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📢 The Reddit/Twitter dev tracker thread 📢

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  • phoenixc#0738 phoenixc Member Posts: 5,459 Arc User
    Facebook, Twitter and forums have been around for a while, and so have community managers. I suspect that they do what they do because it works, and I can see why it works. It doesn't matter if they "promote" the forums as the way to discuss STO in the forums because it just won't be working. Because not all people are like that, going to forums regularly to get up to date and then jump into some discussions and going in deep. It's just a high barrier of entry, and it requires deeper engagement than they are ready for.

    A tweet, or a facebook post - that just appears in your stream ,and you an read it, ignore it, reply to it, reshare it with others.

    And of course, there are also technical limitations. I can't even visit these forums during my work day, because gaming sites are blocked by the company's firewall. I can go to reddit, twitter, or facebook because these are pretty universal communication platforms and if you block them as well, you might reduce distractions for your workers, but in many jobs, you might also hinder their ability to do their job and stay up to date in their profession.

    That blocking of gaming sites is a hit or miss thing though, while a lot do routinely block gaming sites, a lot of businesses don't know the url of every gaming site around and most don't care anyway if it is not a browser based game that can be launched from that site. Often they just block the websites of the biggest, most popular ones like WoW and Final Fantasy and don't bother blocking the smaller ones like STO unless some incident brings one of them to their attention.

    Many depend more on general security measures like preventing unauthorized software from being installed to keep people from actually gaming, and posted rules/disciplinary actions to keep employees from "cyberslacking" in the various forums.

    They are more likely to block the big social media sites like Twitter, Facebook and Reddit instead, and allow exceptions only for departments who's operation may involve them, like an advertising or customer service department, (in fact, that is exactly the way the last place I worked did it). If you wanted to tweet anything you had to go outside and use your phone.
  • fred26291#2759 fred26291 Member Posts: 1,260 Arc User
    I am one of those people who do not use social media.
    I have a facebook page, and for as often as I go on it, its like I dont have one at all period.
    As to the devs prefering reddit and twitter, I for one will not chase updates across multiple social media platforms, I go to one platform and thats it period end, so tell me the single one I should go on and I will otherwise its this one.
    Also, any update that is not posted here by a dev is considered rumor till it either happens in game or posted here by a dev.
  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    Treat all branches of the STO community equally.

    Good inspiring sentiment for all facets of life not just STO, but far too often lousy implementation.

  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    A quick note: for the record I agree that they should be posted info here. I just want to be clear about that point, so no one is confused by my following comments.

    That said, this is not some 'social' issue about 'equality'. We all have access to the same internet. We all have the choice to use twitter, or reddit, or not. No one is being denied access to those platforms because of any kind of social injustice. And even if those website are blocked when you are at work...well, you are at work. You can still use them when you are at home.

    So yes, I completely agree the company should be posting info to it's own forums. But no, it's not because of 'equality' or anything like that. I hope that makes sense.


    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

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  • ambassadorkael#6946 ambassadorkael Member, Administrator Posts: 2,673 Community Manager
    A quick note: for the record I agree that they should be posted info here. I just want to be clear about that point, so no one is confused by my following comments.

    That said, this is not some 'social' issue about 'equality'. We all have access to the same internet. We all have the choice to use twitter, or reddit, or not. No one is being denied access to those platforms because of any kind of social injustice. And even if those website are blocked when you are at work...well, you are at work. You can still use them when you are at home.

    So yes, I completely agree the company should be posting info to it's own forums. But no, it's not because of 'equality' or anything like that. I hope that makes sense.

    These are the official forums. The STO subreddit is the official subreddit. The STO social media accounts are the official social media accounts. If they are all official outlets, then inequality applies when one or more of them are given official attention and others are neglected, specially when Cryptic KNOWS that not everyone on the forums uses reddit or social media, and not everyone on reddit and social media uses the forums.

