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A kick feature for TFO's

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  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 5,058 Arc User
    Until you can come up with a way of preventing Epeen boots, no. I actually had people screaming at me in chat because I was flying a megawell ship. and heaven forbid someone make an error because they are new to a TFO.... way too many ways of being screwed over that outweighs any benefit. as has been said ad nauseam, if you don't want to risk AFKers, arrange a private group to run with

    Yeah. I've been on the receiving end of that one too, as well as people complaining about the noise when I was using retro phasers.
  • evilmark444evilmark444 Member Posts: 5,715 Arc User
    I would have to say no to a kick feature due to how easily it would be abused.

    While abuse of the kick feature certainly happens in WoW, the frequency of such abuse is grossly exaggerated. I see it happen MAYBE once a year, at most. I think it would be kind of pointless in STO anyway though, if I remember correctly STO doesn't refill vacancies in queues.
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  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 5,058 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    I think it would be kind of pointless in STO anyway though, if I remember correctly STO doesn't refill vacancies in queues.

    It does, actually, but only toward the beginning, and only if the person actually leaves the queue without disconnecting. (Unfortunately, people have figured out that if they get a queue they don't like, they can simply log out to a different toon, and reload that toon later without getting a leaver penalty. Since the system wants to let them back in, on the assumption that the disconnect was accidental or technical, the system holds their spot rather than filling it.)
  • ltminnsltminns Member Posts: 12,239 Arc User
    The other night when I queued for 'Mycelium Realm' for Hard Endeavor to Kill Captains, by the time I joined the rest of the Team was already at the third beam point. I was definately replacement.
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  • cxeronockxcxeronockx Member Posts: 116 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    Today's experience is that a kick system is not necessary if one reports you enough as his afk afk while it is not true at all. In the tfo Operation Riposte I helped more to clear the first station and send landing team after which I went to the third which I almost unlocked on my own, at the next phase I got SNR and reported this in the chat and suddenly I was thrown out of the game with brute force. Not a afk penalty but immediately a temporary suspension of the account, as you can see a kicksystem will definitely be abused to throw out someone who sees a few steps further and reports a bad server connection (Server Not Responding) in the chat which is then reported as afk to get an account ban. I don't really know why someone then puts the effort and money in to play STO, they don't have to count on support because they don't think this is possible. So why a kick system if the report system is already being abused?

    Also a happy holidays to all those who abuse the system and abuse a kick system even more. In any case, my fun is spoiled and over.

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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 52,770 Community Moderator
    Until you can come up with a way of preventing Epeen boots, no. I actually had people screaming at me in chat because I was flying a megawell ship. and heaven forbid someone make an error because they are new to a TFO.... way too many ways of being screwed over that outweighs any benefit.

    This is another reason why I'm hesitant regarding vote kick abuse. If you don't measure up to some perceived measuring stick of some random person, or you're not using an "authorized" build according to some random dude... they retaliate. Adding a vote kick may encourage more discrimination over builds. We already have enough issues with people just launching attacks over perceived issues. We don't need to give them more tools.

    I will admit that the build discrimination may not be a COMMON thing, it happens enough that it comes up every once in a while on the forums.
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  • peterconnorfirstpeterconnorfirst Member Posts: 6,012 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    A playerbase that cant handle performan cant handle such a feature.

    If one performes well enough in this title the verry reason for any kick features become obsolete. DPSer know. ;)
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  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 9,923 Arc User
    A playerbase that cant handle performan cant handle such a feature.

    If one performes well enough in this title the verry reason for any kick features become obsolete. DPSer know. ;)

    Big shock.. but I agree. :smiley:
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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 2,766 Community Moderator
    rattler2 wrote: »
    This is another reason why I'm hesitant regarding vote kick abuse. If you don't measure up to some perceived measuring stick of some random person, or you're not using an "authorized" build according to some random dude... they retaliate. Adding a vote kick may encourage more discrimination over builds. We already have enough issues with people just launching attacks over perceived issues. We don't need to give them more tools.

    I will admit that the build discrimination may not be a COMMON thing, it happens enough that it comes up every once in a while on the forums.

