Seriously: Why are weapons, particularly melee weapons, so oinkin' huge?

angrytarg · February 2021

The new Bat'leths are even bigger than the default ones, the new DSC one for the recruit is like 1 and 1/3 of the character's body size! Those weapons were never that huge, with canon mention puts it below 120 centimeters in length, which would roughly be foot-to-hip length (granted, some varitions of the Bat'leth like the KT one are obviously a bit bigger)

It really doesn't look good. Seriously.

darkbladejk · February 2021

One could argue it's a different variant of the weapon. I think of it like the difference between a Crusader sword, vs a broadsword like a Claymore. The knightly swords used by the crusaders were typically one handed weapons which allowed for pairing with a shield and were more in your face types of swords. While they excelled at closer quarters, because they were typically one handed, it was alot harder to get major power strikes in with those swords. Not impossible, but more difficult.

Then you have the Claymore which is a 2 handed sword and because of it's greater length, often gave more slaughter per swing with wider arcing sweeps, and could allow one to tag an opponent at a greater distance. Being able to get both hands on the sword easily could also allow for more powerful strikes on average than one could get with a crusader type sword. In combat Claymores were often used to break the legs of passing horses forcing the rider to dismount or get thrown from the falling horse. The wielder of the Claymore would often pair it with another smaller sword that they could then use to finish off horse riders before they could react. While the Claymore was good at hitting stuff from a larger distance, it also required much larger sweeping motions and larger arcs to move the thing around. If one got into close quarters against a Claymore wielder, they were at a distinct disadvantage. Likewise if one could keep the crusader sword at distance, the Claymore had the edge.

Likewise as to how this fits in to batleths and melee weapons, one could view the standard batleths as your close quarters type of weapon, and the larger weapons as more inspired by the broadsword type of fighting. Probably not the best examples ever but hopefully you get where I'm going with that. Some of the weapons I think go overboard on size, but that's how I rationalize some of the larger weapons vs smaller.

saurializard · February 2021

Are you going to tell Klingon Monk Darth Maul he can't carry a huge double-bladed sword and gift one to you to his face?

Thought so.

evilmark444 · February 2021

Apparently they have to make them oversized so that they can fit in all character's hands, from a human up to a gorn. Why they didn't program it to scale weapon models based on species like other games do, I have no idea.

fleetcaptain5 · February 2021

Because size matters!

fleetcaptain5 · February 2021

Seriously though, relating the weapon to the character's length isn't a good way of determining whether it's too big or not.

As can be seen from the animations, the hands are held in the middle. It's not like a sword that has a handle near the bottom. So that already cuts its reach in either direction in half.

And it's a melee weapon. If you can increase its size without seriously limiting its use (for example, without making it much heavier), why not do it?

It's not difficult to find reasons why the Klingons would want the weapon to be larger.

smokebailey · February 2021

Because it's FUN.

fred26291 · February 2021

@smokebailey I like the mallot. Thought of using that on many people LOL

gaalom · February 2021

Nah the orignal Bat'leths were never this huge but now they are. There's reason why my KDF toon switched to a sword.

fallenkezef · February 2021

Tell me again oversized weapons are bad?

darkbladejk · February 2021

fleetcaptain5#1134 wrote: »

Seriously though, relating the weapon to the character's length isn't a good way of determining whether it's too big or not.

As can be seen from the animations, the hands are held in the middle. It's not like a sword that has a handle near the bottom. So that already cuts its reach in either direction in half.

And it's a melee weapon. If you can increase its size without seriously limiting its use (for example, without making it much heavier), why not do it?

It's not difficult to find reasons why the Klingons would want the weapon to be larger.

Assuming a standard grip on a batleth at the center, you are correct that it limits the reach of the weapon on either side. However a batleth can actually be gripped and swung from one side or the other if the situation calls for it, though it's definitely not as common. We actually see an on screen example of this in the episode where Worf killed Duras where he gripped it towards the back of the weapon to get more power behind the downward thrust into Duras's chest. From a practical sense batleths technically have 3 places a user can grip the weapon, with the situation dictating which grip and types of swings/thrusts will be most effective.