    If this were some third party forum that Cryptic happened to post on at one time and stopped when they got official outlets to use, I would not be taking the position I have taken. But this is one of their official outlets. The closest to home in fact. It's hosted on their own network. It uses the same criteria as logging into the game uses. While I initially held that this should be where news originates and then gets linked to on Reddit or social media, I've shifted a bit to say that the forums should be used in equilibrium with other outlets so no matter where a community member is coming from, the information is available.

    That is the equality I refer to. The forums don't need to be treated with more priority than the other outlets. But they should not be treated with any less of one either. I mean, we're talking about copying and pasting information to jut one more place. We're talking maybe thirty seconds... I don't think it's an unfair thing to ask for.

    For what it's worth - I agree. As you may have noticed, I'm trying to take more time to be on here, lately. The main issue is how much easier it is to respond to things on Reddit or Twitter. I realize that's not a good excuse, however, and I'm genuinely going to try and be on here to answer questions and such more often.

    Please do keep in mind, though, that I wear a million hats and am not anywhere where players congregate as much as I'd like.

  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    A quick note: for the record I agree that they should be posted info here. I just want to be clear about that point, so no one is confused by my following comments.

    That said, this is not some 'social' issue about 'equality'. We all have access to the same internet. We all have the choice to use twitter, or reddit, or not. No one is being denied access to those platforms because of any kind of social injustice. And even if those website are blocked when you are at work...well, you are at work. You can still use them when you are at home.

    So yes, I completely agree the company should be posting info to it's own forums. But no, it's not because of 'equality' or anything like that. I hope that makes sense.

    These are the official forums. The STO subreddit is the official subreddit. The STO social media accounts are the official social media accounts. If they are all official outlets, then inequality applies when one or more of them are given official attention and others are neglected, specially when Cryptic KNOWS that not everyone on the forums uses reddit or social media, and not everyone on reddit and social media uses the forums.

    If this were some third party forum that Cryptic happened to post on at one time and stopped when they got official outlets to use, I would not be taking the position I have taken. But this is one of their official outlets. The closest to home in fact. It's hosted on their own network. It uses the same criteria as logging into the game uses. While I initially held that this should be where news originates and then gets linked to on Reddit or social media, I've shifted a bit to say that the forums should be used in equilibrium with other outlets so no matter where a community member is coming from, the information is available.

    That is the equality I refer to. The forums don't need to be treated with more priority than the other outlets. But they should not be treated with any less of one either. I mean, we're talking about copying and pasting information to jut one more place. We're talking maybe thirty seconds... I don't think it's an unfair thing to ask for.

    For what it's worth - I agree. As you may have noticed, I'm trying to take more time to be on here, lately. The main issue is how much easier it is to respond to things on Reddit or Twitter. I realize that's not a good excuse, however, and I'm genuinely going to try and be on here to answer questions and such more often.

    Please do keep in mind, though, that I wear a million hats and am not anywhere where players congregate as much as I'd like.

    I appreciate the gent reaching-out & corresponding with us briefly about the topic & offering his perspective too. Probably I'm a minority, but some of us might have a real disdain for social media sites. Do I expect massive change from now on? No, but hopefully The official forums will be included more in the future as well.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,165 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    .

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • szerontzurszerontzur Member Posts: 2,723 Arc User
    A quick note: for the record I agree that they should be posted info here. I just want to be clear about that point, so no one is confused by my following comments.

    That said, this is not some 'social' issue about 'equality'. We all have access to the same internet. We all have the choice to use twitter, or reddit, or not. No one is being denied access to those platforms because of any kind of social injustice. And even if those website are blocked when you are at work...well, you are at work. You can still use them when you are at home.

    So yes, I completely agree the company should be posting info to it's own forums. But no, it's not because of 'equality' or anything like that. I hope that makes sense.

