Or they could introduce a checkpoint, meaning the system asks for manual permission to continue: you click the button, you go on with the mission. If 3 click ok - out of a team of 5, so the majority of the players involved - then the mission go on.
Granted, it's not perfect because while rare yes, you could get 3 griefers in the same instance, but it would be better than having someone boothed because they needed to use the bathroom or, as it is now, an entire team eating a leaver penalty because someone decided to be a TRIBBLE.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
Or they could introduce a checkpoint, meaning the system asks for manual permission to continue: you click the button, you go on with the mission. If 3 click ok - out of a team of 5, so the majority of the players involved - then the mission go on.
Granted, it's not perfect because while rare yes, you could get 3 griefers in the same instance, but it would be better than having someone boothed because they needed to use the bathroom or, as it is now, an entire team eating a leaver penalty because someone decided to be a TRIBBLE.
You could further reduce issue by having a none click in say 1 min count as a yes as well.
Or they could introduce a checkpoint, meaning the system asks for manual permission to continue: you click the button, you go on with the mission. If 3 click ok - out of a team of 5, so the majority of the players involved - then the mission go on.
Granted, it's not perfect because while rare yes, you could get 3 griefers in the same instance, but it would be better than having someone boothed because they needed to use the bathroom or, as it is now, an entire team eating a leaver penalty because someone decided to be a TRIBBLE.
You could further reduce issue by having a none click in say 1 min count as a yes as well.
Agreed, that could work perfectly too.
Not agreeing with someone doesn't give you the right to be an TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
they could just have a graduated reward based on contribution.. not perfect by far, if you happen to get grouped with a mega-DPSer or two, but the program could check for , and this is an arbitrary number, say 1/10th of the HP of a single target at each stage. if you fail at any point you get nothing, or a token payout
I've not read all the replies since it's 8 pages long lol, so this might of already been said, but I'm totally against a vote kick system in STO except in private PVEs (Where it's already possible anyway), this is an unpopular opinion I'm sure, but AFKers don't cause that big a problem unless they're in a map like hive ground or something, where it won't let everyone else progress until they move, a lot of maps can be completed with ONE player (Bug hunt for instance), much less 4, so if one guy decides to AFK it usually doesn't cause that big a problem. And if they care they can just report them, it's an inconvenience but at least it doesn't totally destroy the ability for people to do PVE. What would destroy the ability to do PVE however is if every other queue you go to some guy says "Hehe, you breathed a way I didn't like! Everyone kick him!", then he votes to kick you, then everyone else just goes along with it because they saw the option to kick come up and they feel the urge to go with the flow, and bam, you're kicked. Or if some guy says "You know how to do something I don't! Hacker!" and votes to kick you, then convinces everyone else you're hacking as well even though you aren't. (This is typically what happens in games with a vote to kick system)
My apologies if what I'm saying sounds kind of harsh, I didn't mean it that way lol
All that is true. My idea was simply that this system, being entirely automated, can't be weaponized by other players (say by organized groups of players intentionally vote-kicking people just for fun). The only way that it can be spoofed, results in the status quo ante.
Teaming with friends cannot be weaponized by trolls either and the beauty of that is you can do this right now and there is no coding time required to implement it.
I can remember when TFOs were so bad at launch that you would continuously lose players as the game crashed them out to desktop, so by that standard the game is a masterpeice today when it comes to TFO and pugs with the odd AFK or leech popping up. lol
Yes...all of this has been brought up. The two major counter arguments have been that it works fine in other games because they have other systems that this game lacks to reduce abuse...not STOP mind you...just reduce it to a point where they feel it becomes a none issue...course some other players of that game may disagree with that assessment...and of course even demanding that the other game's safeguards be in place first is somehow seen as a completely unreasonable request that must be ignored...despite that those safeguards being in place was their argument to begin with. The other counter argument is that YOU can also abuse the system right back at the griefers. Which is...yeah...no.
And yes, my experience in EVERY GAME that has a vote kick system is that it gets abused.
Let's not forget what's bound to be a very common form of abuse, the people who don't like high DPS group members (Or vice versa). They'll see anyone who's high DPS and kick them out just so they don't get an AFK penalty or are made to look bad. This is why I think that even AFK penalties and leaver penalties should be gotten rid of. Anyone who wants to AFK and not get an AFK penalty can just do a bunch of spike damage at the beginning then go take a nap, or if they do get one just switch chars, so all AFK penalties do is cause unnessecary hatred towards people who otherwise would just be getting the map done faster for them and carrying the queue, and making people with high DPS have to hold back a lot for other people's sakes. And some trolls can even use AFK penalties as a weapon. (Such as starting NTTE so the force field traps everyone who disconnected mid map change when they're able to log back in) and the only reason people trolling hive ground works is because the players can't just leave or else they'll not be able to queue for anything for 30 minutes (Which is also a problem when a queue just breaks for no reason)
Instead of AFK penalties it should be up to the devs in charge of reports as to who gets punished for it, if it wasn't a big enough problem to report them over and for the dev to see it and think "Wow, that was a huge problem, I'm gonna ban that dude", it's not worth them getting punished over, and instead of leaver penalties it should just put a certain number of new people in the queue once others leave to keep it full (which would work with elite queues too if there was an elite random queue), although not an unlimited number since they may have left for a reason. Maybe 3 to 5?
My point is, systems like this tend to backfire quite a bit just by their nature, people who really want to cause trouble are smart and will find a way around almost any system eventually, even if you can't foresee how. And the more extreme of measures you take, and the more power you give them over other people, the more new types of systems you add, specifically the ones involving punishment such as kicking or banning, the more room they have to come up with ways to abuse it.
Something I do think would be worth considering is a "Teleport players to where they're supposed to be" button for hive ground.
