Apply a region trigger in the map that overrides player speed stat values and caps max sped at the max speed of the slowest participant. This will put all racers on equal footing.
really? why not just give everyone a participation trophy?
How about because I believe that a competition needs to put everyone on equal footing, with no unfair advantages
Everyone starts equal. We all began from zero. Rewards are gained by working for them. What I'm hearing in this thread is the whinging of people who want things for free, because they CBA to work for them.
Apply a region trigger in the map that overrides player speed stat values and caps max sped at the max speed of the slowest participant. This will put all racers on equal footing.
really? why not just give everyone a participation trophy?
How about because I believe that a competition needs to put everyone on equal footing, with no unfair advantages
Everyone starts equal. We all began from zero. Rewards are gained by working for them. What I'm hearing in this thread is the whinging of people who want things for free, because they CBA to work for them.
Tell me, how a non Jem Hadar could use the bonus of white?
Make a new non Jem Character and make a race.
Apply a region trigger in the map that overrides player speed stat values and caps max sped at the max speed of the slowest participant. This will put all racers on equal footing.
really? why not just give everyone a participation trophy?
How about because I believe that a competition needs to put everyone on equal footing, with no unfair advantages
Everyone starts equal. We all began from zero. Rewards are gained by working for them. What I'm hearing in this thread is the whinging of people who want things for free, because they CBA to work for them.
Tell me, how a non Jem Hadar could use the bonus of white?
Make a new non Jem Character and make a race.
Apply a region trigger in the map that overrides player speed stat values and caps max sped at the max speed of the slowest participant. This will put all racers on equal footing.
really? why not just give everyone a participation trophy?
How about because I believe that a competition needs to put everyone on equal footing, with no unfair advantages
Everyone starts equal. We all began from zero. Rewards are gained by working for them. What I'm hearing in this thread is the whinging of people who want things for free, because they CBA to work for them.
Tell me, how a non Jem Hadar could use the bonus of white?
Make a new non Jem Character and make a race.
-40% All Damage for 1 min
-40% Maximum Hit Points for 1 min
Reduced movement speed for 10 sec
Consumed by Jem'Hadar:
+10% All Damage for 5 min
+20% Max Hit Points for 5 min
+25% Increased Run Speed for 5 min
Empowers Shroud for 3 Hours of Game-Time
Q's Winter Wonderland is accessible to all captains that have completed their tutorial and selected an allegiance.
Therefore all level should have a chance to win. In the first years it was a equal competition.
This program, though reasonably normal at times, seems to have a strong affinity to classes belonging to the Cat 2.0 program. Questerius 2.7 will break down on occasion, resulting in garbage and nonsense messages whenever it occurs. Usually a hard reboot or pulling the plug solves the problem when that happens.
And I must admit: Caitians have an unfair advantage too.
While chasing the Krampiri (or whatever), I can get to it before other players too because I can just jump over their heads. And I'm not using any other speed boosting gear on my Caitian toons.
Apparently that increased jump heigth also translates into a slightly higher speed if you keep jumping.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
There are all sorts of things we can do to boost all non Jem'Hadar character's run speed, with gear, traits & so on, work on figuring out what those are & working through trial & error & advice from more experienced players to attain these things for our characters, that's part of the game BTW, so that the next time this event rolls around we can be ready to do better. That would seem to be the logical & fair thing to do if we want to create competition rather than taking a narcissistic approach that demands everyone else have what THEY worked for taken from them to appease those that haven't.
What seems to have escaped the notice of many people here is that REAL life, the NATURE of the universe itself, is anything but fair, THAT that is a natural fact, take this a life lesson in that subject, & learn to overcome it on our own merits. JMHO
Be well & live long & prosper.🖖
And I must admit: Caitians have an unfair advantage too.
While chasing the Krampiri (or whatever), I can get to it before other players too because I can just jump over their heads. And I'm not using any other speed boosting gear on my Caitian toons.
Apparently that increased jump heigth also translates into a slightly higher speed if you keep jumping.
I don't have a Caitian nor Ferasan but remember they almost being the apex character templates to perform this race years & years ago.
The cat-characters cost zen to unlock, a Jem'Hadar-basic is free which should be noted as well.
There are all sorts of things we can do to boost all non Jem'Hadar character's run speed, with gear, traits & so on, work on figuring out what those are & working through trial & error & advice from more experienced players to attain these things for our characters, that's part of the game BTW, so that the next time this event rolls around we can be ready to do better. That would seem to be the logical & fair thing to do if we want to create competition rather than taking a narcissistic approach that demands everyone else have what THEY worked for taken from them to appease those that haven't.