    Your argument is paradoxical and flawed. Unless you specifically tell them what you're running on your ship, how are they going to know what you have without seeing you use the ship? The only way they can try to reconstruct your build is to parse the run with you in it and try to reconstruct based on that log. However in order to get that parse they have to complete the queue with you in it. So by the time they could have the data to figure out you're running an "unauthorized" build, the run is already complete and done.

    As for the discrimination argument, are we talking true discrimination and elitism? Or are we talking a case of someone doing under next to nothing and thinking they're ready for elite content? I ask because as elitist as this may sound, there are times when people need a reality check on their performance. If a run requires folks to deal 30k dps at a minimum from each person to complete, and someone in there isn't doing 30k, then they are not ready for that queue. That's ultimately a side tangent but you get the idea.

    Folks need to realize that elitists, trolls, and otherwise are always going to exist. There is no such thing as an abuse proof system, as even the systems we have now are abused. The difference however is right now, a team has no remedy if the 5th guy can't pull his weight, is an AFKer, or a troll. So as is, one guy is allowed to AFK a group, troll a group, or down the line with no remedy for the other 4 people. While a person can try to troll for not meeting their standards of what they think DPS should be or similar, there is nothing stopping the other 4 members from squashing the first vote kick, then turning around and kicking the elitist troll.

    If folks are serious about stopping AFKing and trolling, then something has got to give. Folks can't say they want to stop AFKing and trolling, yet want to implement more of the same or sit back and do nothing. Right now from what I'm seeing (not you specifically per say) folks are saying they want something done about AFKing, trolling and similar in runs, yet at the same time when rubber meets the road, they don't want to do anything about it that's proven to work in other games.
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  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,810 Arc User
    how about we give this thread the grav well 3 treatment?
    meh

  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 9,145 Arc User
    rattler2 wrote: »
    This is another reason why I'm hesitant regarding vote kick abuse. If you don't measure up to some perceived measuring stick of some random person, or you're not using an "authorized" build according to some random dude... they retaliate. Adding a vote kick may encourage more discrimination over builds. We already have enough issues with people just launching attacks over perceived issues. We don't need to give them more tools.

    I will admit that the build discrimination may not be a COMMON thing, it happens enough that it comes up every once in a while on the forums.

    Your argument is paradoxical and flawed. Unless you specifically tell them what you're running on your ship, how are they going to know what you have without seeing you use the ship? The only way they can try to reconstruct your build is to parse the run with you in it and try to reconstruct based on that log. However in order to get that parse they have to complete the queue with you in it. So by the time they could have the data to figure out you're running an "unauthorized" build, the run is already complete and done.

    As for the discrimination argument, are we talking true discrimination and elitism? Or are we talking a case of someone doing under next to nothing and thinking they're ready for elite content? I ask because as elitist as this may sound, there are times when people need a reality check on their performance. If a run requires folks to deal 30k dps at a minimum from each person to complete, and someone in there isn't doing 30k, then they are not ready for that queue. That's ultimately a side tangent but you get the idea.

    Folks need to realize that elitists, trolls, and otherwise are always going to exist. There is no such thing as an abuse proof system, as even the systems we have now are abused. The difference however is right now, a team has no remedy if the 5th guy can't pull his weight, is an AFKer, or a troll. So as is, one guy is allowed to AFK a group, troll a group, or down the line with no remedy for the other 4 people. While a person can try to troll for not meeting their standards of what they think DPS should be or similar, there is nothing stopping the other 4 members from squashing the first vote kick, then turning around and kicking the elitist troll.

    If folks are serious about stopping AFKing and trolling, then something has got to give. Folks can't say they want to stop AFKing and trolling, yet want to implement more of the same or sit back and do nothing. Right now from what I'm seeing (not you specifically per say) folks are saying they want something done about AFKing, trolling and similar in runs, yet at the same time when rubber meets the road, they don't want to do anything about it that's proven to work in other games.

    It's really not though. There is a subset of people who blame others for a bad run. Because it can't possible be their fault. It's something of a misnomer to call them DPSers because anyone who actually focuses on DPS can solo advanced queues if not elite ones. They are more the wanna be DPSers. And while they have mostly gone away from the DPS league split and the eventual death of the numbers league...there is still a remnant around. They were honestly a lot more of an issue during the numbers DPS league. And if you run off meta builds, you tend to draw their ire...even when you parse higher than they do in the run. You have no idea how many people yell at me for using a tact sci hybrid in the run only to parse 3x what they do.

