  • garaffegaraffe Member Posts: 893 Arc User
    I support any and all additions to crafting. The only reason to do crafting now is to get a few traits.
  • sirsitsalotsirsitsalot Member Posts: 2,338 Arc User
    This is one of the things that ties into my dream of an industrialization gameplay loop. Something that gives players real reasons to obtain and use a wide variety of resources for the purpose of producing things as small as personal gear pieces all the way up to large installations that serve a purpose when deployed for specific reasons.

    But that would be too much like work, so it won't happen.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 53,036 Community Moderator
    As much as I would like to see new craftable items... from a logical, Devil's Advocate standpoint Rep variants, or even lockbox variants, being made craftable would then draw away from those variants. Why bother working the reps if you can just craft them? Why bother opening lockboxes if you can just craft them?

    For the Rep variants, you actually have to either spend Dilithium in the associated Rep Store or work the rep with the hourly boxes to get them. Which means actually playing associated content for the most part. Unless you're going to introduce another form of the old "unreplicatable materials" item that you have to get from the rep store for the rep variant craftables, its going to turn into "Spam Infected until resources acquired" then craft whatever item you want.

    And for the lockbox variants... most of their value comes from being lockbox variants. The only variants I can see being more likely as craftable are the old hybrid weapons like Polarized Disruptor and Phased Tetryon. However they aren't as popular because they sacrifice a mod for a proc, and thus in terms of damage output, are inferior to even standard variants. Most of them look cool, and I liked the old Phased Tetryon cyan beams, but compared to standard Tetryon, the DPS output is unfortunately inferior because of that missing mod. A purple Phased Tetryon is pretty much the equivelent of a blue standard.
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    edited February 23
    rattler2 wrote: »
    As much as I would like to see new craftable items... from a logical, Devil's Advocate standpoint Rep variants, or even lockbox variants, being made craftable would then draw away from those variants. Why bother working the reps if you can just craft them? Why bother opening lockboxes if you can just craft them?
    Pretty much.

    Every game I can think of limits how far you can go with crafting because, if you take crafting to its logical end, it ruins any sort of value of rewards from anywhere else, since you can just make them yourself. Unless you make crafting them so arduous, convoluted, and costly, that players simply avoid it... but at that point why bother making them craftable at all?
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    As much as I would like to see new craftable items... from a logical, Devil's Advocate standpoint Rep variants, or even lockbox variants, being made craftable would then draw away from those variants. Why bother working the reps if you can just craft them? Why bother opening lockboxes if you can just craft them?
    Pretty much.

    Every game I can think of limits how far you can go with crafting because, if you take crafting to its logical end, it ruins any sort of value of rewards from anywhere else, since you can just make them yourself. Unless you make crafting them so arduous, convoluted, and costly, that players simply avoid it... but at that point why bother making them craftable at all?

    Most other games also limit the gear you can get. If you want dungeon gear, you go do dungeons. If you want raid gear, you go do raids. And hope they drop. If you want pvp gear, you go pvp. So being able to craft gear to to cover those gaps is the balance. STO just says, "Here's some marks. Go get the same gear as everyone else." Then stuff variants in lockboxes or promo boxes, to make you chase after them through the cash shop. So other games have that balance. The word balance hasn't been in STO's dictionary since Delta Rising.
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    edited February 23
    trennan wrote: »
    Most other games also limit the gear you can get. If you want dungeon gear, you go do dungeons. If you want raid gear, you go do raids. And hope they drop.
    And MMOs have generally moved away from this in the last 5+ years because of how much people dislike such systems. Instead they have embraced something closer to STO's design of placing what was raid/dungeon drops into associated reputation like systems, like what happened to the Borg TFO items.

    Most people don't like being forced to play the same content a 100+ times for the .00001% drop chance raid/dungeon gear. That just makes them feel like they made no progress to their goal every time they run it and get nothing. Switching over to a mark/reputation like system allows players to always get marks, and thus, always make progress, every time they play the associated content. And generally leads to happier players.