As for scaling the model, I would tend to agree that once you have your shape they could possibly attempt to scale it up/down depending on the size of the character wielding the weapon. However depending on the program they used to create the model, and how the model itself was put together, this could potentially cause issues with clipping or a situation where the model breaks apart due to scaling issues. Think the issue with the Aquarius escort several years back when the nacelles didn't connect to the ship on the model for about 3-4 months. I do agree some of the animations could use a bit of a touch up and a bit more variety in the attack swings.

smokebailey · February 2021

fred26291#2759 wrote: »

@smokebailey I like the mallot. Thought of using that on many people LOL

Wish we had em in game, only Runescape has em, that I know of.

theanothername · February 2021

angrytarg wrote: »

The new Bat'leths are even bigger than the default ones, the new DSC one for the recruit is like 1 and 1/3 of the character's body size! Those weapons were never that huge, with canon mention puts it below 120 centimeters in length, which would roughly be foot-to-hip length (granted, some varitions of the Bat'leth like the KT one are obviously a bit bigger)

It really doesn't look good. Seriously.

My first thought when I saw the new event Bat'leth. I love the textures/design; but its giant oversize ruins it.

fallenkezef · February 2021

I see it as a zweihander style Batleth.

lianthelia · February 2021

angrytarg wrote: »

The new Bat'leths are even bigger than the default ones, the new DSC one for the recruit is like 1 and 1/3 of the character's body size! Those weapons were never that huge, with canon mention puts it below 120 centimeters in length, which would roughly be foot-to-hip length (granted, some varitions of the Bat'leth like the KT one are obviously a bit bigger)

It really doesn't look good. Seriously.

Blame the Discovery creators lol

They decided to turn the batleth into a combination of a compound bow and longbow and threw some blades on it...the Devs just went with those designs

saurializard · February 2021

lianthelia wrote: »

angrytarg wrote: »

The new Bat'leths are even bigger than the default ones, the new DSC one for the recruit is like 1 and 1/3 of the character's body size! Those weapons were never that huge, with canon mention puts it below 120 centimeters in length, which would roughly be foot-to-hip length (granted, some varitions of the Bat'leth like the KT one are obviously a bit bigger)

It really doesn't look good. Seriously.

Blame the Discovery creators lol

They decided to turn the batleth into a combination of a compound bow and longbow and threw some blades on it...the Devs just went with those designs

The DSC Bat'leth also seems to have been designed to very likely accidentally stab its owner. Heck, that's how the "fight" between Burnham and the Torchbearer ended.
When I saw him kill himself, I yelled "CALLED IT!" to myself because when the props were revealed I jokingly thought "someone is gonna injure themselves with their own one".

At least the Sto'vo Kor one has all its blades MOSTLY not aimed at its owner.

foxrockssocks · February 2021

Yeah I don't like how large most of the weapons are. They just look bad.

spiritborn · February 2021

Honestly I see the Bat'leth of Sto Vo Kor as similar to those oversized and blinged up 2 hand swords European rulers had made fpr parades (in the late middle ages or after), sure they look nice when just held but are too big and heavy to be practical (or as practical a bat'leth can be in this case), after all only klingons we see wielding those are the monks of Boreth (as far as NPCs go).

angrytarg · February 2021

> @spiritborn said:
> Honestly I see the Bat'leth of Sto Vo Kor as similar to those oversized and blinged up 2 hand swords European rulers had made fpr parades (in the late middle ages or after), sure they look nice when just held but are too big and heavy to be practical (or as practical a bat'leth can be in this case), after all only klingons we see wielding those are the monks of Boreth (as far as NPCs go).

While it is the worst offender, the other ones aren't that far behind though. The tritanium one for instance is just as huge.

Seriously: Why are weapons, particularly melee weapons, so oinkin' huge?

Comments