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Legendary Vor'cha, massive disappointment

https://www.arcgames.com/en/games/star-trek-online/news/detail/11483933

This is really sad. Command spec and a massive nerf to the turn rate from 10 down to 6.5. That is crippling to a ship that should always be more maneuverable than any version of Negh'var and has been able to use cannons effectively since the game's launch. I seriously hope the turn rate is a typo or something because 6.5 is absolutely not acceptable.
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Comments

  • revanindustriesrevanindustries Member Posts: 508 Arc User
    Ok, having looked at it here's what I have to say;

    The Bad
    • Turn Rate nerf hurts a lot (though since every dps chaser runs the competitive engines not too huge)
    • Command is the least attractive spec option

    The Good
    • 5/3 layout. Thank you so much for actually giving us a real Vor'cha setup
    • Battle Cloak will help with maneuvering
    • LtC Tac and Universal will let us have LtC Tac and Sci abilities on the frame.
    The Ugly
    • Just about every old Cryptic designed skin that will be made available (except Kamarag)
  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    Impressive visuals list

    5/3 weapon layout is good

    A bit surprised Cryptic gave it a Battle Cloak but it should have it so nicely done

    Stats overall seem well enough

    Could be a good starship trait but no numbers given besides stacks up to (10) so ???

    WTH is up with the diminished turn rate though lol this is suppose to be "legendary" where it has less turn rate compared to, I think, all other Vor'chas in-game ???
  • rattler2rattler2 Member, Moderators, Star Trek Online Moderator Posts: 55,870 Community Moderator
    What I'm interested in now is if the Kamarag is going to be rolled into older Vor'cha variants now. I'd love to be able to run the Kamarag skin on my Vor'ral.
    WTH is up with the diminished turn rate though lol this is suppose to be "legendary" where it has less turn rate compared to, I think, all other Vor'chas in-game ???

    I think its based on the fact that this isn't a standard Vor'cha based on the blog. Its based on K'mpek's beefed up version that never got finished. And honestly we have ways to counter the lower turn rate.

    Also Legendary doesn't always meen better than anything else. I personally feel that my Vizier class is superior to the Legendary Sovy in BOff layout. But that's based on my playstyle. Someone else may feel that the Legendary is superior to the Vizier. Its all based on personal preferences and playstyles.
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    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
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  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 960 Arc User
    So far the whole bundle is a huge disappointment but I'm sure their sales trends told them we want this TRIBBLE. Since both KDF Ships are huge disappointments they can keep the bundle. Not interested anymore and wasn't going to pay like 19k zen anyway for 4 ships and 2 coupons I can't use. 6.5 Turn Rate does it come with 2 Hangars or what... WTF Cryptic...
    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,482 Arc User
    Saying there are ways to make up the turn rate are simply ridiculous. The original Vor'cha/Vor'ral have 10 turn rate. You put Comp engines on those and you're doing great. Now if you want to use the L. Vor'cha you're taking a massive 35% hit to your turn rate and for what?

    The Fleet Europa/Nimitz has better turn, hull, and shielding stats than this ship with the same 5/3 layout. That is not appropriate. If you want this ship to be beefy and sluggish, then make it really beefy! Don't make it worse than standard Cstore ships and penalize the turn rate an absurd amount for the trouble.
  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 960 Arc User
    Saying there are ways to make up the turn rate are simply ridiculous. The original Vor'cha/Vor'ral have 10 turn rate. You put Comp engines on those and you're doing great. Now if you want to use the L. Vor'cha you're taking a massive 35% hit to your turn rate and for what?

    The Fleet Europa/Nimitz has better turn, hull, and shielding stats than this ship with the same 5/3 layout. That is not appropriate. If you want this ship to be beefy and sluggish, then make it really beefy! Don't make it worse than standard Cstore ships and penalize the turn rate an absurd amount for the trouble.

    Exactly its like flying a carrier without pets why would I want that.

