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2021 Anniversary Legendary Bundle officially announced

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  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,019 Arc User
    edited February 1
    garaffe wrote: »
    D. Where is your data?
    The only remote viable source of said data, what Cryptic themselves have said in various interviews and live streams.
    and I knew that if the sales were not there, we wouldn't get more Rom content in the future
    Except you didn't know this, because this is entirely untrue. People have been saying that no one buys Rom, or KDF, ships for years, and yet Cryptic has kept making them. The entire idea that if you don't buy them all, Cryptic is just going to stop all production of them, is a baseless conspiracy theory used to backhandedly justify your own purchase in a way that makes it the fault of someone else, instead of your own.
    what is the value of the bundle TO ME?
    Largely irrelevant to the actual conversation at hand here. Not personally wanting certain things in a bundle doesn't mean said bundle is a "ripoff", or "overpriced".

    There have been bundles of all sorts of things in games, and real life, that had plenty of things I didn't care about. That doesn't mean I run around screaming "price gouging", "over priced", "rip off!". It's entirely possible to look at something, and understand why the things in it are valued the way they are, even if you don't care about them.

    Using sensationalist language like that just makes devs less willing to listen to feedback on said items because it isn't constructive criticism, and amount to whining.
  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 53,032 Community Moderator
    I would like to remind everyone to please keep it civil. Expressing one's opinions is welcome, but lets keep the flamethrowers in the armory.

    I know subjects like this can be a bit heated, but lets keep it cool in here.
    66998372863950ee98cf7da9786e2ea9-db80k0m.png
    I can't take it anymore! Could everyone just chill out for two seconds before something CRAZY happens again?!
    The nut who actually ground out a Delta Pack, Temporal Pack, and Gamma Pack
    The resident forum voice of reason (I HAZ FORUM REP! YAY!)
  • doctorstegidoctorstegi Member Posts: 694 Arc User
    You would think by all the negative feedback they got on several different platforms like facebook, twitter, reddit, here they would I don't know try to communicate with their player base. I guess they simply don't care though because their sales trend told them it will sell lol.
    C-Store Inc. is still looking for active members on the fed side. If you don't have a fleet feel free to contact me in game @stegi.
  • postagepaidpostagepaid Member Posts: 2,777 Arc User
    Legendary bundles allowing gamblebox ships to be account wide are why I raise an eyebrow in a quizzical, spocklike manner at the upcoming meta reward being a gamblebox ship for just a single character.
  • therealblackkaostherealblackkaos Member Posts: 53 Arc User
    I’m not a fan of the bundle. Not only because it doesn’t have enough KDF ships but because of the fluff added. However, I’m glad that they did make improvements to the KDF story arcs and visuals. If it was all KDF or at least had at least 2-5 more ships I’d have been interested in it. I main a Fed and KDF so having some Legendary ships for both is a good starting point for me. However, I’m not a fan of any Fed ships prior to TNG so the ones in this pack don’t interest me in the least. Both my mains incidentally use the multi faction Temporal Dreadnought as their ship since it works for my play style. Now, if they make a Legendary Temporal bundle they’ll have my attention!
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 1,757 Bug Hunter
    Legendary bundles allowing gamblebox ships to be account wide are why I raise an eyebrow in a quizzical, spocklike manner at the upcoming meta reward being a gamblebox ship for just a single character.

    Yes but that has always been the case, and continues to be so.

    Still I welcome the upcoming meta reward, and very hopefully look to earn it.
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  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 9,245 Arc User
    edited February 2
    (flame/troll post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
  • faxmachine#9639 faxmachine Member Posts: 22 Arc User
    Largely irrelevant to the actual conversation at hand here. Not personally wanting certain things in a bundle doesn't mean said bundle is a "ripoff", or "overpriced".

    Hey Mr. Pot? Meet Mr. Kettle:
    To be perfectly honest, I've stopped caring about new ships for any faction in STO for awhile now....As it stands, the whole "legendary" gimmick just seems like something Cryptic is doing because they have pretty much mined out all the canon ship designs people care about, and the well is running dry.

