test content
What is the Arc Client?
Install Arc

Yay! No More Torture! (KDF Revamp Part 2)

2

Comments

  • fallenkezef#4581 fallenkezef Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    By your logic are you finaly accepting the fact that Cryptic are biased against KDF players and there is a lack of parity between factions? If "many" forum threads are your unit of measurement, there is a thread about KDF lacking parity every week....

    Somehow I doubt you'll apply your standard equaly.
    The problem with this comparison is that one, that of murder, is a subjective opinion, while argument of KDF lacking parity have been proven demonstrably false.

    Nice try though. You were THIS close to an actual argument.

    Proven false? Count the number of fed only ships compared with the number of KDF only ships....

    At least you'll finaly be able to take some high ground when the new patch drops and cryptic gives up on the notion of factions.

  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    For those arguing about, "We blow up so many ships!" Yeah, that sucks too. It's very not Star Trek. It's also part of it being an MMO video game. It's just easier to accept, because we're zoomed out and only seeing inanimate objects/toys being blown up. With the torture scene, it's zoomed in. We see it, and we had to listen to the Captain beg us to stop. This is basic psychology. It's easier for (non-psychopathic) soldiers to shoot someone from far way, or use a drone, than to actually torture someone or choke them to death face to face.

    All that being said, I did point out that I had issue with blowing up the peaceful Federation ship. And I'll admit, I really REALLY don't like watching Voth Citadel Dreadnoughts fall apart. Some of those Voth could be Nelen Exil's family or former friends. :-(

    You say this as if we don't go in and kill people up close and personal... or do you avoid ground missions entirely?
    I'm more disturbed by the fact that I can literally disintegrate someone with a phaser then I am by having to torture an *enemy* captain for information in time of war.
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • fallenkezef#4581 fallenkezef Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    For those arguing about, "We blow up so many ships!" Yeah, that sucks too. It's very not Star Trek. It's also part of it being an MMO video game. It's just easier to accept, because we're zoomed out and only seeing inanimate objects/toys being blown up. With the torture scene, it's zoomed in. We see it, and we had to listen to the Captain beg us to stop. This is basic psychology. It's easier for (non-psychopathic) soldiers to shoot someone from far way, or use a drone, than to actually torture someone or choke them to death face to face.

    All that being said, I did point out that I had issue with blowing up the peaceful Federation ship. And I'll admit, I really REALLY don't like watching Voth Citadel Dreadnoughts fall apart. Some of those Voth could be Nelen Exil's family or former friends. :-(

    You say this as if we don't go in and kill people up close and personal... or do you avoid ground missions entirely?
    I'm more disturbed by the fact that I can literally disintegrate someone with a phaser then I am by having to torture an *enemy* captain for information in time of war.

    What's the difference between torturing someone on a ship's bridge and punching him to death with electro-gauntlets? Or cutting him up with a nano-pulse Batleth?

    Oh, the difference is it's bad if you do it to a FEDERATION npc.....
  • This content has been removed.
  • fallenkezef#4581 fallenkezef Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    Proven false? Count the number of fed only ships compared with the number of KDF only ships....

    At least you'll finaly be able to take some high ground when the new patch drops and cryptic gives up on the notion of factions.
    >Implying the number of ships has jack all to do with faction parity.
    No. Also
    >Cryptic giving up on factions due to the upcoming patch
    No such thing is happening there either.

    But OFC, all we have heard before the YoK is
    >Cryptic neglects the KDF!
    Then the Year of Klingon comes around and Cryptic systematically revamps all the old Klingon faction missions, Qo'nos, all the canon Klingon ship models/textures, Klingon hair, face, and uniform, textures for both players and NPCs, the targ and Fek'Ihri models/textures, does an entirely new Klingon focused story arc, with associated patrols, and TFOs, and a Klingon recruitment event and all we have heard since YoK started is
    >WHY IS IT CALLED YOK WHEN CRYPTIC ISN'T DOING ANYTHING FOR US!
    When the only thing they could possibly do more for Klingons is a legendary ship pack... which has been heavily suggested to be happening at some point.

    At this point I wouldn't be surprised if Cryptic literally deleted all non Klingon content from the game, remade everything to be Klingon only, and Klingon players were still complaining about being shafted in some way.

    The level of imagined victimization is beyond belief.

    Nice strawman

    None of that addresses the lack of parity in regards to KDF/Fed ships.

    The vast majority of KDF players have welcomed the YoK updates, with the minor exception of gutting the mars mission, I love the updates.

    However it doesn't change the fact that for most KDF players, it's ships we want, ships that compare to the Fed only options.