    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • ankesorgcallitriankesorgcallitri Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    So they talk about the year of klingon how the KDF is a focus now , they give us a grindfest boring recruit event , i can ignore that i didnt expect to much but this so called legendary bundle...
    the feds get another MW ship , and what can the KDF use , the base 3000 zen ones or that cockroach shaped disco ship which i refure to even consider , i have the fed version its a really nice ship but the disco designed KDF ships are a bad joke
    So we get a Vorcha an iconic ship loved by many including me , could have been MW and i bet most ppl wouldnt mind the stupidly nurfed turn rate that much but no KDF gets a command couse we really needed one of those...
    I WAS considering this bundle even though Cryptic are overpricing everything , for those of use who dont own every zen ship the bundle is great value , but my main focus was to get a nice lookin KDF MW ship which doesent cost an arm and a leg (refering to the D7 ofc)
    so unless the last ship is a good old fashion D7 MW i am not getting this bundle and i bet i am not alone with this , the turn rate can be buffed later but i doubt they gona change it into an MW
  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    What I'm interested in now is if the Kamarag is going to be rolled into older Vor'cha variants now. I'd love to be able to run the Kamarag skin on my Vor'ral.
    WTH is up with the diminished turn rate though lol this is suppose to be "legendary" where it has less turn rate compared to, I think, all other Vor'chas in-game ???

    I think its based on the fact that this isn't a standard Vor'cha based on the blog. Its based on K'mpek's beefed up version that never got finished. And honestly we have ways to counter the lower turn rate.

    Also Legendary doesn't always meen better than anything else. I personally feel that my Vizier class is superior to the Legendary Sovy in BOff layout. But that's based on my playstyle. Someone else may feel that the Legendary is superior to the Vizier. Its all based on personal preferences and playstyles.



    I understand that 1 playstyle might favor 1 ship over another if/when the 2 ships' stats are close but not identical, I like those nuances.

    I like this rolling of the Kamarag skin into the Vor'cha line-up, not sure it makes sense, but I still like it since I consider the Kamarag the poor person's version of the D7 & the 1 I have to settle for.

    I disagree that the term "legendary" isn't being used to mean or suggest a better ship(s) & to sell so said ship(s).

    "Its all based on personal preferences and playstyles."

    Not always sometimes the numbers dictate no matter the strategy & this turn-rate is the worst for a Vor'cha, & yes you're correct there's methods to compensate for that, but that can be said for any lackluster attribute stat, but at least it isn't a turn-rate of 4. which I think is the lowest.

    Maybe I'm missing that the "legendary" Excelsior got that big of a drop in turn-rate, or was there another stat lessened that significantly?
  • mattingly1mattingly1 Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    Ok, having looked at it here's what I have to say;

    The Bad
    • Turn Rate nerf hurts a lot (though since every dps chaser runs the competitive engines not too huge)
    • Command is the least attractive spec option

    The Good
    • 5/3 layout. Thank you so much for actually giving us a real Vor'cha setup
    • Battle Cloak will help with maneuvering
    • LtC Tac and Universal will let us have LtC Tac and Sci abilities on the frame.
    The Ugly
    • Just about every old Cryptic designed skin that will be made available (except Kamarag)

    5/3 is actually a nerf with a turn rate that bad. That + command makes this thing a complete dog.
  • fallenkezef#4581 fallenkezef Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    Honestly I prefer my fleet version. Temporal spec is better than command.
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    It's trash.
    Even the Legendary B'Rel is trash.

    What a trash set of Legendary Ships.

    "Year of the Klingon"
    XzRTofz.gif
  • mattingly1mattingly1 Member Posts: 179 Arc User
    It's trash.
    Even the Legendary B'Rel is trash.

    What a trash set of Legendary Ships.

    "Year of the Klingon"

    So far, only the Excelsior is a clear, unequivocal improvement over its normal T6 equivalent, and that's not worth spending 190 USD for (much as I do want a good Excelsior). I'm really, really disappointed with this whole thing.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,913 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    I’m still saying the 6.5 turn rate is misprint.