    And while you say vote kick systems works in other games, my experience has been quite the opposite with having literally never seen one that I would considering working. That is doing less harm than the problem that they are trying to fix.
  • westmetalswestmetals Member Posts: 5,058 Arc User
    Unless you specifically tell them what you're running on your ship, how are they going to know what you have without seeing you use the ship? The only way they can try to reconstruct your build is to parse the run with you in it and try to reconstruct based on that log. However in order to get that parse they have to complete the queue with you in it. So by the time they could have the data to figure out you're running an "unauthorized" build, the run is already complete and done.

    Full data, working out the whole build, sure. But there are specific BOFF abilities or specific weapons, for example, that people will see and scream about because you're "doing it wrong". I've been told off for using retrofit phasers merely because people didn't want to hear those sound effects. And "you should really use cannons on that ship not beams" is another common one.

  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 2,766 Community Moderator
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    It's really not though. There is a subset of people who blame others for a bad run. Because it can't possible be their fault. It's something of a misnomer to call them DPSers because anyone who actually focuses on DPS can solo advanced queues if not elite ones. They are more the wanna be DPSers. And while they have mostly gone away from the DPS league split and the eventual death of the numbers league...there is still a remnant around. They were honestly a lot more of an issue during the numbers DPS league. And if you run off meta builds, you tend to draw their ire...even when you parse higher than they do in the run. You have no idea how many people yell at me for using a tact sci hybrid in the run only to parse 3x what they do.

    And while you say vote kick systems works in other games, my experience has been quite the opposite with having literally never seen one that I would considering working. That is doing less harm than the problem that they are trying to fix.
    Actually it is 100% paradoxical and flawed. There are only 2 ways for them to know what you're using to give you grief for your "off meta" build.

    One: they had prior knowledge of your build.
    Two: they parsed you and reconstructed the build based on their parse of you.

    The only way they're going to have prior knowledge is if you specifically tell them what you're running, which you are under ZERO obligation to do. You might say "but what about old parses uploaded to the league tables?" Someone could pull an old parse from the tables, but all that's going to tell them is what you used for that old run. It doesn't guarantee that you are using the same build from the previous run. So unless you tell them specifically before hand, they have no way of knowing before hand. This brings us back to point two, the only other way for them to learn what you're using is to try to reconstruct it from a parse of you, which is only possible for them to get by completing the run with you to start with.

    If it's a private group, they have the right to bring whoever they want. Otherwise if it's a random group, that's why there would be safeguards in place. I've also seen the elitists being the ones to get tossed more often than not.

    So this brings us again full circle. Do folks want something to be done about AFKers, leechers, and trolls or do they not? What is the remedy if not a vote kick system or something allowing folks to eject problem members? Automated systems can be tricked and are what we have now which don't work. So what is the solution, or do people truly want a solution?
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  • darkbladejkdarkbladejk Member Posts: 2,766 Community Moderator
    westmetals wrote: »
    Unless you specifically tell them what you're running on your ship, how are they going to know what you have without seeing you use the ship? The only way they can try to reconstruct your build is to parse the run with you in it and try to reconstruct based on that log. However in order to get that parse they have to complete the queue with you in it. So by the time they could have the data to figure out you're running an "unauthorized" build, the run is already complete and done.

    Full data, working out the whole build, sure. But there are specific BOFF abilities or specific weapons, for example, that people will see and scream about because you're "doing it wrong". I've been told off for using retrofit phasers merely because people didn't want to hear those sound effects. And "you should really use cannons on that ship not beams" is another common one.

    put them on ignore and tell them to mind their own business, problem solved. Stuff like that is going to happen regardless and if they don't like it, then they can turn their sound down or off. It's not incumbent on you to change your build for one troll. All I'm seeing so far are "exception that proves the rule" type examples. Not every boff power has a visual component you can tie to one specific person. Meaning that if one wanted to know what powers you're using, they would once again have to parse you out, and/or watch your buffs bar the entire time, meaning the problem is them and not you. As for the powers that do have a visual component, not all powers are exclusive to certain builds. There are certain traits and abilities that work well with AP Omega, as well as instances you may see FAW and Scatter Volley in the same build. Polarons being a prime example to cheese the morphogenic set. Otherwise, tell the elitists to mind their own business and put them on ignore. More than likely they will get kicked themselves. And if on the extremely slim chance they did manage to kick you, then you can queue up again and you will never see that guy again.

