So, ive made a significant investment on my science officer (600 USD overall) and am now regretting it. I have all advanced content on farm/faceroll status. And as I turn my attention to elite content I just cant top tac DPS. I do very well for a non-tac spacewizard but I feel as I dont have a place in a elite setting. Eng heals/tanks better. Tac DPS. Sci does..........? Debuffing? Co-opt energy weapons is nice one every 2-3 minutes and perhaps sub-nucleonic on a boss but apart from that and sensor scan the class just doesnt have a purpose. Why drop a Tac for Sci? Am I missing something here?
I guess my question is three-fold. The first part was above. The second is if there are any sci captains doing elite TFO (space) and not being carried? If so, what is your team roll? And the last question can Sci caps expect any love at this stage of the game (doubtful)? Because overall, when its said and done..there is a reason sci is the lowest played class in the game. I guess there isnt much hope for a fix.
Anyways, sorry for being a negative nancy. Just curious if i should abandon ship for a tac before I invest any more USD.
In terms of just pure captain powers, you won't outdo a tactical captain as tac captains have alot of innate ways to boost crit chance and severity the other captains simply don't have. Now with that said, for science you can actually do insane numbers depending on what you want to do build wise. tac captains have an edge in terms of ways to boost raw damage yes, but that doesn't mean the other career types are less valid. Science builds are great at controlling the battlefield and doing a ton of damage that can bypass shields. before you jump ship, I would advise taking out a science ship and setting up a sci build. doesn't have to be uber high end, but just enough to get the job done. EPG science is nasty when done right. If you still feel the "bleh" after you try the EPG build, then for what you're wanting to do it might be beneficial to switch to tac. From what I'm seeing here however, I would submit you simply haven't found the build you like for your science just yet.
"Someone once told me that time was a predator that stalked us all our lives. I rather believe that time is a companion who goes with us on the journey and reminds us to cherish every moment, because it will never come again." - Jean Luc Picard in Star Trek Generations
Agreed... I have a Sci Captain with a mediocre EPG (exotic particle generators) build. My EPG is 400, but I am still figuring out how to boost me Control as well... I ran a quick ISA and parsed about 80k dps... Now, there are Tac captains that double that easily, but my mediocre sci captain is one of my highest dps characters, and I play it quite often...
"Equipped with his five senses, man explores the universe around him and calls the adventure science." - Edwin Hubble
Thanks for the Reply both of you. I do put out really good DPS (140k) space in my daemosh. If and when I get a verne I think i can probably push that a bit higher. I can solo all content except for tfo's. This includes elite patrols. Its just now that Im gearing up for elite TFO's and im watching players post 500k weapon Tac captains and im wonder why would any group include a sci captain in a elite run.
I have read the above post from darkbladejk and it gives me some hope. I do have fun with science. I prefer it to my other two (tac and eng) and why I have focused so much money and effort on it. I guess I need to find fleets who actively do elite tfo's and ask around. Again, thank you both for the reply,
My first character was a science officer and I kept creating them because Starfleet is supposed to be about science, about finding smart solutions to problems (yeah, I know, we don't get that in this game, but still - I like the idea of a science class).
I would just create characters of species and careers you like, get your favorite ship, optimise it and collect your own crew. And enjoy the game if you've done those things.
Worrying about DPS is unnecessary beyond a certain point, in my opinion. It should definitely not negatively affect the amount of joy you get out of the game - it's just a number in the end.
I play Sci mains on both PC and Xbox and handle Elite fine. Aux power is key, as already mentioned, but if you want great DPS for Science, run in a Science vessel with Deteriorating Secondary Deflector. This adds alot of DPS to a number of power Sci powers such as Tac Beam, Energy Siphon etc. Cycling your Scattering Field with other consoles such as the Red Matter Capacitor and the Dynamic Power Distributor will help keep your damage levels up. There are alot of tricks you can use to weaken NPC's which also improve your DPS.
I also use Reverse Shield Polarity and Hazard Emitters to boost survivability.
I note you say you are hitting 140k, that's far above what you need to do Elite.
"You don't want to patrol!? You don't want to escort!? You don't want to defend the Federation's Starbases!? Then why are you flying my Starships!? If you were a Klingon you'd be killed on the spot, but lucky for you.....you WERE in Starfleet. Let's see how New Zealand Penal Colony suits you." Adm A. Necheyev.
Why in the world are you comparing tacs to scis? Tacs are one trick ponies. If they don't do more damage than everyone else, something is broken. I've also never seen any of the players here that run elites suggest or imply that scis and engies don't have a place in them, so you thinking otherwise is something you need to crumple up into a ball and throw in a trash can.
Parsing ISA is a horrible, horrible tool to understand DPS in this game. Unfortunately it is essentially also the only one. Still, you can't compare your ISA numbers to someone elses ISE numbers. That's not apples to oranges, its apples to bulldozers. Elite functions very differently than advanced because of how much longer enemies live. You also can't look at numbers that don't even involve you because very possibly that was a premade group that all worked to support the tac in pushing absurd numbers. What if you were there, what would their numbers be? Those numbers are always highly dependent on the team, whether they are buffing the numbers of someone else, or competing for them.
Then you have to ask yourself, how would you do with that tac build? You might do better than that other person. You might also do far worse despite running an identical build because you don't know how to use it, how to fly it. You just don't know at all.
Ultimately if you want to do elite, you need to learn them by doing them and figuring out where to improve. You're probably completely ready for elite and have been for a long time.