    These are the official forums. The STO subreddit is the official subreddit. The STO social media accounts are the official social media accounts. If they are all official outlets, then inequality applies when one or more of them are given official attention and others are neglected, specially when Cryptic KNOWS that not everyone on the forums uses reddit or social media, and not everyone on reddit and social media uses the forums.

    If this were some third party forum that Cryptic happened to post on at one time and stopped when they got official outlets to use, I would not be taking the position I have taken. But this is one of their official outlets. The closest to home in fact. It's hosted on their own network. It uses the same criteria as logging into the game uses. While I initially held that this should be where news originates and then gets linked to on Reddit or social media, I've shifted a bit to say that the forums should be used in equilibrium with other outlets so no matter where a community member is coming from, the information is available.

    That is the equality I refer to. The forums don't need to be treated with more priority than the other outlets. But they should not be treated with any less of one either. I mean, we're talking about copying and pasting information to jut one more place. We're talking maybe thirty seconds... I don't think it's an unfair thing to ask for.

    For what it's worth - I agree. As you may have noticed, I'm trying to take more time to be on here, lately. The main issue is how much easier it is to respond to things on Reddit or Twitter. I realize that's not a good excuse, however, and I'm genuinely going to try and be on here to answer questions and such more often.

    Please do keep in mind, though, that I wear a million hats and am not anywhere where players congregate as much as I'd like.

    Cheers. I appreciate the effort.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    Good god, adding MORE unwanted junk is not the solution to the bundle problem.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • jcswwjcsww Member Posts: 6,789 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    Good god, adding MORE unwanted junk is not the solution to the bundle problem.

    Exactly! It reminds me a lot of when Q was laughing at Picard for not getting the many hints he gave him during the trail of humanity.
    Post edited by jcsww on
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,918 Arc User
    The adding of Lobi is, in my opinion, a very 'tone deaf' response.

    People are complaining that all the bloat is inflating the cost of the bundle, they opted to alleviate that by adding a little more bloat and not examining the idea of cost adjustment. I think most of us agree that the response we would have preferred would have been a removal of items from the bundle along with an appropriate cost reduction.

    Adding 500 Lobi does nothing for most of us. It's just a 'throw in' for a bundle we don't plan to buy anyway. I am really anxious to see how many of these ships I actually see in game once the pack drops.

    Insert witty signature line here.
  • eladonwarps#6040 eladonwarps Member Posts: 231 Arc User
    If you check the Tweets themselves for the replies though, it seems that the Lobi did sweeten the pot for quite a few players. Not really for me, but just saying.
    Call me "El," she/her only. I love my wife and I don't care who knows it!
  • strathkinstrathkin Member Posts: 2,666 Bug Hunter
    reyan01 wrote: »
    The adding of Lobi is, in my opinion, a very 'tone deaf' response.

    People are complaining that all the bloat is inflating the cost of the bundle, they opted to alleviate that by adding a little more bloat and not examining the idea of cost adjustment. I think most of us agree that the response we would have preferred would have been a removal of items from the bundle along with an appropriate cost reduction.

    Adding 500 Lobi does nothing for most of us. It's just a 'throw in' for a bundle we don't plan to buy anyway. I am really anxious to see how many of these ships I actually see in game once the pack drops.

    Sadly, I suspect there'll be rather a lot of them.

    yup...but still not me.

    Perhaps, yet I really think this Anniversary Bundle was specifically geared toward's NEW or Returning Players, though it does have value to a wider audience however.
    0zxlclk.png
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    reyan01 wrote: »
    The adding of Lobi is, in my opinion, a very 'tone deaf' response.

    People are complaining that all the bloat is inflating the cost of the bundle, they opted to alleviate that by adding a little more bloat and not examining the idea of cost adjustment. I think most of us agree that the response we would have preferred would have been a removal of items from the bundle along with an appropriate cost reduction.

    Adding 500 Lobi does nothing for most of us. It's just a 'throw in' for a bundle we don't plan to buy anyway. I am really anxious to see how many of these ships I actually see in game once the pack drops.