    Someone else doesn't want something and calls it a 'ripoff' or 'overpriced'? You get a mad on.

    You don't want something and call it a gimmick? Um yeah.

    We see what you are, mate. We see you.
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,685 Arc User
    You would think by all the negative feedback they got on several different platforms like facebook, twitter, reddit, here they would I don't know try to communicate with their player base. I guess they simply don't care though because their sales trend told them it will sell lol.

    Except the PRIMARY feedback they care about/look at most is:

    "How well did >X< sell?.../How much money/ROI/profit did it generate?...
    ^^^
    That's the main 'feedback' that generates how they design and market these special 'ship packs'. Period.

    STO is a money making business and money made is all that really drives the development of anything for the game. Yes, they do spend money to make money and have a number of 'loss leader' events (like the years long ones that this time will net you a 'free' Lockbox/Promo ship <--- Which is a pretty big monetary concession from Cryptic, (lock box ship keys are probably their LARGEST source of income - either to players who use them directly or sell them for EC to buy a ship they desire) - but I think they believe this will bring more players to the game/give existing players a major reason to consistently log on and play the related content.

    But yeah is the end profit generated and ROI are the only real feedback they pay attention to.

    For example if the Lockbox/Master Key paradigm wasn't SO PROFITABLE - it would be gone from STO faster that you could say - "Engage!". It remains because it generates A LOT of profit, despite all the player outcry over Lockboxes.
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 9,245 Arc User
    You would think by all the negative feedback they got on several different platforms like facebook, twitter, reddit, here they would I don't know try to communicate with their player base. I guess they simply don't care though because their sales trend told them it will sell lol.

    Sad thing is, I already see people salivating over the legendary Excelsior. People will buy this pack for that ship despite all the outcry and it will be a big success and they will continue as always. Because money talks...and despite the complaints...many will still spend and that says more than any complaint post.
  • garaffegaraffe Member Posts: 891 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    You would think by all the negative feedback they got on several different platforms like facebook, twitter, reddit, here they would I don't know try to communicate with their player base. I guess they simply don't care though because their sales trend told them it will sell lol.

    Sad thing is, I already see people salivating over the legendary Excelsior. People will buy this pack for that ship despite all the outcry and it will be a big success and they will continue as always. Because money talks...and despite the complaints...many will still spend and that says more than any complaint post.

    This is precisely what is happening and will continue to happen for years to come. It is due to this fact that this is no longer the game for me. I haven't gotten on to just play the game for months. All I do is get on to get my daily event progress. There is simply no new content that is of any interest to me, including ships, that isn't stuffed behind a mega pay wall. I can hurdle over a small to moderate pay wall, but not the mega pay walls that cryptic keeps pumping out.
  • avoozuulavoozuul Member Posts: 2,869 Arc User
    I'm hoping they will make it buyable separately even for a limited time.
  • nrobbiecnrobbiec Member Posts: 887 Arc User
    Price we pay to keep the game free I guess
  • saurializardsaurializard Member Posts: 3,632 Arc User
    edited February 2
    Ah yes, of course we got the "they said it themselves it was a success" excuse.

    "We conducted an investigation by ourselves and found out we actually did nothing wrong. In fact, we did everything right. Case closed."