What seems to have escaped the notice of many people here is that REAL life, the NATURE of the universe itself, is anything but fair, THAT that is a natural fact, take this a life lesson in that subject, & learn to overcome it on our own merits. JMHO
Be well & live long & prosper.🖖
This is not real life. This is an online game and there must be equal grounds for the sake of balance
There are all sorts of things we can do to boost all non Jem'Hadar character's run speed, with gear, traits & so on, work on figuring out what those are & working through trial & error & advice from more experienced players to attain these things for our characters, that's part of the game BTW, so that the next time this event rolls around we can be ready to do better. That would seem to be the logical & fair thing to do if we want to create competition rather than taking a narcissistic approach that demands everyone else have what THEY worked for taken from them to appease those that haven't.
What seems to have escaped the notice of many people here is that REAL life, the NATURE of the universe itself, is anything but fair, THAT that is a natural fact, take this a life lesson in that subject, & learn to overcome it on our own merits. JMHO
Be well & live long & prosper.🖖
In previous years, lots of things that could boost run speed were disabled. That was the idea, that players shouldn't get an unfair advantage over others. Skill was supposed to matter, as it should in any race.
As with so many things in this game, the event simply hasn't kept up with all sorts of other boosts that can now be obtained but couldn't when they designed the race. That doesn't mean that this is intended or how it's supposed to work.
Besides this historical argument, what you call a 'narcissistic approach' is anything but that. Rules exist in any kind of competition, precisely because it wouldn't be a competition anymore if it came down to just using the right stuff. It thus doesn't have anything to do with natural facts or whatever either.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
There are all sorts of things we can do to boost all non Jem'Hadar character's run speed, with gear, traits & so on, work on figuring out what those are & working through trial & error & advice from more experienced players to attain these things for our characters, that's part of the game BTW, so that the next time this event rolls around we can be ready to do better. That would seem to be the logical & fair thing to do if we want to create competition rather than taking a narcissistic approach that demands everyone else have what THEY worked for taken from them to appease those that haven't.
What seems to have escaped the notice of many people here is that REAL life, the NATURE of the universe itself, is anything but fair, THAT that is a natural fact, take this a life lesson in that subject, & learn to overcome it on our own merits. JMHO
Be well & live long & prosper.🖖
This is not real life. This is an online game and there must be equal grounds for the sake of balance
While I totally agree with you, I wouldn't expect most people around here to understand that.
This is a game where people think that grinding for an item is an accomplishment. A game that revolves around stacking tons of buffs and hitting spacebar. Daily grind tasks are described as endeavours.
Skill or content that requires it, is generally not appreciated.
STO really isn't a game for gamers.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
Apply a region trigger in the map that overrides player speed stat values and caps max sped at the max speed of the slowest participant. This will put all racers on equal footing.
really? why not just give everyone a participation trophy?
How about because I believe that a competition needs to put everyone on equal footing, with no unfair advantages
If what you are calling "unfair advantages" are the items & abilities providing run-boosts do you realize they're in-game & all of them can be earned by all?
The winter event is open to all, correct?
But not all have done everything needed to earn everything, even if it is available to all to earn.
How is a new player, who has barely gotten their journey under way expected to fairly compete in the race if others can beat them because their stats are boosted by things they have because they have been in the game longer.
This is the real problem with games that are centered around the acquisition of loot and gear. There is always going to be someone on the increasingly massively short end of the stick, and the longer the game runs, the wider the gulf. There's already an elitist mentality that leads to players being kicked to the curb because their DPS isn't high enough, even though there have been constand complaints about how hard it is to get a group together.
All these stat boosts that come from gear grind are actually getting in the way of people just playing together. And now it's getting to the point where what should be just a fun yearly event feels unfair because people with boosted stats from whatever source have a more favorable chance of winning. I'm sure that the disadvantaged players would be using those stat boosters if they had them. But they don't because they have not earned them yet. If the winter event is supposed to be open to all, then any competitive element in it needs to be equal to all. If you are opposed to that notion then you are in favor of inequality and unfair/unbiased treatment of all who play, regardless of what point they are in along the advancement path.
Well said.
Players also shouldn't have to get so much gear and other boosters to even have a chance at winning such a minor thing in an event that's up for only a few weeks each year.