Sci is my favorite class still, Tac a close second, Eng dead last. I don't do elites but I really doubt career makes any difference there, as it seems to be all about DPS (100K ISA parse minimum) and having a competent team.
Sci in space has AoE shield resistance boosts, Aoe all dmg boosts, AoE debuff, energy damage immunity, subnucleonic, and photonic fleet which help leverage all these on a debuffed target while drawing some aggro away from you. Most of these work off of Aux power.
Tac I enjoy as it allows for a pure build with minimal extraneous buffs other than giving yourself more damage, and works equally well on any ship. Even a Lt Tac on a Sci vessel benefits from Tac boff cooldowns for more frequent exotic torpedo damage.
Engineer I dislike and even gave up on an alt I've worked so long on in favor of a lowly Sci. Eng space powers do very little for science vessels as two of the main powers are concerned with overcap (aux does not benefit as much as weapons), subsystem drain, and just more raw power.
Really, using DPS as a metric is not good. Especially if you run a drain build. A lot of science abilities will not register with the 2 different dps meters. Time would be a better metric. One of my science builds in testing kills all the bad guys in under 20 seconds. Cruiser in the same scenario takes 40 seconds. Both DPS meters show the cruiser has way more dps. It's not the DPS meters fault, they are both very good. The problem is how do you factor in debuffs and the other space magic that actually doesn't do any damage but helps you melt the bad guys twice as fast?
The main issue is that anything the other 2 captains could ever try as damage, the Tac will always do better. Science damage? Tac still does it better. Tanking while dealing enough damage to actually kill your target? Tac does it better.
Tac just has TOO many good damage buffing powers. Science should have more buffs to exotic damage, like their skills should innately increase non weapon damage
Engineers would be in a much better spot if their max level ability (Which actually gives a crazy damage boost), had a range of 10 kms. Right now its like 3 kms its really awful. Some of their older abilities could use a pass over, not for damage boosts, but to make them more effective at tanking because right now they really aren't that much better than the other two classes at tanking.
Honestly the difference isn't that big, atm my max damage character is my AoY sci, while of my max level characters my tac ones are probably the worst ones.
Yet they way some people talk about you'd think it wouldn't be possible for a tac captain to be inferior to a sci captain and that tac char with default whites would easily out-DPS a sci char in all gold mark 15s.
Once more, very good posts. And I thank you all for the input. I as a player want to always do my best. This gives me food for thought. I will stick with my science cap for now. I will also continue to work on my eng and tac alts. I dont need top DPS. I just want to carry my weight. Once more, thanks to everyone for the information!
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I have read the above post from darkbladejk and it gives me some hope. I do have fun with science. I prefer it to my other two (tac and eng) and why I have focused so much money and effort on it. I guess I need to find fleets who actively do elite tfo's and ask around. Again, thank you both for the reply,
I would just create characters of species and careers you like, get your favorite ship, optimise it and collect your own crew. And enjoy the game if you've done those things.
Worrying about DPS is unnecessary beyond a certain point, in my opinion. It should definitely not negatively affect the amount of joy you get out of the game - it's just a number in the end.
I also use Reverse Shield Polarity and Hazard Emitters to boost survivability.
I note you say you are hitting 140k, that's far above what you need to do Elite.
Parsing ISA is a horrible, horrible tool to understand DPS in this game. Unfortunately it is essentially also the only one. Still, you can't compare your ISA numbers to someone elses ISE numbers. That's not apples to oranges, its apples to bulldozers. Elite functions very differently than advanced because of how much longer enemies live. You also can't look at numbers that don't even involve you because very possibly that was a premade group that all worked to support the tac in pushing absurd numbers. What if you were there, what would their numbers be? Those numbers are always highly dependent on the team, whether they are buffing the numbers of someone else, or competing for them.
Then you have to ask yourself, how would you do with that tac build? You might do better than that other person. You might also do far worse despite running an identical build because you don't know how to use it, how to fly it. You just don't know at all.
Ultimately if you want to do elite, you need to learn them by doing them and figuring out where to improve. You're probably completely ready for elite and have been for a long time.
This. I also have more fun with my engi and sci captains.
Sci in space has AoE shield resistance boosts, Aoe all dmg boosts, AoE debuff, energy damage immunity, subnucleonic, and photonic fleet which help leverage all these on a debuffed target while drawing some aggro away from you. Most of these work off of Aux power.
Tac I enjoy as it allows for a pure build with minimal extraneous buffs other than giving yourself more damage, and works equally well on any ship. Even a Lt Tac on a Sci vessel benefits from Tac boff cooldowns for more frequent exotic torpedo damage.
Engineer I dislike and even gave up on an alt I've worked so long on in favor of a lowly Sci. Eng space powers do very little for science vessels as two of the main powers are concerned with overcap (aux does not benefit as much as weapons), subsystem drain, and just more raw power.
Tac just has TOO many good damage buffing powers. Science should have more buffs to exotic damage, like their skills should innately increase non weapon damage
Engineers would be in a much better spot if their max level ability (Which actually gives a crazy damage boost), had a range of 10 kms. Right now its like 3 kms its really awful. Some of their older abilities could use a pass over, not for damage boosts, but to make them more effective at tanking because right now they really aren't that much better than the other two classes at tanking.
Yet they way some people talk about you'd think it wouldn't be possible for a tac captain to be inferior to a sci captain and that tac char with default whites would easily out-DPS a sci char in all gold mark 15s.