    We live in a world when one one-word tweet from a big name person can send investors from other companies into panic and disturb a whole market, and I'm expected to believe an average-sized game studio owned by a big publisher can freely admit they messed up with their prices and expectations on a public platform?
    #TASforSTO
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  • sinn74sinn74 Member Posts: 1,149 Arc User
    A.Nothing about that is disingenuous. All of that was factual, from what Cryptic have said on their livestreams.
    This is patently false. They have stated that, between the legendary bundle WITH the garbage, and the legendary bundle WITHOUT the garbage, people overwhelmingly bought the one without the garbage.
    B. The opposite of people buying a legendary bundle with all the fluff would be... that people bought the legendary pack with all the fluff? Uhhh.... do you know what the word opposite means? Because you just said the opposite of what I said, would be the thing I just said. They have also never given hard numbers on what pack sold more, so we couldn't know either way.
    I stated that the opposite of buying the legendary bundle with just ships would be buying it with the garbage attached. You seem to think the Romulan one was a better point, so you just inserted that with improper context, and you knew it.
    There was a choice in the legendary bundle. With garbage and without. No one wanted the one with garbage. Why are you pretending this didnt happen?
    C. The term FOMO means "fear of missing out" and refers to "anxiety that an exciting or interesting event may currently be happening elsewhere, often aroused by posts seen on social media." Nothing about Kael "going on a rant" about there being less possible future Rom ships has anything to do with FOMO(which he never did in the first place so). I refer you back to my previous post about the misuse of terminology.
    "If this doesnt sell well initially [an event] then it wont look good for future offerings [a possible future event]"
    And this did, in fact, happen. Why are you misrepresenting this entire ordeal? If you have to lie in order to make your argument, your argument sucks.
    D. If people didn't want it they wouldn't buy the ROM/DSC bundles they wouldn't have, and if people didn't want the fluff attached to it, then they wouldn't have used it. But they did buy it, and they did use it. Nor did any threat of there not being future ships affects that, because no such threat was ever made.
    This was said on a livestream. Look it up, if you actually think it didnt happen (it did). Again, people said they didnt want the garbage then, too. Now youre lying on behalf of others, as well.
    E. And the C-store value of that other stuff is equivalent to the price they had been selling many of those things individually for years. So if its OK so tell ships at 3,000 zen, and things like experiment ship upgrade token 3 packs at 2,000 zen, but selling a pack of a ship with a token pack for 4,900 zen is somehow a rip off? Because that it what you are saying.
    Forcing someone to buy a bunch of stuff they have stated (and proven with purchase history) they dont want, in order to get something they DO want, is a ripoff, yes. Are you saying it isnt?
    No one cared about the legendary bundle version that included all the garbage, they just said they didnt want that, and would buy the version without it instead.
    This is why the choice was removed.
    F. Pointing out that your argument doesn't make sense, or is wrong, isn't defending anything. Its pointing out your argument is bad.
    The fact that youre revising history in order for this to make sense to you, and also attempting to force this delusion on others is what makes no sense.
    Also, Cryptic has never claimed they can't make content because they are "short handed" in fact...

    Between the period starting from the end of Agents of Yesterday, with the launch of the first major post AoY patch, Artifacts, in October 2016, to the day before the release of ViL in June 2018, there was a 20 month time span where we saw
    • 9 new story missions. An average of 1 mission every 2.22 months
    • 82 ships. An average of 4.1/month
    • 7 new TFOs. 1/2.85 months
    • zero new patrols
    • zero content revamps
    • Two major new systems/QoL updates. Those being the kit revamp, and the S13 balance update.
    Since the Discovery content started in October 2018, and going all the way out to the next patch, which is stated to happen this spring(so May or June), a period of 31 months, there has been
    • 15 new story missions. An average of 1 every 2.06 months. A 7.2% increase in release speed over previous.
    • 107 new ships. An average of 3.45/month. A 15.85% decrease over previous.
    • 9 new TFOs. 1/3.44 months. A 20% decrease over previous.
    • 8 new patrols. Technically an infinity increase.
    • Revamps to 7 TFOs, 8 Delta Quadrant patrols, some of the early Federation Klingon War missions, and the entire YoK revamp content(ships, First City, all the early KDF story arcs, Klingon faces, hairs, uniforms, targs, Fek'Ihri, etc)
    • Many new systems/QoL updates. RTFOs, endeavors, the patrol system revamp, the event revamp, the T6 rep update, scaling T6 ship update, the trait/loadout update, them bringing down the walls between Rom and allied ships, them bringing down the wall between Fed/KDF ships, the fill all button, the salvage all tab, item stacking increases, admiralty cards being auto claimed, search filters being added to inventory and Zstore
    Overall, we have actually seen an increase in content, be it story missions, patrols, content revamps, and new systems/systems updates, compared to the previous time span between expansions. Especially when it comes to systems updates, which are generally the hardest/most expensive ones. The only things we have seen less of are ships, and TFOs.