    Honestly I see arguments like this as simply grasping at straws since folks already do this sort of junk without a kick system. If a dude is giving you grief, put them on ignore. Plus having the kick option means you can all kick the elitist and play in peace. Kick systems work both ways.
    "Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations

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  • duasynduasyn Member Posts: 450 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    It's a real issue when you see players bragging in chat channels about how much they AFK in events.
    I check the ID of everyone in an event group.
    There are a few handles I know are habitual AFKers and if I see them in the group I just drop out.
    I can always re-queue with an alt toon and get it done.

    Barring an actual game stat log solution... My solution would be to make someone require having many afk reports before getting in trouble. That way the person who DC's occasionally won't have an issue. But a certain number of reports in a certain time-frame means they can't queue for pugs for a certain amount of time. They'd have to get a full group of friends to queue with them in a private instance to do events.
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 9,145 Arc User
    coldnapalm wrote: »
    It's really not though. There is a subset of people who blame others for a bad run. Because it can't possible be their fault. It's something of a misnomer to call them DPSers because anyone who actually focuses on DPS can solo advanced queues if not elite ones. They are more the wanna be DPSers. And while they have mostly gone away from the DPS league split and the eventual death of the numbers league...there is still a remnant around. They were honestly a lot more of an issue during the numbers DPS league. And if you run off meta builds, you tend to draw their ire...even when you parse higher than they do in the run. You have no idea how many people yell at me for using a tact sci hybrid in the run only to parse 3x what they do.

    And while you say vote kick systems works in other games, my experience has been quite the opposite with having literally never seen one that I would considering working. That is doing less harm than the problem that they are trying to fix.
    Actually it is 100% paradoxical and flawed. There are only 2 ways for them to know what you're using to give you grief for your "off meta" build.

    One: they had prior knowledge of your build.
    Two: they parsed you and reconstructed the build based on their parse of you.

    The only way they're going to have prior knowledge is if you specifically tell them what you're running, which you are under ZERO obligation to do. You might say "but what about old parses uploaded to the league tables?" Someone could pull an old parse from the tables, but all that's going to tell them is what you used for that old run. It doesn't guarantee that you are using the same build from the previous run. So unless you tell them specifically before hand, they have no way of knowing before hand. This brings us back to point two, the only other way for them to learn what you're using is to try to reconstruct it from a parse of you, which is only possible for them to get by completing the run with you to start with.

    If it's a private group, they have the right to bring whoever they want. Otherwise if it's a random group, that's why there would be safeguards in place. I've also seen the elitists being the ones to get tossed more often than not.

    So this brings us again full circle. Do folks want something to be done about AFKers, leechers, and trolls or do they not? What is the remedy if not a vote kick system or something allowing folks to eject problem members? Automated systems can be tricked and are what we have now which don't work. So what is the solution, or do people truly want a solution?

    Are you seriously frakking kidding me?!? You can't possible be this dumb to how the game works or how people act. Let's see...I'm in a tactical ship...using cannons with scatter volley running all the time and I toss out a grave well that sucks in everything in 8km that lasts 40 seconds...guess what sweet pea, they DAMN WELL KNOW I AM RUNNING A TACT SCI HYBRID. Do they know EXACTLY what I am running? No...but they don't need to for them to feel that they have a right to harass me about how I am playing the game wrong. Why do you think these morons need to know EXACTLY what you run for them feel they have a right to run their mouths off? Usually with knowledge that is FAR below my own no less...but regardless of that, you seem to be under the mistaken impression that these idjets need actual facts and data to spew their I am an elitist prick so I can't possible have blown up or taken X long to kill something in this TFO and it is everyone else's fault for not playing "properly" speech. They don't. And that isn't even something even MORE obvious...like using beams over cannons. Take a cmdr tact ship with beams on it and yeah that's like chumming the waters for these folks.

