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Klingon ranks

I may have brought this up before, but I'm not sure. So, I thought I'd bring it up again.

I think the Klingon rank structure could use a revamp. We've seen Klingons using both army and navy ranks in the shows and movies. So, I thought they could change the current progression of rank titles to accommodate both in a logical fashion. What I suggest is this:

Starfleet==Klingon
Midshipman==Bekk
Ensign==Warrior
Lieutenant jg.==Sergeant
Lieutenant==Lieutenant
Lt. Commander==Major
Commander==Commander
Captain==Colonel
Commodore==Captain
Rear Admiral==Brigadier
Vice Admiral==Admiral
Admiral==General
Fleet Admiral==Marshal

The idea was to alternate between army and navy ranks. I know, sergeant is an enlisted rank, but it fits the role of the officer as a leader among junior warriors. In this progression, Lieutenants and Commanders are at the same grades, which fits what we've seen on the shows (eg. Riker was regarded as a Commander when serving in the Pagh). This also makes the rank of Major match up with Lt. Commander, as it actually does in most militaries.

I wondered about the placement of Colonel and Captain. I wanted to keep the progression of army and navy ranks alternating, which made Colonel the equivalent of a Starfleet Captain. Where then, would we put the rank of Captain (as in Captain Kargon of the Pagh)? Well, we know Commodores did still command a single ship (eg. Commodore Decker), so it seems plausible the equivalent rank for the Klingons would do the same. So, I thought putting Captain as equivalent to Commodore would work. It would be plausible to switch them around, too... but then you would have Colonel being followed by Brigadier (which isn't bad, I just wanted to keep that alternating progression).

The one major change is the removal of Dahar Master as a rank. It never seemed to me that Dahar Master was a rank. Consider that Kor, the Dahar Master, served as a junior officer on the Rotarran. It seemed to be more of an honorific, like a knighthood.

What do you think?
Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.

Comments

  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,053 Arc User
    Honestly I find the mix of naval and army ranks rather confusing, also historically in English the CO of a vessel has been called "captain" regardless of their rank.

    Personally I'd go with something like this Bekk, Sergeant, Lt., Sr. Lt., major, colonel, brigadier, Major Gen., Lt. Gen, General, Grand General(or alternatively Marshal).

    This removes the Dahar master (which I too saw as honorific) but maintains a fairly consistent and non-confusing structure. the "senior Lieutenant" comes from the ranking of the Finnish defense force (where it's called properly a "yliluutnantti" in Finnish) though IIRC German and Swedish rankings also have equivalents (or at least had).
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 1,845 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Honestly I find the mix of naval and army ranks rather confusing, also historically in English the CO of a vessel has been called "captain" regardless of their rank.

    Personally I'd go with something like this Bekk, Sergeant, Lt., Sr. Lt., major, colonel, brigadier, Major Gen., Lt. Gen, General, Grand General(or alternatively Marshal).

    This removes the Dahar master (which I too saw as honorific) but maintains a fairly consistent and non-confusing structure. the "senior Lieutenant" comes from the ranking of the Finnish defense force (where it's called properly a "yliluutnantti" in Finnish) though IIRC German and Swedish rankings also have equivalents (or at least had).

    Similar... but I was trying to eliminate the combined ranks (like Lieutenant Commander or Major General... or upper and lower grades, like Lieutenant junior grade or senior grade, or the current Rear Admiral ranks in Starfleet).

    I'm uncertain where the term Bekk comes from, but I took it to be subordinate to a warrior, which seems to be more or less the starting point for the Klingon in the shows... but might itself be considered a position, rather than a title (ie. even higher ranks, like General Martok, would be considered Warriors). In any case, Sergeant still stands well as senior to the rank and file.

    I was navy, so I'm aware that Captain is a title used to describe the commander of a ship, regardless of rank. In addition, we have TWO variations of Captain, in the ground forces AND the navy, both as actual rank titles. An issue was that the rank of Captain in the army is equivalent to the rank of Lieutenant in the navy. If we maintained this, it would be inconsistent with the Klingon Captains we've seen in Trek (eg. Kargon, on the Pagh, who was superior to Commander Riker). So, I thought it better to keep it consistent with the naval version of the rank.

    Of course, as I mentioned, the rank of Colonel in the army is equivalent to a navy Captain, which again creates a bit of conflict.