    It just doesn’t make any sense. Cryptic always releases blogs full of errors, I expect it to be corrected.
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    Discovery is good, it's you that sucks.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,114 Arc User
    Cryptic always releases blogs full of errors, I expect it to be corrected.

    Yeah, at this point I'd actually say the chance of it being wrong for (whatever reasons) is actually higher than it being correct.

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • garaffegaraffe Member Posts: 1,353 Arc User
    The KDF get shafted again!

    We Roms at least got one good legendary ship, and I say that beats the two "legendary" ships the KDF got dumped on them.

    I wouldn't be surprised if they "corrected" the blog and give it a reasonable turn rate.
  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,714 Arc User
    I can't say I'm surprised,
    I’m still saying the 6.5 turn rate is misprint.

    It just doesn’t make any sense. Cryptic always releases blogs full of errors, I expect it to be corrected.

    It's simple...Cryptic plausible deniability. They can "say" they made the ship better but people will still complain then blame the players and there is no pleasing them...further excuses to blame why they no longer make Klingon ships

    Brel = Slight upgrade* from Fleet Brel
    Vorcha = upgraded in some ways from the fleet Vorcha but downgraded in others
    Excelsior = obvious improvement over the Fleet Excelsior

    ((*slight upgrade but clearly inferior to the anniversary raider))

    Just more games from Cryptic to try and "look" decent
    #WithoutRespectWeReject
  • warmaker001bwarmaker001b Member Posts: 9,204 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    This Legendary Pack is designed to fail. The only KDF Legendary Ships to date, and both are blatantly designed to suck.
    XzRTofz.gif
  • orion0029orion0029 Member Posts: 1,122 Bug Hunter
    I am rather curious to know if the Kamarag options are unique to the Legengary ship or if they are going to be unlocked for any Vor'cha variant (without the need to purchase this overpriced bundle)...

    Though, I'm not gonna hold my breath.

    The Excelsior looks to be actually decent. I am scratching my head as to why the trait from the Earhart escort is included. However, since that trait makes more sense on the Excelsior I should be scratching my head as to why it was included with the Earhart in the first place. This 'upgrade' isn't enough for me to bother upgrading from my trusty ole T5-U Excelsior. :smile:

    I am not a raider pilot so I have no opinions about the B'rel, though at a glance I think the Temer would be a better raider. Price is better too!

    Personally, I quite disapprove of the marketing tactics involved in this bundle. The Legendary Ambassador would have to be downright amazing for me to even consider dropping zen on this.
  • ankesorgcallitriankesorgcallitri Member Posts: 7 Arc User
    The problem with bundles like this its that if you break it down u get more value then the asking price , in this case just to point out : not counting the ships u get
    - 2 coupons thats 2x3000 zen
    - 6 ship slots thats 3 packs of 2 so 3x500 zen
    - 6 t6x tokens 2 packs of 3 so 2x2000 zen
    - 11 ultimate upgrades , these arent sold but its reasonable to say 500 zen per unit so 11x500
    - 11 keys thats 1125 zen
    - 11 rnd packs (not sure if the ones give can have promo ship packs in them lets assume they are not) so 3x4 is 3x1000 zen
    comes to over 20000 zen and this is just without the ships , this i snot me defending these marketing tactics just stating a fact
    the ultimate upgrade tokens specially come in handy considering we all have a kdf recruit to grind 50 endevour levels with ...
    Could have been a great bundle but ... i cant figure out that they secretly hate the KDF or they are just this incompetent
    Even after all this i hope that the last ship is a KDF and its a MW D7 , in that were to be true i would buy it in a hearbeat.
  • fallenkezef#4581 fallenkezef Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    lianthelia wrote: »
    I can't say I'm surprised,
    I’m still saying the 6.5 turn rate is misprint.

    It just doesn’t make any sense. Cryptic always releases blogs full of errors, I expect it to be corrected.