"The meaning of victory is not to merely defeat your enemy but to destroy him, to completely eradicate him from living memory, to leave no remnant of his endeavours, to crush utterly his achievement and remove from all record his every trace of existence. From that defeat no enemy can ever recover. That is the meaning of victory."
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
All that is true. My idea was simply that this system, being entirely automated, can't be weaponized by other players (say by organized groups of players intentionally vote-kicking people just for fun). The only way that it can be spoofed, results in the status quo ante.
Your solution has real merit, it’s a solution that cannot be used against players just trying to enjoy the game. Ultimately, I don’t think anything will come of this as Cryptic will see this as something that they either don’t have time to do or is ‘too hard’ to code. Still, this solution is vastly superior to a traditional ‘vote/kick’ system which not only can be, but frequently IS weaponized (in other games) by griefers against people just trying to enjoy the game.
I am in favor of solutions like this that don’t introduce new problems that are more severe then the problem they were intended to fix.
Response to moderated post redacted. -- WingedHussar
Post edited by wingedhussar#7584 on
'But to be logical is not to be right', and 'nothing' on God's earth could ever 'make it' right!'
Judge Dan Haywood
'As l speak now, the words are forming in my head.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I only rarely notice a player just sitting there in a queue doing nothing, so it does not really bother me all that much. However these thankfully infrequent calls by some to implement a kick feature into the game perturbs me, as that function is often abused by anal retentive trolls when available in other games!
I do not support this request at all!
One thing that I do occasionally encounter in STO is when upon loading into a queue, I suddenly get bounced out of the queue as it is loading or arrive within one only to immediately be frozen in place for up to a minute or longer because of internet issues. I would like the op to inform me how any of that is my fault as a player?
Comments
Granted, it's not perfect because while rare yes, you could get 3 griefers in the same instance, but it would be better than having someone boothed because they needed to use the bathroom or, as it is now, an entire team eating a leaver penalty because someone decided to be a TRIBBLE.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
That is actually a good idea
Agreed, that could work perfectly too.
Ci sono tre tipi di giocatori:
- quelli a cui non va mai bene niente... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che sono talmente imbesuiti da credere a qualunque cosa i dev dicano, perfino che la luna è fatta di formaggio... e vanno sul forum a trollare;
- quelli che credono a quello a cui è giusto credere, sono d'accordo con quello con cui è giusto essere d'accordo e sono critici con quello che non va;
Ai giocatori dei primi due tipi, gratis in omaggio un bello specchio lucente su cui arrampicarsi. E una mazzata in testa per la loro poca intelligenza e compassione verso gli altri giocatori che non la pensano come loro.
Agli appartenenti al terzo tipo, invece, dico grazie. Anche se non sempre si riesce a mantenere la calma, siete quelli per cui vale la pena incazzarsi.
My apologies if what I'm saying sounds kind of harsh, I didn't mean it that way lol
I can remember when TFOs were so bad at launch that you would continuously lose players as the game crashed them out to desktop, so by that standard the game is a masterpeice today when it comes to TFO and pugs with the odd AFK or leech popping up. lol
Let's not forget what's bound to be a very common form of abuse, the people who don't like high DPS group members (Or vice versa). They'll see anyone who's high DPS and kick them out just so they don't get an AFK penalty or are made to look bad. This is why I think that even AFK penalties and leaver penalties should be gotten rid of. Anyone who wants to AFK and not get an AFK penalty can just do a bunch of spike damage at the beginning then go take a nap, or if they do get one just switch chars, so all AFK penalties do is cause unnessecary hatred towards people who otherwise would just be getting the map done faster for them and carrying the queue, and making people with high DPS have to hold back a lot for other people's sakes. And some trolls can even use AFK penalties as a weapon. (Such as starting NTTE so the force field traps everyone who disconnected mid map change when they're able to log back in) and the only reason people trolling hive ground works is because the players can't just leave or else they'll not be able to queue for anything for 30 minutes (Which is also a problem when a queue just breaks for no reason)
Instead of AFK penalties it should be up to the devs in charge of reports as to who gets punished for it, if it wasn't a big enough problem to report them over and for the dev to see it and think "Wow, that was a huge problem, I'm gonna ban that dude", it's not worth them getting punished over, and instead of leaver penalties it should just put a certain number of new people in the queue once others leave to keep it full (which would work with elite queues too if there was an elite random queue), although not an unlimited number since they may have left for a reason. Maybe 3 to 5?
My point is, systems like this tend to backfire quite a bit just by their nature, people who really want to cause trouble are smart and will find a way around almost any system eventually, even if you can't foresee how. And the more extreme of measures you take, and the more power you give them over other people, the more new types of systems you add, specifically the ones involving punishment such as kicking or banning, the more room they have to come up with ways to abuse it.
Something I do think would be worth considering is a "Teleport players to where they're supposed to be" button for hive ground.
-Lord Commander Solar Macharius
Your solution has real merit, it’s a solution that cannot be used against players just trying to enjoy the game. Ultimately, I don’t think anything will come of this as Cryptic will see this as something that they either don’t have time to do or is ‘too hard’ to code. Still, this solution is vastly superior to a traditional ‘vote/kick’ system which not only can be, but frequently IS weaponized (in other games) by griefers against people just trying to enjoy the game.
I am in favor of solutions like this that don’t introduce new problems that are more severe then the problem they were intended to fix.
l don't know.
l really don't know what l'm about to say, except l have a feeling about it.
That l must repeat the words that come without my knowledge.'
I do not support this request at all!
One thing that I do occasionally encounter in STO is when upon loading into a queue, I suddenly get bounced out of the queue as it is loading or arrive within one only to immediately be frozen in place for up to a minute or longer because of internet issues. I would like the op to inform me how any of that is my fault as a player?
Should I then be kicked too?