    As I described, my solution was to make the rank of Captain roughly equivalent to a Commodore, and Colonel would be equivalent to the Starfleet Captain. I would be fine reversing them, however.

    I don't recall ever seeing any Klingon officer being called "Admiral" or any such variation, but there's nothing to say they don't exist. To fill out the ranks as I had planned, it allowed the use of the Admiral grade nicely.

    The only other one I wondered about a bit was Marshal, which would ordinarily be an army rank. I'd been trying to alternate the sequence, army-navy-army, and so on... so ideally it would be a navy rank there... perhaps Fleet Admiral... but I'd been trying to avoid those combined titles. Perhaps we could borrow a page from Warhammer, and use the title "Warmaster..."

    Looking at my OP, I see that it's a bit hard to read the rank structure I suggested, so let me restate it again without the Starfleet equivalences...

    Bekk
    Warrior
    Sergeant
    Lieutenant
    Major
    Commander
    Colonel
    Captain
    Brigadier
    Admiral
    General
    Marshal
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
  • kellmg96#5851 kellmg96 Member Posts: 627 Arc User
    ummm pretty sure Colonel either always outranks a captain, or is its equivalent.
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  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,765 Bug Hunter
    edited February 22
    I'm fine with the Klingon Ranks just how they are; and I suspect many are.

    Perhaps it would be nice if Klingons could unlock a few of Titles through various Accolades... ...I think if you revised how you approach it, perhaps it might be considered just not as originally conceived.

    Generally for Klingons however, Commander's were often the Captain's of smaller vessel's used throughout Star Trek. Captain was often reserved for those given the honor of flying a larger ship. Though Admiral technically is the highest Rank in Klingon Defense Force, the only to out rank a General in Klingon Lore. Those who earned Admiral (most senior Military rank) later were often given the honorable title of Dahar Master (which STO ended up adopting instead of Admiral) though I don't know why, but can assume it's given the more honorable title.

    NOTE: The following two sites attempt each at describing those seen in Trek Lore; but neither offers a complete listing either.

    https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Klingon_ranks
    ╘ Note: Doesn't identify all Officer Ranks, as less was shown on screen; yet beta identifies them thru other trek fiction.

    https://memory-beta.fandom.com/wiki/Klingon_ranks
    ╘ Note: They identify Dahar Master was the equivalent of Fleet Admiral, seen in Enterprise of the Klingon Defense Force.

    Hope that helps a bit, still I think there are a few title's that would be nice to earn. Still it would be nice to see the Fleet Admiral Title, though its the same rank often shortened to just Admiral for those who earn Dahar Master.

    I doubt we'll see Klingon ranks changed, as they were approved by ViacomCBS after consultation by show Experts.
    Post edited by strathkin on
    aYC8Lwf.png
  • fallenkezef#4581 fallenkezef Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    ummm pretty sure Colonel either always outranks a captain, or is its equivalent.

    Captain is an odd rank. A naval captain is equal to a colonel, an army captain is roughly equal to a lieutenant commander.
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,415 Arc User
    Bekk is higher than warrior in my opinion. A bekk is the lowest enlisted rank on a ship, an ensign. Warrior is not really a rank as every single Klingon is considered to be 'a' warrior as long as they can pick up a weapon (klingon society is feudal, every citizen or peasant is probably able to be levied into service).

    'Midshipman' doesn't exist in Starfleet, ensign is the lowest enlisted rank with all non-enlisted being called 'crewman' in the shows. But our characters are cadets, so career officers becoming ensigns.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,053 Arc User
    angrytarg wrote: »
    Bekk is higher than warrior in my opinion. A bekk is the lowest enlisted rank on a ship, an ensign. Warrior is not really a rank as every single Klingon is considered to be 'a' warrior as long as they can pick up a weapon (klingon society is feudal, every citizen or peasant is probably able to be levied into service).

    'Midshipman' doesn't exist in Starfleet, ensign is the lowest enlisted rank with all non-enlisted being called 'crewman' in the shows. But our characters are cadets, so career officers becoming ensigns.
    Enlisted ranks do exist beyond "crewman" but they're rarely seen and in-consistent (for example Miles O'Brien was a Chief Petty Officer, which is a NCO rank as was Worf's adopted (human) dad as well).
  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,415 Arc User
    edited February 22
    > @spiritborn said:
    > Enlisted ranks do exist beyond "crewman" but they're rarely seen and in-consistent (for example Miles O'Brien was a Chief Petty Officer, which is a NCO rank as was Worf's adopted (human) dad as well).