    That also isn't "balance", thats just forcing players to grind out dungeons and raids a million times to get anywhere.
  • trennantrennan Member Posts: 2,839 Arc User
    trennan wrote: »
    Most other games also limit the gear you can get. If you want dungeon gear, you go do dungeons. If you want raid gear, you go do raids. And hope they drop.
    And MMOs have generally moved away from this in the last 5+ years because of how much people dislike such systems. Instead they have embraced something closer to STO's design of placing what was raid/dungeon drops into associated reputation like systems, like what happened to the Borg TFO items.

    Most that I know added exterior gear like that. WoW comes to mind there, and between Cataclysm and Legion where it made the acquisition of gear and game easier, it cost them half their subscriptions. But there the best items still come from dungeons and raids.

    Just like SWTOR still has the generic vendors versus dropped gear.

    Even BDO does the best gear is dropped off world bosses. Granted they also have a system to where you can make any other piece of gear almost as good.

    STO has reputations and cash shop. There's no balancer between them. Nor is there any gear that drops. Sure, there some gear you can get from episodes. But again, that's a reward and something everyone can get. There's no dropped items, which means other than rep marks, there's no reason to bother with the TFOs.

    Granted we can also also admit that the pvp in STO is about as balanced as a drunkard on a one-legged stool. Well we can say the same thing about STO as it is. But then it is also owned by Pilfered Wallet Entertainment, as long as it makes money, they don't care how buggy or unbalanced it is. Until it stops making them money and then they just shut it down.
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  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,765 Bug Hunter
    edited February 23
    I remember them saying somewhere, perhaps it was a Ten Forward stream at one point several 4-8 months ago... ??

    I thought I recalled, "a DEV was looking or considering some changes, revisions, or updates to Crafting later in the New Year" ...though the details were extremely limited.

    o:)
    Post edited by strathkin on
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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,034 Arc User
    edited February 23
    trennan wrote: »
    Most that I know added exterior gear like that. WoW comes to mind there, and between Cataclysm and Legion where it made the acquisition of gear and game easier, it cost them half their subscriptions. But there the best items still come from dungeons and raids.
    WoW lost half its subs because the game was over bloated, and Blizzard wasn't making good content in general. Not because gear acquisition was made easier.
    STO has reputations and cash shop. There's no balancer between them. Nor is there any gear that drops. Sure, there some gear you can get from episodes. But again, that's a reward and something everyone can get. There's no dropped items, which means other than rep marks, there's no reason to bother with the TFOs.
    Besides dilthium, and the fact that events are tied to TFOs, and event reward their own items, dilthium, and contribute to meta event prizes as well.

    And, personally, I would rather have no reason to play content, beyond just wanting to, then having the reason to play content be becuase it has a .00001% drop rate chance for an item I don't really need.

    Personally, I think Guild Wars 2 has the best system
    • There have been zero level cap increases in the 8+ years its been around
    • All achievements are account wide
    • All masteries(its version of reputation systems) are account wide
    • Because there has been no level cap increase, the highest gear stats haven't changed
    • New expansions just add new combinations of gear stats
    • All weapon and armor skin unlocks are account wide, as are all minipets(its non-cobmat pets)
    • Pretty much every currency in the game, gold, karma, dungeon/raid tokens, etc. etc. is account wide
    • The highest level gear in the game is legendary, but legendary gear has the same stats as whatever is the next down rank of that gear type. Legendary gear(which requires doing raids) only has more flashy visuals
    • Ascended gear, the next gear rank down, can be crafted, or is handed out via achievements, or the laurel store, and the game gives you laurels every few days just for logging in
    You really don't get jack from drops, and even in the cases you do get an ascended item drop, it lets you pick from the same stat selection menu as other ascended weapons you can get from crafting and elsewhere. Its really just for skin unlocks. Even its dungeons and raids use token systems similar to STO's mark system. Drops are vendor trash, or breaking down into crafting materials.
    Granted we can also also admit that the pvp in STO is about as balanced as a drunkard on a one-legged stool. Well we can say the same thing about STO as it is. But then it is also owned by Pilfered Wallet Entertainment, as long as it makes money, they don't care how buggy or unbalanced it is. Until it stops making them money and then they just shut it down.
    I would say that about STO PVP, but not really the rest of the game. I actually experiance less bugs in STO then I do in other MMOs I play, like Guild Wars 2. The worst bug I see in STO is have the rare skill misfire.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    As much as I would like to see new craftable items... from a logical, Devil's Advocate standpoint Rep variants, or even lockbox variants, being made craftable would then draw away from those variants.