It's ridiculous and it's probably also one of the reasons - besides the ones you mentioned - why speed boosters were originally disabled in this race, years ago.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
The unearned entitlement here is just staggering. "Nerf everyone else because I'm new".
I am running a new toon through the winter events this year. Aside from the frosted boots, and the +2% sprint speed I get from my endeavor leveling, this toon has had to earn everything for himself. He started on the same playing field everyone else does. He does not have all the gear yet. But he still has only placed less than 2nd once, and he does 1 race per day.
If I can run a brand new toon through it all and succeed, then so can you.
If they want a level playing field, then they can put in the same work that I have put in.
We are talking about something that should be just friendly competition during the winte event whic is open to all regardless of where they are at in progression metrics... If this were [art of an actual gameplay loop, I would not have even bothered posting.
However... after a little thought I have concluded that the race needs to alternate between modded and unmodded participants. Prizes would be the same for both, and both would allow anyone to race, but one would be with stat mods enabled, the other with them disabled.
I really hope the devs ignore you completely.
And these claims that speed bonuses were canceled in prior years is utter hogwash. That has never happened.
I really hope the devs ignore you completely.
And these claims that speed bonuses were canceled in prior years is utter hogwash. That has never happened.
Thats right. The speed boosts where never disabled. But in the first years there where no speed boosts except boots useable.
The unearned entitlement here is just staggering. "Nerf everyone else because I'm new".
I am running a new toon through the winter events this year. Aside from the frosted boots, and the +2% sprint speed I get from my endeavor leveling, this toon has had to earn everything for himself. He started on the same playing field everyone else does. He does not have all the gear yet. But he still has only placed less than 2nd once, and he does 1 race per day.
If I can run a brand new toon through it all and succeed, then so can you.
And how often did you get first or second against 5+?
Yesterday I raced against a snow man. This would be a solution.
> And how often did you get first or second against 5+?
Probably 1/3 of the races that toon has done, because I am smart enough to find another instance.
And this counts as skill. Would you like an explanation of how to change instances, skk?
There is in fact a lot of skill involved in the F&F race. Getting through the corners is 100% skill; no equipment or trait or anything helps you there. But it's a matter of practice. When you've run this race 150+ times over the course of 9 years, as I have, you learn a little about how to manage the corners.
But if course those that want everything for free don't want to hear about practice, or persistence, or patience.
> @chastity1337 said: > And this counts as skill. Would you like an explanation of how to change instances, skk? > > There is in fact a lot of skill involved in the F&F race. Getting through the corners is 100% skill; no equipment or trait or anything helps you there. But it's a matter of practice. When you've run this race 150+ times over the course of 9 years, as I have, you learn a little about how to manage the corners. > > But if course those that want everything for free don't want to hear about practice, or persistence, or patience.
I really hope the devs ignore you completely.
And these claims that speed bonuses were canceled in prior years is utter hogwash. That has never happened.
Thats right. The speed boosts where never disabled. But in the first years there where no speed boosts except boots useable.
The unearned entitlement here is just staggering. "Nerf everyone else because I'm new".
I am running a new toon through the winter events this year. Aside from the frosted boots, and the +2% sprint speed I get from my endeavor leveling, this toon has had to earn everything for himself. He started on the same playing field everyone else does. He does not have all the gear yet. But he still has only placed less than 2nd once, and he does 1 race per day.
If I can run a brand new toon through it all and succeed, then so can you.
And how often did you get first or second against 5+?
Yesterday I raced against a snow man. This would be a solution.
The species for the race is random.
Everybody gets polymorph in the same species.
Every Species has its own characteristics.
Actually, the other boosts that were available were disabled years ago and still are.
Or have people suddenly forgotten that motion accelerator exists?
Obviously, the Devs always intended there to be a level playing field or they'd just have accepted that players could activate all sorts of boosts. There's a reason why almost nothing can be activated while on the event map.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
> And how often did you get first or second against 5+?
Probably 1/3 of the races that toon has done, because I am smart enough to find another instance.
And this counts as skill. Would you like an explanation of how to change instances, skk?
There is in fact a lot of skill involved in the F&F race. Getting through the corners is 100% skill; no equipment or trait or anything helps you there. But it's a matter of practice. When you've run this race 150+ times over the course of 9 years, as I have, you learn a little about how to manage the corners.
But if course those that want everything for free don't want to hear about practice, or persistence, or patience.