    This is correct, they exist formally. However, any non-officer being adressed - except the 'chief' - is just called 'Crewman'. Probably like a Lt. Cmdr. Being referred to as 'Commander' in short.

    EDIT: Oh I forgot the new shows, which featured 'specialist' Burnham. Still, the majority of shows had the crewman thing.
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,053 Arc User
    edited February 22
    angrytarg wrote: »
    > @spiritborn said:
    > Enlisted ranks do exist beyond "crewman" but they're rarely seen and in-consistent (for example Miles O'Brien was a Chief Petty Officer, which is a NCO rank as was Worf's adopted (human) dad as well).

    This is correct, they exist formally. However, any non-officer being adressed - except the 'chief' - is just called 'Crewman'. Probably like a Lt. Cmdr. Being referred to as 'Commander' in short.

    EDIT: Oh I forgot the new shows, which featured 'specialist' Burnham. Still, the majority of shows had the crewman thing.

    Well specialist is one of those things that's as much a title as a rank.

    EDIT:Also when I was serving it wasn't atypical for officer to address a collective group of enlisted as "gunners"(well "tykkimiehet" as they obviously used Finnish) I served in the costal artillery branch, though in the administrative duties) even there might be NCOs in the group. Also it wasn't atypical for officers to address enlisted or more junior officers by their last name, pretty much no one addressed me by my first name during my service (the exceptions being my cousin and couple of old school mates I met there).

    EDIT2:It's also possible that "crewman" in those cases meant "member of the crew who isn't an officer" rather then refering to the rank.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,964 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    > @spiritborn said:
    > Enlisted ranks do exist beyond "crewman" but they're rarely seen and in-consistent (for example Miles O'Brien was a Chief Petty Officer, which is a NCO rank as was Worf's adopted (human) dad as well).

    This is correct, they exist formally. However, any non-officer being adressed - except the 'chief' - is just called 'Crewman'. Probably like a Lt. Cmdr. Being referred to as 'Commander' in short.

    EDIT: Oh I forgot the new shows, which featured 'specialist' Burnham. Still, the majority of shows had the crewman thing.

    Well specialist is one of those things that's as much a title as a rank.

    EDIT:Also when I was serving it wasn't atypical for officer to address a collective group of enlisted as "gunners"(well "tykkimiehet" as they obviously used Finnish) I served in the costal artillery branch, though in the administrative duties) even there might be NCOs in the group. Also it wasn't atypical for officers to address enlisted or more junior officers by their last name, pretty much no one addressed me by my first name during my service (the exceptions being my cousin and couple of old school mates I met there).

    EDIT2:It's also possible that "crewman" in those cases meant "member of the crew who isn't an officer" rather then refering to the rank.

    yeah, it was usually last name only, unless ones was in trouble, being singled out for an assignment, or other. lol

    at times when the big wigs showed up they would attach the rank structure prior. but even then, that was hit and miss as to whom the big wig was.
    meh

  • angrytargangrytarg Member Posts: 10,415 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    > @spiritborn said:
    > Enlisted ranks do exist beyond "crewman" but they're rarely seen and in-consistent (for example Miles O'Brien was a Chief Petty Officer, which is a NCO rank as was Worf's adopted (human) dad as well).

    This is correct, they exist formally. However, any non-officer being adressed - except the 'chief' - is just called 'Crewman'. Probably like a Lt. Cmdr. Being referred to as 'Commander' in short.

    EDIT: Oh I forgot the new shows, which featured 'specialist' Burnham. Still, the majority of shows had the crewman thing.

    Well specialist is one of those things that's as much a title as a rank.

    EDIT:Also when I was serving it wasn't atypical for officer to address a collective group of enlisted as "gunners"(well "tykkimiehet" as they obviously used Finnish) I served in the costal artillery branch, though in the administrative duties) even there might be NCOs in the group. Also it wasn't atypical for officers to address enlisted or more junior officers by their last name, pretty much no one addressed me by my first name during my service (the exceptions being my cousin and couple of old school mates I met there).

    EDIT2:It's also possible that "crewman" in those cases meant "member of the crew who isn't an officer" rather then refering to the rank.