  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    For those arguing about, "We blow up so many ships!" Yeah, that sucks too. It's very not Star Trek. It's also part of it being an MMO video game. It's just easier to accept, because we're zoomed out and only seeing inanimate objects/toys being blown up. With the torture scene, it's zoomed in. We see it, and we had to listen to the Captain beg us to stop. This is basic psychology. It's easier for (non-psychopathic) soldiers to shoot someone from far way, or use a drone, than to actually torture someone or choke them to death face to face.

    All that being said, I did point out that I had issue with blowing up the peaceful Federation ship. And I'll admit, I really REALLY don't like watching Voth Citadel Dreadnoughts fall apart. Some of those Voth could be Nelen Exil's family or former friends. :-(

    You say this as if we don't go in and kill people up close and personal... or do you avoid ground missions entirely?
    I'm more disturbed by the fact that I can literally disintegrate someone with a phaser then I am by having to torture an *enemy* captain for information in time of war.

    What's the difference between torturing someone on a ship's bridge and punching him to death with electro-gauntlets? Or cutting him up with a nano-pulse Batleth?

    Oh, the difference is it's bad if you do it to a FEDERATION npc.....

    Oh, I know that. I was just going with his logic of "we're zoomed out and only seeing inanimate objects/toy being blown up".
    And really, isn't that what's happening anyway?! We're not killing anyone, we're not destroying anything... they're all just pixels!!

    Imagine if every actor was as squeamish as the "majority of the players" of this game, as some would make us believe.
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • This content has been removed.
  • This content has been removed.
  • fallenkezef#4581 fallenkezef Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    Nice strawman

    None of that addresses the lack of parity in regards to KDF/Fed ships.

    The vast majority of KDF players have welcomed the YoK updates, with the minor exception of gutting the mars mission, I love the updates.

    However it doesn't change the fact that for most KDF players, it's ships we want, ships that compare to the Fed only options.
    Except it isn't.

    The Klingons and Federation having the exact same number of ships doesn't really have anything to do with factional parity. Especially in a pre-established universe as Star Trek where we see, in canon, that the KDF employs a vastly smaller number of vessels compared to the Federation. Largely owing to the fact that the Klingon Empire is focused nearly exclusively on military matters, while Starfleet has a wider range of interests such as science, and diplomacy. Not to mention the Federation being an alliance of over 180 member worlds, and thousands of colonies and affiliates, giving them a much wider array of influences to design ships from. Whereas the Empire is canonally a mono-state, and the races the absorbed in STO's time didn't field a wide array of ships either.

    The only thing needed for factional parity is the Klingons getting a number of ships statistically level with the ratio of Starfleet and Klingon ships from the shows... which Cryptic has more then provided.

    Out of the soon to be soon to be 352 T6 ships, 166 of them were released at cross factional equivalents. So if the Feds got one, the Roms and KDF, and sometimes the Dominion, got their own versions of it. Another 32 ships, mostly the Discovery ones, were released in Fed/KDF packs. So if the Feds got one, so did the KDF. And another 93 ships were released as totally faction neutral ships as either lockbox, lobi, or event rewards. All in all, something around 82.6% of all T6 ships releases have been available to the Klingons. Not only do Klingons have access to the majority of ships made, they have access to the vast majority of ships made, and a statistically higher ratio compared to the Federation fleet then was present in the TV shows.

    I also find the complaints about ships rather hypocritical because many of the same people complaining about factional ship parity are the same people complaining about the supposed(demonstrably false) decrease in story missions, isn't cancelled out by the increase in ship production(which is also wrong, in fact, average ship releases have gone down) because "ships aren't content". So, if they aren't real content, how are Klingons undeserved by not getting non-content?

    And I've yet to see "the vast majority" of Klingon players welcome the updates. Looking at the forums, most Klingon players have done is complain about YoK doing nothing at all to help the Klingon faction, and comments about why call it YoK if they are going to do anything Klingon related, when its been nearly nothing but Klingon related content.

    You like to use canon when it suits you. Starfleet ingame has over 50 (not including fleet clones) non-canon, starfleet only ships. That's before you start counting the canon ships!

    There are 48 KDF only ships in total in-game (not including fleet clones). You claim KDF can't have ships because they are not canon but it's ok for cryptic to pull non-canon, starfleet ships out of their collective behinds, give them superior consoles and traits and make them fed only.



  • legendarylycan#5411 legendarylycan Member Posts: 37,284 Arc User
    For those arguing about, "We blow up so many ships!" Yeah, that sucks too. It's very not Star Trek. It's also part of it being an MMO video game. It's just easier to accept, because we're zoomed out and only seeing inanimate objects/toys being blown up. With the torture scene, it's zoomed in. We see it, and we had to listen to the Captain beg us to stop. This is basic psychology. It's easier for (non-psychopathic) soldiers to shoot someone from far way, or use a drone, than to actually torture someone or choke them to death face to face.