    There should be safeguards...like say not grouping you with people on your ignore list maybe? You know, the thing that MUST happen before a vote kick system can even remotely have ANY safeguards from abuse...and even than, that can still be bypassed in a F2P game...or by concerted efforts to overload your ignore list by say spreading a picture of you if you are a pretty girl (yes this happened to my friend in WoW...no Blizzard is doing jack all nothing to the TRIBBLE that doxed her). And remember that Blizzard CS is leaps and bounds better than Cryptic as they actually have one that doesn't tell people with problems to come post on the forum and break the BLOODY FORUM RULES.

    I want something to be done that will do LESS DAMAGE than the problem...and a vote kick system is not it. A better automated system might work. Making it so you don't group with people on your ignore list will definitely help the matter...but they have said that is complicated at the very least and while not at outright no...the chances of them being able to do it based on the last couple of months is not a likely outcome. So given the choice between a HIGHLY and EASILY abusable vote kick system and them doing NOTHING AT ALL...I pick the option of least damage and DO NOTHING AT ALL. Oh look, the hassle of a TFO taking 2 min longer because somebody doesn't wanna play for the rewards...vs we have FLEETS of people who's sol purpose in this game is to grief people and we gave them a way to do it on ALL maps to EVERYONE know instead of just certain map. Hell most of the new TFOs are time gated so the takes longer doesn't even remotely apply...you just miss out on like 3 marks...oh noes. I'll take the hassle of the AFKers, leechers and the trolls who's only power right now is to say mean things to me over the vote kick system where the trolls now ACTUALLY have power to remove me from the map,
  • cirran1cirran1 Member Posts: 194 Arc User
    So a mod wants to replace an system that is abused with a system that is even easier to abuse. I thought mods were supposed to be neutral in all things? After all if you are going to moderate everyone's behavior in a neutral and fair manner you cant pick sides, ever. I wonder why they have a dog in this fight, and what is their angle? There must be more than meets the eye to their excitement over a vote kick system.

    Cirran
  • daimon97daimon97 Member Posts: 330 Arc User
    cirran1 wrote: »
    So a mod wants to replace an system that is abused with a system that is even easier to abuse. I thought mods were supposed to be neutral in all things? After all if you are going to moderate everyone's behavior in a neutral and fair manner you cant pick sides, ever. I wonder why they have a dog in this fight, and what is their angle? There must be more than meets the eye to their excitement over a vote kick system.

    Cirran

    Probably because there has been a lot of grievers and afkers lately... After all if someone is not any of those one should have no concern in a kick system...
  • captaincelestialcaptaincelestial Member Posts: 1,674 Arc User
    People need to realize, every single system can be abused. There is no such thing as an abuse proof system. Folks already abuse the ability to AFK right now and still collect rewards. That hampers the other 4 players with no means of remedy for them. That is an even greater abuse than someone being booted from a run.

    I remember in City of Heroes there were people who would form Task Forces only to kick off the other players so they could solo it and get all the rewards. Of course trying to get a full team together to do a chained multi-mission was hard enough most of the time, so when you have one less person because they up and went solo after kicking you and the others was a pain.
  • foxfire2000foxfire2000 Member Posts: 149 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    how about we give this thread the grav well 3 treatment?

    With electrical damage. :p

  • daimon97daimon97 Member Posts: 330 Arc User
    edited December 2020
    People need to realize, every single system can be abused. There is no such thing as an abuse proof system. Folks already abuse the ability to AFK right now and still collect rewards. That hampers the other 4 players with no means of remedy for them. That is an even greater abuse than someone being booted from a run.

    I remember in City of Heroes there were people who would form Task Forces only to kick off the other players so they could solo it and get all the rewards. Of course trying to get a full team together to do a chained multi-mission was hard enough most of the time, so when you have one less person because they up and went solo after kicking you and the others was a pain.