    It seems you are right, specialist doesn'T seem to be a rank itself but a qualification anyone could hold. 'Crewman' however is a rank, according to various cited episodes on MA ( see https://memory-alpha.fandom.com/wiki/Crewman ) - appearantly there is also seniority amongst 'crewman' rank, as in 3rd, 2nd and 1st class. Interestingly, this page claims that "bekk" is the Klingon equivalent of crewman, however following the link the bekk page specifies the rank as being an enlisted rank, completely contradicting the former statement - once again showing that Memory Alpha needs to be taken with a grain of salt.

    However regardless, while any member of a crew is a crewman, I always got the vibe that it was the entry-level rank as well for non-comissioned officers. Your example might be true in real life, but once again, star Trek isn't and anyone's real-life service experience is not transferable - we have to look at the episodes to determine how that fictional organization operates.​​
    lFC4bt2.gif
    ^ Memory Alpha.org is not canon. It's a open wiki with arbitrary rules. Only what can be cited from an episode is. ^
    "No. Men do not roar. Women roar. Then they hurl heavy objects... and claw at you." -Worf, son of Mogh
    "A filthy, mangy beast, but in its bony breast beat the heart of a warrior" - "faithful" (...) "but ever-ready to follow the call of the wild." - Martok, about a Targ
    "That pig smelled horrid. A sweet-sour, extremely pungent odor. I showered and showered, and it took me a week to get rid of it!" - Robert Justman, appreciating Emmy-Lou
  • fallenkezef#4581 fallenkezef Member Posts: 633 Arc User
    In the old Star Trek RPG, Klingon officers held comissions in both the navy and the marines. They would advance in the field they chose so you could have a KDF officer who was a Captain in the navy but still a Lieutenant in the marines or a marine general but a naval commander.

    They could transfer between branches and follow both careers.
  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 1,845 Arc User
    The thing is, there are many ranks in the current progression that are missing:

    I gather there was a Fleet Admiral in an episode of Enterprise.
    Star Trek VI gave us Colonel Worf.
    There was reference to Sergeants in a couple of places.

    If you look on Memory Alpha, they list the progression as

    Fleet Admiral
    General
    Brigadier
    Colonel
    Captain
    Commander
    Lieutenant
    Sergeant
    Bekk

    We know that there are some equivalencies with Starfleet.

    General seems to be approximate to Admiral
    Captain seems roughly approximate to Captain
    Commander equals Commander
    Lieutenant equals Lieutenant

    A Brigadier would normally be equal to a Commodore
    A Colonel would normally be equal to a Captain
    A Sergeant woudn't BE an officer, but is included

    Plugged in, we get the following

    Fleet Admiral
    General
    unassigned
    unassigned

    Brigadier
    Captain=Colonel
    Commander
    unassigned
    Lieutenant
    Sergeant
    Bekk

    Between Lieutenant and Commander would be Lt. Commander. The equivalent is Major, which I think fits perfectly.
    Captain and Colonel shouldn't be at the same grade, one needs to be pushed UP a grade, which would also push Brigadier up one grade. Personally, I prefer the idea of pushing Captain up one, but either works.
    With Brigadier being pushed up one grade, that leaves an opening between Brigadier and General, which should be a naval rank, according to my alternating plan. Admiral fits there nicely, which results in the progression I suggested in the OP. Slightly modified, we get this:

    Fleet Admiral
    General
    Admiral
    Brigadier
    Captain
    Colonel
    Commander
    Major
    Lieutenant
    Sergeant
    Bekk

    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,053 Arc User
    spiritborn wrote: »
    angrytarg wrote: »
    > @spiritborn said:
    > Enlisted ranks do exist beyond "crewman" but they're rarely seen and in-consistent (for example Miles O'Brien was a Chief Petty Officer, which is a NCO rank as was Worf's adopted (human) dad as well).

    This is correct, they exist formally. However, any non-officer being adressed - except the 'chief' - is just called 'Crewman'. Probably like a Lt. Cmdr. Being referred to as 'Commander' in short.

    EDIT: Oh I forgot the new shows, which featured 'specialist' Burnham. Still, the majority of shows had the crewman thing.

    Well specialist is one of those things that's as much a title as a rank.

    EDIT:Also when I was serving it wasn't atypical for officer to address a collective group of enlisted as "gunners"(well "tykkimiehet" as they obviously used Finnish) I served in the costal artillery branch, though in the administrative duties) even there might be NCOs in the group. Also it wasn't atypical for officers to address enlisted or more junior officers by their last name, pretty much no one addressed me by my first name during my service (the exceptions being my cousin and couple of old school mates I met there).