Why do people keep saying that corners are a problem?
If you'd jump the entire race, you wouldn't have to worry about the slippery track and the corners at all. And this is why speed boosts are unfair: because everyone can jump, but not everyone can jump as fast as everyone else. Nor will they ever be able to do so if they're not Jem'Hadar or Caitians for example.
Even if it were true that taking those corners required any sort of skill, it doesn't have any relevance in the discussion about the advantages players can get from speed boosts. Everyone needs to take those corners, but on the straight parts of the track you still get an advantage with all sorts of speed boosts.
When you have two equally skilled players, the one without the speed boosts is always going to lose to the player with those boosts. It's that simple because the track is the same for both players so the existence of those corners is not relevant at all.
To argue otherwise is like saying that it's not relevant that one participant in a race is driving a car while another one is walking, just because there are some corners in the track that both the car and the pedestrian can take just as easily. It makes no sense whatsoever and it does not in any way refute the claim that the participant in the car benefits from its ability to achieve higher speeds.
[4:46] [Combat {self}] Your Haymaker deals 23337 (9049) Physical Damage(Critical) to Spawnmother
> And how often did you get first or second against 5+?
Probably 1/3 of the races that toon has done, because I am smart enough to find another instance.
And this counts as skill. Would you like an explanation of how to change instances, skk?
There is in fact a lot of skill involved in the F&F race. Getting through the corners is 100% skill; no equipment or trait or anything helps you there. But it's a matter of practice. When you've run this race 150+ times over the course of 9 years, as I have, you learn a little about how to manage the corners.
But if course those that want everything for free don't want to hear about practice, or persistence, or patience.
Why do people keep saying that corners are a problem?
If you'd jump the entire race, you wouldn't have to worry about the slippery track and the corners at all. And this is why speed boosts are unfair: because everyone can jump, but not everyone can jump as fast as everyone else. Nor will they ever be able to do so if they're not Jem'Hadar or Caitians for example.
Even if it were true that taking those corners required any sort of skill, it doesn't have any relevance in the discussion about the advantages players can get from speed boosts. Everyone needs to take those corners, but on the straight parts of the track you still get an advantage with all sorts of speed boosts.
When you have two equally skilled players, the one without the speed boosts is always going to lose to the player with those boosts. It's that simple because the track is the same for both players so the existence of those corners is not relevant at all.
To argue otherwise is like saying that it's not relevant that one participant in a race is driving a car while another one is walking, just because there are some corners in the track that both the car and the pedestrian can take just as easily. It makes no sense whatsoever and it does not in any way refute the claim that the participant in the car benefits from its ability to achieve higher speeds.
I'm not JH or Caitian or Ferasan, and I don't BH. Lord, I despise bunnyhoppers.
So, how long you going to keep beating this dead horse? Are you not getting your daily fix of self-righteous outrage on Twitter?
Sooner or later, you are going to realize that this "cancel culture" nonsense doesn't fly in STO, I'm sure...
Comments
Everyone starts equal. We all began from zero. Rewards are gained by working for them. What I'm hearing in this thread is the whinging of people who want things for free, because they CBA to work for them.
Tell me, how a non Jem Hadar could use the bonus of white?
Make a new non Jem Character and make a race.
doesnt ketracel boosts all races?
Someone already answered that one:
It's true that all players can get all this stuff. But I assume a lot of people want to do the race on newer toons too to get the accolade.
And you can't expect newer players or characters to have the Command tree filled, the Discovery reputation completed and to... be Jem'Hadar.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
While chasing the Krampiri (or whatever), I can get to it before other players too because I can just jump over their heads. And I'm not using any other speed boosting gear on my Caitian toons.
Apparently that increased jump heigth also translates into a slightly higher speed if you keep jumping.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
What seems to have escaped the notice of many people here is that REAL life, the NATURE of the universe itself, is anything but fair, THAT that is a natural fact, take this a life lesson in that subject, & learn to overcome it on our own merits. JMHO
Be well & live long & prosper.🖖
I don't have a Caitian nor Ferasan but remember they almost being the apex character templates to perform this race years & years ago.
The cat-characters cost zen to unlock, a Jem'Hadar-basic is free which should be noted as well.
This is not real life. This is an online game and there must be equal grounds for the sake of balance
In previous years, lots of things that could boost run speed were disabled. That was the idea, that players shouldn't get an unfair advantage over others. Skill was supposed to matter, as it should in any race.