    Not to mention, Cryptic has mentioned that, while they lost some people to the development of Magic, they have gotten new people to fill those roles, so their staff size is the same as it was previously. So the idea of them being "short handed" is wrong also.

    This is a shot at apologists and "shills" who use the excuse of bUt tHeYrE sHorT HanDed, which is a pure coping mechanism.
  • obionekanobyobionekanoby Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2
    (flame/troll post removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,019 Arc User
    edited February 2
    Someone else doesn't want something and calls it a 'ripoff' or 'overpriced'? You get a mad on.

    You don't want something and call it a gimmick? Um yeah.

    We see what you are, mate. We see you.
    What exactly was this post supposed to show? A gimmick is anything intended to attract attention, publicity or business. Which is exactly what remaking an already existing ship, and slapping the "legendary", title on it, to boost sales is. That is neither an inherent negative, or untrue about the situation. Unlike saying selling something for less then the total cost of its individual pieces is a "rip off" or "price gouging" simply because you don't like/want certain part of it.

    (response to redacted material removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 863 Arc User
    edited February 2
    nrobbiec wrote: »
    Price we pay to keep the game free I guess

    But see, that's another thing that makes no sense: why not go for smaller transactions? More people would buy stuff, if the prices - and the items/bundles sold - were smaller.

    Say, for example: everything cosmetic! Canon weapons with different colors/visuals, paint jobs for ships, clothes (even separately instead of a complete set), vanity shields/deflectors/engines.
    People usally go for stuff like that because the prices are generally way more affordable and many loves to mix and max things, to make their characters (and their ships) unique to them - or as unique as they can make them.
    Just look at what the population is: go around ESD, DS9 and any other social map and you will see a multitude of unique characters.

    The game is free and we need to pay to keep the lights on, true. But make it so that the people can actually do this. Especially after the year of hell we all had it should stand to reason that smaller bundles, more reasonably priced and not bloated with stuff people don't want are the way to go. Not this monster of a pack that costs just as much as the other but offer way, way less.
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • obionekanobyobionekanoby Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2
    (flame/troll/threat removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
  • obionekanobyobionekanoby Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2
    (flame/troll/threat removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
  • obionekanobyobionekanoby Member Posts: 18 Arc User
    edited February 2
    (flame/troll/threat removed) - darkbladejk
    Post edited by darkbladejk on
  • somtaawkharsomtaawkhar Member Posts: 9,019 Arc User
    edited February 2
    But see, that's another thing that makes no sense: why not go for smaller transactions? More people would buy stuff, if the prices - and the items/bundles sold - were smaller.
    For the same reason they don't make Mudd's Market cheaper. For the same reason lots of real world brands aren't priced cheaper even though they easily could be.

    The whole point is that not everyone is supposed to be able to get it, as the idea of a "premium" or "legendary" thing stops being such if everyone can get it easily.

    This is why these things can not sell a lot, but still succeed, and surpass, in reaching the sales metrics the devs expect. They don't expect most people to buy it in the first place, nor did they ever intended for it.

    Its like buying a Prada purse , or designer jeans. The whole point is that the company logo is what makes it desirable, not that its actually a purse, or a pair of jeans, made with materials that cost that much.

    They already have hundreds of ships, and other various bundles, in the Zen store to cover that market or cheaper/more accessible items.