    EDIT2:It's also possible that "crewman" in those cases meant "member of the crew who isn't an officer" rather then refering to the rank.

    yeah, it was usually last name only, unless ones was in trouble, being singled out for an assignment, or other. lol

    at times when the big wigs showed up they would attach the rank structure prior. but even then, that was hit and miss as to whom the big wig was.

    Highest rank I met during my 11 months of service was either a commander or captain(navy), you'll have to excuse my poor memory here it was 20 years ago. I was typically called by my last name as I said before, I pretty much never got into trouble, however I got this nice story about a time when few others got into trouble when I was in guard duty (night shift too), but that's way off topic so you'll have to PM me if you want to hear that story.
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,765 Bug Hunter
    edited February 22
    The thing is, there are many ranks in the current progression that are missing:

    I gather there was a Fleet Admiral in an episode of Enterprise.
    Star Trek VI gave us Colonel Worf.

    A Colonel would normally be equal to a Captain

    ...

    I do think it would be nice to see a Title of Fleet Admiral or Admiral (same rank) just in short form; possible also a Colonel Title bestowed as something one earned for sure.

    I know Klingons also have several enlisted ranks, just we don't see them in game, yet it also be cool to unlock those for Bridge Officer's uniforms to offer variety. There are a limited few Federation enlisted ranks, Master Chief P.O. they allowed shown on Fed Bridge Officer's but it was an earlier version of the Pip from TNG, not the revised DS9 rank, they also showed a Federation Specialist rank--during the episode of the Traveler. :)
    aYC8Lwf.png
  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    The only things that really need to change with ranks is the correction of 'Brigadier-General' to 'Brigadier', the replacement of Dahar Master with an actual rank, changing 'Warrior' to 'Bekk' and the changing of the non-canon upper and lower halves of 'Rear Admiral' with the correct 'Commodore' and 'Rear Admiral' and make them full 10 point ranks not 5 point ranks.


    It would also be nice if the KDF and RR could get their ranks on pips like they had in TNG and DS9 and not just increasingly gaudy sashes and capes.
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  • colonelmarikcolonelmarik Member Posts: 1,845 Arc User
    I agree, we need to see Commodores in Starfleet instead of Lower Half Rear Admirals.... but that's another thread.

    It's simply that we have several Klingon ranks we KNOW from canon.

    We know Bekk is the lowest grade because Alexander was one, and he was on his first assignment.
    We know there are Sergeants, inferior to Lieutenants and superior to Bekks.
    We know there are Lieutenants, equal in grade to Starfleet Lieutenants.
    We know there are Commanders, equal to Starfleet Commanders. This means there is a gap between Lieutenant and Commander. In Starfleet, that's Lt. Commander, but we have never seen a Klingon Lt. Commander, so I thought it would be fitting to use the equivalent army rank, Major.
    We know there are Klingon Captains, and we know there are Klingon Colonels. We know in reality, they are equivalent grades, but it seems to me that since we're talking about SHIPS, the Captain would have seniority over the Colonel.
    We know there are Brigadiers.
    We know there are Generals, equal to Starfleet Admirals. This means there is a gap between Brigadier and General. Since we've never seen a Major General or Lt. General Klingon, there's no requirement to use either rank.
    We know there is a Fleet Admiral. Since we have a FLEET Admiral, it makes sense there would be non-fleet Admirals, which we could easily put in that slot below General.

    This gives us the progression I've suggested. It maintains the established canon ranks, and only adds two (Major and Admiral), both of which seem perfect for those slots.
    Once, I was simply called Mojo. Now, I'm forced into a new name, but don't be fooled, I'm the original STO Mojo!

    This game needs detailed crafting, exploration and interaction systems.
  • spiritbornspiritborn Member Posts: 3,053 Arc User
    Brigadier-general is the US way of saying that rank (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_officer_rank_insignia ) so it's technically not incorrect just a variant and do remember that both CBS and Cryptic are USA based companies.
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,964 Arc User
    commodore should have been the highest rank visually and title wise for feds.

    d master for klinks is over the top as well, should have stopped at general.

    i say this since klinks seems to value service in person not only for ones self (honor and glory) but that they dislike being behind a desk. large and in charge.

    feds...tradition and history (for the most part) shows us that captains maintain and are the top rank in a ship. (equal to colonel in army terms) commodore was a title, excuse my fast pace at definition, given and awarded to a war time or senior cpt in charge of a group of ships. i.e. more responsibility of a cpt, but just short or equal to rear adm.

    yes the rank was removed for varied reasons, but given the state of the game, and how we command a ship and others now, and since we stay in the drivers seat, commodore is best suited for the game.

    but this has been debated many times. for and against.

    for klinks, again, im all for dropping d master and replacing it with general or something else that denotes a similar title, like grand general or house general.

    or whatever. lol.

    meh

  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    I agree, we need to see Commodores in Starfleet instead of Lower Half Rear Admirals.... but that's another thread.