As with so many things in this game, the event simply hasn't kept up with all sorts of other boosts that can now be obtained but couldn't when they designed the race. That doesn't mean that this is intended or how it's supposed to work.
Besides this historical argument, what you call a 'narcissistic approach' is anything but that. Rules exist in any kind of competition, precisely because it wouldn't be a competition anymore if it came down to just using the right stuff. It thus doesn't have anything to do with natural facts or whatever either.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
While I totally agree with you, I wouldn't expect most people around here to understand that.
This is a game where people think that grinding for an item is an accomplishment. A game that revolves around stacking tons of buffs and hitting spacebar. Daily grind tasks are described as endeavours.
Skill or content that requires it, is generally not appreciated.
STO really isn't a game for gamers.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Yeah, that's real fair.
Talk about a sense of unearned entitlement.
Well said.
Players also shouldn't have to get so much gear and other boosters to even have a chance at winning such a minor thing in an event that's up for only a few weeks each year.
It's ridiculous and it's probably also one of the reasons - besides the ones you mentioned - why speed boosters were originally disabled in this race, years ago.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
I am running a new toon through the winter events this year. Aside from the frosted boots, and the +2% sprint speed I get from my endeavor leveling, this toon has had to earn everything for himself. He started on the same playing field everyone else does. He does not have all the gear yet. But he still has only placed less than 2nd once, and he does 1 race per day.
If I can run a brand new toon through it all and succeed, then so can you.
I really hope the devs ignore you completely.
And these claims that speed bonuses were canceled in prior years is utter hogwash. That has never happened.
Thats right. The speed boosts where never disabled. But in the first years there where no speed boosts except boots useable.
And how often did you get first or second against 5+?
Yesterday I raced against a snow man. This would be a solution.
> And how often did you get first or second against 5+?
Probably 1/3 of the races that toon has done, because I am smart enough to find another instance.
And this counts as skill. Would you like an explanation of how to change instances, skk?
There is in fact a lot of skill involved in the F&F race. Getting through the corners is 100% skill; no equipment or trait or anything helps you there. But it's a matter of practice. When you've run this race 150+ times over the course of 9 years, as I have, you learn a little about how to manage the corners.
But if course those that want everything for free don't want to hear about practice, or persistence, or patience.
> And this counts as skill. Would you like an explanation of how to change instances, skk?
>
> There is in fact a lot of skill involved in the F&F race. Getting through the corners is 100% skill; no equipment or trait or anything helps you there. But it's a matter of practice. When you've run this race 150+ times over the course of 9 years, as I have, you learn a little about how to manage the corners.
>
> But if course those that want everything for free don't want to hear about practice, or persistence, or patience.
This. So much this.
Actually, the other boosts that were available were disabled years ago and still are.
Or have people suddenly forgotten that motion accelerator exists?
Obviously, the Devs always intended there to be a level playing field or they'd just have accepted that players could activate all sorts of boosts. There's a reason why almost nothing can be activated while on the event map.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
Why do people keep saying that corners are a problem?
If you'd jump the entire race, you wouldn't have to worry about the slippery track and the corners at all. And this is why speed boosts are unfair: because everyone can jump, but not everyone can jump as fast as everyone else. Nor will they ever be able to do so if they're not Jem'Hadar or Caitians for example.
Even if it were true that taking those corners required any sort of skill, it doesn't have any relevance in the discussion about the advantages players can get from speed boosts. Everyone needs to take those corners, but on the straight parts of the track you still get an advantage with all sorts of speed boosts.
When you have two equally skilled players, the one without the speed boosts is always going to lose to the player with those boosts. It's that simple because the track is the same for both players so the existence of those corners is not relevant at all.
To argue otherwise is like saying that it's not relevant that one participant in a race is driving a car while another one is walking, just because there are some corners in the track that both the car and the pedestrian can take just as easily. It makes no sense whatsoever and it does not in any way refute the claim that the participant in the car benefits from its ability to achieve higher speeds.
[3/25 10:41][Combat (Self)]Your Haymaker deals 26187 (10692) Physical Damage(Critical) to Orinoco.
I'm not JH or Caitian or Ferasan, and I don't BH. Lord, I despise bunnyhoppers.
So, how long you going to keep beating this dead horse? Are you not getting your daily fix of self-righteous outrage on Twitter?
Sooner or later, you are going to realize that this "cancel culture" nonsense doesn't fly in STO, I'm sure...