    All that being said, I did point out that I had issue with blowing up the peaceful Federation ship. And I'll admit, I really REALLY don't like watching Voth Citadel Dreadnoughts fall apart. Some of those Voth could be Nelen Exil's family or former friends. :-(

    You say this as if we don't go in and kill people up close and personal... or do you avoid ground missions entirely?
    I'm more disturbed by the fact that I can literally disintegrate someone with a phaser then I am by having to torture an *enemy* captain for information in time of war.

    i am far less disturbed by being able to disintegrate someone with an energy weapon, because that's something they're designed to do, than being able to do the same with a punch, kick, bite or knife toss

    not to mention being able to revive disintegrated units​​
    Like special weapons from other Star Trek games? Wondering if they can be replicated in STO even a little bit? Check this out: https://forum.arcgames.com/startrekonline/discussion/1262277/a-mostly-comprehensive-guide-to-star-trek-videogame-special-weapons-and-their-sto-equivalents

    #LegalizeAwoo

    A normie goes "Oh, what's this?"
    An otaku goes "UwU, what's this?"
    A furry goes "OwO, what's this?"
    A werewolf goes "Awoo, what's this?"


    "It's nothing personal, I just don't feel like I've gotten to know a person until I've sniffed their crotch."
    "We said 'no' to Mr. Curiosity. We're not home. Curiosity is not welcome, it is not to be invited in. Curiosity...is bad. It gets you in trouble, it gets you killed, and more importantly...it makes you poor!"
    Passion and Serenity are one.
    I gain power by understanding both.
    In the chaos of their battle, I bring order.
    I am a shadow, darkness born from light.
    The Force is united within me.
  • vetteguy904vetteguy904 Member Posts: 3,942 Arc User
    Thank you for removing the torture scene from the Warzone episode on the KDF side. It made me stop playing and aborting the mission on my first KDF character (wanted to play a not-scumbag character while also not being Starfleet), and never go beyond that point in that episode on that character. And when I forced myself to play through it, just to see what story points I missed on the KDF side, I really didn't enjoy it (being the torturer and seeing a Starfleet captain go out like that). I appreciate the change, and also like that you gave us the option to not blow up the ship.

    Just wish we had the option in the Empire/Tutorial to let the ship that was tricked by Franklin Drake's false distress signal leave (the one that didn't want any trouble, apologized, and was ready to just be on its way) too. Anyway, thanks again for the changes! ^_^

    considering that is pretty much canon behavior, your request to remove it should be denied completely. if ANYTHING, some episodes have too much federation dialog forced down the KDF throats. I'm not going to barter or bargain with the opposition, I'm sending them to Grethor. There should have ALWAYS been two dialog sets in every mission from the beginning.
    sig.jpg
  • This content has been removed.
  • millefune#8468 millefune Member Posts: 310 Arc User
    I use a Stun Phaser, so I'm not killing anyone in ground combat. When they fall over, they're just unconscious. ^_^
  • fallenkezef#4581 fallenkezef Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    I use a Stun Phaser, so I'm not killing anyone in ground combat. When they fall over, they're just unconscious. ^_^

    You rolled KDF to use stun phasers?
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    For those arguing about, "We blow up so many ships!" Yeah, that sucks too. It's very not Star Trek. It's also part of it being an MMO video game. It's just easier to accept, because we're zoomed out and only seeing inanimate objects/toys being blown up. With the torture scene, it's zoomed in. We see it, and we had to listen to the Captain beg us to stop. This is basic psychology. It's easier for (non-psychopathic) soldiers to shoot someone from far way, or use a drone, than to actually torture someone or choke them to death face to face.

    All that being said, I did point out that I had issue with blowing up the peaceful Federation ship. And I'll admit, I really REALLY don't like watching Voth Citadel Dreadnoughts fall apart. Some of those Voth could be Nelen Exil's family or former friends. :-(

    You say this as if we don't go in and kill people up close and personal... or do you avoid ground missions entirely?
    I'm more disturbed by the fact that I can literally disintegrate someone with a phaser then I am by having to torture an *enemy* captain for information in time of war.

    i am far less disturbed by being able to disintegrate someone with an energy weapon, because that's something they're designed to do, than being able to do the same with a punch, kick, bite or knife toss

    not to mention being able to revive disintegrated units​​

    Of course, but there's a reason I specifically mentioned "phasers": because they're the canonical weapons for Starfleet Officers.
    Because, you know... torture is a no-no, but disintegration is just another word for "diplomacy".
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 10,919 Arc User
    edited January 2021
    disintegration is just another word for "diplomacy".

    If I could, I would put that quote on the saucer section of my ship so that when other ships drop out of warp it’s the first thing they read before they decide if they’re going to open a channel and act like an A-Hole. :lol:
    Insert witty signature line here.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    disintegration is just another word for "diplomacy".