    Sadly, I suspect there'll be rather a lot of them.

    yup...but still not me.

    Perhaps, yet I really think this Anniversary Bundle was specifically geared toward's NEW or Returning Players, though it does have value to a wider audience however.

    Oh for sure. After all, a new player won't be able to really tell if the price asked for it it's worth it, therefore it's way easier to sell them a bloated up bundle for a ridiculous price than it is with veteran players.
    As for the "wider audience"... I highly doubt it. This bundle have little to no value for everyone. Now, if the ships were to be sold in a ships-only bundle at a reasonable price, things would be different.
    But they're not, so...
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    Kael's response to a Reddit thread about "Cryptic's selective logic about the forums/reddit being a vocal minority":
    Lemme see if I can help make this make sense.

    Tl;dr: everything is on a case by case basis.

    Every piece of feedback is collated by me or by QA and passed on to the right people, whether that's production or the individual developers (or, in the case of bug reports, verified then passed on). In the case of things like the forums/reddit overwhelmingly saying, "I won't buy that," well that's a huge cause for concern and something that we talked about when it cropped up last year for the ten ship bundle. But...in the end, it sold really well, and people still ask every day when it will be available next.

    Similarly: players on here posit a lot that if we just put every ship in the C-store, or if we sold bundles that were only for Klingons/Romulans/Dominion, we would sell a lot. The sales data doesn't support this. Players don't come out in droves to buy single ships, and non-Fed ships don't sell well.

    Does this mean folks on here and the forums are liars? Of course not. It DOES mean that there are a lot of folks who disagree on what they want, and simply don't post here. And if we were truly cynical, we wouldn't make ships for other races now that anybody can fly anything, but the team works really hard to make sure things like the second Recon Bundle get out, even if they aren't as giant sellers, because we want to make sure the people who really DO want the alien experience can still have it. It's also why we've spent a bunch of time updating the Romulan and Klingon starting experiences, in the hopes that we'll get more players interested in those races.

    Now, as for the stats. Once again, huge outcry. One again, reported to the folks who can do something about it. And in this case, Geko and Borticus took a look at the stats and said, "Yeah, that's valid, we can improve these in these ways," and then they went and did that. Geko specifically asked me to go through and collate every piece of feedback about the ships' stats to present to them, after I brought up my concerns in a Leads meeting. Which I did.

    So, the long and short is: every time there's an outcry or upset players here, I report on it and we discuss it. The response changes each time. If there's validity to it, or something we can do (adding Lobi to the bundle, for example - by the way, you didn't hear it from me, but 500 Lobi WILL be enough to buy a new ship the weekend the bundle goes live, so that's now a six-seven ship bundle, depending on when you buy), we execute on it. It would be stupid not to listen to you guys, because you're our most passionate fans and we like you, even when you make weird memes of Geko or call for me to be fired every day. :) I've said over and over that I love this community because I do. And we DO listen. But that doesn't always mean that we will do every single thing that you ask, because that would also be a bad idea. We have to look at the whole picture, including data from folks you might never see on here.

    Does that make sense?

    My biggest disappointment with this is that their sales data indicates non-bundles don't sell, but big bundles like this do 😔 I really, REALLY hope this bundle is different when it comes to sales, cause otherwise:

    O2i8EPO.gif
    Post edited by evilmark444 on
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,276 Arc User
    how does he figure 500 lobi is going to be enough to buy a ship when the bundle comes out? they're all 900 lobi, and even at the highest sale they've ever done (30% off), that comes to 630, which is 130 over the amount being given, so unless they're going to either make an even higher sale or permanently lower the lobi cost of all the ships in the store (which i wouldn't mind), that math just doesn't work out​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 6,950 Arc User
    edited February 2021
    That said, I still wish they'd offer a stripped down version of the bundle, specifically because I have already bought every T6 store ship, so will be unable to use the 2x T6 coupons (unless they're not bound). I already have 2x unspent 50% off coupons.