    It's simply that we have several Klingon ranks we KNOW from canon.

    We know Bekk is the lowest grade because Alexander was one, and he was on his first assignment.
    We know there are Sergeants, inferior to Lieutenants and superior to Bekks.
    We know there are Lieutenants, equal in grade to Starfleet Lieutenants.
    We know there are Commanders, equal to Starfleet Commanders. This means there is a gap between Lieutenant and Commander. In Starfleet, that's Lt. Commander, but we have never seen a Klingon Lt. Commander, so I thought it would be fitting to use the equivalent army rank, Major.
    We know there are Klingon Captains, and we know there are Klingon Colonels. We know in reality, they are equivalent grades, but it seems to me that since we're talking about SHIPS, the Captain would have seniority over the Colonel.
    We know there are Brigadiers.
    We know there are Generals, equal to Starfleet Admirals. This means there is a gap between Brigadier and General. Since we've never seen a Major General or Lt. General Klingon, there's no requirement to use either rank.
    We know there is a Fleet Admiral. Since we have a FLEET Admiral, it makes sense there would be non-fleet Admirals, which we could easily put in that slot below General.

    This gives us the progression I've suggested. It maintains the established canon ranks, and only adds two (Major and Admiral), both of which seem perfect for those slots.

    It's possible that the KDF works like the Imperial military (in SW) in that both Army and Navy personnel have access to the exact same equipment (Star Destroyers, TIEs, Stormtroopers etc.) but are two different services, so rather than mixing in the ranks STO could just keep army or navy for the KDF but not have to change any of the interactions.
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Brigadier-general is the US way of saying that rank (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_officer_rank_insignia ) so it's technically not incorrect just a variant and do remember that both CBS and Cryptic are USA based companies.

    It's incorrect in that Kerla is never referred to as 'Brigadier General' or 'General'. So just remember that the KDF isn't an American organisation.
    commodore should have been the highest rank visually and title wise for feds.

    d master for klinks is over the top as well, should have stopped at general.

    'Brigadier' is the equivalent to 'Commodore' not 'General'.

    But, if you want to be a Captain, then set your title. My characters are Fleet Admirals and happy to be there.
    feds...tradition and history (for the most part) shows us that captains maintain and are the top rank in a ship. (equal to colonel in army terms)

    And canon also shows us Admirals in personal command of Starships, in both Starfleet and the KDF.
    commodore was a title, excuse my fast pace at definition, given and awarded to a war time or senior cpt in charge of a group of ships. i.e. more responsibility of a cpt, but just short or equal to rear adm.

    Commodore is a 1 star admiral rank in both Starfleet and the real world in Commonwealth militaries. It's only a title in US based ones and Starfleet keeps it as a set rank not a title.
    yes the rank was removed for varied reasons, but given the state of the game, and how we command a ship and others now, and since we stay in the drivers seat, commodore is best suited for the game.

    It was never removed, it was never in the game.
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    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

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    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
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  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,964 Arc User
    artan42 wrote: »
    I agree, we need to see Commodores in Starfleet instead of Lower Half Rear Admirals.... but that's another thread.

    It's simply that we have several Klingon ranks we KNOW from canon.

    We know Bekk is the lowest grade because Alexander was one, and he was on his first assignment.
    We know there are Sergeants, inferior to Lieutenants and superior to Bekks.
    We know there are Lieutenants, equal in grade to Starfleet Lieutenants.
    We know there are Commanders, equal to Starfleet Commanders. This means there is a gap between Lieutenant and Commander. In Starfleet, that's Lt. Commander, but we have never seen a Klingon Lt. Commander, so I thought it would be fitting to use the equivalent army rank, Major.
    We know there are Klingon Captains, and we know there are Klingon Colonels. We know in reality, they are equivalent grades, but it seems to me that since we're talking about SHIPS, the Captain would have seniority over the Colonel.
    We know there are Brigadiers.
    We know there are Generals, equal to Starfleet Admirals. This means there is a gap between Brigadier and General. Since we've never seen a Major General or Lt. General Klingon, there's no requirement to use either rank.
    We know there is a Fleet Admiral. Since we have a FLEET Admiral, it makes sense there would be non-fleet Admirals, which we could easily put in that slot below General.