    They could use it to fill in some of the missing gaps though, such as normal or set omnis for weapon types that don't have them, normal arrays for weapon types that are currently unique equip, Advanced Phaser Dual Beam Banks and Omnis, etc. They could also make crafting these items require materials that can only be obtained by salvaging existing items of that type.
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  • spy8446spy8446 Member Posts: 515 Arc User
    As I said, it was a rough idea.
    I dont think lockboxes items would be craft able unless like what @evilmark444 said about salvaging said item to get the needed parts to craft it.

    IF I remember correctly, there are no duel beams for most rep space weapons, using a system like this could allow a player that wants/needs said weapon of X type to have it.

    It would give more diversity to load outs AND like some of you have said, give you a reason to craft more even if its just to sell the item on the exchange.

    Weapons like the Retro Phasers, Plasma Disruptor hybrid, piercing tetryon and anything else, being able to craft your own version of said weapon, maybe also needs the fleet R&D special ...... person.

    granted this may not be for everyone, but I think that "if done right" it would be very useful to many players.
    just my thoughts.

  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    there are a few things that could be added to the crafting. the TOS phaser rifle from one of the episodes.. it's not a sniper, it's more of compression rifle second attack, but it's got a longer than normal range.

    I would LOVE to unlock it on the character but then be able to craft it instead of grinding the mission 4 more times (assuming I wanted 5 of them) another would nbe rep gear. you unlock it in the rep then you can craft it.

    I'm even good with the quality RNG, or even a total fail where you lose the mats, because I DO like the KDF grenade launchers on all the team, and the rep costs for them are ridiculous compared to the other reps
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  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    spy8446 wrote: »
    maybe also needs the fleet R&D special ...... person.

    and TRIBBLE the players who do not want to join a fleet... yeah, no thanks I'd rather see zero changes that put something else behind a fleet wall

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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    edited February 24
    the TOS phaser rifle from one of the episodes.. it's not a sniper, it's more of compression rifle second attack, but it's got a longer than normal range.

    I would LOVE to unlock it on the character but then be able to craft it instead of grinding the mission 4 more times (assuming I wanted 5 of them) another would nbe rep gear. you unlock it in the rep then you can craft it.

    You can find some on the exchange, search for "Type 3" and you'll find it, and the remote control looking TOS phaser can be found by searching for "Type 1", I think they're a random drop from TOS era ground enemies or something. You can find the pistols on the exchange too (Type 2), but for some reason they are black and white like the C-Store version instead of the canon appearance that the mission version uses.

    There are also fleet versions at the K13 holding, not sure if the pistols have the correct appearance or not.
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  • annemarie30annemarie30 Member Posts: 1,997 Arc User
    the type 3s on the exchange are the snipers not the nadions
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  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 5,837 Arc User
    the type 3s on the exchange are the snipers not the nadions

    Hmm, if you're in a fleet check K13 then.
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  • spy8446spy8446 Member Posts: 515 Arc User
    All of you are making valid points.
    Regardless of how the craft system could work, I present a possible example.

    Lets say I want to farm space Undine kills (8472) but my load out is too spread out with different kinds of Phasers and its cannon based.
    Being able to craft some Bio phasers as both cannons and turrets might be more particle.
    I think more so considering the limited selection of buying the stock Bio phasers that IMHO are not very impressive alone.
    Again just my thoughts.