    Yeah, he seems to be using the coupons as a way to advertise it as 6 ships instead of 4, but I already have most of the ships that I want and the ones I don't have I'm perfectly happy paying 30 bucks for when I finally come up with a character to use them on. The coupons mean nothing to me, and neither does all the other bloat, if I were to buy the bundle it would only, ONLY be for the legendaries and four ships simply is NOT worth $188 on sale, much less the $250 normal price. A Legendary only bundle at $120 normal price, $90 introductory sale price is the only thing I'd be willing to buy.
    Lifetime Subscriber since Beta
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  • foppotee#4552 foppotee Member Posts: 1,704 Arc User
    Kael's response to a Reddit thread about "Cryptic's selective logic about the forums/reddit being a vocal minority":
    Lemme see if I can help make this make sense.

    Tl;dr: everything is on a case by case basis.

    Every piece of feedback is collated by me or by QA and passed on to the right people, whether that's production or the individual developers (or, in the case of bug reports, verified then passed on). In the case of things like the forums/reddit overwhelmingly saying, "I won't buy that," well that's a huge cause for concern and something that we talked about when it cropped up last year for the ten ship bundle. But...in the end, it sold really well, and people still ask every day when it will be available next.

    Similarly: players on here posit a lot that if we just put every ship in the C-store, or if we sold bundles that were only for Klingons/Romulans/Dominion, we would sell a lot. The sales data doesn't support this. Players don't come out in droves to buy single ships, and non-Fed ships don't sell well.

    Does this mean folks on here and the forums are liars? Of course not. It DOES mean that there are a lot of folks who disagree on what they want, and simply don't post here. And if we were truly cynical, we wouldn't make ships for other races now that anybody can fly anything, but the team works really hard to make sure things like the second Recon Bundle get out, even if they aren't as giant sellers, because we want to make sure the people who really DO want the alien experience can still have it. It's also why we've spent a bunch of time updating the Romulan and Klingon starting experiences, in the hopes that we'll get more players interested in those races.

    Now, as for the stats. Once again, huge outcry. One again, reported to the folks who can do something about it. And in this case, Geko and Borticus took a look at the stats and said, "Yeah, that's valid, we can improve these in these ways," and then they went and did that. Geko specifically asked me to go through and collate every piece of feedback about the ships' stats to present to them, after I brought up my concerns in a Leads meeting. Which I did.

    So, the long and short is: every time there's an outcry or upset players here, I report on it and we discuss it. The response changes each time. If there's validity to it, or something we can do (adding Lobi to the bundle, for example - by the way, you didn't hear it from me, but 500 Lobi WILL be enough to buy a new ship the weekend the bundle goes live, so that's now a six-seven ship bundle, depending on when you buy), we execute on it. It would be stupid not to listen to you guys, because you're our most passionate fans and we like you, even when you make weird memes of Geko or call for me to be fired every day. :) I've said over and over that I love this community because I do. And we DO listen. But that doesn't always mean that we will do every single thing that you ask, because that would also be a bad idea. We have to look at the whole picture, including data from folks you might never see on here.

    Does that make sense?

    My biggest disappointment with this is that their sales days indicates non-bundles don't sell, but big bundles like this do 😔 I really, REALLY hope this bundle is different when it comes to sales, cause otherwise:

    O2i8EPO.gif

    Thanks evilmark444 for bring this information to the STO official forums where it should also be. I like him responding in this nature even if I don't like it, agree with it, or believe it sometimes.