    This gives us the progression I've suggested. It maintains the established canon ranks, and only adds two (Major and Admiral), both of which seem perfect for those slots.

    It's possible that the KDF works like the Imperial military (in SW) in that both Army and Navy personnel have access to the exact same equipment (Star Destroyers, TIEs, Stormtroopers etc.) but are two different services, so rather than mixing in the ranks STO could just keep army or navy for the KDF but not have to change any of the interactions.
    spiritborn wrote: »
    Brigadier-general is the US way of saying that rank (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_Army_officer_rank_insignia ) so it's technically not incorrect just a variant and do remember that both CBS and Cryptic are USA based companies.

    It's incorrect in that Kerla is never referred to as 'Brigadier General' or 'General'. So just remember that the KDF isn't an American organisation.
    commodore should have been the highest rank visually and title wise for feds.

    d master for klinks is over the top as well, should have stopped at general.

    'Brigadier' is the equivalent to 'Commodore' not 'General'.

    But, if you want to be a Captain, then set your title. My characters are Fleet Admirals and happy to be there.
    feds...tradition and history (for the most part) shows us that captains maintain and are the top rank in a ship. (equal to colonel in army terms)

    And canon also shows us Admirals in personal command of Starships, in both Starfleet and the KDF.
    commodore was a title, excuse my fast pace at definition, given and awarded to a war time or senior cpt in charge of a group of ships. i.e. more responsibility of a cpt, but just short or equal to rear adm.

    Commodore is a 1 star admiral rank in both Starfleet and the real world in Commonwealth militaries. It's only a title in US based ones and Starfleet keeps it as a set rank not a title.
    yes the rank was removed for varied reasons, but given the state of the game, and how we command a ship and others now, and since we stay in the drivers seat, commodore is best suited for the game.

    It was never removed, it was never in the game.

    canon...again with canon. why do people mention canon when we have space and ground vomit as such? hardly, both in trek and in real life, does an admiral command a ship. they can, but it is very rare. thus the idea of it happening as a fleet adm, is even more off canon than you think.

    i know what brig is equal to, i was talking about stopping the rank for klink at general, not d master. maybe it was not understood as such.

    glad you find fleet adm toons are your perfect flyers. i am not new and am aware i can change a title. i was replying to the topic of the thread, so why was there a need to infer i dont know the game?

    removed from US service and replaced with rear adm lower half. not from the game. again, misunderstood, but thanks for the history bit.

    anything else i can clear up for you?
    meh

  • artan42artan42 Member Posts: 10,450 Bug Hunter
    canon...again with canon. why do people mention canon when we have space and ground vomit as such? hardly, both in trek and in real life, does an admiral command a ship. they can, but it is very rare. thus the idea of it happening as a fleet adm, is even more off canon than you think.

    Is it possible you overlooked the idea that people that want the ranks in game to conform to the canonical ones also want to remove the over done effects?

    The actual numbers of admirals seen in Trek is very small despite many thousands of them existing for an organisation that size so you can't actually tell me any stats on how common or uncommon it would be for admirals to command ships and that's about as canon as you'll get.
    anything else i can clear up for you?

    That should be sufficient thank you.
    22762792376_ac7c992b7c_o.png
    Norway and Yeager dammit... I still want my Typhoon and Jupiter though.
    JJ Trek The Kelvin Timeline is just Trek and it's fully canon... get over it. But I still prefer TAR.

    #TASforSTO


    '...I can tell you that we're not in the military and that we intend no harm to the whales.' Kirk: The Voyage Home
    'Starfleet is not a military organisation. Its purpose is exploration.' Picard: Peak Performance
    'This is clearly a military operation. Is that what we are now? Because I thought we were explorers!' Scotty: Into Darkness
    '...The Federation. Starfleet. We're not a military agency.' Scotty: Beyond
    'I'm not a soldier anymore. I'm an engineer.' Miles O'Brien: Empok Nor
    '...Starfleet could use you... It's a peacekeeping and humanitarian armada...' Admiral Pike: Star Trek

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