    Because IIRC, most of the rep weapons are beam based, very few have cannons or turrets, or even twin beams.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,964 Arc User
    id like to craft ship weaps like the DSC beam arrays (disrup) that shoot like a gatling gun, but in different energy types.
    meh

  • eladonwarps#6040 eladonwarps Member Posts: 195 Arc User
    First update to crafting ought to be clarification, cleaning up things like the Sci console options. Description on the page references stats that must be obsolete, and there's several redundant ones that do the same things.

    It's be nice to have things like more Craftable sets, like a ground set or weapon set. Maybe not quite as good as Rep sets or Lobi sets, but a different combo of bonuses. Heck, make them a new recipe unlock for hitting R&D 20, gods know that's painful long haul for not much gain.

    I say this with love as someone who uses quite a bit more crafted gear than the average player, just for the kicks. But it could use some attention.
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  • revanindustriesrevanindustries Member Posts: 505 Arc User
    A crafted Aegis ground set would be very nice. And anything that adds more depth to crafting I am in favor of. We definitely need something to use crafting for other than starting gear for alts and the occasional PEP/TR-116
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 53,036 Community Moderator
    spy8446 wrote: »
    All of you are making valid points.
    Regardless of how the craft system could work, I present a possible example.

    Lets say I want to farm space Undine kills (8472) but my load out is too spread out with different kinds of Phasers and its cannon based.
    Being able to craft some Bio phasers as both cannons and turrets might be more particle.
    I think more so considering the limited selection of buying the stock Bio phasers that IMHO are not very impressive alone.
    Again just my thoughts.

    Because IIRC, most of the rep weapons are beam based, very few have cannons or turrets, or even twin beams.

    Most have both beam and cannon for the standard Rep variants, and the sets tend to have either a beam or a cannon option. I think there's only like one or two that don't have an option for the set.
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  • spy8446spy8446 Member Posts: 515 Arc User
    Off the top of my head, I can only think of ...4? reps that have cannons. Gama, Tholian, TRIBBLE, and Lukari, I may have missed some sure, but I dont think by much.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 5,269 Arc User
    edited February 25
    One simple update/upgrade would be to allow you to use the rep collectibles as an additional ingredient when crafting weapons, and give them a visual appropriate to that rep. (Two of the reps - Romulan and Nukara - don't have collectibles but those could be added to facilitate this).

    So for example an omni-beam could be crafted with a Protomatter Container and would come out looking like the Lukari rep weapons.

    AND... yes, cleaning out some old text/options, as mentioned in the science consoles. There's also the "return to" button inside the Dyson Sphere gate area that directs to an outdated sector block instead of Beta Quadrant.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 53,036 Community Moderator
    spy8446 wrote: »
    Off the top of my head, I can only think of ...4? reps that have cannons. Gama, Tholian, TRIBBLE, and Lukari, I may have missed some sure, but I dont think by much.

    Dyson Rep's weapon can be either.
    Undine has a Turret.
    Delta has a cannon option as well as beam
    Iconian has a cannon option as well as beam
    Terran has a cannon option as well as beam
    Temporal has a cannon option as well as beam
    Lukari has a cannon option as well as beam
    Competitive has a cannon (turret) option as well as beam (omni)
    Gamma has a cannon (turret) option as well as beam (omni)

    https://sto.gamepedia.com/Set

    The majority of the rep sets have options for beam and cannon builds.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • spy8446spy8446 Member Posts: 515 Arc User
    I stand corrected, but that just shows how little I personally use cannons in general :tongue:
    But yes, being able to craft rep weapons alone would not be hard to do, or would it be hard to do for "odd" weapons like the Retro phasers and others that only show up either as a reward or a standard from a type of ship like the coalition disruptor and so on.
  • davefenestratordavefenestrator Member Posts: 8,818 Arc User
    edited February 26
    I like the idea of more crafting stuff, but I agree we'll never get lock box gear unless the mats come from scrapping lock box gear.

    For missing rep gear, it probably makes more sense to add the missing non-set gear into the rep boxes and rep dil store.
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,765 Bug Hunter
    I'm still waiting to see what the crafting changes they had planned for later this year will reveal...
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