    But that cannot happen in STO since you dont get more rewards when you finish a TFO with less people... There are no super rare epic loot drops to compete as well. What you get from TFO's you can easily get from patrols etc
  • seaofsorrowsseaofsorrows Member Posts: 9,923 Arc User
    cirran1 wrote: »
    So a mod wants to replace an system that is abused with a system that is even easier to abuse. I thought mods were supposed to be neutral in all things? After all if you are going to moderate everyone's behavior in a neutral and fair manner you cant pick sides, ever. I wonder why they have a dog in this fight, and what is their angle? There must be more than meets the eye to their excitement over a vote kick system.

    Cirran

    The forum mods are volunteer mods who are players of the game just like you or I. Why should being a forum moderator mean they can’t have an opinion? that makes no sense at all. He’s posting his opinion, just like everyone else in this discussion.

    If he’s not using his moderator power to push his agenda, there is no problem. He’s clearly not doing anything like that, he’s not deleting posts of anyone that disagrees or getting in a last word and then locking the thread. Moderators are allowed to have and discuss opinions just like everyone else on the board. The are under no obligation to stay neutral on any issue, not sure where you’re getting that from, but it’s incorrect.

    I don’t agree with him, but he’s done absolutely nothing wrong.
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  • nikephorusnikephorus Member Posts: 2,714 Arc User
    I used to play Diablo III quite a bit and there is a kick function in that game that you can use when teamed up with other players. I don't remember seeing that system abused more then a couple times during all the years I played.
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  • altran3301altran3301 Member Posts: 163 Arc User
    daimon97 wrote: »
    I would have to say no to a kick feature due to how easily it would be abused.

    With all due respect a player staying at a single place throughout the TFO and not doing anything but still getting the reward is more abusive and unfair...

    Another player doing nothing at all, is in no way "abusive". It doesn't prevent you playing the game, or getting your reward.
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  • daimon97daimon97 Member Posts: 330 Arc User
    altran3301 wrote: »
    daimon97 wrote: »
    I would have to say no to a kick feature due to how easily it would be abused.

    With all due respect a player staying at a single place throughout the TFO and not doing anything but still getting the reward is more abusive and unfair...

    Another player doing nothing at all, is in no way "abusive". It doesn't prevent you playing the game, or getting your reward.

    Poor performance in a TFO affects rewards... there is no reason to reward lazy behaviour...or unearned
  • keepcalmchiveonkeepcalmchiveon Member Posts: 1,810 Arc User
    altran3301 wrote: »
    daimon97 wrote: »
    I would have to say no to a kick feature due to how easily it would be abused.

    With all due respect a player staying at a single place throughout the TFO and not doing anything but still getting the reward is more abusive and unfair...

    Another player doing nothing at all, is in no way "abusive". It doesn't prevent you playing the game, or getting your reward.

    funny...in a game people dont seem to mind that someone can reap rewards for not partaking in the tfo etc...(more so in STO since the rewards are not game changers)

    but if this was real life, and someone was sitting in the corner while everyone else worked, yall would be pissed off.

    the correlations and dualities in this thread are laughable at times.

    have we all at some point been victim of an afk player? yup. would some of us like to kick that person to the curb? yup. does it become the end all be all in a game? nope. does it ruin my game play or hinder my progress? no really. does it TRIBBLE me off at times? sure. does it NOT TRIBBLE me of at times? yup.

    no matter what system, if even incorporated into this game at this point, people will come here and make comments as we all have before - both for and against. there will never be that ONE great system that works for everyone - ever.

    what we have is working for those that sit there and those that dont. would i like a system that would make best attempts at hindering afk while in tfos? yes. but given the replies and stances, no matter what is done, it will never be enough.


    i have no idea why i typed all this, but oh well. yall have a good day! :)
    meh

  • foxrockssocksfoxrockssocks Member Posts: 2,075 Arc User
    Some deviant builds are pretty easy to spot without parsing. Its actually pretty easy to see when someone mixes cannons and beams. I do that on a few ships, either to leverage the NX trait for using scatter volley before every BO (Yes its not necessary to have cannons, but I do it anyway,) or more commonly to use the 2 piece bonus via the turret and a console from the Counter Command set on a dual beam bank ship that still has rear slots to fill. That is a build nono though, even though it works out well.

    Fortunately I rarely run into the jerks that would say something about it without any thought. The real question is whether it is worth "punishing" me for running into those elitists with a vote kick system.