    This is the calculation that concludes this bundle isn't for me: I watched a YouTube video earlier today & 1 of the comments put it in perspective for me: Cryptic charged 19500 zen ($195) opening sale price of -35% discount from 30000 zen ($300) for the 10th Anniversary Legendary Bundle of (10 Legend) ships, & now Cryptic is charging 18750 zen ($187.50) opening sale of only -25% discount from 25000 zen ($250) for this 2021 "Legendary" Bundle of (4 "Legend" & 2 regular) ships. This is just the plain & simple math. It doesn't include the fluff pieces which do add various amounts of value.
  • gaevsmangaevsman Member Posts: 3,190 Arc User
    Kael's response to a Reddit thread about "Cryptic's selective logic about the forums/reddit being a vocal minority":
    Lemme see if I can help make this make sense.

    Tl;dr: everything is on a case by case basis.

    Every piece of feedback is collated by me or by QA and passed on to the right people, whether that's production or the individual developers (or, in the case of bug reports, verified then passed on). In the case of things like the forums/reddit overwhelmingly saying, "I won't buy that," well that's a huge cause for concern and something that we talked about when it cropped up last year for the ten ship bundle. But...in the end, it sold really well, and people still ask every day when it will be available next.

    Similarly: players on here posit a lot that if we just put every ship in the C-store, or if we sold bundles that were only for Klingons/Romulans/Dominion, we would sell a lot. The sales data doesn't support this. Players don't come out in droves to buy single ships, and non-Fed ships don't sell well.

    Does this mean folks on here and the forums are liars? Of course not. It DOES mean that there are a lot of folks who disagree on what they want, and simply don't post here. And if we were truly cynical, we wouldn't make ships for other races now that anybody can fly anything, but the team works really hard to make sure things like the second Recon Bundle get out, even if they aren't as giant sellers, because we want to make sure the people who really DO want the alien experience can still have it. It's also why we've spent a bunch of time updating the Romulan and Klingon starting experiences, in the hopes that we'll get more players interested in those races.

    Now, as for the stats. Once again, huge outcry. One again, reported to the folks who can do something about it. And in this case, Geko and Borticus took a look at the stats and said, "Yeah, that's valid, we can improve these in these ways," and then they went and did that. Geko specifically asked me to go through and collate every piece of feedback about the ships' stats to present to them, after I brought up my concerns in a Leads meeting. Which I did.

    So, the long and short is: every time there's an outcry or upset players here, I report on it and we discuss it. The response changes each time. If there's validity to it, or something we can do (adding Lobi to the bundle, for example - by the way, you didn't hear it from me, but 500 Lobi WILL be enough to buy a new ship the weekend the bundle goes live, so that's now a six-seven ship bundle, depending on when you buy), we execute on it. It would be stupid not to listen to you guys, because you're our most passionate fans and we like you, even when you make weird memes of Geko or call for me to be fired every day. :) I've said over and over that I love this community because I do. And we DO listen. But that doesn't always mean that we will do every single thing that you ask, because that would also be a bad idea. We have to look at the whole picture, including data from folks you might never see on here.

    Does that make sense?

    My biggest disappointment with this is that their sales days indicates non-bundles don't sell, but big bundles like this do 😔 I really, REALLY hope this bundle is different when it comes to sales, cause otherwise:

    O2i8EPO.gif

    Thanks evilmark444 for bring this information to the STO official forums where it should also be. I like him responding in this nature even if I don't like it, agree with it, or believe it sometimes.

    This is the calculation that concludes this bundle isn't for me: I watched a YouTube video earlier today & 1 of the comments put it in perspective for me: Cryptic charged 19500 zen ($195) opening sale price of -35% discount from 30000 zen ($300) for the 10th Anniversary Legendary Bundle of (10 Legend) ships, & now Cryptic is charging 18750 zen ($187.50) opening sale of only -25% discount from 25000 zen ($250) for this 2021 "Legendary" Bundle of (4 "Legend" & 2 regular) ships. This is just the plain & simple math. It doesn't include the fluff pieces which do add various amounts of value.

    Yes, a lot of people here complains about the stats, but all, all of them agree that the price is too high, at least all agree on that, for once..
    The forces of darkness are upon us!
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