    I find the whole concept of chasing after such things silly myself, but its proven to work.
  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 2,814 Community Moderator
    Folks in here need to simmer down big time. If I see more of what I just removed, this thread will be getting locked. Different people are going to have different opinions on this pack, be they positive or negative. Someone having a different opinion than you doesn't make them automatically wrong, nor does it make you automatically right. Not everyone is going to agree with you, nor are you going to agree with everyone on everything. If you like/dislike this bundle you are entitled to that opinion.

    Now a couple of things that need to be said. We don't have access to the sales numbers like Cryptic does. Unlike the community here that can only guess based off potential community polls or similar, Cryptic knows every sale that is made. In business sometimes items you think will sell very well don't sell, and items you wouldn't think would sell well in a million years end up being the ones that actually sell very well. To put it bluntly, anyone outside of Cryptic claiming to know what Cryptic's sales numbers actually are, is talking out of their aft shuttlebay. Unless you have insider knowledge of the company, or they tell you specifically, none knows the true numbers outside of Cryptic.

    The "FOMO" tactic is a commons sales tactic with companies that has been used for generations to drum up business and try to get folks to buy it now. Sometimes the fear of missing the sale is warranted, sometimes it's not.

    At the end of the day, regardless of what tactics Cryptic uses to try to get people to buy something, you as the end buyer still have control over your wallet and whether you choose to open that wallet or not. If you choose to invest, you bear responsibility for making that investment. They didn't force you to make that investment. If you think it's a bad deal, then don't open your wallet.

    I will say I'm not a fan of the single ships + fluff bundles we've been getting lately, but if that's what sells, then that's what they will make.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

    Star Trek Online volunteer Community Moderator
  • kurtronkurtron Member Posts: 60 Arc User
    Last year was, supposedly, the second best year money-wise since the game started... so, I ask: where has the money gone? Because I'm sorry, but I don't see it being reinvested in the game.

    That should be obvious, it all gets funneled up to Perfect World, with just enough invested in the game to barely keep it going.
  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,730 Arc User
    kurtron wrote: »
    Last year was, supposedly, the second best year money-wise since the game started... so, I ask: where has the money gone? Because I'm sorry, but I don't see it being reinvested in the game.

    That should be obvious, it all gets funneled up to Perfect World, with just enough invested in the game to barely keep it going.

    Gold star.
    Tza0PEl.png
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,685 Arc User
    kurtron wrote: »
    Last year was, supposedly, the second best year money-wise since the game started... so, I ask: where has the money gone? Because I'm sorry, but I don't see it being reinvested in the game.

    That should be obvious, it all gets funneled up to Perfect World, with just enough invested in the game to barely keep it going.

    Yeah about that - were that the case, I doubt we'd be getting actual Star Trek actors for VO. That doesn't come cheap, so to claim stuff like that is: "just enough invested to barely keep it going is both disingenuous and inaccurate. Whether it's because of cryptic or PWE - there is a sizeable chunk of change spent by the developers/operators of this game (probably because they see it makes it much more profitable in the long run) -- but yeah considering the Star trek actors they continue to bring on board for VO - they SPEND money on keeping the game going far beyond 'barely keeping it going'.

    (And for the record, I'm no fan of the recent 'Bundles' or in Cryptic's/PWE's recent marketing tactics - but yeah they reinvest a sizable chunk back into the game, as demonstrated by the consistent use of actual Star Trek actors for VO -- and no CBS ain't footing that bill for them.)
    Formerly known as Armsman from June 2008 to June 20, 2012
    TOS_Connie_Sig_final9550Pop.jpg
    PWE ARC Drone says: "Your STO forum community as you have known it is ended...Display names are irrelevant...Any further sense of community is irrelevant...Resistance is futile...You will be assimilated..."
  • sthe91sthe91 Member Posts: 3,070 Arc User
    kurtron wrote: »
    Last year was, supposedly, the second best year money-wise since the game started... so, I ask: where has the money gone? Because I'm sorry, but I don't see it being reinvested in the game.

    That should be obvious, it all gets funneled up to Perfect World, with just enough invested in the game to barely keep it going.

    And you know this how?
    Where there is a Will, there is a Way.
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