    If I could, I would put that quote on the saucer section of my ship so that when other ships drop out of warp it’s the first thing they read before they decide if they’re going to open a channel and act like an A-Hole. :lol:

    Omg :lol::lol::lol::lol:
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • fallenkezef#4581 fallenkezef Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    I think we have all this wrong.

    It's not the KDF merging with the feddybears. It's the feddybears finaly admitting who and what they are wanting to merge with the superior moral philosophy of the Klingon Empire........
  • snowwolf#0563 snowwolf Member Posts: 1,018 Arc User
    Do you @somtaawkhar actually do anything except for arguing with people on the forums about like.. Everything? Is your life really that shallow? Or do you have nothing else to do while in C-19 quarantine?
  • fallenkezef#4581 fallenkezef Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    Do you @somtaawkhar actually do anything except for arguing with people on the forums about like.. Everything? Is your life really that shallow? Or do you have nothing else to do while in C-19 quarantine?

    Over the last year I have come to the conclusion that he is either a paid white knight for cryptic or that cryptic really owes him some money and should add him to the payroll.

    He supports everything cryptic does and jumps on anything negative about the game with a zealous passion not seen since the sacking of Jerusalem!

  • paradox#7391 paradox Member Posts: 1,800 Arc User
    just think of this game like a Star Trek show, where you're an actor playing the bad guy, you're not really torturing the guy, he's just a fellow actor playing the part of an expendable redshirt, where FED PCs play the part of your heroic arch-nemesis, "I've been foiled again Starfleet but you'll never hear the last of me, Mwahahah!"
  • edited January 2021
    This content has been removed.
  • thegrandnagus1thegrandnagus1 Member Posts: 5,166 Arc User
    I only come here occasionally

    :D:D:D:D

    The-Grand-Nagus
    Join Date: Sep 2008

    og9Zoh0.jpg
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    I only come here occasionally

    :D:D:D:D

    @peterconnorfirst come see this.... I'm wheezing. Ahahahahahha.
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
  • originalspockoriginalspock Member Posts: 809 Arc User
    I use a Stun Phaser, so I'm not killing anyone in ground combat. When they fall over, they're just unconscious. ^_^

    The lengths you have gone through to theatricalize and attempt to manipulate culture & canon of a Klingon for your own self gratification is both disturbing and delusional. You wanted to be the .000000000000001% of the Klingon's that go pacifist, grew up exactly like Federation children, and never had to achieve anything of merit through sacrifice. You take all semblance of their cultural identity and throw it away, and we're supposed to be impressed with your opinion?
  • joshmauljoshmaul Member Posts: 519 Arc User
    If the things people say weren't so demonstrably wrong, or bordering on ridiculous conspiracies, and it actually took effort, and time, to formulate a response to them, I wouldn't be doing it as much.

    That's a rather long-winded way of saying "no, you don't have anything better to do".
    TW1sr57.jpg
    "There's No Way Like Poway!"

    Real Join Date: October 2010
  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,225 Arc User
    > @jennycolvin said:
    > @peterconnorfirst come see this.... I'm wheezing. Ahahahahahha.

    LOL thanks for the tag Jenny. :D

    Was worth it but it’s also a bit scary as I would not want to imagine how a full time forum job of his might look like. :(
    animated.gif
    Looking for a fun PvE fleet? Join us at Omega Combat Division today.
    felisean wrote: »
    teamwork to reach a goal is awesome and highly appreciated
  • fallenkezef#4581 fallenkezef Member Posts: 644 Arc User
    I use a Stun Phaser, so I'm not killing anyone in ground combat. When they fall over, they're just unconscious. ^_^

    The lengths you have gone through to theatricalize and attempt to manipulate culture & canon of a Klingon for your own self gratification is both disturbing and delusional. You wanted to be the .000000000000001% of the Klingon's that go pacifist, grew up exactly like Federation children, and never had to achieve anything of merit through sacrifice. You take all semblance of their cultural identity and throw it away, and we're supposed to be impressed with your opinion?

    This is what I do not understand.
  • protoneousprotoneous Member Posts: 3,175 Arc User
    I use a Stun Phaser, so I'm not killing anyone in ground combat. When they fall over, they're just unconscious. ^_^
    The next time somebody complains about being disturbed by something in a mission I'll suggest that they skip it, permanently. I'm not so sure I'll be taking their claim as seriously as I did as in the start of this thread.
  • jennycolvinjennycolvin Member Posts: 1,100 Arc User
    > @jennycolvin said:
    > @peterconnorfirst come see this.... I'm wheezing. Ahahahahahha.

    LOL thanks for the tag Jenny. :D

    Was worth it but it’s also a bit scary as I would not want to imagine how a full time forum job of his might look like. :(

    I mean... fair.
    (And anytime, ROFL)
    kv1Ohsx.png
    Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.

    Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
    - quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
    - quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;

    Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
    Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
This discussion has been closed.