    It's simple...Cryptic plausible deniability. They can "say" they made the ship better but people will still complain then blame the players and there is no pleasing them...further excuses to blame why they no longer make Klingon ships

    Brel = Slight upgrade* from Fleet Brel
    Vorcha = upgraded in some ways from the fleet Vorcha but downgraded in others
    Excelsior = obvious improvement over the Fleet Excelsior

    ((*slight upgrade but clearly inferior to the anniversary raider))

    Just more games from Cryptic to try and "look" decent

    What makes it all the worse is the aniversary BoP, which we get for free from a grind, is better than the legendat B'rel.

    Hell I'm sitting here looking at the legendary Warbird for my Rom alt and comparing it to this joke of a B'rel.

  • lianthelialianthelia Member Posts: 7,714 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    (flame/troll post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
    #WithoutRespectWeReject
  • cbrjwrrcbrjwrr Member Posts: 2,782 Arc User
    I have to agree that it's a disappointment.

    My initial response was "ok, Cryptic must have heard the complaints, so they'll perhaps make it an equivalent of the Legendary Gal-X".

    I wasn't far off; ship to ship the turn rate post-nerf is still better, and given a straight choice between 1.45 hull/6.5 turn rate and 1.5 hull/5.5 turn rate (or, 8.5 turn rate at a cost of two consoles) I would take the first. Inertia is better. Boff seating is... well Command is a downgrade on Intel, but then a Lt. Miracle Worker is more useful than a Lt.Cmdr. Command. So, yeah. But keeping the Cmdr. Temporal/Lt. Miracle Worker would have been so much better, and that this got nerfed is bad. Battle cloak is an improvement over a basic cloak, and you have the console equipped to get the cloak on the Gal-X anyway, which makes the Vor'cha much better there. Hangar Bays however, the Vor'cha has none, so that is a favour for the Gal-X. Gal-X does have the spinal lance, and the Vor'cha does not. On the whole, if the goal was to make a KDF Gal-X equivalent, this feels like a missed opportunity.

    Compared to the Fleet Vor'cha; as noted earlier, losing a Commander Temporal for Commander Command is a straight downgrade, which the Universal Miracle Worker seat only partially makes up for. As that seat was a Lt. Tac before, the Universal Miracle Worker is great. The turn rate is a terrible nerf; from 10, to 6.5. Only the Bortasqu variants are as bad among Klingon Battlecruisers, and while they nerfed the Excelsior too, that went from 8 to 7. Going to a 5/3 layout is an improvement, as is giving it a battle cloak. Gaining the Kamarag visuals is obviously a major plus. On the whole it's an improvement, but the nerfs are disappointing.

    If they had kept the Temporal seat and not nerfed the turn rate, it would be really good.


    So far, with this bundle:

    B'rel - the freebie anniversary ship is better on stats, and so as a ship the new B'rel is dead on arrival. The only redeeming thing for me is the Enterprise-era skin.
    Excelsior - I never liked the ship that much anyway..
    Vor'cha - I could like it on merit, but it is a missed opportunity.
    Ambassador - we only know it is coming.
    The extras are a liability in many ways.
  • questeriusquesterius Member Posts: 7,865 Arc User
    Trait feels like a KDF variant of "History will remember"
    This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
  • nightkennightken Member Posts: 2,808 Arc User
    questerius wrote: »
    Trait feels like a KDF variant of "History will remember"

    pretty much... on the kdf ship that gives history will remember even. they really trying to hard to not sell this pack, if the hated the idea that much they could have not bothered, a pilot b'rel only pack at a semi reasonable price would have been better then this nonsense. they've basically talked me out of buying it even though I have most of the zen already.

    if I stop posting it doesn't make you right it. just means I don't have enough rum to continue interacting with you.
  • fallenkezef#4581 fallenkezef Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    from the start "year of the Klingon" has been "last year of any KDF development".

    This pack is the final TRIBBLE you to KDF players
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,223 Arc User
    I look at the bright side even though it’s hard to find:

    For the price they ask me to pay here every bad ship stat they offer in this pack makes it all the easier to not even think about getting it.

    So far so good I’d say.
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