    Maybe some of you understand Blackstone's Formulation, the legal principle that 10 guilty should go free before 1 innocent suffers. That is something that must be kept in mind here. How would you feel when you run through a STF to the end only to get kicked out at the final boss? Is that going to happen frequently? No, but it will happen to someone simply because it can. Is that worth the ability to kick AFKers when they are immaterial to most queues? AFKers are not more than an annoyance.

    I say no, it isn't worth it, not because it will be abused often, but because it will be abused once.
  • coldnapalmcoldnapalm Member Posts: 9,145 Arc User
    daimon97 wrote: »
    altran3301 wrote: »
    daimon97 wrote: »
    I would have to say no to a kick feature due to how easily it would be abused.

    With all due respect a player staying at a single place throughout the TFO and not doing anything but still getting the reward is more abusive and unfair...

    Another player doing nothing at all, is in no way "abusive". It doesn't prevent you playing the game, or getting your reward.

    Poor performance in a TFO affects rewards... there is no reason to reward lazy behaviour...or unearned

    Oh noes 3 extra marks...what ever shall you do. Performance makes so little difference in this game, your argument would need for them to entirely overhaul the queues before it makes even one iota of sense.

    As for lazy behaviour...did you take any of the extra income for unemployment? Because as an essential worker, I did not. In fact me working to keep people in hospitals fed is paying for that. Hell min. wage workers at the fast food joints are paying for that. The baggers at the grocery store who can't even afford to feed their family are paying for that. You think that is fair? If you are gonna rage about how things being fair, a stupidly MINOR issue like somebody going AFK in a game should be rather low on the list of things to complain about in this day and age. Hell I personally know people who REFUSED to go back to essential jobs for that extra cash...and we as a society seem okay with that...but heaven forbid that somebody AFK in a game and get some silly little in game reward for it.
  • crypticarmsmancrypticarmsman Member Posts: 3,660 Arc User
    I would have to say no to a kick feature due to how easily it would be abused.

    Agree, sadly it would be abused for sure. I don't think anyone "likes" AFKers when not already pre-agreed upon.

    A long time ago I was told that if you place a player on your Ignore-list then they won't be grouped with you, this was told to me by customer service once when I lodged a complaint during an event TFO, so naive. It turns-out that's not true or there is a bug in their system because even though I followed the instructions I still got to witness his/her AFKing during an event days later again, so there is that unfortunately.

    If you're on a team made by someone BEFORE you queue - no anyone on yours (or others) ignore list can't be invited/join said pre-made team. As far as the auto queue TFO joining system, no that ignores yours (and others) ignore lists.
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  • rattler2rattler2 Member Posts: 52,770 Community Moderator
    darkblade... normally I don't argue with mods, but the hat isn't on right now. We're all equal right now.
    You're taking what I'm saying a bit more on the practical side. I'm leaning a bit more towards the ego side of some who are obsessed with their epeen performance. We actually had an incident here on the forums where someone got directed to a build guide over their build... and it was acutally the guy who WROTE said guide who got pointed to it!

    On top of that... people WILL assume your build is terrible and will attack over it if so inclined if your "numbers" don't line up with some self percieved level requirement. Therein lies a problem because it could be that its NOT the build, but the player. But that doesn't matter to some people, its "get gud or gtfo". Someone might even just see Tetryon beams and assume they suck because its not the uber damage dealing metabuild of the week.

    I'm not calling out the practicality of it. I'm calling out the Human side of it.

    Like I said, we do need SOMETHING to deal with AFKers and toxic players in TFO runs. But at the same time we need to find a way to keep said system from being abused by elitists who get so bent out of shape if someone "drags their numbers down" in Infected. Because I hate to say it, but there are people in game who do that to varying degrees. And they don't care about your build other than the fact it is "obviously garbage" because you're not performing to their perceived level. Doesn't matter if you're a veteran or a rookie, you get the lash for insulting your superior by not performing as well or not using a "proper", by their definition, build. Anything that reduces their numbers is an insult. That could be you not having an optimized build, or it could be you having a megawell build that pulls things away from them while they're trying to alpha strike.

    Its not all gear. Its ego.
    I'm not totally against having a vote kick. I'm just seeing how it can be abused in the current environment.
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